View Full Version : Lube comparison...
In particular Slip 2000 EWL compared to Mobil 1. Due to a lot of research/feedback for the past year or so I had begun to use Mobil 1 on my (wife's :rolleyes: ) Bushmaster and also due largely to what I had been reading here I ordered Slip 2000 EWL for my new LMT.
As for comparison they both seem to behave in a similar manner. Both seem to stand up to the heat of continued use in a DI system. EWL seems a little 'thinner' it tends to run out any crack it can find, but it still remains wet where it was applied. Mobil 1 seems to stay where it is put better, it stays wet but doesn't seem to 'travel' as easily.
They both make cleaning easier, again I'd have to give a slight edge to Mobil 1 here. Although I can't call this definitive. Due to weather I only put 100-120 rnds through the LMT with EWL. However I had maybe 500 rnds on the BM since it's last cleaning after switching to Mobil 1. I was quite impressed with it's ease of clean up and ability to stay in place after so many rounds.
I use small bottles filled with Mobil 1 and glass droppers, this makes application much easier. I may follow suit and get a glass dropper for the EWL. I plan to continue this comparison and see what happens. But I must say I am already tempted to switch to Mobil 1 across the board.
I know many of you have more experience and shoot more with carbines. Have any of you done a similar comparison before? Any thoughts?
I use auto tranny fluid for oil and brian enos' slide glide when I need grease. It must work as I've never had a lube-related malfunction but I think there has to be something better out there and will watch this thread closely.
BushmasterFanBoy
04-06-08, 19:41
I use Hoppe's lube in both of my AR's. Both run without hiccups. High round counts as well. After a day's shooting of several hundred rounds in a compact time span, my carrier is still covered in (dirty) lube.
I've been playing around with Mobil-1 on other people's guns and my own, for the past few years, with excellent results. My 1911s all seem to like it fine. I am not a chemist, by any means, but can any industry professional who is knowledgeable about/designs firearms lubricants, explain what exactly the advantages are to weapon-specific lubes like Slip2000, MilTec, FP-10, and the others, compared to simple Mobil-1 or transmission fluid?
I'm not cheap when it comes to my guns, but it seems that, at $1 per ounce for CLP/Dri-Lube/Brand X/Amazing New Lube of the Month vs. $7 a quart for Mobil 1, there had better be some magic happening in the smaller bottles, something that makes them, by definition, better for guns, as opposed to being simply marketed for guns. Engines run hotter than firearms, so I know it's not that. I would like to know about real, designed-into-the-formula advantages that make firearms-specific lubricants a better choice for firearms - and if not, why aren't we pushing Mobil 1? All informed opinions appreciated in advance.
Parabellum9x19mm
04-07-08, 02:03
I also use motor oil for ARs. right now Nappa 10W-40
Robb Jensen
04-07-08, 04:53
In my experience all the higher end gun lubes work almost equally well. I use Militec-1, Slip2000, WeaponShield, Machingunners Lube/10-8 lube).
For direct impingment standard ARs I find that WeaponShield burns off the slowest. I notice this while shooting supressed. Militec-1 I find burns off almost as slow.
I've been shooting regularly, and quite frequently, for 32 yrs. in northern Ohio. For most of that period I was using the original formula Clenzoil for lubing everything. Back then they only had one product, it was made locally and worked very well. I still have some of it from a bulk purchase that was made before they started coming out with their current line of products, so I can't speak for it today.
In the last 5 years I've been using a lot of Militech, Slip2000, and a 2:1 "red oil" blend that I mix-up of Mobil1 motor oil & auto trans fluid. My experiences are far from being scientific, but I see little difference between the lubes in all weather conditions with high round counts and using suppressors. One AR, that is used primarily for classes and instructing, gets "red oil" exclusively and it just keeps running.
Just my limited observations - YMMV.
I've used everything from CLP to synthetic motor oil. I'm running Slip 2000 EWL now primarily because it is non-toxic and not petroleum based. It works as advertised.
I've been using Mobil 1 for 3 or 4 weeks now. It seems to be really good.
