View Full Version : M855 doesn't fit well in D&H FDE USGI mags, what gives
Hi all,
I've always run PMAGS but recently bought two D&H fde usgi mags from Cabelas to try them out. I also picked up 600rds of federal m855. The 300 round boxes are labeled xm855f3.
The M855 loads fine in my PMAGS and a SF60 quad but seems to hang up and drag in the two D&H mags. The rounds seem to drag on the front wall of the magazine and cause issues when loading and unloading the mag by hand. The other ammo I use, both PMC Bronze 55gr and BH MK262 seem to load/unload just fine in the D&H.
I did some test firing and the D&H M855 combo shot just fine, but I'm very surprised about the tight fit.
What gives? Is this normal?
If not, are the mags or the ammo out of spec?
BTW google found old thread from 2007 on arfcom with the same issue.....
Other than m855 dragging I like the d&h mags, they have a magpul, follower and load 30 rounds just fine with enough spring pay to load on a closed bolt...
Thx.
CrazyFingers
06-25-13, 07:58
I also noticed that there was significantly more friction on D&H mags than PMags when I bought a few, but I assumed it was because of metal-to-metal contact vs. plastic in the PMags (using Brown Bear and Wolf). As you stated, there was noticeably more resistance when inserting and removing rounds by hand in the D&H mags when I first bought them. However, they functioned in my rifle fine, and they seem to have broken in, or I just don't notice the increased friction anymore. As to the difference between M855 and retail rounds, could that be due to additional polishing on the retail rounds? I'm just guessing there. As long as everything functions correctly, I wouldn't worry about it.
Measure the OAL of the ammo. Should be about 2.250"
Does rapping the spine of the mag on a hard surface help seat the rounds in the mag better?
Not surprising that the mag might be a little tight with the rush to get production out this year.
I would find that quite disconcerting that mags were rushed to production only to be slightly out of spec.
OTOH, I don't know that I've ever loaded a brand new steel mag.
I would find that quite disconcerting that mags were rushed to production only to be slightly out of spec.
OTOH, I don't know that I've ever loaded a brand new steel mag.
Off topic but I ran across some Magpul followers the other day & bought a bunch to put in some Brownells mags. Everyone of them was tight & got stuck about an inch from the top. I put a couple in some mags I bought pre-panic, and they were just fine. Don't be surprised at what temporary employees working overtime are capable of.
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Off topic but I ran across some Magpul followers the other day & bought a bunch to put in some Brownells mags. Everyone of them was tight & got stuck about an inch from the top. I put a couple in some mags I bought pre-panic, and they were just fine. Don't be surprised at what temporary employees working overtime are capable of.
Yep. My last shipment of brownells mags are like that too. Mag bodies are not easy to do right.
midSCarolina
06-25-13, 10:20
I have never been a huge fan of D&H mags. I don't know if I just had an abnormally bad experience but I bought 3 a while back and they did not work well for me to say the least. I kept having rounds hang up in the feedlips even when I was only loading 20. Here is what it was doing to the casings (the black streak is from the feedlip dragging across the brass):
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/thornejc23/DH.jpg
I have several D&H magazines I purchased 5 years ago and they run just fine. If you have a dial caliper, measure the inside dimensions of the top of the magazines and post what you find. Also post the C.O.L. of the M855 ammuntion if you don't mind.
DH magazines are not USGI mags. They are cheap aftermarket aluminum mags.
This is a myth that everyone keeps repeating on the internet. They are junk.
Real OEM USGI mags are made by Okay / New Haven Manufacturing.
D&H seemed to have cleared up their old QC issues... but maybe they're back. :confused:
On another note, have noticed my Lancer AWF mags drag while loading M856 or
heavier rounds. Never had a malf from one but anything 64g or longer does require more effort to load.
-Jax
Isn't D&H what was formerly Labelles? And they, at one point, were a USGI mag manufacturor.
D&H has a CAGE code (04TQ4) and doss supply magazines to the U.S military. So that would make them a USGI magazine. I know plenty of people who bought them through BCM and never had issues.
DH magazines are not USGI mags. They are cheap aftermarket aluminum mags.
This is a myth that everyone keeps repeating on the internet. They are junk.
Real OEM USGI mags are made by Okay / New Haven Manufacturing.
I may be mistaken but weren't Labelles mags made up until the '94 ban? Afterwards they were labeled D&H but made with the same tooling. May be mistaken.
-Jax
Just found my answer:
http://www.dhmetalstamping.com/history.htm
1937
*
The origins of D&H Industries trace back to LaBelle Industries (started in 1937 in Oconomowoc, Wisconsin) and General Stamping (started in 1975 in New Berlin, Wisconsin). LaBelle was one of the early magazine producers of M-16 magazines for the US Military and law enforcement agencies.
1993
*
Labelle changed their name to Quest Technologies, along with its focus of operations. Quest divested its stamping operations to General Stamping in 1993.
