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Nightvisionary
06-16-13, 10:53
I got my hands on Noslers new addition to their reloading component line, the .224 caliber 64 grain Bonded Solid Base bullet. From what I understand this is the same bullet used in the Winchester Ranger 64GR JSP, RA556B which is on Doc GKR's recommended list here https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881

I used Varget since it is what I have on hand in a decent quantity. Nosler recommends a starting load for Varget of 23 grains with 25 grains as the max load. Hodgdon shows the max load for 63 grain bullets at 26.4 grains of Varget so I decided to start at 24.7 then progress to 25.0, 25.3, and 25.6 grains. Using once fired Speer brass I loaded 10 rounds at each charge weight, 5 rounds with Remington 7 ½ and 5 with CCI 450 primers. All bullets were seated un-crimped, just below the cannelure to 2.210 OAL. My Speer brass is all a bit short varying between 1.740 and 1.7480. If your brass is 1.750, 2.210 will be right on the cannelure.

The carbine used has a White Oak Armament 16 inch free float 1/8 stainless barrel with a 223 Wylde chamber, Geisselle SD-E trigger, and Leupold MK 4/MRT 1.5-5x20 optic(Actual magnification is 1.5x4.5).

I concluded that Nosler’s load data for their bullet was right on the money. 24.7 grains of Varget with CCI 450’s delivered excellent accuracy, low standard deviation, and good velocity. 25 grains also had great accuracy and higher velocity but the S.D. was a bit high. 25.3 started showing mild pressure signs and at 25.6 I popped a primer and had extractor swipes on most of the others.

The targets below illustrate how a simple change in primers can have a significant effect on accuracy. After reading some previous reports of mediocre accuracy with these bullets I would have been quite satisfied with 2 MOA in a bonded bullet. To get .6 MOA in a carbine with a 4 ½ power scope, to me is outstanding. I will likely stick with 24.7 gr. of Varget with the CCI 450’s. The muzzle velocity is identical to SSA’s offering with the same bullet and delivers expansion out to 350 yards.

B.C. .231. All loads using Varget and Speer once fired brass. 2.210 COAL, chronograph distance 12 feet, Target distance 100 yards:

24.7 Gr./ Rem 7.5 primer- 2777,2789,2804,2777,2797. Avg Vel. 2788, SD 11.3, 2.16 MOA

24.7 Gr./CCI 450- 2795,2800,2801,2801,2812. Avg. Vel. 2801, SD 6.2, 0.59 MOA.

25.0 Gr./Rem 7.5- 2796,2823,2844,2846,2842. Avg. Vel. 2830, SD 21.2, 1.4 MOA.

25.0 Gr./CCI 450- 2831,2882,2867,2860,2908. Avg Vel. 2869, SD 28.36, 0.611 MOA.

25.3 Gr./Rem 7.5- 2803,2862,2850,2865,2834. Avg Vel 2842, SD 25.37, 1.136 MOA. Mild pressure signs.

25.3 Gr./CCI 450- 2874,2902,2866,2885,2831. Avg. Vel 2871, SD 26.40, 1.328 MOA. Mild pressure signs.

25.6 Gr./Rem 7.5- 2933,2909,2885,2933,2889. Avg. Vel. 2909, SD 23.04, 2.126 MOA. Flat primers & ejector marks.

25.6 Gr./CCI 450- 2949,2994,2900,2885,2916. Avg. Vel 2928, SD 43, 1.567 MOA. 1 blown primer, ejector marks. excessive pressure.

http://i43.tinypic.com/3128r48.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/yc7wm.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/25f15w4.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2ut6kd5.jpg

Leonidas24
06-16-13, 11:34
Awesome write up. I've yet to get out and do a thorough accuracy test and record velocities, but I've loaded several of these using 8208 XBR and CFE 223.

Case: Virgin Winchester '13 Q3131 brass
Primer: Win SR
Powder: CFE223
Charge weight: 25.4, 25.6, 25.8, 26 gr; 15 rds each

Case: Virgin Lake City '13
Primer: Whatever LC uses to prime their brass. CCI #41 equivalent?
Powder: 8208 XBR
Charge weight: 22.2, 22.4, 22.6, 22.8; 15 rds each

The first 5 rounds of each sample were used in an indoor range with all lights off for flash testing. All loads exhibited no excessive flash, and in fact, no discernible flash from behind the gun or 90 degrees to the side. The rifle was equipped with a standard A2 flash hider. I'll try to set up a camera in front of the muzzle near the target to record what it looks like from downrange.

Pressure signs were minimal even with the higher loads. I can still go .2 more grains with the 8208 and I need to review my notes and the book on the CFE223 but I don't have it in front of me.

As soon as I can borrow a chronograph I'll get a velocity report and see what the accuracy is like.

ETA: The barrel used was a 14.7" FN CHF.

MontePR
06-16-13, 11:47
My only gripe I have with this bullet is the shitty cannelure it has.

polymorpheous
06-16-13, 12:08
You sir, are my new hero!
Thank you very much for this write up. :thank_you2:

There a couple of other members here playing around with this bullet.
I hope that they can post some of their findings also.

waffentomas
06-16-13, 12:44
I have been playing around with this bullet for a couple of months.

The recipe I have settled on is: 26.0 gr Varget, CCI 400 primers, LC once fired brass, sorted and weighed, trimmed and chamferred.

I had similar pressure issues with the 450s as I got into the mid 25gr loads, and so pulled back and started over with the 400s, which worked out well. There are some pressure signs with my load but nothing worrisome. There is a very mild compression as I seat the bullet, but it hasn't caused any accuracy issues.

Sorry I don't have any pictures or anything to show, as i didn't realize there would be a lot of interest in the bullet. I'm not sure about the 'shitty cannelure' comment, as my lot has an appropriate cannelure. If they were factory seconds, perhaps this is why.