I don't have a dropper though. I just use cotton swabs to mop it onto my bolt.
RogerinTPA
04-08-08, 19:39
I normally use militec on my handguns and rifles for slow fire. If I do a high round count shoot (500 rds +) or attend a class, I'll run with Slip EWL. I have been curious about Mobil1 lately and definitely will be giving it a try.
I haven't tried Mobil1, but have used and continue to use Militec, Slip2000EWL, and Weapon Shield. I have a good amount of Militec, but once it is all gone, I'll probably just use Slip2000EWL. I have had good results, and like someone else mentioned I like that it is non-toxic and not petroleum based unlike the Militec or Mobil.
-RD62
For direct impingment standard ARs I find that WeaponShield burns off the slowest
That's been my observation as well since they sent me samples to try. Also, I don't see as much fouling clinging to things either, even on dirty as hell SBR's.
Seth Harness
04-08-08, 21:03
I use auto tranny fluid for oil and brian enos' slide glide when I need grease. It must work as I've never had a lube-related malfunction but I think there has to be something better out there and will watch this thread closely.
Have you or anyone else tried white lithium grease by any chance?
To the best of my knowledge Mobil 1 is not petrolem based, it is a full synthetic, so is Slip 2000. Where are our automotive engineers when we need them.:D
What about Gun Butter? I have seen it on some 1911 sites and MSTN Sells it and shows it with a Receiver & Carrier Lubrication using Gun Butter & and special wipes. Check out MSTN web site and the section on lubing the Rec & BCG with their special kit.
Lagadelphia
04-09-08, 02:04
Have you or anyone else tried white lithium grease by any chance?
I use a little on the contact surfaces on the bolt carrier and the upper. I use Hoppes oil on everything else. I haven't had an issue thus far but I've not wrung my rifle out in various weather conditions or high round counts.
i know a bit about engine oils....and it makes sense to me that if you are going to use a motor oil in your rifle, probably best to look for those that have the API "energy conserving" circle symbol on the back.
these normally contain friction modifiers of some sort, such as ptfe or moly. anything that reduces friction cant be bad i guess:confused:
unless you are using it in a motorcycle with a wet clutch.....:D
I've been working on using up a liter of Mobil 1/ATF for a couple years. It doesn't run off and at a 2-3:1 ratio it's thin enough that it doesn't slow down and sludge up like straight 10w30. As cheap as it is, I just submerge the BCG and loosely wipe off the excess.
I haven't tried the Slip EWL or 10-8 stuff yet and don't see a reason to run grease in an AR. I am playing with slide glide on the pistols though.
To the best of my knowledge Mobil 1 is not petrolem based, it is a full synthetic, so is Slip 2000. Where are our automotive engineers when we need them.:D
Mobil one is NOT a "true" full synthetic. The only oils that are that I know about are: Amsoil, Castrol 0-30 European formula, some Royal Purple oils, some Redline oils, and then the designer stuff for certain car manufacturers. I think ELF may be, but am not sure. I am sure there are a couple I missed, but Mobil 1 is not among them. After losing a law-suit with Castrol (Mobil 1 accused them of lying basically, as Castrol calls their group III with Group IV/V added oils "fully synthetic" which is slightly deceptive.), they now include just enough group IV/V oils to be considered "fully synthetic" according to a lable they apply. I hate mobil 1 and it has given poor results compared to the 0-30 Euro formula (Pure synthetic) Castrol I use. With Mobil 1 I: used more oil, and had more grey goo on my drain plug magnet. True, LS1's like to use oil, but 0-30 GC cut that in HALF.
I found these threads very informative:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=8899
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=8834&page=3
I've used Castrol GPS Motorcycle Engine Oil (synthetic-based) on mine ...It's all I had at the time & actually worked pretty good :D
Have you or anyone else tried white lithium grease by any chance?
I just started running a Noveske N4 on white lithium grease.
500 went downrange last week and there were no issues. Given the low round count, I am waiting to get up to 1500 rounds before cleaning, just to see how it works. At 500, everything seems to be running just fine.