1997
*
In 1997, David Lupton and Howard Arnson purchased the combined General Stamping, formed D&H Industries and consolidated the operations into the Oconomowoc facility.
2007
*
In 2007, D&H Industries was purchased by a local group of business partners with three other companies in the metal working industries. D&H has been a proud addition to the diverse group of metal working companies and looks forward to the expansion of our processes to meet our customers' ever-changing needs.
2008
*
Mr. Arnson and Mr. Lupton worked diligently to develop a strong ethical business. By the time of their retirement in 2008, their diligence had tripled the sales of metal stamped and fabricated products. During their tenure, they developed business with many major manufacturers, such as Caterpillar, CNH, John Deere, Krueger International, and over 80 other companies.
Today
*
Lean manufacturing systems deployed and 5-S program implemented. D&H expanded their plant in 2012 bringing their manufacturing space to 130,000 square feet. Additionally, D&H Industries houses 35 hydraulic and mechanical presses from 32 to 2,000 ton and provide an on-site quality lab with Brown & Sharpe One CMM.
In addition to the development of commercial OEM customers, D&H continued to develop the quality and customer base for M-16 magazines. D&H Magazine deliveries to our allied customers around the world have led us to becoming the major supplier to the Israeli Defense Forces.
the_1iviper
06-25-13, 15:25
Isn't D&H what was formerly Labelles? And they, at one point, were a USGI mag manufacturor.
yes , see link
http://www.dhmetalstamping.com/history.htm
i have some of the original Labelle mags , they run good.
D&H has a CAGE code (04TQ4) and doss supply magazines to the U.S military. So that would make them a USGI magazine. I know plenty of people who bought them through BCM and never had issues.
I already know that.
The ones DH sells in stores are teflon coated and are not OEM mags.
RogerinTPA
06-25-13, 16:12
D&H has a CAGE code (04TQ4) and doss supply magazines to the U.S military. So that would make them a USGI magazine. I know plenty of people who bought them through BCM and never had issues.
Agreed. I own a bunch of them through BCM, as well as a metric shit ton of Pmags, Lancers, & NHMTGs, but have never had an issue with D&H mags. I do tend to use D&H mags more for my personal range time, while holding the others in reserve for possible future mag bans & preps, but have used them in a couple of classes, without a glitch.
I have probably 2 dozen from BCM in black and some gray ones and I have had no issues loading or them functioning with 55gr., 62gr. or 75gr. bullets.
I already know that.
The ones DH sells in stores are teflon coated and are not OEM mags.
Off topic but I ran across some Magpul followers the other day & bought a bunch to put in some Brownells mags. Everyone of them was tight & got stuck about an inch from the top. I put a couple in some mags I bought pre-panic, and they were just fine. Don't be surprised at what temporary employees working overtime are capable of.
Sent via Tapatalk
Yep. My last shipment of brownells mags are like that too. Mag bodies are not easy to do right.
I bought some Brownells 20-round mags a month ago and they have loaded and fed M855 fine.
DH magazines are not USGI mags. They are cheap aftermarket aluminum mags.
This is a myth that everyone keeps repeating on the internet. They are junk.
Real OEM USGI mags are made by Okay / New Haven Manufacturing.
im pretty sure that brownells mags with the tan follower is now the main if not only magazine the army buys now. For the last 5 years I would say every newly supplied magazine I ever saw in a arms room was the brownells, of course there are still a bunch of green follower mags still in circulation from the various manufactures. I don't even think the army buys mas from okay industries anymore.
I have run almost 1k rounds of m855 through colt usgi mags w/ zero problems.
I have run almost 1k rounds of m855 through colt usgi mags w/ zero problems.
What does that have to do with the D&H question? :confused:
CrazyFingers
06-26-13, 08:50
I've got 4 D&H mags, 1 from 2009 and 3 from 2012 that have run flawlessly through 2000+ rounds with brass and steel-cased. Yes, it's a small sample size with a low round-count, but it's data nonetheless.
I dont have access to measuring calipers so anything id try with a ruler would be ballpark only.
I have run almost 1k rounds of m855 through colt usgi mags w/ zero problems.
Looks like someone slept at a Holiday Inn last night....:D
"Lean manufacturing systems deployed and 5-S program implemented. ...."
I just sat through an 8 hour class on "Lean Manufacturing" ...Good concept, but in a nutshell , it tries to have everything work perfect, turning people into robots. One SNAFU and the whole line shuts down.Obviously the QC portion is not working out...
I dont have access to measuring calipers so anything id try with a ruler would be ballpark only.
This issue would be in thousandths of an inch at best and hundredths at worst. A ruler is barely accurate to 16ths.
That said, if the mags are causing an issue and bought recently enough, reach out to the retailer or mfg and see what they offer as a solution. Many places want happy repeat customers.
PA PATRIOT
06-26-13, 18:22
I have close to 70 D&H 30rd magazines (love that DSG L/E discount) and rotate them after 5 fully loaded cycles (function check) and so far I have not had a single magazine related failure of any kind using IMI M855 and Federal M-193.
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