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Last week I purchased the following Palmetto products on special.
Details of assembled lower:
Machined from Aluminum Forgings 7075-T6. Hardcoat Anodizing is MIL-A-8625F, Type III, Class 2, Milspec Diameter Receiver Extension, staked M4 Lock Nut, Standard Carbine Buffer, Un-notched Hammer compatible with 9mm use, and includes 1 PSA D&H 30rd Magazine. M4 Stock (read el cheapo so I'll probably replace it and standard grip with Magpul or other such products).
Details of upper:
A Railed Free-float hammer-forged upper with a proprietary blend of Hammer forged chrome molly vanadium made by FN that is referred to as "Machine Gun Steel" by virtue of its required use in FN's M249 and M240 weapons. In addition, the chrome process for the bore allows for a lining almost twice as thick as a standard M16 for enhanced durability. Chambered in 5.56 NATO, with a 1/7 twist, M4 barrel extension, and a carbine-length gas system. The M4A1 style barrel is high pressure tested, magnetic particle inspected and then phosphate coated to mil-specs. Barrel is finished off with a Midwest Industries SS12G2 12" free-float rail, low-profile gas block and an A2 flash hider. Upper is forged 7075-T6 Flat top, hard coat anodized black and featuring M4 feedramp cuts & T-marks.
I plan to use an M16 Spikes BCG for this rifle.
Do any of you have direct experience with the particular Palmetto upper/lower combo, and if so did you find it to be as good as the Palmetto descriptions? Should I expect the FN barrel to be below MOA?
I've used about 6 PSA lowers with their build kits and have had no issues. I've used 3 of their uppers (although not the exact same as yours) on their lowers and had no issues with them either. When shooting some match 75gr BTHP from Hornady I was definitely shooting MOA or better with 5 shot groups. I like their lowers so much I will be having one as my SBR lower.
If you searched you would find plenty of people with the same experiences.
I don't have exactly the same setup, but my carbine is built from a PSA kit using a PSA lower. I've put about 3k rounds through since it was built almost two years ago and after a couple of teething problems were taken care of, it's run fine since. At first, the rifle would occasionally have a feed jam because the upper receiver was cut with M4 feed ramps and the barrel was not. PSA took it back and repaired the problem in a most timely fashion.
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/Carbine_Tools.jpg
The FN barrels are among the best available for the AR. You may get sub MOA accuracy with good ammo, but you won't know until you try. A reasonable expectation is 2-3 MOA with bulk, blaster ammo.
A good acquaintance of mine built a couple of PSA kits and he's been satisfied with them as well. I like my PSA and wouldn't hesitate to buy another or three. Assemble your PSA kit correctly and it will be a good running carbine
The people who are looking for lowest prices are typically satisfied with their purchase.
Either way, you have already bought it, so looking for opinions now is like closing the gate after the live stock has escaped.
Razorhunter
06-29-13, 18:04
I don't have exactly the same setup, but my carbine is built from a PSA kit using a PSA lower. I've put about 3k rounds through since it was built almost two years ago and after a couple of teething problems were taken care of, it's run fine since. At first, the rifle would occasionally have a feed jam because the upper receiver was cut with M4 feed ramps and the barrel was not. PSA took it back and repaired the problem in a most timely fashion.
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/Carbine_Tools.jpg
The FN barrels are among the best available for the AR. You may get sub MOA accuracy with good ammo, but you won't know until you try. A reasonable expectation is 2-3 MOA with bulk, blaster ammo.
A good acquaintance of mine built a couple of PSA kits and he's been satisfied with them as well. I like my PSA and wouldn't hesitate to buy another or three. Assemble your PSA kit correctly and it will be a good running carbine
Mist,
I'm interested to know what hammer is that, and heats the item to the right of the hammer? Looks like another handle for the hammer almost, but I'm sure it's not. Is the hammer brass and nylon faced? Trying to make out the pic. Thx
The hammer looks like a harbor freight special, I have the exact same one. I was going to post a link, but I couldn't find it on their website.
