A Few Questions on Your 10mm Auto??

[5.56Geo]

I just acquired a Glock 20sf and have a few questions for those of you that run the 10mm platform in a Glock or any other gun manufacture. I am interested in honest real world input and not FanBoy stories so I come to M4Carbine.

I will use the gun for target shooting, deer hunting and at some point in time may replace my G19 as the HD go to gun. I reload with a Redding T-7 Turret press, not that the type of press matters too much.

Here are my questions;
What bullet weight(s) has worked well for you and are there any to stay away from?
Have you found any real advantage to using aftermarket longer barrels?
For those of you that run the Glock platform what weight recoil spring do you use if not the factory?
Are there any general tips that you would give to someone new to 10mm?

Thanks for the help. -George :)

[Ryno12]

I run a 6" Storm Lake barrel in my SF to make it legal for deer hunting & also because the stock barrel pretty much trashes brass if you plan on reloading. You will gain marginal velocity with a longer barrel. I tend to run hotter 10mm loads, anything from 135-200 grains but mostly the 180gr. I also have a 21# Wolff recoil spring installed. It seems to soften the recoil a bit but it also keeps the ejected brass in my zip code. Many people will say the stock spring is fine. I absolutely love the 10mm. IMO, the most versatile SA cartridge ever made.

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[1_click_off]

I haven't put too many round through my 20sf yet, but just for fun I picked up a set of Dillon 9X25 dies and a 6" LWD barrel. It is neat to sling 90gr at 2000+ fps. Loud, huge fireball, and just plain obnoxious.
I have a gen3 and plan to deer/hog hunt with it this year. Not sure if I will be packing 10mm hard cast, or some heavier than 90gr 9mm FMJ going around 1800fps for the hogs.

Think i will look for some gel tests with the 9X25 before I hunt with it though.

As is sits, I think you will be very happy with the 10mm. Lots of reloading options.

Edit: Springs
I run an uncaptured SS guide rod with a #22 spring when shooting the 9x25. Stock glock setup when shooting 10mm.

[SmithEC]

Whether it be 1911 or Glock, I use a 22 pound spring.

If you are going to use a heavy spring like that, I'd recommend either sticking with the factory guide rod or get a BT guide rod. I use BT because they sell a tool that enables you to change that spring out in about one minute. To change the spring on other steel rods can be almost impossible because of how the rod screws together. 22 pounds is awful stout while trying to screw a rod together. I like ISMI flat wire.

I don't reload. For factory ammo, I like just about anything. Blazer or Remington 180gr are okay. Underwood Ammo 180gr and 200gr XTP HP are real nice.

The only round I'll never shoot again is a 165gr round that Underwood makes. It struck me as particularly brutal. Hand-numbing, actually.

For HD, I keep Double Tap 125gr Barnes TAC XP (full copper) in the handgun.

Longer barrels for someone like me are maybe simply a curiosity. No real need. I wish I'd never bought mine.

The only use I get out of that barrel is pics on the internet.


http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k322/fortkn0x/aG19G20-serial-Copy_zpsa92a6ad3.jpg

[Rayrevolver]

I would get an aftermarket barrel if your pistol produces the Glock Smile. My 1991 Gen 2 G20 did it badly but maybe changes have been since then???

Here is an example, I cannot find my pictures of DoubleTap ammo showing the same results:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/fragadelic/Underwood135/DSC_0016.jpg

I use either a 20, 22, or 24# ISMI spring, can't remember. That was based on the recommendation of folks at GT 10 Ring. Yes it helps keep brass close.

The only ammo I did not like was the 135gr DT at 1600fps. It was high powered but I could never get it to group well.

[Ryno12]

I would get an aftermarket barrel if your pistol produces the Glock Smile. My 1991 Gen 2 G20 did it badly but maybe changes have been since then???

Yeah my Gen 3 from 2011 did the same, even with mild factory loads. I've had quite of few near blowouts from the hotter stuff. Needless to say, my stock barrel didn't stay in for long.

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[HKGuns]

I don't own a 10mm anything, but those gLoCk 10mm's sure look like an accident waiting to happen, are they?

