Federal (Independence) XM193i

[5.56Spartan]

I was able to score a few rounds of Independence XM193i recently, but haven't seen much about it.

Supposedly it is Federal XM193, but the components are shipped to Israel where they are made and then shipped back here under the Independence label.

Anybody have experience with this ammo? Good, bad, or the same as the Lake City XM193?

[Zane1844]

I was able to score a few rounds of Independence XM193i recently, but haven't seen much about it.

Supposedly it is Federal XM193, but the components are shipped to Israel where they are made and then shipped back here under the Independence label.

Anybody have experience with this ammo? Good, bad, or the same as the Lake City XM193?

It was good when I used it.

[jmnielsen]

Had zero issues when I used it. Shot about 200 rounds.

[yhmspecter]

I have shot about 500 rounds. The brass is not LC, and the annealing is different..It is also quite hot as far as velocity other then that it works well. I'm wondering if IMI has anything to do with it

[PA PATRIOT]

From the info I received from Federal the IMI is manufactured in Israel from virgin materials produced in Israel.

The IMI velocity is roughly 70fps faster then Federals M-193 when shot out of a 20" Colt HBar averaged over 100rds fired of each. Also accuracy with the IMI is slightly better in my AR's with 100rd groups being 1/4 inch smaller on average.

I also sectioned a bullet of both and it appears under magnification that the IMI jacket is thinner then the standard Federal M-193. When I have the chance I will have a precision metal grinder friend mike out both jackets to see what the difference is.

I would have to give it a recommended buy for those who have a true chambered 5.56 rifle as the IMI is a bit hotter and may have issues with out of spec chambers.

[AngryBeaver]

From the info I received from Federal the IMI is manufactured in Israel from virgin materials produced in Israel.

The IMI velocity is roughly 70fps faster then Federals M-193 when shot out of a 20" Colt HBar averaged over 100rds fired of each. Also accuracy with the IMI is slightly better in my AR's with 100rd groups being 1/4 inch smaller on average.

I also sectioned a bullet of both and it appears under magnification that the IMI jacket is thinner then the standard Federal M-193. When I have the chance I will have a precision metal grinder friend mike out both jackets to see what the difference is.

I would have to give it a recommended buy for those who have a true chambered 5.56 rifle as the IMI is a bit hotter and may have issues with out of spec chambers.

I have found this to be true also in both my OA pistol and my bushmaster. I got about 1k rounds of it and blew thru it until the last few boxes I saw the imported by federal from Israel. I would recommend it also

[Traveshamockery]

Supposedly it is Federal XM193, but the components are shipped to Israel where they are made and then shipped back here under the Independence label.

This sounds really unlikely.

[filthy phil]

We get that here in texass from academy $10/20 rds. 1 box max/day.
I shot some in my 6920 it was gtg

[5.56Spartan]

Thanks for the feedback!

Sounds like I got some good ammo.

[5.56Spartan]

This sounds really unlikely.

I agree; hence the reason I put it into my description. However, that is almost a direct quote from the President of a major online operation. And we all know that because you read it on the Internet or heard it at a gun shop, it must be true. :rolleyes:

Based upon the comment that it is not LC brass as noted in an earlier reply, and thinking of the shear cost of sending containers of brass and bullets to Israel, I am likely to believe it is virgin components being made and assembled in Israel.

I remember IMI used to make the Q3131a ammunition that was imported and sold under the Winchester name. I also vaguely remember others making similar comments about Q3131a being a little hotter and having different annealing marks.

It would be interesting to compare the XM193i and the Q3131a to see if they are actually the same ammo.

[PA PATRIOT]

It would be interesting to compare the XM193i and the Q3131a to see if they are actually the same ammo.

Some say its the same but I have notice that the current 2013 IMI M-193 has a different crimp then the Q3131a.

