Obesity declared a disease by the American Medical Association. [Archive]

Army Chief

06-19-13, 15:50

Yet another attempt to redefine a moral defect as a medical disease; after all, nobody wants to turn on the federal funding tap for a character flaw, but a quantifiable medical condition opens up all kinds of new possibilities. All of them are monetary. Most of them are unnecessary.

Merely my opinion. As always, I reserve the right to be completely misinformed. ;)

AC

Hmac

06-19-13, 15:55

This announcement will certainly bring out the moral outrage from the non-obese.

Hunter Rose

06-19-13, 15:59

Army Chief, I completely agree that its just about the money. If obesity is classified as a disease, insurance and federal dollars can then be made available to fight it.

It's just completely asininine, I am not a doctor but I can cure all cases of obesity right now, so all "diseased" obese people listen up:

EAT NO MORE THAN 1000 CALORIES A DAY UNTIL YOU ARE CURED!

If only real diseases could be fixed this easily like Cancer, Alzheimers, or Huntingtons.

Alaskapopo

06-19-13, 16:13

Moose-Knuckle

06-19-13, 16:15

That is a big harsh. A disease no but a moral defect.

Gluttony is a "moral" issue.

Personal responsibility is a bygone concept.

Army Chief

06-19-13, 16:28

That is a big harsh. A disease no but a moral defect. Damn so me being a fat person makes me immoral by that logic.
Pat

We're likely just getting hung up in the semantics. I could have just as easiy said character weakness or willpower deficit, but those didn't aliterate as readily with "medical disease." ;)

I'm not saying that gluttony is "immoral" in quite the same vein as a sexual or criminal transgression; merely tying it to individual choices and decisions that probably went the wrong way at some point.

Notwithstanding the obvious innate tendencies that some have toward really getting pulled in over their heads, I tend to view alcoholism the same way. Choices made, consequences faced. It certainly gets more complicated than that in a great many cases, and it definitely becomes a medical issue at some point, but it all begins with one bad decision, no?

AC

Hmac

06-19-13, 16:38

It's just completely asininine, I am not a doctor but I can cure all cases of obesity right now, so all "diseased" obese people listen up:

EAT NO MORE THAN 1000 CALORIES A DAY UNTIL YOU ARE CURED!

How about depression? Or PTSD? Can't we just say "c'mon...buck up. Get over it. Just choose to be happy".

Army Chief

06-19-13, 17:10

How about depression? Or PTSD? Can't we just say "c'mon...buck up. Get over it. Just choose to be happy".

We're admittedly crossing over into a minefield, but you correctly infer that most serious over-eating (particularly in the gentler sex) seems to be tied to mental imbalances of whatever sort, especially depression.

I think what the majority of folks will subscribe to is, yes, when you're struggling mightily to overcome a problem like this, there needs to be some kind of medical intervention in most cases; that said, problems such as obesity would never reach their current levels if folks exercised a bit more control over their lives, and rooted out some key enablers. We have an epidemic on our hands here that is no more legitimate than the idea that "most" kids today struggle with Attention Deficit Disorder.

You may or may not struggle with depression in your life (or PTSD), depending upon where you've been or what you've seen, but almost no one finds themselves morbidly obese as a result of factors that were totally outside of their own control. They simply chose temporary happiness and disregarded the potential for permanent pain.

I'm being rather clinical here, and not disregarding the associated mental battles that are often present, but I've also lived abroad for a good part of my life, and I know better than to accept the idea that Americans are fat because of some insidious unknown contagion. We are fat because we eat too much and do too little. When it gets bad enough, we get depressed and eat more ... but it really should never have reached that stage for most.

AC

GeorgiaBoy

06-19-13, 17:20

Gluttony is a "moral" issue.

Gluttony and obesity/overweightedness do not necessarily go hand-in-hand.

Hmac

06-19-13, 17:26

You may or may not struggle with depression in your life (or PTSD, depending upon where you've been or what you've seen), but almost no one finds themselves morbidly obese as a result of factors that were totally outside of their own control. They simply chose temporary happiness and disregarded the potential for permanent pain.

AC

Very complex issue, I grant you. I see and treat a lot of people with morbid obesity and the influences of genetics, environment, and behavior all play a role in that condition/disease in varying degrees. In your line of work you probably see a lot of PTSD. Do all soldiers react in the same way to the stresses of combat?

Moose-Knuckle

06-19-13, 17:36

Gluttony and obesity/overweightedness do not necessarily go hand-in-hand.

While AC hit upon the fact that over eating can be a symptom of underlining mental disorders I contest that the exploding numbers in our populace who are morbidly obese is more a cause of three factors; one the vast majority of people are ignorant of basic nutrition, two they live a sedentary lifestyle, and three the actual food they are gorging themselves on is nothing but junk.