$3 for a 10oz tube at Lowes seems pretty nice. Any excess grease does turn yellow pretty rapidly though.
RogerinTPA
04-09-08, 16:16
Actually, using synthetic motor oil is smart. You can get it for free from the used bottles in the dumpster behind a lube joint, there's bound to be a little left in every bottle for all your shooting needs!!:p
Has anybody tried Gun Butter yet?
toddackerman
04-10-08, 19:47
I've been using Mad Dog Labs XF-7 Grease for 3 years now with a top coat of Machine Gunners lube (Prior to Machine Gunners Lube coming out I used CLP as a top coat). Works very well. No malf's., and the clean up is 100%. No scraping, dental picks etc., and even the inside of the BCG is spotless after 7,000 rounds. The combo of the 2 lubes stays put (probably because the XF-7 holds it all in place).
The XF-7 doesn't burn off after several hundreds of rounds and it is a superior protectant even against salt water. The Machine Gunners lube keeps things wet. The wettest I've seen and I think I've seen them all. I just think it's a little cumbersome of a duo, and would consider something like Mobil 1 as the only lube I need if it worked as well as what I've described.
I've been wondering about oil used for diesel engines. I know they have a lot of detergents which I think would help keep the carbon broken up. Another thing they have more of that the EPA is working on getting rid of for emissions reasons is ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate = Zinc and Phosphorus). In my limited research it supposed to act like an emergency buffer when there would have otherwise been metal to metal contact. I know its used in some racing type oils and is supposed to be good for things like solid lifter cams to reduce wear. Might be good for firearms use, but I would like to research it some more. I may try a 50/50 mix with ATF or some other concoction. I just don't think I run my rifles hard enough to notice any difference. But I'll try and remedy that in the near future. I would like to try some of this machine gunner's lube I've been hearing a lot about.
I have been using Mobil 1 since about 1997 as the primary lube for all my weapons systems.
Works great.
I like TW25B for a lightweight grease, and Mobil synthetic grease for HD grease.
Intend on buying some white lithium grease to use instead of TW25B.
I've been using Mad Dog Labs XF-7 Grease for 3 years now with a top coat of Machine Gunners lube (Prior to Machine Gunners Lube coming out I used CLP as a top coat). Works very well. No malf's., and the clean up is 100%. No scraping, dental picks etc., and even the inside of the BCG is spotless after 7,000 rounds. The combo of the 2 lubes stays put (probably because the XF-7 holds it all in place).
The XF-7 doesn't burn off after several hundreds of rounds and it is a superior protectant even against salt water. The Machine Gunners lube keeps things wet. The wettest I've seen and I think I've seen them all. I just think it's a little cumbersome of a duo, and would consider something like Mobil 1 as the only lube I need if it worked as well as what I've described.
I've been using the exact combo on some of my 1911's and it seems to work great. The don't dry up aound the 400 round mark and get sluggish.
SLIP2000 is a non-mineral based synthetic like the group IV synthetic motor oils (Royal Purple, etc.). The base materials probably have similar characteristics but the additives make the difference in the properties. For instance, SLIP2000 and Royal Purple have similar pour points, flash points, and results in the four ball wear tests. However, one may have more detergents or viscocity modifiers than the other.
As an example, SLIP2000 allows the rotating pin between the "V" blocks in a Falex test to seize at 750 lbs. SLIP EWL doesn't allow seizure until 4,500 lbs. SLIP probably changed their additives to change this characteristic. Unfortunately motor oils testers use this test to measure wear and not pressure before seizure so you can't tell how SLIP and motor oil compare.
If someone really wanted to know how these lubricants compare, they could send samples out to a testing lab like the car guys use and, for about $20, have them analyzed.
Even better would be to take several new ARs and run each one with a different lube for a few thousand rounds each and then have the used lube tested. The amouint of metal particulates in each could give you a good idea of how the lubricant was working.
I just started running a Noveske N4 on white lithium grease.
500 went downrange last week and there were no issues. Given the low round count, I am waiting to get up to 1500 rounds before cleaning, just to see how it works. At 500, everything seems to be running just fine.