EDIT: found it! http://www.harborfreight.com/double-sided-mallet-with-wooden-handle-98285.html
Yes, the hammer is from Harbor Freight. Good in theory but turned out to be a cheap ass hammer in use. The nylon was very brittle and shattered even with light blows. I do not reccomend it. The rod next to it is a brass punch that I find very useful
Suwannee Tim
06-29-13, 21:38
Yes, the hammer is from Harbor Freight.......
Mist, I am shocked and dismayed you would use such a thing on an AR. It's an insult to the memory of St. Eugene. I would have thought you would have used an Estwing (http://www.estwing.com/) at least if not a Picard (http://www.picard-hammer.de/en/hammers-from-a-z.html).
...and I am ashamed. But it was early in my AR building career, before I discovered there was The Chart (cue Heavenly Chorus) for gunsmithing hammers penned by the hand of the Holy Man in the Bright Colored Visor. Forgive me, for I have sinned and am unworthy to walk uprightly before St. Stoner and the Almighty JMB
Thank you for your inputs guys, but talking about a thread highjacking hammer :o
After reading the specs I figured this may prove an interesting weapon to "put together" and since I have nothing to lose I thought why not do this. I estimate I'll have a trigger to tweak and then shoot, shoot, shoot to prove that it's a keeper, or not. I'll post comparison targets when they become available. BTW, I reload most everything I shoot so I am sure I'll determine what this particular 1 in 7 barrel likes. My LMT shoots everything accurately but the heavier projectiles do best through it.
Suwannee Tim
06-30-13, 06:23
....... but talking about a thread highjacking hammer :o......
You are going to have to get used to it g. That's the way it is around here.
.......Forgive me, for I have sinned......
Face Hartford and give me 50 Hail Eugenes and go and sin no more.
Suwannee, nothing for me to get used to, as long as we are all having fun it's all good!
Well folks, my Palmetto build is now completed and I do believe it's proven worthy of the wait and my effort. Tomorrow I'll take it to my property to shoot it and if it shoots as good as it looks I'll be one happy camper.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/George/AR15%20and%2045%20ACP/IMG_8582_zps82c11c1e.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/George/media/AR15%20and%2045%20ACP/IMG_8582_zps82c11c1e.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/George/AR15%20and%2045%20ACP/IMG_8580_zpsf911bb21.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/George/media/AR15%20and%2045%20ACP/IMG_8580_zpsf911bb21.jpg.html)
I can't say enough about Palmetto's customer service, and quality of product!! I would not hesitate to buy from them whatever AR product I may need.
Con grads on your PSA build. What kind of pistol grip is that? I havent seen that model, looks like it is part of the trigger guard.
Specs and make on the scope?
Con grads on your PSA build. What kind of pistol grip is that? I havent seen that model, looks like it is part of the trigger guard.
Specs and make on the scope?
Not my gun but it's the Stark grip.
http://starkequipment.com/
I hear it's a good grip to use if you're one of the unfortunate individuals to break an ear off of your lower while trying to install the trigger guard roll pin.
Not my gun but it's the Stark grip.
http://starkequipment.com/
I hear it's a good grip to use if you're one of the unfortunate individuals to break an ear off of your lower while trying to install the trigger guard roll pin.
Thanks for the info, nice way to save your lower with broken ear.
OP, I hope you are not one of the unfortunate individuals...:p
Not my gun but it's the Stark grip.
http://starkequipment.com/
I hear it's a good grip to use if you're one of the unfortunate individuals to break an ear off of your lower while trying to install the trigger guard roll pin.
Been there, done that. Currently wearing the t-shirt :rolleyes: If you can get past the kind of goofy looks, it's a very comfortable grip.
I've got a buddy that swears by PSA. I've been looking at their lowers as well. I'm sure yours is good-to-go. Have fun with it, keep us updated if you have any problems. PSA might make it on the chart before long seems like the parts quality is there.
...and I am ashamed. But it was early in my AR building career, before I discovered there was The Chart (cue Heavenly Chorus) for gunsmithing hammers penned by the hand of the Holy Man in the Bright Colored Visor. Forgive me, for I have sinned and am unworthy to walk uprightly before St. Stoner and the Almighty JMB
This post is full of win lol.
