View Full Version : Gen4 Glock 17/19 and S&W 2013 M&P9 - Updates needed?
Seems like there has been a lot of debate on the Gen4s and the new M&Ps and what it takes to make them accurate and reliable.
So thought I would try to see if we could hash out what it would take to buy either a Gen4 G17/G19 or a 2013 M&P9 and make the pistol meet the m4carbine approval. Assuming most replace sights anyway I won't go down that road...
Seems like the Glocks are decent shooters and guys do minimal tweaks to the trigger and in sames cases have extractor issues.
So is it safe to say you can have a reliable, accurate G17/G19 for cost of pistol + $60 extractor? + possible connector / spring costs for trigger?
Maybe $80 in total mods? New G4s now come with the beavertail grips and extended mag releases so no need for those upgrades. Correct?
Rumor is the new M&Ps are shooting well so no barrel required. That leaves an Apex DCAEK as the step needed to get the M&P running. $80-$100+ depending on who does install.
So appears that you can buy a G17/G19 with a decent chance of getting a no problem pistol (if extractor problems $80). M&Ps still require the DCAEK mods, so they are purchase price + a needed upgrade.
Based purely on $$$$, Glock is cheaper choice. Any holes in my summary? Other thoughts?
Seems like there has been a lot of debate on the Gen4s and the new M&Ps and what it takes to make them accurate and reliable.
So thought I would try to see if we could hash out what it would take to buy either a Gen4 G17/G19 or a 2013 M&P9 and make the pistol meet the m4carbine approval. Assuming most replace sights anyway I won't go down that road...
Seems like the Glocks are decent shooters and guys do minimal tweaks to the trigger and in sames cases have extractor issues.
So is it safe to say you can have a reliable, accurate G17/G19 for cost of pistol + $60 extractor? + possible connector / spring costs for trigger?
Maybe $80 in total mods? New G4s now come with the beavertail grips and extended mag releases so no need for those upgrades. Correct?
Rumor is the new M&Ps are shooting well so no barrel required. That leaves an Apex DCAEK as the step needed to get the M&P running. $80-$100+ depending on who does install.
So appears that you can buy a G17/G19 with a decent chance of getting a no problem pistol (if extractor problems $80). M&Ps still require the DCAEK mods, so they are purchase price + a needed upgrade.
Based purely on $$$$, Glock is cheaper choice. Any holes in my summary? Other thoughts?
Assuming your a not LE, the GEN 4 Glock is roughly $100 above the cost of an M&P.
The new internals in the M&P are VERY good and with just some polishing can be excellent IMHO.
GEN 4 trigger pulls are 6-6.5LBS. So (for me), I have to add a 3.5 connector. The M&P trigger pull is in the 5-5.5LBS. I can live with this pull weight.
So the Glock will be more money and the there is a solid chance that you will need to add an Apex extractor.
If $100 + is of no concern, then I would say to go with the gun that you like better.
C4
Rumor is the new M&Ps are shooting well so no barrel required.
Where are you getting this information from? I know they changed the twist rate on the barrel and I read Hilton Yam's assessment, but I haven't heard/read much corroboration that it has actually fixed the problem. Yeah, I know there are guys saying/writing that their guns are fine, but aren't there also some saying that they're still having accuracy problems with newer guns they purchased? I could be wrong, so please let me know if that's the case; but, if not, how is that different from before?
s&w m&p mags are about $10's more and good luck finding them
Assuming your a not LE, the GEN 4 Glock is roughly $100 above the cost of an M&P.
The new internals in the M&P are VERY good and with just some polishing can be excellent IMHO.
GEN 4 trigger pulls are 6-6.5LBS. So (for me), I have to add a 3.5 connector. The M&P trigger pull is in the 5-5.5LBS. I can live with this pull weight.
So the Glock will be more money and the there is a solid chance that you will need to add an Apex extractor.
If $100 + is of no concern, then I would say to go with the gun that you like better.
C4
GSSF is another way to get the Glocks pretty cheap. But, from your post it appears both have similar issues at similar costs... The 3.5lb connectors are in the $13-$25 range correct? Any particular one you favor?