$3 for a 10oz tube at Lowes seems pretty nice. Any excess grease does turn yellow pretty rapidly though.
hmmm.... This grease type is a bit sticky. Might be a pain to clean off your rifle. Did you put some on the bolt itself or just the carrier and upper? try a fully synthetic diesel engine oil. Thats what I use. Makes cleaning very easy and gives excellent lubrication and ofcourse, is very heat resistant.
Mobil one is NOT a "true" full synthetic. The only oils that are that I know about are: Amsoil, Castrol 0-30 European formula, some Royal Purple oils, some Redline oils, and then the designer stuff for certain car manufacturers. I think ELF may be, but am not sure. I am sure there are a couple I missed, but Mobil 1 is not among them. After losing a law-suit with Castrol (Mobil 1 accused them of lying basically, as Castrol calls their group III with Group IV/V added oils "fully synthetic" which is slightly deceptive.), they now include just enough group IV/V oils to be considered "fully synthetic" according to a lable they apply. I hate mobil 1 and it has given poor results compared to the 0-30 Euro formula (Pure synthetic) Castrol I use. With Mobil 1 I: used more oil, and had more grey goo on my drain plug magnet. True, LS1's like to use oil, but 0-30 GC cut that in HALF.
Wow! Thanks for this info! I knew nothing about this until I read your post. I actually suggested Mobil 1 in the militech thread as I was planning on purchasing a liter when I run out of Isuzu Besco.
Trying to do some more research on this. According to Mobil1.com this is a synthetic oil or to quote "Synthetic Base Stocks and Additives". I printed off a copy of 'Typical Properties' and the MSDS. According to which, Mobil 1 has low to no toxicity. Sounds comparable to Slip 2000 here. I'm no engineer and am unfamiliar with a lot of this. I need more education on such matters and would like to see similar properties for Slip and some of the other top gun lubes. Like I said at the top of this thread, Mobil 1 has out performed every gun lube I've ever tried before and for more and thirty years now that has been a lot of lubes. I guess when you think about what it was designed for serving as a gun lube is light duty for a synthetic motor oil. It has been 15+ years since I had any involvement in engine rebuilds and I can't remember (I would have to dig them up) but I imagine most tolerances in an engine are tighter than most firearms. The cyclic rate (rpm's) for an engine are most definetly higher than the average firearm as is the temperatures, which would be sustained for an engine.
Again I would love to see some engineers step in here. But as most of you can tell I think a syn' motor oil may be very hard to beat as a gun oil. I'm now really considering stripping down my LMT and going to Mobil 1 on both rifles. Please keep up the input. I belive the wide range of experience is itself an education. Thanks guys.
tumbleweed1002
04-16-08, 19:31
I use royal purple in my AR and CETME and have no problems what so ever it stays put and makes clean up a breeze not to mention a quart should last about 100 years.
Failure2Stop
04-16-08, 21:32
Like I said at the top of this thread, Mobil 1 has out performed every gun lube I've ever tried before and for more and thirty years now that has been a lot of lubes. I guess when you think about what it was designed for serving as a gun lube is light duty for a synthetic motor oil. It has been 15+ years since I had any involvement in engine rebuilds and I can't remember (I would have to dig them up) but I imagine most tolerances in an engine are tighter than most firearms. The cyclic rate (rpm's) for an engine are most definetly higher than the average firearm as is the temperatures, which would be sustained for an engine.
I have a lot of questions about using Motor Oil as a firearm lubricant.
Engines cycle oil onto the operating parts constsntly during operation, whereas lube is stripped from the operating parts of a firearm with no reapplication other than by the user, especially a concern with DI guns.
This has made me pretty interested in the additive type lubricants, such as Slick 50. I figure that they keep the engine running even in the absence of sustained lubrication. This seems to be a positive property. This is assuming that there is no PTFE, of course, in the lube (I have not checked the ingredients).
ETA- I am not suggesting or recommending Slick 50, it is just the only one I know by name.
I currently use Slip2000, machinegunners lube, MD labs XF7 and TW25B. All seem to work well no complaints.