FYI,

IMI is approved and qualified to produce ammo for the US military.
It's about the only NON-USA manufacturer that the US govt will buy ammo from.

http://www.imi-israel.com/home/doc.aspx?mCatID=68555

http://www.imi-israel.com/vault/documents/5.56mm_m193.pdf

[markm]

That ammo is scortching hot. I bought a box to try out and ran it through Pappabears 20 inch Colt Hbar. The stuff was loaded too hot for my tastes.

I shot only 5 rounds of the box I had... and pulled down the rest. Saved the brass for stash ammo. Used the bullets and reduced powder for practice ammo.

[5.56Spartan]

Just an FYI -

Streichers (policehq.com) just posted some on their website.

$290 for 500rd case
http://www.policehq.com/products/fc-xm193i

Here is the spec's they list.

• CALIBER: 5.56 mm, manufactured at the Israel Military Industries (IMI)
• CASE: Brass (Copper Alloy No. 260)
• BULLET: 55 gr. FMJ Boat-Tail
• PRIMER: M41 Operating Range: (-40 degrees to +125 degrees F)
• PRIMER SEALANT: Water resistant lacquer
• CASE MOUTH SEALANT: Yes
• CASE KNURL: No
• HEADSTAMP: Each loaded cartridge shall be headstamped with the manufacturer's symbol and year of manufacture
• ACCURACY: 3-10round groups not to exceed 1.00" mean radius maximum average at 100 yards
• INSTRUMENTAL VELOCITY: 3165 +/- 40 FPS (78 feet from muzzle) using a 5.56 test barrel, 20" long
• ENERGY: 1223 Ft-Lbs. at 78’
• CHAMBER PRESSURE: Piezotronic maximum average per 10 rounds - 55000 PSI in 5.56 test barrel (case mouth location)
• BULLET PULL: Minimum individual 35 lbs.
• PROPELLANT DETECTION: 100% mechanical and/or electrical detection of propellant levels within the cartridge
• VISUAL INSPECTION: 100% visual inspection of finished cartridges prior to packaging
• WARNING: For use in standard 5.56 mm chambers. Do not use in non-standard 5.56 chambers.
• PACKAGING: 20 Rounds per carton. 25 cartons per 500 round case.

[PA PATRIOT]

I have not seen any signs of pressure in my true 5.56 chamber AR's.

Also since IMI has what appears to be a thinner jacket then Federal's M-193 and from most accounts higher velocity this may allow the IMI to fragment decently.

If anything the Israeli's have always made high quality ammunition.

[5.56Spartan]

Got notice that Streicher's has gotten some of this in stock.

Here is the spec's they posted on their site: (ymmv)

• CALIBER: 5.56 mm, manufactured at the Israel Military Industries (IMI)
• CASE: Brass (Copper Alloy No. 260)
• BULLET: 55 gr. FMJ Boat-Tail
• PRIMER: M41 Operating Range: (-40 degrees to +125 degrees F)
• PRIMER SEALANT: Water resistant lacquer
• CASE MOUTH SEALANT: Yes
• CASE KNURL: No
• HEADSTAMP: Each loaded cartridge shall be headstamped with the manufacturer's symbol and year of manufacture
• ACCURACY: 3-10round groups not to exceed 1.00" mean radius maximum average at 100 yards
• INSTRUMENTAL VELOCITY: 3165 +/- 40 FPS (78 feet from muzzle) using a 5.56 test barrel, 20" long
• ENERGY: 1223 Ft-Lbs. at 78’
• CHAMBER PRESSURE: Piezotronic maximum average per 10 rounds - 55000 PSI in 5.56 test barrel (case mouth location)
• BULLET PULL: Minimum individual 35 lbs.
• PROPELLANT DETECTION: 100% mechanical and/or electrical detection of propellant levels within the cartridge
• VISUAL INSPECTION: 100% visual inspection of finished cartridges prior to packaging
• WARNING: For use in standard 5.56 mm chambers. Do not use in non-standard 5.56 chambers.
• PACKAGING: 20 Rounds per carton. 25 cartons per 500 round case.