This is reminiscent of those people who bring lawsuits against the likes of McDonalds claiming they are the reason their overweight and not their own hand to mouth action.

jmnielsen

06-19-13, 17:41

Disease:

A disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.

So I guess by definition obesity would be a disease. One brought on by nutritional imbalance (among some other things). If you think about it though, that would make a lot of things "diseases" that aren't considered diseases at all. How do you define what "incorrectly functioning" means? If someone had PTSD would that be the "disease" and obesity be a risk factor? I feel that declaring obesity a disease is a MAJOR mistake. It took the blame off of the person and put it on the "disease." So should I eat donuts all days and drink pop all day, get obese, and then get disability because my disease is keeping me from working? This may be harsh but I would be that the majority of obese people have nothing and no one to blame but themselves.

khc3

06-19-13, 17:41

Obesity would seem to be a symptom, or perhaps a precursor to more health problems down the road. Obviously, being overweight, absent anything else, is no more a "disease" than being short.

Identifying personal behavior that can lead to health problems as a "disease" is interesting, though. I'm sure we will soon hear that homosexual activity will be considered a "disease," given how many health problems IT can lead to.

Oh wait...

The_War_Wagon

06-19-13, 17:45

Expect an ALL-OUT assault by nanny-state doctors, on your fundamental right to own... silverware... :rolleyes:

misanthropist

06-19-13, 17:47

How about depression? Or PTSD? Can't we just say "c'mon...buck up. Get over it. Just choose to be happy".

But no one is saying "just choose to be thin". That's not possible.

You can, however, "just choose to eat less" and that WILL fix 99.9% of cases of obesity.

It may not be a moral failure, but it definitely is a personal responsibility issue.

If somebody makes terrible decisions as a driver, day after day for years on end, blowing stop signs and cutting people off and in the process dinging up their car so that after a few years it's visibly trashed, nobody hesitates for one second to say "this person is a god damned moron and someone should ser that car on fire before they crash it with their children inside.".

If somebody makes terrible decisions with food day after day for years on end, eating huge meals and fattening junk and in the process wrecking their body and making it visibly trashed, I'm supposed to say what? You're perfectly intelligent, you just caught the fats from someone?

No. You don't want to be fat, I don't blame you. I hated being fat. That's why I got strict about my diet and fixed my shit.

Don't want to be fat? Eat way less. Problem solved.

Flawless, sub-moa fit and finish...all day long.

JoshNC

06-19-13, 17:48

I actually do believe that obesity is a disease. Yes, there are behavioral issues that directly cause obesity. But being obese actually is a disease. It confers major increased risk of cardiovascular, pulmonary, endocrine, and neurovascular issues, is associated with increased intra/perioperative morbidity and mortality.

Making it a disease should not, however, give license for obese people to overlook their causal role. As Hmac stated, it is a multi factorial problem. With that said, behavior and lifestyle are mostly to blame for obesity.

Hmac

06-19-13, 17:55

You can, however, "just choose to eat less" and that WILL fix 99.9% of cases of obesity.

So it's just that easy huh?

Alpha Sierra

06-19-13, 18:01

So it's just that easy huh?

It most certainly is. Unless you lack self control, in which case it is a moral failing.

khc3

06-19-13, 18:03

It confers major increased risk of cardiovascular, pulmonary, endocrine, and neurovascular issues, is associated with increased intra/perioperative morbidity and mortality.

Yes, it's a behavior-induced risk factor for disease, as you say.

Obviously, some people get to the point where they cannot realistically solve their obesity problem on their own without medical help. But they weren't born that way. There were years of adding a couple pounds here and there, where simple lifestyle changes, over time, would have cured this "disease."

I know, I've lost significant amounts of weight, twice in my life. My wife hasn't.

And I know how much she eats vs. how much she thinks she eats. She was convinced it was a thyroid problem, but tests said no. I told her, once, "Honey, you eat more than I do (I'm 6'7", 240lbs now, down from 300)."

She has been unwilling to deny herself that extra 100% of calories each day she indulges in, but could easily do without.

Moose-Knuckle

06-19-13, 18:06

So it's just that easy huh?

Well that and getting off your ass.

khc3

06-19-13, 18:10

So it's just that easy huh?

I've lost 60 lbs in less than a year, while doing almost no exercise, and with no radical changes to my diet.

Well, the changes in my diet WERE radical: I stopped eating crap, I stopped eating two helpings of crap, I stopped eating stuff from boxes, I reduced portion sizes in half, knowing I could always get more. Now I rarely do.