Parabellum9x19mm
04-18-08, 23:07
is the reasoning behind wanting a full synthetic motor oil, because petroleum based lubricants promote carbon deposits?
all things being equal, are they are both on par in terms of lubrication....until one starts to become fouled and the lubrication qualities are diminished?
also on a DI system, are the heavier weights of motor oil prefered, because they are less likely to get blown away during cycling? i started out with 5W-30, but quickly switched over the 10W-40. so far so good.
is the reasoning behind wanting a full synthetic motor oil, because petroleum based lubricants promote carbon deposits?
all things being equal, are they are both on par in terms of lubrication....until one starts to become fouled and the lubrication qualities are diminished?
also on a DI system, are the heavier weights of motor oil prefered, because they are less likely to get blown away during cycling? i started out with 5W-30, but quickly switched over the 10W-40. so far so good.
I can't answer the first two as I only have an opinion. I had seen Mobil 1 recommended in 5W-30 many times and went with it. I am also curious about the heavier weights but have been so satisified with the 5W-30 that I haven't experimented any more. I'm thinking about stripping all the lube off my LMT and going with Mobil 1 on everything, just trying to get all the info I can.
If you use mobil 1 on your weapon, which one do you use? There's about 5 different ones.
If you use mobil 1 on your weapon, which one do you use? There's about 5 different ones.
Viscosity, which is actually a personal preference.
Im not sure if they come in different levels of heat resistance but if they do, that would definitely be something to look at as well.
If you just HAVE to run motor oil instead of a application correct lube, I would recommend Shell Rotella. It's add-pack is pretty mean and it has done very well over several million miles in different cars my family has owned. Dad escorted over-sized loads and tried EVERY oil to try and get the motors to last longer. Shell-rotella got him to about 400K on one engine IIRC (302 in a late 80's crown vic). I know he has 300-350K on his work-van right now using it (350 Vortec, chevy).
He tried oils from Amsoil (he was a dealer for them) to Quaker State (don't run this stuff...just don't. It sludged up like crazy!).
My personal experience with Shell Rotella T 15-40.
I bought a LT1 Trans Am with 150K on it. THe previous owner had used Castrol GTX 20-50 (way too large of a split for a non-synthetic, as well as a bit heavy, even for a higher milage engine). Anyways, I ran the Rotella and drained the oil 500 miles later. (I first changed the castrol out, which came out BLACK but just thick like oil).
When I pulled the Rotella out 500 miles later, as I was saying, it came out BLACK and like pudding in the filter. Same thing another 500 miles later. After about 3-4 oil changes, the oil was staying clear, and oil-changes became normal. It really knocked the sludge out of the engine.
All of the 200K+ mile 5.0's 4.6L's my dad tore down using Rotella T were VERY clean inside as well.
longshot
If you use mobil 1 on your weapon, which one do you use? There's about 5 different ones
I use, and have seen recommended most, Mobil 1, 5W-30. I am curious about heavier grades but have been completely satisfied with 5W-30 that I'm just going the use the quart I have for the next 20-40 years:D
I got so tired of seeing my LMT turn wet on the outside from setting in the rack over the past two weeks with Slip that I stripped it last night and re-lubed with Mobil 1. Now I expect it to perform as well as it has on my(wife's:rolleyes: ) Bushmaster
WS6
If you just HAVE to run motor oil instead of a application correct lube, I would recommend Shell Rotella. It's add-pack is pretty mean and it has done very well over several million miles in different cars my family has owned. Dad escorted over-sized loads and tried EVERY oil to try and get the motors to last longer. Shell-rotella got him to about 400K on one engine IIRC (302 in a late 80's crown vic). I know he has 300-350K on his work-van right now using it (350 Vortec, chevy).
He tried oils from Amsoil (he was a dealer for them) to Quaker State (don't run this stuff...just don't. It sludged up like crazy!).
My personal experience with Shell Rotella T 15-40.
