View Full Version : Question on M16A2
Are all the A2's now out of service with Active, Guard, and Reserve units? I would imagine that M4's (or M16A4's) have taken over by now.
There are a few in service out there with reserve units still. My reserve unit just cleared out our last four about five months ago from our armory...
Lawnchair 04
06-28-13, 10:51
still see some out here in afghan on occasion. look like reserve units though
justin_247
06-28-13, 12:09
USAF still uses them for training and issues them to support personnel or those acting as Security Forces augmentees.
kaltesherz
06-28-13, 12:33
I'm pretty sure I saw a couple from afar in Yakima (YTC) a couple weeks ago- but even the Guard support / soft skills seemed to pretty much all have M4s, muskets were few and far between.
In Bagram I remember many enlisted USAF had what looked like M16A2's straight out of the box- they were so immaculate I took a picture of one.
I've been in the Army since 2007 and still have yet to fire any type of M16. Looks like that might never change...
txf15crewchief
06-28-13, 12:43
USAF still uses them for training and issues them to support personnel or those acting as Security Forces augmentees.
I'm in aircraft maintenance; I've only ever seen the old musket since I joined the USAF in 2003.
As my sig line indicates I've only been in the Corps for about 2 years but I have seen no A2's as of yet. In fact I haven't even seen an A4 with irons since boot.
Fort Hood has plenty of A2s. It is rare that you will see an M16A4. There are a few out there but not many. Front line troops carry M4s and everyone else A2s.
They are very common in non-BCT units.
I am issued an M16A2 with RAS and a gooseneck M68.
My sister qualified this year with an A2, KSARNG. They're still pretty common.
Dist. Expert 26
06-28-13, 14:46
I haven't seen an A2 since boot camp in 2010, and they were in the process of transitioning to the A4 at that time. We don't work with reserve or national guard units so I can't speak for them, but I'm almost positive no active units are still fielding them.
scoutfsu99
06-28-13, 19:11
Army - Active, Guard, Reserve still use the A2. Just depends on the job/unit. You'll see A2's, A4's, M4's.
justin_247
06-28-13, 19:14
I'm in aircraft maintenance; I've only ever seen the old musket since I joined the USAF in 2003.
So am I. I've been on a deployment with them, seen them on deployment, used them on pre-deployment training, and been issued them during exercises at Osan.
High Tower
06-28-13, 20:03
Are all the A2's now out of service with Active, Guard, and Reserve units?
They sure are. When we redeploy home, we will turn in our M4's and get A2's back. It makes perfect sense - why equip your own troops with updated rifles when you have Syrian rebel terrorists to arm? :rolleyes:
Failure2Stop
06-28-13, 20:09
I saw a national guard dudes in AFG in 2011 with A2s.
Made me nostalgic.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Lots of support and soft skill MOS's still rocking A2s
scoutfsu99
06-28-13, 21:24
They sure are. When we redeploy home, we will turn in our M4's and get A2's back. It makes perfect sense - why equip your own troops with updated rifles when you have Syrian rebel terrorists to arm? :rolleyes:
I enjoyed seeing Iraqi's and now Afghan's (although I haven't seen a lot of them with it) armed with M4's.
I will say, one of the cool things I've seen here with US weapons is an M16A4/ACOG/203 and the collapsible stock conversion. If I had to carry an M16, that's the way I'd like to go.
I've seen A2's in very limited use with active duty units in the last year or so. I've seen them more often with reserve units. The last A2 I saw in use rocked a 550 cord sling.
A lot of units have been signing for M4s in theater, but still have racks full of M16A2s at home station. My former TXARNG unit is at Udairi now with borrowed M4s.
Nightvisionary
06-29-13, 03:34
As my sig line indicates I've only been in the Corps for about 2 years but I have seen no A2's as of yet. In fact I haven't even seen an A4 with irons since boot.
:( Wow that makes me feel old. I remember when we switched from M-16A1's/M-193 to the M-16A2 with the brand new M-855 green tip. Does that qualify me for Old Corps status?:D
twistedcomrade
06-29-13, 10:46
:( Wow that makes me feel old. I remember when we switched from M-16A1's/M-193 to the M-16A2 with the brand new M-855 green tip. Does that qualify me for Old Corps status?:D
Me too. I loved the A2 when I was in.
Army Chief
06-29-13, 10:58
:( Wow that makes me feel old. I remember when we switched from M-16A1's/M-193 to the M-16A2 with the brand new M-855 green tip. Does that qualify me for Old Corps status?:D
Likely so, though all of my M-16 trigger time was/is on A1s. The A2 didn't come out until I was already on aircrew status, so it was mostly handguns (.38 revolvers, 1911s, M9s) thereafter for me.