It's not fun, it takes time, no one notices unless they haven't seen you in a while. BUt in the vast majority of "obesity" cases, eating less will, eventually, solve the problem.

JoshNC

06-19-13, 18:10

Yes, it's a behavior-induced risk factor for disease, as you say.

Obviously, some people get to the point where they cannot realistically solve their obesity problem on their own without medical help. But they weren't born that way. There were years of adding a couple pounds here and there, where simple lifestyle changes, over time, would have cured this "disease."

I know, I've lost significant amounts of weight, twice in my life. My wife hasn't.

And I know how much she eats vs. how much she thinks she eats. She was convinced it was a thyroid problem, but tests said no. I told her, once, "Honey, you eat more than I do (I'm 6'7", 240lbs now, down from 300)."

She has been unwilling to deny herself that extra 100% of calories each day she indulges in, but could easily do without.

All very valid points. And raises the issue of determining at what point obesity becomes a disease. Further, food can be a drug and eating can be an addiction.

misanthropist

06-19-13, 18:12

So it's just that easy huh?

Unless someone's figured out a way to violate the laws of physics. When energy out exceeds energy in, the fuel comes from somewhere...

Flawless, sub-moa fit and finish...all day long.

theblackknight

06-19-13, 18:13

I'm tired of the pity party for fat people. They always have something to blame besides themselves. Genetics, thyroid, surgery depression etc. Anything besides 'I said fuq it, and rang the bell'.

They always seem to think they have the right to not be judged. So what about when their body finally starts to judge back?

sent from mah gun,using my sights

Gutshot John

06-19-13, 18:15

Unless you have cancer or a real disease, you're wholly to blame for your condition. Obviously there are no physical causes for obesity outside of overeating so it's clearly a moral failure.

That's pretty much true, without exception, for 99.9% of psychological illness designations. Patently absurd and should not be considered as real diseases in that sense. PTSD? Don't make me laugh. They obviously chose to go to war and lacked the moral fortitude to see it through to the end.

Same with smokers, lung cancer, emphysema, CAD, are all the result of personal choices and therefore should not be considered as real diseases. They are purely psychological phantoms and a moral failure of the highest order.

Clearly some people might need some help though. I vote they should be rounded up and starved/exercised until they reach a weight pleasing to the rest of us.

I'm glad we have real health care professionals here who know their stuff and can help us figure this stuff out.

Mac5.56

06-19-13, 18:15

I think we should all start running around at work, breaking shit and being super agitated everywhere we go.

Then when confronted by our superiors we should state: "I'm a coke head, and addiction is a disease, therefore you have to excuse my behavior, or at least put me on medical leave to get help..." Then cackle loudly and run off with our arms flailing above our heads.

For the college students reading this I suggest coming late to all classes and state the above as justification for your behavior. At around 80% of Universities your professors probably wont be able to punish you if you document and challenge the repercussions then go to the Health Center for help with your disease.

I'm so over this society...

jmnielsen

06-19-13, 18:18

So the kid that partied all four years of college and never studied and didn't graduate, it's not his fault. He has the "lazy and don't care" disease.

RogerinTPA

06-19-13, 18:23

I've lost 60 lbs in less than a year, while doing almost no exercise, and with no radical changes to my diet.

Well, the changes in my diet WERE radical: I stopped eating crap, I stopped eating two helpings of crap, I stopped eating stuff from boxes, I reduced portion sizes in half, knowing I could always get more. Now I rarely do.

It's not fun, it takes time, no one notices unless they haven't seen you in a while. BUt in the vast majority of "obesity" cases, eating less will, eventually, solve the problem.

That's awesome. Having the discipline for portion control and eating healthier nutritious food is key, and a lesson I'm relearning. My snacks are now fruit. Your body must burn off as much calories as you ingest to maintain your current weight or you will gain.

misanthropist

06-19-13, 18:25

Unless you have cancer or a real disease, you're wholly to blame for your condition. Obviously there are no physical causes for obesity outside of overeating so it's clearly a moral failure.

Unlike every other condition you described, there essentially AREN'T any physical causes of obesity other than overeating. Other causes are so rare they're insignificant.

Flawless, sub-moa fit and finish...all day long.

jmnielsen

06-19-13, 18:27

Unlike every other condition you described, there essentially AREN'T any physical causes of obesity other than overeating. Other causes are so rare they're insignificant.

Flawless, sub-moa fit and finish...all day long.

Overrating and sedentary lifestyle. That's about it. I know plenty of people that have thyroid issues and yes they are heavier, but not obese. Because they eat right and stay active.

