View Full Version : Okay, back full swing into Milsurps.... what to buy
Since the market is still all frakked up from the panic buying I am back into Milsurps (never really left). So since that's the case I'm looking at expanding my collection into parts unknown. I'm looking at getting a French MAS-36, a Swiss K31, and lastly a Indian Ishapore Enfield. The Ishapore I know; the other two not so much. I do know that I waited to long for the good deals on guns or ammo. But hey... I'm still looking into them.
The French MAS uses a hard to find caliber. The Ishapore is of course 7.62x51 and an excellent shooter. Just make sure to get a good one. The Swiss K31 is of excellent quality but also fires an odd ball caliber.
I think the Ishapore would the best for shooting
Get the K31 and lots of ammo for it. I've heard they are tack drivers. Looking for a 1903-A3 myself and they are expensive nowadays.
Gutshot John
06-16-13, 19:16
I've had two ishapore's, when you could get them for a song. I think I bought a garand, and the seller threw in an Ishapore. Clean the shoe polish off (if you're looking for a shooter) and you have some realllly nice guns. I sold both, and that's been one of my bigger gun regrets over the years.
That said I've always had a K31 fetish, and regret not picking one up when I had the chance to get one cheap has been another one of those regrets.
Ive never had an Ishapore 7.62 Enfield so cant comment on those.
The MAS-36 is a nice little rifle, a bit unconventional looking to our eyes but they usually impress new owners. The LOP is short and the trigger is typically rough but they are usually fairly accurate with surplus French ball. That's the Achilles heel, thus far I haven't been able to develop and accurate load that would also reliably function my MAS 49/56. In the mean time I hoard all the French surplus I can find. These were a bargain in the 90s when they were new arsenal refurbs wrapped in cosmoline for $80. Now not as much, but deals can be found.
I love the K31. Its a work of art. The ammunition, while not typically found in walmart is more or less readily available in both surplus and commercial form. The surplus is very accurate and great looking stuff. The web is full of loading data if that's a route you may want to pursue. Earlier rifles like the 1896/11 and the 1911 often shoot a hair better but are less handy and with a 300m setting require holding under the target at the typical 100yd range. "Karabiner" 1911s(the earlier short rifle) IMHO look the coolest but tend to be the least accurate but still better than most rifles. Check under the buttplates they often have small white tags with the previous owners rank unit and address. I highly recommend, they've been cheaper but still worth the price of admission. Check simpsons ltd usually has a decent selection of swiss rifles.
Simpsons Ltd (http://www.simpsonltd.com/)
K-31s are neat and different. The only thing I don't like about them is the angle of the buttplate. It's a little weird but I guess it's a non-issue in the long run.
I don't shoot mine enough because I need more 7.5x55.
brickboy240
06-28-13, 11:17
Ever considered a Swedish M1896 Mauser?
Very well made, accurate as can be, ammo not hard to find, very low recoil and an all around nice rifle to shoot. Slim, sexy and nice to look at...like a Swedish super model! LOL
It is definitely my favorite bolt action milsurp and I own several Mausers, Enfields, Nagants and an 03 Springer.
-brickboy240
I don't shoot mine enough because I need more 7.5x55.
LINK (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=A75Swiss&name=Swiss+7.5x55+GP11+174grn+FMJ+10rd+box&groupid=36)
As for the OP, look HERE (http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=350_351_379)
You might try Mosin-Nagants. I just bought my tenth this past month and will probably get another in a couple of weeks. I managed to get my M1 Garand, M1 Carbine and 190A3 before the panic started. I wish I bought a 1903 from CMP when they had them-oh well. :(
Ever considered a Swedish M1896 Mauser?
Very well made, accurate as can be, ammo not hard to find, very low recoil and an all around nice rifle to shoot. Slim, sexy and nice to look at...like a Swedish super model! LOL
It is definitely my favorite bolt action milsurp and I own several Mausers, Enfields, Nagants and an 03 Springer.
-brickboy240
+1 on the Swedes. Beautifully made of Swedish steel (even the German-made ones used Swedish steel). The relatively soft shooting 6.5x55 is very accurate (great BC, funny looking spitzer style bullet).
Available in various bbl styles: 29", 24" and 18" (but the carbines are expensive, and are a topic on their own). Still in service, sort of (used by the Swedish royal guard). Iron sight upgrades are available (various types, including military, civilian marksmanship practice, and US-made aftermarket). Bayonets are very cool (derived from a teutonic hunting design), and not that expensive.
I have lots of stories about these old rifles, but here's one about soft shooting:
About ten years ago I went to the range with a 96/38 conversion (a 1896 version arsenal rebarreled to the shorter 1938 barrel) and just started shooting from the bench, killing time. It was July and I was wearing a t-shirt (sometimes I wear pants too :eek:). As time went on, I suddenly noticed that my shoulder hurt, said "that's it" and started counting the empty cases. 119. Try doing that with military config 30-06 or 8mm.
Finally, the 6.5 Swedish never caught on as a military cartridge (used by Sweden, and occasionally by Norway, Denmark, Finland, and Germany), it is still considered a good target cartridge.
Littlelebowski
07-02-13, 06:57
I really like my CG63 6.5 Swede if you want something a cut above the rest. 29" barrel, 2 stage trigger, free floated, blueing that looks like black glass.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/Guns/DSCN0659.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/Guns/DSCN0660.jpg
decodeddiesel
07-08-13, 03:30
Another Swede, the Ag m/42B is a very cool semi-auto WWII piece.