Where are you getting this information from? I know they changed the twist rate on the barrel and I read Hilton Yam's assessment, but I haven't heard/read much corroboration that it has actually fixed the problem. Yeah, I know there are guys saying/writing that their guns are fine, but aren't there also some saying that they're still having accuracy problems with newer guns they purchased? I could be wrong, so please let me know if that's the case; but, if not, how is that different from before?
Internet forum posts.. That is why I said rumor. :) If the barrel does not make the M&P shoot, then Glock is one step closer to being the value winner.
Sure wish you could just buy one off shelf, add sights of choice, and add a few minor (i.e. less than $50) "personalizations" and be good to go. DCAEKs and after market extractors are an annoyance...
I have shot a Gen4 17, several Gen3 19s and Gen3 20s, 3 different M&P9s and have no real preference of Glock vs. M&P. Shoot the Glocks more accurately, but the M&Ps were all 2011 vintage or older.
GSSF is another way to get the Glocks pretty cheap.
Ha. Not in Virginia. Two dealers purported to be blue label dealers. One flat out told me they no longer participate and the other has never responded to me. I'm sittin' on two GSSF coupons that are essentially worthless.
Course, it may have something to do with the craziness in the gun business for the last 6 months...
s&w m&p mags are about $10's more and good luck finding them
Another valid point... I have a 9L I am planning to sell and the mags are worth more than the darn pistol!
Ha. Not in Virginia. Two dealers purported to be blue label dealers. One flat out told me they no longer participate and the other has never responded to me. I'm sittin' on two GSSF coupons that are essentially worthless.
Course, it may have something to do with the craziness in the gun business for the last 6 months...
That sucks.. Local shop here said they would honor the coupon, but I am still on an order to come in...
Sure wish you could just buy one off shelf, add sights of choice, and add a few minor (i.e. less than $50) "personalizations" and be good to go. DCAEKs and after market extractors are an annoyance...
You and me both brother and I suspect a lot of others fall in line with this.
Honestly I don't understand this need to stay at the $450.00-$550.00 price point. I'd much prefer to pay $600.00-$700.00 and get a gun that's accurate, durable and reliable. If all I have to do is add night sights; great.
I have shot a Gen4 17, several Gen3 19s and Gen3 20s, 3 different M&P9s and have no real preference of Glock vs. M&P. Shoot the Glocks more accurately, but the M&Ps were all 2011 vintage or older.
I'll be honest, the last M&P 9 I ran was probably three years ago. The accuracy and trigger were horrible and I've shied away from the gun ever since. Also, I find it odd that Storm Lake via G&R is the only place I can get a fitted barrel for one. The Bar sto/APEX barrel seems to be forever in a holding pattern and no Jarvis or anyone else. Very odd for a gun that seems to be popular.
Just a bit off topic, I don't know why, but lately I've really wanted to get a Glock 20. I have no idea what I would do with a 10mm pistol that's the size of a tank, but for some reason, I want one.
Where are you getting this information from? I know they changed the twist rate on the barrel and I read Hilton Yam's assessment, but I haven't heard/read much corroboration that it has actually fixed the problem. Yeah, I know there are guys saying/writing that their guns are fine, but aren't there also some saying that they're still having accuracy problems with newer guns they purchased? I could be wrong, so please let me know if that's the case; but, if not, how is that different from before?
While the twist rate was an issue, it only accounts for about 1" difference in group size (IMHO). The issue is barrel fit to slide. It would appear that this has improved.
It is important when looking at someone with a inaccurate gun to ask these questions:
1. Ammo being used?
2. Are they shooting off a bench?
3. Do they know how to shoot?
4. When was the gun made (not purchased)?
C4
Ha. Not in Virginia. Two dealers purported to be blue label dealers. One flat out told me they no longer participate and the other has never responded to me. I'm sittin' on two GSSF coupons that are essentially worthless.
Course, it may have something to do with the craziness in the gun business for the last 6 months...