I am firing these through a 6920 SOCOM with iron sights or EOTech 553. Accuracy has been acceptable, with no stringing

I'm getting a velocity average of 2909, SD 12, spreads of around 30.

DocGKR
06-16-13, 13:02
Well done!

WC 2-3
06-16-13, 14:20
Looks like the 450's have better velocity and accuracy than the 7.5's. I used the Rems in my initial development. I have a lot of 400's so I'll see how they perform.

fz1boxer
06-16-13, 18:17
thanks for the good info

VaeVictis
06-16-13, 22:38
Your timing couldn't have been any better, I just picked up some of these bullets and planned to try them with varget.

markm
06-17-13, 08:18
You S.D. lovers should try those WOLFIE primers. ;)

polymorpheous
06-17-13, 10:00
You S.D. lovers should try those WOLFIE primers. ;)

Can't find them!

Ryno12
06-17-13, 10:05
Can't find them!

Gotta hit some of our local gun shows. I've been seeing a vendor that has a shit pot full of 'em. I don't remember the price but I do remember thinking they were a little on the high side. I'm sure the same yo-yo's up by me, are down by you.

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polymorpheous
06-17-13, 10:32
Gotta hit some of our local gun shows. I've been seeing a vendor that has a shit pot full of 'em. I don't remember the price but I do remember thinking they were a little on the high side. I'm sure the same yo-yo's up by me, are down by you.

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Oh God no!
Not there...:fie:

Ryno12
06-17-13, 10:37
Oh God no!
Not there...:fie:

:D
Gotta ask yourself, "how bad do you want 'em?"

BTW, the kid pop yet?

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polymorpheous
06-17-13, 10:42
:D
Gotta ask yourself, "how bad do you want 'em?"

BTW, the kid pop yet?

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10 days past due.

Ryno12
06-17-13, 11:03
10 days past due.

:eek:

Keep me posted. Good luck with everything.

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WC 2-3
06-17-13, 21:57
Reviewing my load data, I used Tula SRM in my loads, not Rem 7 1/2.

Nightvisionary
06-18-13, 09:22
Reviewing my load data, I used Tula SRM in my loads, not Rem 7 1/2.

Did you record velocity, standard deviation, accuracy results?

WC 2-3
06-18-13, 18:55
Yes I did

WC 2-3
06-18-13, 20:14
TAC/Tula SRM

24.3
2768
2792
2805
2802
err

24.6
2765
2789
2811
2808
2811

24.9
2873
2870
2841
2793
2861
No TAC loads shot worth a damn for me.

N135

23 1.5"
2812
2832
2807
2815
2808

23.3 1.2"
2818
2809
2811
2807
2816

23.6 1"
2861
2838
2824
2843
2834

23.9 1"
2879
2885
2873
2877
2880

WC 2-3
06-18-13, 20:28
AR-Comp

22.2 1"
2730
2735
2743
2777
2721

22.5 1"
2740
2749
2723
2712
2764

22.8 1.9"
2764
2754
2775
2769
2751

23.1 1"
2761
2747
2737
2753
2737

23.4 1.5"
2791
2780
2781
2782
2775

8208XBR

21.8 .8"
2649
2642
2663
2658
2656

22.1 1.26"
2668
2676
2648
2683
2634

22.4 .70"
2692
2694
2681
2688
2712

22.7 .80"
2718
2717
2720
2707
2718

23 1"
2775
2741
2750
2744
2774

All loads just initial development for a base line on what powders to continue with and which to eliminate. TAC is the only one that was shit. The last two loads from N135 started kicking primers. AR-C and XBR weren't showing any pressure signs so those will see more attention.

Shot from a 16" BCM middy CL barrel. About 6,000 ASL 65 degrees and partly cloudy...(accounting for some of the chrony errors I was seeing)

Nightvisionary
06-22-13, 05:59
All loads just initial development for a base line on what powders to continue with and which to eliminate. TAC is the only one that was shit. The last two loads from N135 started kicking primers. AR-C and XBR weren't showing any pressure signs so those will see more attention.

Shot from a 16" BCM middy CL barrel. About 6,000 ASL 65 degrees and partly cloudy...(accounting for some of the chrony errors I was seeing)

That's great accuracy from a chrome lined barrel. I have played with TAC as well. It metered so well and gave great velocity. I just wanted it to work so bad. Like you I experienced piss poor accuracy with it.

Ironhead1*
07-01-13, 18:14
Has anyone tried this bullet with H322? I have a few bullets arriving tomorrow, and I can not find any load info in my manuals.

CaptainN8
07-01-13, 18:31
I'm thinking aa2230 will be great in my 16 inch colt at sea level.

waffentomas
07-01-13, 18:40
Has anyone tried this bullet with H322? I have a few bullets arriving tomorrow, and I can not find any load info in my manuals.

Hodgdon's site has a starting load of 20gr for a 63gr Sierra, 22gr as max. Probably a good place to start.

Maybe start at 19.0 or 19.5 just to be safe.

It's what I'd do.

Tom

Ironhead1*
07-02-13, 22:09
Hodgdon's site has a starting load of 20gr for a 63gr Sierra, 22gr as max. Probably a good place to start.

Maybe start at 19.0 or 19.5 just to be safe.

It's what I'd do.

Tom

Thanks Tom.
I wasn't sure if I could use data from a different weight bullet.

BravoGolf59
07-03-13, 20:05
Hey Ironhead, FYI, that was a recommendation from Nosler, I believe. It is not standard reloading practice. I don't know how experienced you are at reloading, but with 2 posts, I thought it should be mentioned.

ubet
01-31-16, 23:33
......

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