[markm]

If anything the Israeli's have always made high quality ammunition.

That's funny! You should have seen the hundreds of rounds of Izzy I pulled down for Iraqgunz. Some of the worst ammo I've ever seen. Isreal is very capable of making crap. Kinks, crimps and split necks and shoulders. Crushed mouths, etc. Absolute garbage.

That said, the Independence ammo was much nicer looking and not along those lines. Just loaded too hot for my tastes. I forget what it Chrono'd.... I don't think it was dangerous. Just senselessly hot ammo.

[tacoops]

My local gun shop is having a sale tomorrow, 500 rounds of independence 5.56 for $200. Been scheming all day on how to come up with enough money. Shot a few boxes of it last week through my 6920 without any problems.

[jdc.]

My local gun shop is having a sale tomorrow, 500 rounds of independence 5.56 for $200. Been scheming all day on how to come up with enough money. Shot a few boxes of it last week through my 6920 without any problems.

Damn I would jump on that like the IRS to conservatives.


Sent from my iPhone.

[tacoops]

Damn I would jump on that like the IRS to conservatives.


Sent from my iPhone.

Done :D

[ST911]

There are known and documented issues with the Federal-Independence XM193i. Here is a thread with additional information, including velocities and lot numbers for reference. https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?153680-Update-Independence-5-56-XM193I

[Uni-Vibe]

Maybe somebody can run it through a chrono and find out. M193 spec is 3250 out of a 20" tube.


ETA: I just saw the other thread. This stuff is 193 velocity out of a 16" barrel? Interesting to chrono it through the twenty-incher. Hot stuff indeed.

[markm]

Maybe somebody can run it through a chrono and find out. M193 spec is 3250 out of a 20" tube.


ETA: I just saw the other thread. This stuff is 193 velocity out of a 16" barrel? Interesting to chrono it through the twenty-incher. Hot stuff indeed.

I ran some out of a 20 inch Colt. I forget the exact velocity, but I stopped after 5 rounds because the numbers and the case head swipes were a CLUE.

[MichaelDiggs]

I ran some out of a 20 inch Colt. I forget the exact velocity, but I stopped after 5 rounds because the numbers and the case head swipes were a CLUE.


I have a Bravo Company REECE rifle chambered in 5.56 and I cannot use these rounds in that rifle. Federal wants me to send them 40 rounds for inspection. And Bravo Company rifles are very high quality made, and their BCG's are high pressure tested, MPI, 8620 Steel, Chrome Lined, Full Auto Carrier. This is the BCG other companies judge themselves against. Just read around online, nothing but the best about BCM's carrier group. Then to hear it jam with a 55 grain 5.56 round? Doesn't sound right at all. Even when I called BCM they were very surprised and pretty much stood behind their product and said it was probably the ammunition, BUT was willing to inspect my rifle if I sent it to them. Not just yet. Waiting to hear back from Federal on the testing of those 40 rounds I sent them.

http://www.diggsnet.com

[mack7.62]

Not all lots seem to be as hot as some, and it is still being sold and no stories of blown up rifles. I am curious if it is still being made or if the stuff still for sale is is the 2013-14 stuff? If I had some I would shoot it in a beater as long as it was not popping primers, don't think I would use it in a prized rifle.

[ST911]

Recommend you pass. For other Federal/Vista options, try the AE223N.

[turnburglar]

I will pass on independance M193 at any price. You couldnt give it to me.

I have had more than a few boxes from a few lots give me an insane amount of popped primers. Stuff was WAAAYY too hot in my opinion. The popped primers even started locking up the guns. Swore off the stuff and havent had a stoppage since.

[markm]

I will pass on independance M193 at any price. You couldnt give it to me.

I'd take it for free all day long. But I'd pull the bullets, drop the charge 5%, and reload the bullets and powder in used brass. Keep the new brass for defensive loads.