I heard people talk about ordering directly from glock, but the wait was several months.
GSSF is another way to get the Glocks pretty cheap. But, from your post it appears both have similar issues at similar costs... The 3.5lb connectors are in the $13-$25 range correct? Any particular one you favor?
GSSF is certainly an option, but the wait might be too long.
I like the Glock 3.5's (if you can find one). If not, I use Ghost (non-adjustable version).
I have shot a Gen4 17, several Gen3 19s and Gen3 20s, 3 different M&P9s and have no real preference of Glock vs. M&P. Shoot the Glocks more accurately, but the M&Ps were all 2011 vintage or older.
If you like both, then buy both. :D
C4
s&w m&p mags are about $10's more and good luck finding them
Typically, Glock mags are $21-$22 and M&P mags are $25.
Finding them (currently) is a problem, but that will change shortly.
C4
While the twist rate was an issue, it only accounts for about 1" difference in group size (IMHO). The issue is barrel fit to slide. It would appear that this has improved.
It is important when looking at someone with a inaccurate gun to ask these questions:
1. Ammo being used?
2. Are they shooting off a bench?
3. Do they know how to shoot?
4. When was the gun made (not purchased)?
C4
Competition is good for all, so I hope they have addressed the problems. Good points on assessing gun versus assessing shooter.
I might be wrong, but since the last run, I would doubt many shops have older guns stock at this point. I'm guessing, but I would think that if anything the manufacturers are way back ordered and almost everything that's bought new from a shop is probably actually new.
GSSF is certainly an option, but the wait might be too long.
I like the Glock 3.5's (if you can find one). If not, I use Ghost (non-adjustable version).
If you like both, then buy both. :D
C4
I am ok with the wait and will probably run both. :) Just wish the out of the box option, ready to go was dialed in by somebody... ;)
Competition is good for all, so I hope they have addressed the problems. Good points on assessing gun versus assessing shooter.
I might be wrong, but since the last run, I would doubt many shops have older guns stock at this point. I'm guessing, but I would think that if anything the manufacturers are way back ordered and almost everything that's bought new from a shop is probably actually new.
The barrel changes is a VERY recent thing (couple months max). So it is entirely possible people are getting guns with older twist rates and such.
C4
I am ok with the wait and will probably run both. :) Just wish the out of the box option, ready to go was dialed in by somebody... ;)
Understand. For me, I put fitted barrels in just about EVERY gun I own. So I think nothing of putting money into a gun to get it exactly how I want it (sights, accuracy, trigger pull weight, etc). Then again, I come from the high end 1911 world so to have $700-$800 in a pistol is NOTHING.
C4
Understand. For me, I put fitted barrels in just about EVERY gun I own. So I think nothing of putting money into a gun to get it exactly how I want it (sights, accuracy, trigger pull weight, etc). Then again, I come from the high end 1911 world so to have $700-$800 in a pistol is NOTHING.
C4
Glocks as well?
Beat Trash
06-12-13, 15:20
My agency is in the process of transitioning from M&P9's that were some of the first 9mms shipped to new M&P9's.
The guns are still being made and shipped, about 300 out of roughly 950, so these are about as new as new can get.
We are NOT seeing an accuracy issue with the new guns and with the new barrels. The triggers are better that the original guns.
I'm also a fan of the Glock 9mm. Especially the Glock 19. The Glocks have had an issue with reliability. Supposedly this has been addressed with guns made within the last few months. The Gen 4+ with the two different types of grip adapters are supposed to be reliable as Glocks of old. But this information on the Glock is coming to me from the Internet. I have no first hand knowledge of any agency that have brought in 9mm Glocks of recent manufacture.
It's kind of hard to go off of a sample of one gun to determine if there is a pattern of an issue.
I'd love to buy a new Gen4 Glock 19. But I won't spend my money on one until I know it's not going to be a gamble as to whether it'll have issues or not.
Assuming both guns were reliable, it really comes down to personal preference.
Glocks as well?
Most certainly!