AC
When I had to qualify on the M16 in the USAF (1978-1998) we didn't even have the A1 configuration. They were just basic M16's (some had three-prong flash suppressors and said "Colt AR-15" on the receiver).
I believe those have since been rebuilt into some other configuration.
Devildawg2531
06-29-13, 16:32
I saw and used only M16A2 from 92 - 99 in the Marine Corps. What is being used now for rifle qualification at MCRD PI and in the fleet? Can RDS or optics of any kind now be used for rifle qualification?
Thanks
Last I heard, recruits are no longer qualifying with irons, they are using RCO's only. I qual'ed with irons at boot but for my most recent rifle qual, feb this year, every Marine had an RCO as well.
I'm pretty sure I saw a couple from afar in Yakima (YTC) a couple weeks ago- but even the Guard support / soft skills seemed to pretty much all have M4s, muskets were few and far between.
In Bagram I remember many enlisted USAF had what looked like M16A2's straight out of the box- they were so immaculate I took a picture of one.
I've been in the Army since 2007 and still have yet to fire any type of M16. Looks like that might never change...
The WARNG is still higher on the priority list than most Guard units, and in some cases higher than some Active units. We were getting gear sooner than some of the units at JBLM, before we come down on the deployment list. We were getting A4s, and a few M4s around the same time as 3rd ID (M). Then got M4s, at least the 161 IN right after the Army decided that even mech units would get M4s. MI, and other support units were still rocking the A4 in the 81st's last deployment in '08-09.
There are units at JBLM that still have A2s. Most are just sitting in arms rooms with the rear d, but some guys have deployed with them within the last three years.
At least there aren't any A1s still in use. When I ETSd from the Regular Army in the 101st, and went into the MDARNG, I was issued an M16A1 that was older than I was. It actually still said Colt AR15, with M16A1 in smaller letters.
I saw and used only M16A2 from 92 - 99 in the Marine Corps. What is being used now for rifle qualification at MCRD PI and in the fleet? Can RDS or optics of any kind now be used for rifle qualification?
Thanks
The following optics are authorized for ART:
AN/PVQ-31A RCO, RIFLE, COMBAT OPTIC (A4)
AN/PVQ-31B RCO, RIFLE, COMBAT OPTIC (M4)
SPECTER DR, ELCAN OPTIC (CQBW)
SU-258/PVQ SDO, SQUAD DAY OPTIC (M27)
Grand58742
06-30-13, 07:45
When I had to qualify on the M16 in the USAF (1978-1998) we didn't even have the A1 configuration. They were just basic M16's (some had three-prong flash suppressors and said "Colt AR-15" on the receiver).
I believe those have since been rebuilt into some other configuration.
Most if not all have been rebuilt to the A2 standard. New uppers, FCG, stock and grip. Pretty much the only thing left is the lower receiver itself. Even the "Auto" mark is stamped over with "Burst."
Saw something interesting along those same lines the other day. Our Navy Security unit at Tinker just got some M4s. Which I thought to maybe be new. However, I've seen lowers marked with Colt M16A2, Hydro-matics, H&R, Colt M16A1 and Colt AR15. Very diverse bunch of lowers rebuilt to M4 standard
:( Wow that makes me feel old. I remember when we switched from M-16A1's/M-193 to the M-16A2 with the brand new M-855 green tip. Does that qualify me for Old Corps status?:D
I remember that day too...and the big discussion about what happens if you shoot the non-green tip ammo in the new A2's.......:)
DC Metropolitan Police has some A1s still. Occasionally I see one come out for a serious situation. Those rifles were supposedly Vietnam era trade ins.
:( Wow that makes me feel old. I remember when we switched from M-16A1's/M-193 to the M-16A2 with the brand new M-855 green tip. Does that qualify me for Old Corps status?:D
Unfortunately, I think it does qualify you as "Old Corp". I know many NCO's and company grade officers that were born after we got the A2's.
It just doesn't seem that long ago to me.
BrigandTwoFour
06-30-13, 10:04
Active duty USAF here. I regularly saw A2s issued to all non-Security Forces personnel going on on nuclear weapon convoys in Montana. Anyone that was required to be armed, but wasn't SF was issued an A2 and a dumpy old looking Blackhawk vest.
But, to be fair, most people on those convoys are SF and equipped with all the latest Gucci gear.
:( Wow that makes me feel old. I remember when we switched from M-16A1's/M-193 to the M-16A2 with the brand new M-855 green tip. Does that qualify me for Old Corps status?:D
Unfortunately, I think it does qualify you as "Old Corp". I know many NCO's and company grade officers that were born after we got the A2's.
It just doesn't seem that long ago to me.Heck, I was issued an M14 when I was in the Army.
Heck, I was issued an M14 when I was in the Army.
