View Full Version : Which powder for reloading for AR???
willieself
06-14-13, 22:14
I know everybody has their own personal preferences, just curious what folks are using..I can't seem to make up my mind..
Edit: for 223/5.56
Coal Dragger
06-14-13, 22:17
I have been having very good results with Hodgdon CFE223 with heavier bullets. Haven't loaded anything with 55gr or lighter bullets with it yet.
You'll get about 100 different answers and opinions on this, and none of them will really be wrong.
Snake Plissken
06-14-13, 22:21
assuming you mean 223/5.56
Whatever is available and cheap in at least 4lb quantity under the same lot #.
Favorite powder is easily TAC for loading progressively. Ramshot has the best published data for 223 Rem and 5.56. Loading with TAC on a progressive I can get single to low teen SD values. It's because of how fine TAC is.
for cheap shit I use 844 surplus but that stuff just sucks. You can't meter it by volume for shit because of the mixture.
Coal Dragger
06-14-13, 22:25
I have a pound of TAC that I need to try out.
CrazyFingers
06-14-13, 23:03
I have an 8lb jug of IMR 4320 that I've worked up some light target rounds with:
24.5gn, 55gn Hornady FMJBT, TulAmmo 5.56 Small Rifle Primers
Seems to be working fine. These days, you take what you can get a lot of the time.
H335 is also a favorite for .223.
ive used varget, AA2520, and the XBR8208. still working a favorite load but so far they have all worked well for 69, 75, and 77g projectiles. im still looking for a powder for SS109 projectiles.
m1a_scoutguy
06-15-13, 08:46
Go here,,most listed will work fine !!! http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp The list is LONG that work in a AR,,,all depends on what ya can find !!:eek:
AA2230/AA2520/H335/Varget/CFE223/Winchester 748,,many more,,I'm sure others will chime in with there favorites !!!
willieself
06-15-13, 14:03
Thanks for the info guys..I have been looking at the Hodgdon data base quit a bit...just was curious as to what others where using..and thats a big roger that on what ever you can find!!!! LOL
m1a_scoutguy
06-15-13, 14:31
Thanks for the info guys..I have been looking at the Hodgdon data base quit a bit...just was curious as to what others where using..and thats a big roger that on what ever you can find!!!! LOL
Not a problem,,glad to help out !! Everyone has there fav's,,but I always "really" liked the AA2230,,Ball powder,,,meters great & I always had great results with it !! H335 is also many guys preference,,but it was funky a few years ago with some of the Wolf primers,,,I think that has been taken care of now,so ya should be good to go . Also,,alot of guys use Reloader-15 I think,,I never have,,but heard its a decent choice !
Did a ton of research and based on some experienced reloaders and Barnes' recommendations, went with Ramshot TAC for 62 and 70 grain Barnes TSX round in a 16" BCM with a 1:7 twist. Had to go to gunbroker.com to get some though. Google the list of powder burn rates as it has a huge range of them that will work for various AR loads.
I use TAC for 64 gr and above and H335 for lighter than 64 gr. I have also had good luck with RL15 but prefer the TAC.
Like Snake said, TAC works great in a powder measure which means its perfect for progressive presses. I run a Dillon 550 with the Dillon powder measure and get great results.
Varget and Reloader 15 for 68g and heavier bullets. H335 and Varget for bullets lighter than 68g.
Nightvisionary
06-16-13, 03:07
Right now it is whatever powder I can get my hands on. Lately that has been Varget, one can of BLC-2, and some 8208XBR.
Jerseymike
06-16-13, 11:49
I've had great results using varget under 77 gr sierras.
HackerF15E
06-16-13, 11:52
I like Varget, and I can reload for my Garand with it too.
Good results with CFE223 with 55 grain bullets (whatever is available) in a DD 16" 1:7 twist barrel. Load about 25.7 grains. No chrono data yet.
TAC for 55s & 77s. Works pretty well for 7.62x51 and would be my fallback powder there if I ran out of Benchmark (and vice versa).
I have had really good results using H4895 in .223/.30-30/.308
Powder charges fill the case 80% @25.5gr and is pretty accurate behind 55g Hornady PSP's and Midsouth Varmint Nightmare bullets.
I have printed sub MOA groups in all of my rifles with this powder.
I also use IMR8208xbr and get the same results as H4895.
H322, wolf primers 69&77 gr SMK's. :D
I have managed to develop nice loads using Varget, H335, and BLC2 so far.
Next incarnation is IMR-4895 (which I also use for Garands and .308).
I have made some good rounds, and I have everything documented in my notes. This opens up some doors for me if I can't find one brand of powder, I have already done the leg work and can get one of the others that may be available.
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Next incarnation is IMR-4895 (which I also use for Garands and .308).