C4
KentuckyWindage
06-12-13, 16:32
s&w m&p mags are about $10's more and good luck finding them
I haven't seen m&p mags since last year. Yet all my local dealers have glock mags galore.
Glocks as well?
I would disagree. Unless you're shooting 2-3" groups at 25 or 90-95+ cold on a B8, I doubt you'll see much effect from fitting a glock barrel that couldn't be better invested in more practice ammo. If we're talking gen 4's, then this becomes even more of a moot point as the factory gen 4 glock lock-up is already pretty awesome.
Basically, factory glock barrels are good to go, M&P barrels may be good to go, or they may print like a buckshot beyond 15 yards.
I would disagree. Unless you're shooting 2-3" groups at 25 or 90-95+ cold on a B8, I doubt you'll see much effect from fitting a glock barrel that couldn't be better invested in more practice ammo. If we're talking gen 4's, then this becomes even more of a moot point as the factory gen 4 glock lock-up is already pretty awesome.
Basically, factory glock barrels are good to go, M&P barrels may be good to go, or they may print like a buckshot beyond 15 yards.
I would tend to agree. For the most part, factory Glock barrels WILL meet people accuracy standards or needs. As one grows as a shooter, a fitted barrel becomes more of interest.
C4
... That leaves an Apex DCAEK as the step needed to get the M&P running. ...
I didn't see anyone else mention this. The trigger is the LAST thing I would upgrade on a M&P (an sde or whatever the new sigmas are, Is a different story) I'd get sights and a shit ton of ammo first. Is it accurate, reliable? can you track the target?
Why do manufactures angle the front sight so it whites out on a sunny day? I have a white dot and a light gray sight on a light target I cannot shoot fast/well like that. Serrate and angle it like the rear sight!!!/rant
Point is, they run fine without the DCAEK. It doesn't jam like some new glocks do. As for the barrel thing - I have no clue, my m&p is a .40 till I get a SL conversion bbl.
I would tend to agree. For the most part, factory Glock barrels WILL meet people accuracy standards or needs. As one grows as a shooter, a fitted barrel becomes more of interest.
C4
Mr. Grant could you in lighten me on what aftermarket fitted barrel you fancy for glock (storm lake?)
And how drastic would the groups of the standard barrel vs a fitted barbell be when bench zeroing?
Thanks
I have carried both Glock and M&P--I strongly prefer the M&P. Current M&P9's I've shot are as accurate as recent 9 mm Glocks I've used. The new M&P triggers work well and smooth out nicely over 1000 rounds or so. The sights on the M&P work much better for me than the cheesy Glock factory sights. Just like when I sold almost all the 1911's I previously relied on, I am now getting ready to part with Glocks, in favor of the M&P's I am now using.
Mr. Grant could you in lighten me on what aftermarket fitted barrel you fancy for glock (storm lake?)
And how drastic would the groups of the standard barrel vs a fitted barbell be when bench zeroing?
Thanks
I use storm lake for everything.
Group size differences really depends on how well the Glock barrel locks up to the slide. Less play = more accuracy. If we say that Glock barrels (typically) shoot 3-4" @25yds then a fitted barrel will produce between .50-1" groups (assuming you are using some type of RDS like an RMR).
C4
Assuming your a not LE, the GEN 4 Glock is roughly $100 above the cost of an M&P.
The new internals in the M&P are VERY good and with just some polishing can be excellent IMHO.
GEN 4 trigger pulls are 6-6.5LBS. So (for me), I have to add a 3.5 connector. The M&P trigger pull is in the 5-5.5LBS. I can live with this pull weight.
So the Glock will be more money and the there is a solid chance that you will need to add an Apex extractor.
If $100 + is of no concern, then I would say to go with the gun that you like better.
C4
Plus you have to get rid of the crap plastic sights on the Glock, the M&Ps are steel at least.
Plus you have to get rid of the crap plastic sights on the Glock, the M&Ps are steel at least.
Yes. Most people don't like the 3 dot system on the M&P either so both guns will get their sights changed out.