I bought a LT1 Trans Am with 150K on it. THe previous owner had used Castrol GTX 20-50 (way too large of a split for a non-synthetic, as well as a bit heavy, even for a higher milage engine). Anyways, I ran the Rotella and drained the oil 500 miles later. (I first changed the castrol out, which came out BLACK but just thick like oil).
When I pulled the Rotella out 500 miles later, as I was saying, it came out BLACK and like pudding in the filter. Same thing another 500 miles later. After about 3-4 oil changes, the oil was staying clear, and oil-changes became normal. It really knocked the sludge out of the engine.
All of the 200K+ mile 5.0's 4.6L's my dad tore down using Rotella T were VERY clean inside as well.
I had used Mobil 1 in a '90 Mustang 5.0L years ago and was very impressed with the results. I had made several mods and it would just refuse to lose to a 'vette. I have been past the hot rod stage for many years now and don't have a great deal of experience with motor oils in that application.
I went with Mobil 1 as a gun oil because I had seen SO many people using it and more than satisfied with it, now I'm a convert. I still would like to know what is the best lube but am begining to belive I may never know. For now I guess I'll stick to Mobil 1:)
Fozzy_Bear
04-28-08, 08:59
...
I have been past the hot rod stage for many years now and don't have a great deal of experience with motor oils in that application.
...
Well, I keep track of such things, (although I'm not really ""active"" in that culture... I take my car to a show or two a year) and from my experience, the only modern products that convert people AWAY from mobile 1 are AMSOIL and Royal Purple.
But even today, Mobile 1 is a solid choice. - It's what GM ships new corvettes with.
I don't have nearly the experience with weapons, but that's what the car guys are saying...
im curious about Sentry Solutions.
i remember years ago seeing alot of marketing and i had heard some good things...but it seemed to fall of the map.
i didnt even know it was still arround until recently.
...clue?
anyone use it?
militarymoron
04-28-08, 16:16
i've some of sentry solution's stuff from years ago - the dry film lube, moly powder, tuff cloth, grease etc. i tried it and it was 'ok'. i didn't feel that dirt and carbon 'brushed off' as easily as they claimed. tried using it on an AR and followed all the instructions, with no wet lube, and it didn't run very smoothly when dirty. carbon would just build up like normal, and wouldn't get floated away like with oil. the dry lube wouldn't hold up to friction between the gas rings and inside of the carrier - it just wore off and then it was pretty much running dry.
i did like their moly grease - i'd put a very thin layer of it on components then wet lube over it.
well i have been working on cars and weapons for over 25 years - natural oil has many bad habits like coking[ this is very hard and will cut steel -like your gas rings] and drying out/burn off -both will wear and tear/gull steel away- if you use 15w40 mobal one or any good synthic oil it help the life of your weapon !
I use Mobil 1 on my 2 AR's plus all my other firearms. Been using it for the last 5 years. It was recommended for my Z06 and also for my Jeep SRT8. So I have all vehiles and firearms on a Mobil 1 diet. VERY SATISFIED! I drain the plastic bootles at oil change time and use the residuel for my firearms and house projects.
i've some of sentry solution's stuff from years ago - the dry film lube, moly powder, tuff cloth, grease etc. i tried it and it was 'ok'. i didn't feel that dirt and carbon 'brushed off' as easily as they claimed. tried using it on an AR and followed all the instructions, with no wet lube, and it didn't run very smoothly when dirty. carbon would just build up like normal, and wouldn't get floated away like with oil. the dry lube wouldn't hold up to friction between the gas rings and inside of the carrier - it just wore off and then it was pretty much running dry.
i did like their moly grease - i'd put a very thin layer of it on components then wet lube over it.
doesnt sound too promising.
i have plenty to experiment with atm anyway i suppose.
Ya, moly's good but I guess you really have to dilute it in lube for this application.
RogerinTPA
04-29-08, 20:10
I use Militec for handguns and the ARs for precision slow fire and Slip EWL for classes and 500 round + shooting sessions. I'll have to try the Mobil 1 just for shits and giggles to see if it holds up.
I run Mobil 1 in my vehicles and Slip 2000 in my firearms. I guess if you were hard pressed for lube, you could use some Mobil 1...