Spiffums

06-19-13, 18:31

That is a big harsh. A disease no but a moral defect. Damn so me being a fat person makes me immoral by that logic.
Pat

And if your fat your automatically in the Taliban! :lol:

I stole that from Family Guy.

Gutshot John

06-19-13, 18:32

Unlike every other condition you described, there essentially AREN'T any physical causes of obesity other than overeating. Other causes are so rare they're insignificant.

Flawless, sub-moa fit and finish...all day long.

Really? You're sure? Your qualifications?

Because I can think of numerous ones. Thyroid among others.

Outside of that the distinction of "physical cause" is profoundly ignorant of pathology and 100% wrong. There is ZERO physical "cause" criteria for something to be labeled a disease.

The standard proposed in this was that if any disease results from a personal choice or lack of personal fortitude, it should not be considered a real disease.

I'm down with that, just apply it consistently.

Gutshot John

06-19-13, 18:35

Medical definition of disease so everyone can at least argue from the same set of facts.

disease /dis·ease/ (dĭ-zēz´) any deviation from or interruption of the normal structure or function of any body part, organ, or system that is manifested by a characteristic set of symptoms and signs and whose etiology, pathology, and prognosis may be known or unknown. http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/disease

Moose-Knuckle

06-19-13, 18:41

I'm a sex addict. It's my cross to bear. It's a real disease with doctors and medicine and everything! - Chazz Michael Michaels

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nekzfohNwuY

jmnielsen

06-19-13, 18:46

So, homosexuality isn't "normal" behavior. Is it a disease? I mean, obviously the brain is functioning differential than that of a "normal" person right?

J-Dub

06-19-13, 18:51

Obesity is as much a disease as Alcoholism (hint both are not).

What a joke. So you don't have enough will power to eat right and exercise?? Well, have fun with heart disease, diabetes, cancer, ect, ect, ect.....

Gutshot John

06-19-13, 18:55

So, homosexuality isn't "normal" behavior. Is it a disease? I mean, obviously the brain is functioning differential than that of a "normal" person right?

Huh?

Who said anything about homosexuality being a disease?

You might be obsessed dude.

That said, I'll follow your logic one step further than you wanted and say that AIDS is obviously not a real disease, since you either have to be queer or a drug addict to get it, and that's obviously a personal choice/moral failing.

Gutshot John

06-19-13, 18:57

What a joke. So you don't have enough will power to eat right and exercise?? Well, have fun with heart disease, diabetes, cancer, ect, ect, ect.....

You walked around your own point, those obviously aren't diseases, since they were obviously personal choices as well.

Oh this becomes so much easier if you just use the personal choice criteria.

We can become disease free and prevent 100% of disease caused deaths, if we just call disease something else.

J-Dub

06-19-13, 19:03

You walked around your own point, those obviously aren't diseases, since they were obviously personal choices as well.

Oh this becomes so much easier if you just use the personal choice criteria.

We can become disease free and prevent 100% of disease caused deaths, if we just call disease something else.

What the **** are you talking about?

Obesity is a choice (ie, you become obese by being sedentary and eating too damn much). A choice that will lead to diseases, since the human body isn't supposed to be 75% lard ass. At some point a human being has to take some responsibility, and if you cant even take responsibility for your own health......you're in for a shitty ride on this little marble...

gun71530

06-19-13, 19:05

J-Dub

06-19-13, 19:12

Why is it impossible for you too be civil?

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

I apologize, I thought I was being civil. I forgot around these parts adults must be approached and treated as infants.

Again, I apologize. I will not post uncivil things or dirty words again. I promise.

Gutshot John

06-19-13, 19:12

What the **** are you talking about?

Obesity is a choice (ie, you become obese by being sedentary and eating too damn much). A choice that will lead to diseases, since the human body isn't supposed to be 75% lard ass....

But hey, since you're probably obese, keep making excuses for yourself....

So let's see you resort to an ad hominem attack when I"ve agreed in substance with everything you've said? How does that work?

Let's see, what half-baked conclusion can I draw from your above words...oh I know...

You're probably learning disabled, because you keep making excuses for your misinformed opinions rather than talking about what is and what is not a disease and when your argument fails apart you simply resort to namecalling. Your use of invective (e.g. "infants") demonstrates your bad faith and poor reasoning capability. Typical of a child or mentally stunted individual.

See how that works? I can just make shit up too. Who cares whether it bears any resemblance to reality?

Outside of that I'm down with you, totally a personal choice. Anything that results from a personal choice shouldn't be a disease. Let's just call all subsequent results what they are...or are not.

I don't know how I can agree with you any more, but apparently that irony is lost on you. Maybe you don't like your insipid statements taken to their logical ends and ridiculed accordingly?

Must be a pathology of unknown etiology.