The complaint I've read about bothe 4895 and 8208 XBR is that if you're working up a hot load... close to 5.56mm pressures, these powders with turn on you without warning.
In other words, (and I've experienced this myself with 8208) you'll be working up a load with no signs of pressure at all, and then BAM! You're blowing primers and getting bad swipes.
The complaint I've read about bothe 4895 and 8208 XBR is that if you're working up a hot load... close to 5.56mm pressures, these powders with turn on you without warning.
In other words, (and I've experienced this myself with 8208) you'll be working up a load with no signs of pressure at all, and then BAM! You're blowing primers and getting bad swipes.
Great info to make others aware of Mark! The warning has been issued in every loading manual I've read "rework your load when powder lot numbers change". Were these powders that turned on you of the same lot numbers or did you use the same hot load and disregard the change in lot numbers? Personal when I run a charge close to the maximum I will rework the charge for my own personal safety. It's simple for me to fire a couple of rounds off of my back deck and check brass for pressure signs before heading back to the press assured of not creating grenade rounds...:suicide2:
My issue was with the 8208 powder. It was a lot change with a pretty thoroughly vetted load that was a clone of the Mk 262.
Lesson learned was that when you're loading OVER max to get a 5.56 velocity, take nothing for granted. ;)
waffentomas
06-18-13, 15:49
One of the 'silver linings' of all this hoarding of ammo, ARs, components, etc., is that since it has been harder to find my pet .223/.308 etc. powders, that I have had to buy whatever is on the shelf.
My preferences for .223 are 748 and Varget, with 8208 and CFE223 thrown in. However, I have now worked up loads using 4064, 3031, RL17, 335, 322, AA2520, and more.
It made me realize that there are a lot of good powders out there, and to be a little more versatile. I feel like i have loads for a lot more powders now that I am happy with, and don't much care what's on the shelf. Plus, with powder like RL17, which is pretty slow for the .223, virtually no load data exists for .223, and not really made for it at all, my interest in load development has been 'reborn'.
I have a customer and range friend who won't load anything but 4064 for his .308, and is now out of powder for it because, well, I don't know why exactly. But he's out of powder, and I'm sitting on 40+ pounds of just rifle powder because I just bought whatever came in. His loss....
ennbeegunny15
06-18-13, 19:40
4895 and 8208. That's what's in stock, so that's what I've been able to use. Just picked up some ar-comp so I'm gonna work some loads up and see what happens.
ennbeegunny15
06-18-13, 19:43
The complaint I've read about bothe 4895 and 8208 XBR is that if you're working up a hot load... close to 5.56mm pressures, these powders with turn on you without warning.
In other words, (and I've experienced this myself with 8208) you'll be working up a load with no signs of pressure at all, and then BAM! You're blowing primers and getting bad swipes.
I had heard that so I kept it under max. Good to know. And those powders are what I have the most of since that's what my lgs has been gettng.
I've used 335, 8208, and BLC2 with success. I'm no long range competitor though.
I try to keep it simple. RL-7 for lighter bullets. RL-15 for heavier bullets. That being said I also like 8208 and Varget.
I had heard that so I kept it under max. Good to know. And those powders are what I have the most of since that's what my lgs has been gettng.
You can load it to max. It's when you're developing a load that exceeds .223 pressures where you should be careful.
I'm on my 2nd 8lb jug of 8208 and have been very satisfied with it so far for 55gr projectiles.
For 69gr I go with Varget. Let's just say I have enough to get me to next summer.
I'm so new to reloading that my bench doesn't even have legs yet. (https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1069885_3275649667654_1459452319_n.jpg)
Anyway, what is this about using one kind of powder for lighter bullets and another for heavier ones?
Why is this the case?
Is there not a powder that will work universally?
I'm so new to reloading that my bench doesn't even have legs yet. (https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1069885_3275649667654_1459452319_n.jpg)
Anyway, what is this about using one kind of powder for lighter bullets and another for heavier ones?
Why is this the case?
Is there not a powder that will work universally?
As far as what powders will work with what wt. bullet, pick up a reloading manual or two and find a powder that will fill your role. The problem is right now all powders are not available and you have to settle for what is out there.
I'm so new to reloading that my bench doesn't even have legs yet. (https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1069885_3275649667654_1459452319_n.jpg)
Anyway, what is this about using one kind of powder for lighter bullets and another for heavier ones?
Why is this the case?
Is there not a powder that will work universally?
There are many powders that will work. But you will find as you get into reloading that there are powders that work better for different weight bullets. I'll have to look but I believe I have used RL-15 and Varget from 55gr. to 75gr.
Is there not a powder that will work universally?
Of course there is. But when you want to nail the best possible formula down for a given bullet, you probably will have a different powder for a light vs. a heavy bullet.