FWIW - The latest "craze" among automotive synthetic oil seems to be Castrol German Syntec; a full synthetic oil that is well liked due to its "heavy" characteristics (of the 30 weight oil choices - apparently it won't burn off as easily as other synthetic 30 weights, such as Mobil 1).
YMMV
Lightning Struck
04-30-08, 08:19
WS6 hit the nail on the head about Shell Rotella.. We pulled the valve covers off our Powerstroke Diesel at 200k to change glow plugs, and you could literally eat off everything, no coking, no residue nothing. Same with the turbo, absolutely no deposits..
Every used piece of machinery we buy, gets 2 or 3 oil changes with Rotella to clean everything up. Someone also brought up ZDDP... It is true the EPA is trying to eliminate ZDDP out of oils, and this is definitely not a good thing. After the reduction/elimination of ZDDP in most oils, there was a rash of flat tappet failures, that resulted in ground off cam cores(most flat tappet cams are cast iron)..
On my fresh build, I plan on running Shell Synthetic Rotella.. I doubt the synthetic is really needed, as the sustained temps in a firearm are nowhere near those of a OTR diesel, but for the little cost per ounce why not!
About viscosity. Oil is almost constantly in shear, you have a non-moving bearing with a moving journal(on the crank, vice versa for the rods). Heavy viscosity oils increase shear strength and film thickness. FYI: Most ATF's are basically a straight 30w.. If you find their SUS numbers(measures viscosity more closely) you'll find they're very very close to each other. The difference is in the friction modifiers and detergent packages. In fact, many high HP drag racing vehicles actually use SAE 30w motor oil in their transmissions(same with most monster trucks)
Another option would be hydraulic oil, it's sticky, has very good load properties, and is formulated to clean/protect hard chromed surfaces. It's only issue is it's not the greatest in terms of temperature, although some systems do get warm(applications like Bobcat's etc).
Yet ANOTHER option, ableit more expensive, would be a micro-lubricant like Zmax. It's a carbon dispersing lubricant which seeps into the poors of the material(which might be an issue with a hard anodized product).
Two semesters of hydraulics/lubrication technology at Purdue gets me all excited about this stuff...sorry!
Soooo...will Rotella, etc., be as good as LT's Machine Gunner's Lube?
Lightning Struck WS6 hit the nail on the head about Shell Rotella.. We pulled the valve covers off our Powerstroke Diesel at 200k to change glow plugs, and you could literally eat off everything, no coking, no residue nothing. Same with the turbo, absolutely no deposits..
Every used piece of machinery we buy, gets 2 or 3 oil changes with Rotella to clean everything up. Someone also brought up ZDDP... It is true the EPA is trying to eliminate ZDDP out of oils, and this is definitely not a good thing. After the reduction/elimination of ZDDP in most oils, there was a rash of flat tappet failures, that resulted in ground off cam cores(most flat tappet cams are cast iron)..
On my fresh build, I plan on running Shell Synthetic Rotella.. I doubt the synthetic is really needed, as the sustained temps in a firearm are nowhere near those of a OTR diesel, but for the little cost per ounce why not!
About viscosity. Oil is almost constantly in shear, you have a non-moving bearing with a moving journal(on the crank, vice versa for the rods). Heavy viscosity oils increase shear strength and film thickness. FYI: Most ATF's are basically a straight 30w.. If you find their SUS numbers(measures viscosity more closely) you'll find they're very very close to each other. The difference is in the friction modifiers and detergent packages. In fact, many high HP drag racing vehicles actually use SAE 30w motor oil in their transmissions(same with most monster trucks)
Another option would be hydraulic oil, it's sticky, has very good load properties, and is formulated to clean/protect hard chromed surfaces. It's only issue is it's not the greatest in terms of temperature, although some systems do get warm(applications like Bobcat's etc).
Yet ANOTHER option, ableit more expensive, would be a micro-lubricant like Zmax. It's a carbon dispersing lubricant which seeps into the poors of the material(which might be an issue with a hard anodized product).