All hale the CHART, we are not worthy.:lol:
Grand58742
07-20-13, 03:39
I've got a buddy that swears by PSA. I've been looking at their lowers as well. I'm sure yours is good-to-go. Have fun with it, keep us updated if you have any problems. PSA might make it on the chart before long seems like the parts quality is there.
Just have to check on PSA closely though. Sometimes they don't have the MPI/HPT bolts or barrels, sometimes they do.
Just read the specs on whatever you happen to be buying first before you pull the trigger. Otherwise, they are good to go.
Absolutely nothing broken on my rifles but I do resemble an "unfortunate soul" now and then ;)
Air, it's a 30mm 6x24 Osprey scope and while decent enough I'll probably install one of my Super snipers on the rifle if it proves accurate enough while shooting it for the first time today. Also, I installed an old red dot Bushnell scope I had laying around for quick acquisition, it works well because it's canted to the left of center thus allowing left eye aim and/or right eye on the larger scope, if bot eyes remain open. I am hopeful that I'll be able to zero it to the right enough to appropriately shift POA/POI.
Vegas, why goofy look? I liked the purposeful, embedded larger trigger guard, sling attachment, and the shape of the Stark grip that's why I bought & installed it. Only thing different I'd do with them while manufacturing is to rubberize them more.
I also polished the trigger group to drop it from an 8lb to a now very crisp 5.5-6lb trigger pull.
So there appears to be an AR manufacturers chart somewhere that we all must worship? Typical of the "follower" mentality crowd....pun intended.
A few more pics from this morning:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/George/AR15%20and%2045%20ACP/IMG_8595_zps2d608ef8.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/George/media/AR15%20and%2045%20ACP/IMG_8595_zps2d608ef8.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/George/AR15%20and%2045%20ACP/IMG_8599_zpsf3009945.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/George/media/AR15%20and%2045%20ACP/IMG_8599_zpsf3009945.jpg.html)
Just have to check on PSA closely though. Sometimes they don't have the MPI/HPT bolts or barrels, sometimes they do.
Just read the specs on whatever you happen to be buying first before you pull the trigger. Otherwise, they are good to go.
Grand, can you please elaborate? What is MPI/HPT? My upper came without the BCG so I bought and installed a Spikes.
Grand58742
07-20-13, 06:49
Grand, can you please elaborate? What is MPI/HPT? My upper came without the BCG so I bought and installed a Spikes.
Long story short:
MPI - Magnetic Particle Inspection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_particle_inspection) Process of inspecting the barrels/bolts for defects that might shorten the lifespan of the part
HPT - High Pressure Test. Use of an M197 test cartridge (or equivalent) to test bolts/barrels at 70K PSI.
Shot peened - use of small pieces of "shot" to relieve the stress on the surface of a metal.
Also, proper spec materials like use of Carpenter 158 on the bolts, 4150 CMV barrel steel or FN proprietary "Machine Gun Steel." Stainless steel barrels, depending on the type and manufacturer, can be good to go. A search of the manufacturer on this site will probably turn up some info.
Quality parts will use fully MPI and (most of the time) HPT barrels and bolts. Some companies forgo the HPT on their bolts (Noveske for example) and there is some debate as to whether it is necessary as it could shorten the lifespan of the bolt. Not going to take a side one way or the other as that's a different discussion, different time.
Anyway, sometimes PSA lists uppers and BCGs without listing whether or not the bolts are properly inspected and/or tested. Such as this one. (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/featured/5-56-bolt-carrier-group-w-ambi-charging-handle.html) While it is made of the proper materials, there really isn't a way of knowing if the bolts are MPI/HPT or not. But they also have ones with the proper testing like this one (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/upper-parts/bolt-carrier-groups/complete/psa-5-56-bolt-carrier-group.html) which details the process.
And other times, you'll see something like 8620 used like here (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/upper-parts/bolt-carrier-groups/complete/5-56-8620-bolt-carrier-group-with-charging-handle.html) which is not the official "mil-spec" steel that is supposed to be used and also note the listing does not include any inspection process.
Barrels used by PSA are mostly FN manufactured varying from 4150 CMV steel to CHF "Machine Gun" steel. Many, if not most are listed as having MPI and HPT done so you are generally safe with PSA. But from time to time you get something like this (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/complete-uppers/16/psa-sqh13-mid-16-mid-length-stripped-railed-blemished-upper-ready-for-duty.html)listed which does not specify.