I could live with only H322 for everything if I had to pick one. It's a relatively fast powder that will for for light bullets, but for whatever reason is really works great with 69 and 77 grain bullets.
StrikerFired
07-18-13, 08:55
I really like H322. Cfe223 is good as well but h322 is my go to powder.
Apologies for the novice question here, but does it make a lick of a difference in terms of powder selection if one is reloading for an SBR versus a more traditional longer barrel.
Would one use a faster burning powder, etc for an SBR-optimized load?
Apologies for the novice question here, but does it make a lick of a difference in terms of powder selection if one is reloading for an SBR versus a more traditional longer barrel.
Would one use a faster burning powder, etc for an SBR-optimized load?
It can make a difference. But I've found that the AR gas system likes powders from the Medium (H322) to Slow (TAC) range.
H322 is nice because it's a little faster than some, yet it still works great on longer gas systems (rifle).
If you plan to reload for more than 1 rifle caliber Varget would be a good choice. I use it for 223, 30.06 Garand, 303 Brit and several others.
If you plan to reload for more than 1 rifle caliber Varget would be a good choice. I use it for 223, 30.06 Garand, 303 Brit and several others.
If for some strange reason you want to go with one powder, Varget is a good choice....
But in my opinion, there are much more user friendly choices for .223. Max loads with Varget are usually compressed.. unless you run a drop tube.... and Varget doesn't meter as good as other Hodgdon extrudeds like Benchmark or H322.
I'd go to the trouble of using Varget in 223 if there was something to be gained in accuracy... but you can't touch h322 in that department... you might match it, but you won't beat it. :p
There are some aspects of powder/bullet combos that aren't easily identified or understood. A certain combo may produce better accuracy but you might not now why. The general reason for fast powder/light bullet and slow powder/heavy bullet is because of the physics of acceleration. A lighter bullet is easier to accelerate quickly than a heavier one so a faster burning powder is usually more optimal. A heavier bullet cannot be accelerated as quickly without using more force, IE: pressure. A very fast burning powder used with a heavier bullet (above 62 grains) will create higher pressure and could be potentially dangerous.
Anyway, what is this about using one kind of powder for lighter bullets and another for heavier ones?
Why is this the case?
Is there not a powder that will work universally?
A very fast burning powder used with a heavier bullet (above 62 grains) will create higher pressure and could be potentially dangerous.
This is bizarre... because I took some H322 which is in the medium to fast range... and loaded it a good bit over max behind 77 gr SMKs.
I don't have the data in front of me but it was promising in the accuracy department... approached Mk262 velocity, and didn't show any swipes or other pressure indications.
I haven't revisited that load because the max .223 published load is so good, I don't want to leave it. But it was interesting.
I used to use AA2230 exclusively for .223 in my AR's, but during the recent un-pleasantries, I couldn't get AA2230, so I tried BLC-2 which I've never used before, and was pleasantly surprised. I got excellent results with it using 62 grain FMJ bullets.
Just for clarification, greater than 62 grains is just the arbitrary limit for what I would call a heavy bullet, no magic number or anything. I should also put more emphasis on could. I know the pressure will be higher; maybe only a few psi, maybe several hundred. Without the testing equipment its hard to say how much. I agree, its probably unlikely to cause issues but I think the potential is still there.
This is bizarre... because I took some H322 which is in the medium to fast range... and loaded it a good bit over max behind 77 gr SMKs.
I don't have the data in front of me but it was promising in the accuracy department... approached Mk262 velocity, and didn't show any swipes or other pressure indications.
I haven't revisited that load because the max .223 published load is so good, I don't want to leave it. But it was interesting.
I know what you're saying and I'm not arguing your point at all.... and I'll be the first to admit that the H322 & heavies goes against general theory.... but it works damned good.
There are some aspects of powder/bullet combos that aren't easily identified or understood. A certain combo may produce better accuracy but you might not now why. The general reason for fast powder/light bullet and slow powder/heavy bullet is because of the physics of acceleration. A lighter bullet is easier to accelerate quickly than a heavier one so a faster burning powder is usually more optimal. A heavier bullet cannot be accelerated as quickly without using more force, IE: pressure. A very fast burning powder used with a heavier bullet (above 62 grains) will create higher pressure and could be potentially dangerous.
This is the broad answer that I was looking for that makes sense to me.
Thank you.
I got my Dillon primarily to load .223 here soon, but I want to do 30/06 (M-1 rifle), 7.62x54R, 8x57 Mauser, .303 Brit, and 7.5 Swiss. That's why I'm learning about all the powders right now.
Is it a bad idea to just pick a universal powder for all of these, like maybe IMR 4895 or 4064?
Here is the other thing--I've been watching a lot of Youtube vids on how to reload, and I see the people in half of these vids bitching about metering stick powders in their Dillons, and then I see the other half actually loading with those powders just fine. WTF?