C4
I agree on changing to better sights, but at least the M&Ps are quality to start with.
Also I have seen the mags available from different places, not as available as they once were, but they are out there.
I was ready to switch to M&Ps after getting a fs 45, but the accuracy rumors with the 9s kept me from following through. Another gun that may only need better sights is the PPQ, which has been mentioned a few times around here.
Plus you have to get rid of the crap plastic sights on the Glock, the M&Ps are steel at least.
They're not sights - they're placeholders. ;)
I have carried both Glock and M&P--I strongly prefer the M&P. Current M&P9's I've shot are as accurate as recent 9 mm Glocks I've used. The new M&P triggers work well and smooth out nicely over 1000 rounds or so. The sights on the M&P work much better for me than the cheesy Glock factory sights. Just like when I sold almost all the 1911's I previously relied on, I am now getting ready to part with Glocks, in favor of the M&P's I am now using.
Are the M&Ps that you are moving to caliber specific, or multiple calibers?
Are they current M&Ps, or older ones?
What modifications (other than sights) do you make to your M&Ps?
What do you think of the M&P Compacts?
Thanks.
theblackknight
06-13-13, 14:29
You sir need to get in touch with a rep from Glock. You passed go, you shouldget your "200$".
Ha. Not in Virginia. Two dealers purported to be blue label dealers. One flat out told me they no longer participate and the other has never responded to me. I'm sittin' on two GSSF coupons that are essentially worthless.
Course, it may have something to do with the craziness in the gun business for the last 6 months...
I previously carried an M&P45 w/ambi safety and was very pleased--out of the box they shot nearly as accurately as the custom 1911's I had previously used, but for 20% of the price. For a variety of reasons, I have moved away from other calibers in favor of primarily using 9 mm; thus I switched to the M&P9 w/ambi safety this year as my primary handgun, but would happily carry the M&P in any service caliber if given unlimited free practice ammo. The M&P9's I have were all made after July 2012; all have shot with the same degree of accuracy as the 9 mm Glocks I've used. I like the M&P9c and 9 mm Shield; I am not a fan of these in other calibers.
The M&P ambi safety models I use have the following done:
-- Apex Duty Kit (the triggers on M&P's made post mid-2012 are acceptable and smooth out nicely over 1000 rounds or so)
-- 10-8 magazine base plates
-- Stipple frame and backstrap
-- Re-shaped and stippled Costa Catalyst mag release on M&P9/M&P40; stippled OEM mag release on M&P45
-- If I have to use iron sights I don't mind the stock ones, although these days I now prefer an RMR RDS with suppressor height BIS.
I previously carried an M&P45 w/ambi safety and was very pleased--out of the box they shot nearly as accurately as the custom 1911's I had previously used, but for 20% of the price. For a variety of reasons, I have moved away from other calibers in favor of primarily using 9 mm; thus I switched to the M&P9 w/ambi safety this year as my primary handgun, but would happily carry the M&P in any service caliber if given unlimited free practice ammo. The M&P9's I have were all made after July 2012; all have shot with the same degree of accuracy as the 9 mm Glocks I've used. I like the M&P9c and 9 mm Shield; I am not a fan of these in other calibers.
The M&P ambi safety models I use have the following done:
-- Apex Duty Kit (the triggers on M&P's made post mid-2012 are acceptable and smooth out nicely over 1000 rounds or so)
-- 10-8 magazine base plates
-- Stipple frame and backstrap
-- Re-shaped and stippled Costa Catalyst mag release on M&P9/M&P40; stippled OEM mag release on M&P45
-- If I have to use iron sights I don't mind the stock ones, although these days I now prefer an RMR RDS with suppressor height BIS.
Thank you. Very good info. Is that Cost Catalyst Mag release still available?
I previously carried an M&P45 w/ambi safety and was very pleased--out of the box they shot nearly as accurately as the custom 1911's I had previously used, but for 20% of the price. For a variety of reasons, I have moved away from other calibers in favor of primarily using 9 mm; thus I switched to the M&P9 w/ambi safety this year as my primary handgun, but would happily carry the M&P in any service caliber if given unlimited free practice ammo. The M&P9's I have were all made after July 2012; all have shot with the same degree of accuracy as the 9 mm Glocks I've used. I like the M&P9c and 9 mm Shield; I am not a fan of these in other calibers.