So as stated before, just check the specs on what you are picking up. PSA has an industry rep here on this board and they are pretty active over on Arfcom as well for specific questions about their products. They are generally pretty good about answering questions about the specs.
Also, here's a few other threads to check out:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7355
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=56063
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7009
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=50559
So there appears to be an AR manufacturers chart somewhere that we all must worship? Typical of the "follower" mentality crowd....pun intended.
I wouldn't go down this road...
Grand, can you please elaborate? What is MPI/HPT?
...until you're read up on, and understand, stuff like this.
munch, I am familiar, do understand, and speced out my upper/lower/BCG for MPI/HPT/shot pinned.....before purchase. Too early in the morning and I didn't make the abbreviations connection. As an engineer I very much appreciate well thought out specs/charts and fully comprehend their purpose in life, as long as they are properly understood and utilized by the user.
Excellent rifle both in performance and accuracy, I am impressed, it shot accurately even my 62gr tracer reloads. More to come this evening, just wanted to share first impressions with you, near real time. My trigger needs more work......
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/George/AR15%20and%2045%20ACP/Palmettoat25yards_zps6003d924.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/George/media/AR15%20and%2045%20ACP/Palmettoat25yards_zps6003d924.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/George/AR15%20and%2045%20ACP/Palmettozeroat25yards_zpsd4170034.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/George/media/AR15%20and%2045%20ACP/Palmettozeroat25yards_zpsd4170034.jpg.html)
This Palmetto appears to be a keeper!
100 yards with my Zmax reloads:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/George/AR15%20and%2045%20ACP/Palmettoat100yards_zpsb3a89ce5.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/George/media/AR15%20and%2045%20ACP/Palmettoat100yards_zpsb3a89ce5.jpg.html)
I would think twice about polishing the trigger. Once you get through the thin surface hardening it will begin to wear fast, to the point of being unsafe over enough time. If a lighter, smoother trigger is needed I would save up for a Giessele trigger. It's your gun though, just my 2 cents.
As far as chart worshipers go, you would do well to familiarize yourself with it, couldn't hurt. Looks like a successful build, congratulations.
Please refrain from making silly uninformed comments that will embarrass you later.
Absolutely nothing broken on my rifles but I do resemble an "unfortunate soul" now and then ;)
Air, it's a 30mm 6x24 Osprey scope and while decent enough I'll probably install one of my Super snipers on the rifle if it proves accurate enough while shooting it for the first time today. Also, I installed an old red dot Bushnell scope I had laying around for quick acquisition, it works well because it's canted to the left of center thus allowing left eye aim and/or right eye on the larger scope, if bot eyes remain open. I am hopeful that I'll be able to zero it to the right enough to appropriately shift POA/POI.
Vegas, why goofy look? I liked the purposeful, embedded larger trigger guard, sling attachment, and the shape of the Stark grip that's why I bought & installed it. Only thing different I'd do with them while manufacturing is to rubberize them more.
I also polished the trigger group to drop it from an 8lb to a now very crisp 5.5-6lb trigger pull.
So there appears to be an AR manufacturers chart somewhere that we all must worship? Typical of the "follower" mentality crowd....pun intended.
A few more pics from this morning:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/George/AR15%20and%2045%20ACP/IMG_8595_zps2d608ef8.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/George/media/AR15%20and%2045%20ACP/IMG_8595_zps2d608ef8.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/George/AR15%20and%2045%20ACP/IMG_8599_zpsf3009945.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/George/media/AR15%20and%2045%20ACP/IMG_8599_zpsf3009945.jpg.html)
munch, I am familiar, do understand, and speced out my upper/lower/BCG for MPI/HPT/shot pinned.....before purchase. Too early in the morning and I didn't make the abbreviations connection. As an engineer I very much appreciate well thought out specs/charts and fully comprehend their purpose in life, as long as they are properly understood and utilized by the user.