One more thing, I was looking through Brian Eno's site to see which shell plates and funnels I'll need, and most of those large centerfire cartridges I mentioned used funnel B-13587 except for 8mm Mauser. But 8mm is pretty "similar" to all of those calibers, so WTF is up with that?
I don't think a 'universal' powder is a bad idea but you would be limiting yourself when it comes to developing the most accurate loads. You would also be limiting the volume you could load simply because of availability. If your universal powder is out of stock you're SOL. I will say it does take time and effort when dealing with lots of different powders and load recipes. Lots of machine setup, sorting, note-taking, and data-digesting - especially if you have a chrono. If you're not constantly seeking improved accuracy, having a universal powder that you like which works for multiple calibers can help you load higher volume.
The biggest 'stick' of stick powder I've loaded with the 550B is H322 and I was perfectly fine with how it metered. I don't remember what kind of variation there was but it couldn't have been more than +/- 0.15 grains (The 550B's powder measure is advertised as producing +/- 0.1 grains with ball powder). I haven't tried anything gnarley like Varget. I think it just comes down to how anal someone is when it comes to charge weight consistency.
I can't speak to anything other .223 reloading but I think if you get the caliber conversion kit for each caliber you want to load it comes with the powder die, funnel, shell plate, and locator buttons you need.
Is it a bad idea to just pick a universal powder for all of these, like maybe IMR 4895 or 4064?
Here is the other thing--I've been watching a lot of Youtube vids on how to reload, and I see the people in half of these vids bitching about metering stick powders in their Dillons, and then I see the other half actually loading with those powders just fine. WTF?
One more thing, I was looking through Brian Eno's site to see which shell plates and funnels I'll need, and most of those large centerfire cartridges I mentioned used funnel B-13587 except for 8mm Mauser. But 8mm is pretty "similar" to all of those calibers, so WTF is up with that?
I know what you're saying and I'm not arguing your point at all.... and I'll be the first to admit that the H322 & heavies goes against general theory.... but it works damned good.
I use 4 different powders depending on bullet weight, speed, etc. RL-15, RL-7, Varget, and 8208. They are in short supply around here but there's tons of H322. It seems pretty standard on this forum but nobody uses it around these parts. I might have to try it.
I use 4 different powders depending on bullet weight, speed, etc. RL-15, RL-7, Varget, and 8208. They are in short supply around here but there's tons of H322. It seems pretty standard on this forum but nobody uses it around these parts. I might have to try it.
Oh man. Ditch that RL and live large with H322. :p
Oh man. Ditch that RL and live large with H322. :p
No way am I going to ditch the RL. I heard that that's the powder that the Special Forces use when they reload.:D
No way am I going to ditch the RL. I heard that that's the powder that the Special Forces use when they reload.:D
That's true. :p
JohnsMyName
07-25-13, 15:46
One of the 'silver linings' of all this hoarding of ammo, ARs, components, etc., is that since it has been harder to find my pet .223/.308 etc. powders, that I have had to buy whatever is on the shelf.
My preferences for .223 are 748 and Varget, with 8208 and CFE223 thrown in. However, I have now worked up loads using 4064, 3031, RL17, 335, 322, AA2520, and more.
It made me realize that there are a lot of good powders out there, and to be a little more versatile. I feel like i have loads for a lot more powders now that I am happy with, and don't much care what's on the shelf. Plus, with powder like RL17, which is pretty slow for the .223, virtually no load data exists for .223, and not really made for it at all, my interest in load development has been 'reborn'.
I have a customer and range friend who won't load anything but 4064 for his .308, and is now out of powder for it because, well, I don't know why exactly. But he's out of powder, and I'm sitting on 40+ pounds of just rifle powder because I just bought whatever came in. His loss....
What weight bullets with the W748? As I understand it is slower burning and better suited for lighter bullets. Also have you noticed it being temp sensitive?
I also agree that there are lots of useful powders out there that are ignored for the 223.
For example, I found an old tin of IMR 3031 that must have been 20 years old. I had a bunch of 40 gr V-maxes lying around which actually turned out to be a good bullet weight for a faster powder like 3031. After loading some up I was pleasantly surprised by some excellent accuracy, which I did not expect. Now I will say that 3031 does not meter very well out of my RCBS uniflow, and it can sometimes be a bit tricky to pour into the 223 case neck. In this case a ball powder would be much better.
BUT - I got it for free and it keeps me shooting! Sometimes the enemy of good is better - an adage that can be aptly applied to the obsessive compulsive habits of many reloaders.
Alaska3006
07-29-13, 09:04
Surplus the new WC 842 would be nice
I prefer heavier bullets 62gr to 77 gr in my SCAR with 1:7 twist
TAC , Varget and Reloader 15 get my vote.
Ramshot TAC has the best loading data for 5.56
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