The M&P ambi safety models I use have the following done:
-- Apex Duty Kit (the triggers on M&P's made post mid-2012 are acceptable and smooth out nicely over 1000 rounds or so)
-- 10-8 magazine base plates
-- Stipple frame and backstrap
-- Re-shaped and stippled Costa Catalyst mag release on M&P9/M&P40; stippled OEM mag release on M&P45
-- If I have to use iron sights I don't mind the stock ones, although these days I now prefer an RMR RDS with suppressor height BIS.
Long time 1911 user? Was wondering why your running the safety models.
morbidbattlecry
06-13-13, 20:04
I would strongly suggest you handle and if you can shoot both. I recently picked up a M&P9 to see what the hype was about. I found out that the length of pull of the trigger( for lack of a better term, how far the trigger is from the web of your thumb and pointer finger) was too short and i could not shoot the gun well and comfortably. It also had a very heavy trigger. On top of that i did not like how the grip felt. I did spend some money on the trigger and got Apex's AEK trigger with there sear and spring set. Made the trigger amazing. But i still had some issues shooting it that went away when i picked up my G17.
I'm not trying to bash the M&P i'm just saying you may get one and it just not be the gun for you. Then again it may fit you perfectly. But you should handle both and pick the one you like best. Both will serve you well.
I strongly prefer pistols with a safety, as I have twice seen officers' lives potentially saved when another person gained control of an officer's pistol, but the engaged manual safety prevented the weapon from firing. Likewise I have seen several Glocks fire when equipment inadvertently depressed the trigger, despite the finger being straight along the frame--an engaged manual safety would have prevented these accidents.
theblackknight
06-13-13, 21:02
Doc, how do you deal with the thumb safety? It dosent even click. I was like "wudda fug is this?".
I previously carried an M&P45 w/ambi safety and was very pleased--out of the box they shot nearly as accurately as the custom 1911's I had previously used, but for 20% of the price. For a variety of reasons, I have moved away from other calibers in favor of primarily using 9 mm; thus I switched to the M&P9 w/ambi safety this year as my primary handgun, but would happily carry the M&P in any service caliber if given unlimited free practice ammo. The M&P9's I have were all made after July 2012; all have shot with the same degree of accuracy as the 9 mm Glocks I've used. I like the M&P9c and 9 mm Shield; I am not a fan of these in other calibers.
The M&P ambi safety models I use have the following done:
-- Apex Duty Kit (the triggers on M&P's made post mid-2012 are acceptable and smooth out nicely over 1000 rounds or so)
-- 10-8 magazine base plates
-- Stipple frame and backstrap
-- Re-shaped and stippled Costa Catalyst mag release on M&P9/M&P40; stippled OEM mag release on M&P45
-- If I have to use iron sights I don't mind the stock ones, although these days I now prefer an RMR RDS with suppressor height BIS.
The current M&P safeties tend to click pretty well--just like a 1911. On some of the older ones from 2006-2009 we slightly deepened the safety detent to give a positive click; takes about 3 min to accomplish.
brushy bill
06-14-13, 19:27
The current M&P safeties tend to click pretty well--just like a 1911. On some of the older ones from 2006-2009 we slightly deepened the safety detent to give a positive click; takes about 3 min to accomplish.
Doc,
To clarify, do you just remove a little of the polymer to deepen the notch?
I ask because I am strongly considering a safety equipped M&P for appendix carry over my current set up...maybe a function of getting older, but I'm more and more concerned with a ND into an artery or something else I don't intend to perforate. However, I really would like a positive engagement.
BTW, I've learned a great deal from your posts on this forum.
The barrel changes is a VERY recent thing (couple months max). So it is entirely possible people are getting guns with older twist rates and such.