You qualify as Old Army.
I currently am issued both an M4 and an M16 A4, the joys of being in a small deploying team and being both the JFO and the SDM.
Army Chief
06-30-13, 11:44
You qualify as Old Army.
Maybe even "Grand Army of the Republic." ;)
The M14, like the Garand before it, was certainly a capable rifle (and a sentimental favorite), but I'm glad that I never had to carry one around the battlefield. By today's standards, anything that long and heavy had better be launching .50 BMG rounds.
AC
RogerinTPA
06-30-13, 13:47
Are all the A2's now out of service with Active, Guard, and Reserve units? I would imagine that M4's (or M16A4's) have taken over by now.
As of last Sept, I saw A2s still in service with Army support troops, reservist and USAF maintenance folks on the flightline in Bagram, and other FOBs I flew into.
Maybe even "Grand Army of the Republic." ;)
The M14, like the Garand before it, was certainly a capable rifle (and a sentimental favorite), but I'm glad that I never had to carry one around the battlefield. By today's standards, anything that long and heavy had better be launching .50 BMG rounds.
AC
Ha, I get it.
I've used an M14 as an RI when covering down as OPFOR. It was fun, especially the full auto version, but I prefer an M16/M4.
I recall reading that study that was commissioned by the Army in 1986 or so. In it, the Army asserted that
(1) The M16A2 is less accurate than the M16A1 out to 300 meters.
(2) The M16A2 is less reliable than the M16A1
(3) The M16A2's (then new) rear sight is easily damaged/knocked out of adjustment
(4) The M16A2's buttstock is too long
(5) The M16A2 has a 1:7 rifling twist. A 1:9 would be more desirable (this was before the introduction of the newer ammo).
Basically the Army didn't want anything to do, at least initially, with this Marine-inspired contraption. And they commissioned a study to prove they were right. ;)
:( Wow that makes me feel old. I remember when we switched from M-16A1's/M-193 to the M-16A2 with the brand new M-855 green tip. Does that qualify me for Old Corps status?:D
Nah!!! You aren't that old yet. I was issued a N.I.B. M16A1 at my first duty station JAN 88. I carried that rifle for three years to include Desert Shield/Storm. We turned them in for N.I.B. A2s in '92. I get to brag that I have been issued a NIB M16A1, A2, and M4 along with a NIB M9. Most Soldiers never see a brand new weapon much less take it out of the box.
As of last Sept, I saw A2s still in service with Army support troops, reservist and USAF maintenance folks on the flightline in Bagram, and other FOBs I flew into.
Your Combat Aviation BDEs still have them. Only flying crew members get M4s. Everyone else has either M16A2s (some with RAS installed) or M16A4s.
This is just a cool thread. I was in from 92-12 and carried an A2 all the way up to the invasion in 03. Once we got back I went to instructor duty for a few years and when I hit the FMF again everything was different. It was amazing to me that my carbine I depolyed with in 07 was heavier than my rifle of 03 with all the crap thrown on it.
The A2 is still one my favorites and I do have one in the safe. The excuse I used was to teach my kids irons first but in reality I love to shoot it myself!
Nah!!! You aren't that old yet. I was issued a N.I.B. M16A1 at my first duty station JAN 88. I carried that rifle for three years to include Desert Shield/Storm. We turned them in for N.I.B. A2s in '92. I get to brag that I have been issued a NIB M16A1, A2, and M4 along with a NIB M9. Most Soldiers never see a brand new weapon much less take it out of the box.
I too had a new M16A1, A2, M4, and M9, and a very old M1911A1. Also a couple of NIB MG's that were assigned to my platoon. I recently saw a unit unpack a NIB M2A1 on the firing line. Everything was still in the wrappers, the barrel, tripod, etc. (I could write a book on how to properly run an M2. The story would revolve around lubrication).
Army Chief
07-01-13, 11:02
A bit off topic, but some of you may find it amusing that one of my first issued weapons as a Mech Infantry (M113) guy in the mid-80s was actually the M3A1. Kind of a cool weapon; however, it was not new in the box by the time it reached me. ;)
AC
Heavy Metal
07-01-13, 11:12
A bit off topic, but some of you may find it amusing that one of my first issued weapons as a Mech Infantry (M113) guy in the mid-80s was actually the M3A1. Kind of a cool weapon; however, it was not new in the box by the time it reached me. ;)
AC
My Tankers used those Grease Guns. We had no rack for them and I just stacked them like lumber in a sheetmetal locker in the Arms Room.
Not fancy but for the most part they worked! I think I had both M3 and M3A1's but my memory is spotty after 21 years
I've not had the opportunity to shoot an M3. The closest I ever got was shooting a full auto Thompson M1928.
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