Another Swede, the Ag m/42B is a very cool semi-auto WWII piece.
Agree. But it has a few quirks. Among them:
1-Lube those cartridges before shooting
2-AFAIK, aside from the M16 series, it is the only direct gas impingement rifle generally issued by any military
3-The machinery that made them was later sold to the Egyptians and used to manufacture the "Hakim" rifle in 7.92mm
4-It is the most dangerous rifle in the world to reload; Ljungman or Hakim Thumb is much worse than Garand Thumb; if you forget the proper reloading process (place on safe), a stronger spring than the Garand will wait until your thumb is fully inserted into the top of the mag before snapping forward, and unlike the Garand, there is no charging handle to retard the process
brickboy240
07-11-13, 10:51
The 6.5x55 round is damned near perfect for a mid range deer round too.
I often wondered why they came out with the 260Rem when the 6.5x55 Swede will do more than that round.
You can load it light with a 77gr soft point for varmints or load it heavy with a Norma 156gr round nosed soft point for pigs or deer in heavy cover.
Recoil is VERY light and the round is damned accurate.
The rifles are built like my old 240 Volvo....simple, rugged and will run forever.
I say go for a Swedish Mauser....they will spoil you with their accuracy and build quality.
-brickboy240
2-AFAIK, aside from the M16 series, it is the only direct gas impingement rifle generally issued by any military
The Ljungman system differs from the AR system. The gas of the Ljungman flows from the gas tube to directly impinge on stub that's part of the carrier
http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/artiklar/ag42/ag42_601det.jpg
http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/artiklar/ag42/ag42_301det.jpg
The AR directs it's gas into an expansion chamber inside the carrier to operate a piston (bolt) & cylinder (carrier) arrangement
The 6.5x55 round is damned near perfect for a mid range deer round too.
I often wondered why they came out with the 260Rem when the 6.5x55 Swede will do more than that round.
They came out with the 260 Remington because after decades of trying, no one has been able to successfully sell the 6.5x55 to Americans.
But the one thing the 260 Remington has that the Swede does not is the 51mm case. Sporting rifles come in three basic lengths- Magnum, Long and Short. Long actions are sized for 30-06 length cases. Short actions are sized for 308 Winchester length cases. The Swede, along with the whole family of cartridges based on the 57mm length case, are too long for short actions and too short for long actions.
That's just the way it is
You can load it light with a 77gr soft point for varmints or load it heavy with a Norma 156gr round nosed soft point for pigs or deer in heavy cover.
Recoil is VERY light and the round is damned accurate.
The rifles are built like my old 240 Volvo....simple, rugged and will run forever.
I say go for a Swedish Mauser....they will spoil you with their accuracy and build quality.
-brickboy240
Swedish Mausers are of fine quality and the 6.5x55 is an excellent cartridge
decodeddiesel
07-12-13, 01:43
My only experience with the terminal effects of the 6.5x55 was on a whistle pig from about 150-200 yards. It was impressive to say the least.:lol:
I haven't shot a Ljungman in a good 20 years. Is it even possible to find these now-a-days?
brickboy240
07-12-13, 11:07
I have dropped quite a few Central Texas white tail deer and a few feral pigs with the 6.5x55 round. The 140gr soft point takes them down as good as my 270 or 30-06 ever has. Put the bullet where it goes (easy with the accurate Swede) and the critter goes straight down. I swear the Swede Mauser kicks no more than my 22-250 sporter.
Everyone in this state races to the 308, 30-06 or 270 for their deer-getter when really....something like the 6.5x55 makes more sense. The 6.5x55 is a better choice over the popular 243Win as well, because it launches heavier bullets. Makes a great choice for women or smaller kids, too.
Tikka and Sakko make some really nice sporters in 6.5x55 as well.
-brickboy240
OP
of the three rifles you listed, if those are what you want next, then get whichever one you find first in your price range.
They all shoot well, and if you reload you can find the load data and components with a little search.
The MAS bolt action is accurate if the sights are original, they have a unique setup in terms of how they are regulated, but if it's an untouched original sight/barrel combo you should be just fine.
They all have their place in firearms history, enjoy your collecting.
My K31 is very accurate and is a work of art but the straight pull bolt design causes the brass to land on top of my head. That gets annoying. Was there a manual of arms taught to the Swiss to cant the rifle when cycling or something?
My MAS 36 wasn't very impressive with PPU ammo and I've never even seen French surplus so I can't tell you much about it other than I like the sights on it. The other downside is if you're like me, I like breaking these milsurps down for firearms study and the MAS doesn't cater to this easily due to the notched screws. Manuals state that they were not meant to be stripped that far down by the soldiers, so only armorers had the specific bit to unscrew it.
I also have a Savage No. 4 Mk1* and a No. 5 "jungle carbine". All I've shot out of those was Pakistani .303 so...not great results there either. I love the Enfield actions though. Definitely part of any respectable military firearm collection.
LINK (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=A75Swiss&name=Swiss+7.5x55+GP11+174grn+FMJ+10rd+box&groupid=36)
As for the OP, look HERE (http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=350_351_379)
Im going to start hanloading for it now that I got some equipment.
I'm just glad it uses regular .308" projectiles.
CG Steve, if you handload for those Enfields, you can do amazing things with them. Best Enfield group I've shot was in a friend's rifle using his handloads.
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