C4
Grant do you know how I would go about telling if the MP I just picked up has the newer barrel? It was received and stocked at the store on May 18th. Are there forge marks or anything on an twist rate indicated? I pulled the barrel today and did a full field strip and cleaning, and saw no twist rate indicated on the barrel. I looked in the bore though and it does seem like an aggressive twist.
"To clarify, do you just remove a little of the polymer to deepen the notch?"
NO! A bit of metal is removed from the safety lever notch.
brushy bill
06-15-13, 06:26
NO! A bit of metal is removed from the safety lever notch.
Thanks Doc. That could have been ugly.
NO! A bit of metal is removed from the safety lever notch.
This may help as well:
http://mp-pistol.com/mp-gunsmithing/24030-how-i-firmed-up-my-manual-safety-2.html
varoadking
06-15-13, 08:38
Ha. Not in Virginia. Two dealers purported to be blue label dealers. One flat out told me they no longer participate and the other has never responded to me. I'm sittin' on two GSSF coupons that are essentially worthless.
Town Police Supply in Chesterfield (South Richmond) is a GSSF dealer.
brushy bill
06-15-13, 09:21
This may help as well:
http://mp-pistol.com/mp-gunsmithing/24030-how-i-firmed-up-my-manual-safety-2.html
Just what I needed. Thanks much!
I have been wanting a Gen4 G17, but have been concerned with all the chatter about extractor issues. I finally decided that getting a newer one would be safe (hopefully Glock has taken care of the issue by now).
Anyway I just got one, factory test fired April 2013. I've only had a brief chance to shoot it and only had time to put 50 rounds through it. All the rounds ejected off to my right around 4:00 and all 3 mags fed with no issues:). I know, only 50 rounds, but I was pleased and it felt good and shot well. Other than shooting it more I want to replace the sights.
This is my first Glock 9mm and joins the Gen3 G30SF and G21SF I have.
birdkiller
06-19-13, 01:13
Sorry to jump on the ask-Doc/Grant-about-their-preferences band wagon, but I had a question for you guys. What kind of duty-type holster do you use/recommend?
I use a Safariland ALS for my Glock and love it; But, I have been thinking about what type of mechanism (SLS vs. ALS) for a 1911 or M&P w/ thumb safety to use. I like the ALS, but not sure how it would work with a thumb safety equipped firearm. It seems that your thumb would be behind/under the safety while you're drawing requiring you to move it forwards again.
Thanks for your help - BK
Keep in mind all my pistols now run an RDS, duty holsters include:
M&P9/40 w/ambi safety: Safariland ALS AP2
Glock 19/17: Safariland ALS AP2 or ALS 6354DO
http://www.holsterops.com/als-p-2-optic-sight-holster
birdkiller
06-19-13, 14:40
Thanks! Operating the ALS and thumb safety don't cause an issue?
Was it difficult to get your department to okay pistols with a RDS mounted?
Bk
No issues with the safety.
We just completed a 3 year study of RDS use on pistols. Contact me if you want a copy for your agency.
I wanted to love the M&P, they feel great in my hand. But I still get on target faster and more accurately with a Glock no matter how good the M&P feels. I have friends that are the opposite and shoot the M&P better. You really need to find someone with each that will let you shoot them.
I sold my M&P and went back to Glock. My Gen4s are all test fired post Nov '11, and all 3 (two 17's and a 19) are flawless so far. My highest round count of the three is only 1400 though.
I also had issues with my M&P failing to feed properly, which I documented in the M&P problem thread on this board. I know Glock is taking a lot of heat for the extraction issues, and they should, but every manufacturer is capable of sending out a crap gun.
I wanted to love the M&P, they feel great in my hand. But I still get on target faster and more accurately with a Glock no matter how good the M&P feels. I have friends that are the opposite and shoot the M&P better. You really need to find someone with each that will let you shoot them.
I am right there with. I love way the M&Ps feel. But i dont shoot them nearly as well as my glocks.
I have both S&W and glock lineups in 9mm and am in colorado if anyone ever wants to try them all side by side.
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