Two semesters of hydraulics/lubrication technology at Purdue gets me all excited about this stuff...sorry!
I think you just became our resident lube expert:D
It sounds like you like the idea of synthetic motor oils as gun lubes. Is this correct?
Please feel free to expand on this issue further. Thanks:)
im curious about Sentry Solutions.
i remember years ago seeing alot of marketing and i had heard some good things...but it seemed to fall of the map.
i didnt even know it was still arround until recently.
...clue?
anyone use it?
The only place it worked for me was on my knives. I used it in the swivel points and a thin coating on the blades. Never seemed to work in my guns.
I do have to say something about grease in guns...
I started-out lubbing my 1911's with CLP and the guns seemed to get sluggish quickly. I then switched to Militech which was a huge improvement. Then someone talked me into trying Slide-Glide. I followed the recommendations and slathered the stuff into the slide, around the barrel, and on the recoil spring. Wiped off the stuff on the outside of the gun and shot the match. The gun ran fine but what was really impressive was the clean-up. A paper towel was all that was needed. Everything just wiped out... no scrubbing or soaking in solvent.
I tried some on my AR's bolt tonight and will see how it performs during training next week.
I must say, this has been a very informative thread.
Anyone know where I can find this stuff? I haven't been able to find it anywhere.:confused:
Sounds like Slide Glide is similar to XD-7.
longshot
Anyone know where I can find this stuff? I haven't been able to find it anywhere.
Should be able to find it at a truck stop. I think I've seen it before.:)
Just ordered a free sample of Mil-comm TW25B. I hope it is as good as I've read. What's the concensus of using it on an AR's bolt/carrier vs. oil?
Been running Mobile 1 for years without any issues. Have been running Machine Gunners Lube from day one in a new BM carbine and it seems to be doing fine.
Here's that carbine after a 360 round range session lubed w/MGL:
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t210/rapfoto/_DSC7243-Version2.jpg
MGL did a pretty good job of not building up debris IMO. I need to do a side-by-side comparison between MGL and M1 with two carbines on the same day/same round count/same drills [urban prone, etc.] to see if there is any appreciable difference in crud build-up, carbon/dirt retention, etc.
MGL seems to be doing okay, but given the price difference, I'll most likely stick with M1 unless my low-speed dirt test proves otherwise.
For guys who use motor oil:
How is this for corrosion resitance?
How easy does it clean up compared to CLP?
For guys who use motor oil:
How is this for corrosion resitance?
How easy does it clean up compared to CLP?
I don't know if any additives are used to prevent corrosion but in personal use it has been good.
Clean up is it's strong point, just wipe it out. Carbon seems much less likely to build up. Keep it wet and carbon is suspended in the oil.
This applies to Mobil 1, I am a convert:D
Which grade of Mobil 1 is everyone referring to? Also, what is the purpose of mixing with red trans. fluid?
Which grade of Mobil 1 is everyone referring to? Also, what is the purpose of mixing with red trans. fluid?
5W-30 is the weight I've seen recommended most and is what I use. I've thought of trying 10W-30 but I expect my quart to last for a few decades.:D
I don't recall the exact reason for mixing trans fluid but as I understand it is a good lube as well. If you search some of the lube threads you may find more on this one.
PRGGodfather
06-11-08, 20:18
Has anybody tried Gun Butter yet?
Yes, I have. Seems to work pretty well. Cleans up easy, too. No problems with it at all. Just have to clean the metal with alcohol or acetone before you apply it. After that, it wipes off and relubes pretty easily.
Todd Jarret swears by the stuff. Of course, he gets it for free. He used GB for that 1,000 round pistol test, IIRC.
A buddy of mine is a medical engineer by trade. Worked for Lockheed for years.
He did some drag/lubricity tests on GB and said it performed almost 180% better than CLP as to lubricity. He became a distributor shortly thereafter, and now adapts the lubricant for small medical devices that need lubrication (pacemakers, cardiac flutter valves, etc.).
I didn't do the test myself -- but my engineer friend has no reason to blow smoke. Just MHO, FWIW.
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