Your upper and lower is MPI, HPT, and shot peened?:confused:
Vegas, why goofy look? I liked the purposeful, embedded larger trigger guard, sling attachment, and the shape of the Stark grip that's why I bought & installed it. Only thing different I'd do with them while manufacturing is to rubberize them more.
That's just my opinion. It has an oddball look to me. Like I said, it's a very comfortable grip and it served it's purpose for me; filling in for my botched trigger guard removal. Have to say, I was skeptical about how solid the sling attachment would be but it held up for me in the 18 or so months I had it. When I replaced my lower recently, I went with a Magpul K grip fwiw.
Your upper and lower is MPI, HPT, and shot peened?:confused:
I was referring to the BCG of course....and yes, my trigger will be polished for better results. Non-the-less I appreciate your kind remarks.
Please refrain from making silly uninformed comments that will embarrass you later.
What's good for the goose......but I appreciate your insight!
I was referring to the BCG of course....and yes, my trigger will be polished for better results. Non-the-less I appreciate your kind remarks.
Good luck, I hope you reach the desired trigger pull.
Good luck, I hope you reach the desired trigger pull.
Thanks. I know it'll be tricky but I've got to try.
What's good for the goose......
:rolleyes:
munch, I am familiar, do understand, and speced out my upper/lower/BCG for MPI/HPT/shot pinned.....before purchase. Too early in the morning and I didn't make the abbreviations connection. As an engineer I very much appreciate well thought out specs/charts and fully comprehend their purpose in life, as long as they are properly understood and utilized by the user.
As an engineer, you should know how to spell 'peened' :p
Enjoy the weekend
As an engineer, you should know how to spell 'peened' :p
Enjoy the weekend
:cray: :D
Obscenejesster
07-20-13, 21:46
Way to much fail in this thread.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Uh Oh,:eek: you may have stirred the pot a little.:D
it always amazes me when one cant take constructive criticism. you asked for opinions, got them, and then attempted to reject them because they don't jive with your expected praise. i think you are on the wrong site for that. and fyi that kind of "accuracy" can be expected from most any ar rifle. this is not an indication on "quality" or lack thereof. you've had at least 2 people who put more rounds through more rifles in a month than most people will in their entire lives and the response has been less than respectful in my eyes. not making any judgement, just pointing out what i see.
it always amazes me when one cant take constructive criticism. you asked for opinions, got them, and then attempted to reject them because they don't jive with your expected praise. i think you are on the wrong site for that. and fyi that kind of "accuracy" can be expected from most any ar rifle. this is not an indication on "quality" or lack thereof. you've had at least 2 people who put more rounds through more rifles in a month than most people will in their entire lives and the response has been less than respectful in my eyes. not making any judgement, just pointing out what i see.
Kind of what I was thinking, didn't want to be the one to say it. Just take it easy here buddy, stay respectful, and you might learn a few things.;)
it always amazes me when one cant take constructive criticism. you asked for opinions, got them, and then attempted to reject them because they don't jive with your expected praise. i think you are on the wrong site for that. and fyi that kind of "accuracy" can be expected from most any ar rifle. this is not an indication on "quality" or lack thereof. you've had at least 2 people who put more rounds through more rifles in a month than most people will in their entire lives and the response has been less than respectful in my eyes. not making any judgement, just pointing out what i see.
Your post is so wrong in so many ways I won't even take the time to enumerate.
Kind of what I was thinking, didn't want to be the one to say it. Just take it easy here buddy, stay respectful, and you might learn a few things.;)
This experiment was not about accuracy alone, it was about doing something new, for me, in putting an AR together and it turning out as good or better than a store bought product.
Had enough of the snipes and useless arguments around here, see you guys.
This experiment was not about accuracy alone, it was about doing something new, for me, in putting an AR together and it turning out as good or better than a store bought product.
Had enough of the snipes and useless arguments around here, see you guys.
See ya:cray:
SeriousStudent
07-21-13, 21:03
This experiment was not about accuracy alone, it was about doing something new, for me, in putting an AR together and it turning out as good or better than a store bought product.
Had enough of the snipes and useless arguments around here, see you guys.
Splendid! Then we can close this urinary/accuracy/distance/wall-painting contest, and all move onto better things.
When an Industry Professional offers you clues, it's usually wise to heed them.
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