Are they really running that chamber support that close to the edge? I thought gLoCk added a lot more support to their barrels a while ago? I realize there aren't that many 10mm options out there but why not just get one with a properly supported chamber?

[filthy phil]

My gen 4 has handled the buffalo bore and underwood nuclear powered stuff fine. All stock gun.
Just got some uw 200gr xtp im looking fwd to trying out

[Ryno12]

I don't own a 10mm anything, but those gLoCk 10mm's sure look like an accident waiting to happen, are they?

Are they really running that chamber support that close to the edge? I thought gLoCk added a lot more support to their barrels a while ago? I realize there aren't that many 10mm options out there but why not just get one with a properly supported chamber?

There's very few 10mm in production right now, none of which that I can think of have awesome chamber support. I'm not sure about the EAA, assuming it's chamber support is better than the G20 but the Delta Elite is even worse. Not much for options out there. Most factory loads are ok but they're about the equivalent to a .40 and what's the point of those?? IMO, an aftermarket barrel is the way to go for running true 10mm and hotter loads.
Take a guess at which barrel is the OEM.
17193

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[HKGuns]

There's very few 10mm in production right now, none of which that I can think of have awesome chamber support. I'm not sure about the EAA, assuming it's chamber support is better than the G20 but the Delta Elite is even worse. Not much for options out there. Most factory loads are ok but they're about the equivalent to a .40 and what's the point of those?? IMO, an aftermarket barrel is the way to go for running true 10mm and hotter loads.

Thanks for the pictures. That's a bit of a scary amount of support on the OEM barrel. It is hard to believe the Delta Elite is even worse, but I'll take your word for it as I have no experience with this round or its pistols. I have a buddy who recently started packing a 10mm, gLoCk I think, looks to me like he should invest in an aftermarket barrel just to be safe.

(I think I'll just stick with my .44Mag six gun.)

[Ryno12]

It really depends on what he's using it for, what ammo he's using & if he reloads. Many others had success with a stock setup. Mine trashed brass & I needed a longer barrel for hunting so I opted for an aftermarket one. I can't say this is always the case but I did lose some reliability with it though. I had to do some polishing to get it back to feeding 100% of the time. If he's using it for personal protection, that should be something to consider. IMO, Underwood makes some good ammo for the 10. I shoot their 200gr XTP for deer hunting. They also have specific loads for the Delta Elite (or anything that lacks case support).

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[Hogsgunwild]

I had a Gen 2 from 1991 to 2003 that I fed my reloads and bulk reloaded ammo. I did have a KKM barrel due to reloading and it was the same length as the stock barrel. It was no more accurate than the stock barrel but was mandatory for shooting cast / non-jacketed reloads. Have also had a Colt DGC (moderately customized) for the last 12 years and bought a Gen 4 G20 this year.

I always favored 180 gr. bullets over all other weights. It was a healthy weight for penetration and yet had a flat enough trajectory for anything that I ever did. I used to enjoy shooting the Glock and Colt at the 300 yard gong in Mesa at the Rio Salado range. Required some Kentucky windage, but, you could get intermittent hits. If I were hunting, the only other weight that I might consider would be a heavier one like a 200 or 220, but, 180 would certainly work on deer.

I never felt that the longer barrels were worth the minimal return in increased velocity. Between the need to modify or change holsters and the ugly appearance, I would also be one to move up to my .44 Magnum if I needed anything more than what my 10MMs offered.
I will mention a couple of items regarding finding ammo when you are not reloading (like me in recent years). Stay away from Bitterroot Valley Ammo (BVAC). I still have about 500 rounds of this crap. I can deal with it being weak but this crap is horrendous for accuracy.
I can't shoot it at a range as it is so bad that you gain nothing by practicing with it except making those around you think you are a crappy shooter. I am saving it to do speed work on steel in the desert someday. It is the kind of ammo you consider getting a bullet puller for.
Next up, I normally do not care for UMC ammo as it is dirty and generally not that great of a value, but, in 10MM, UMC's green and white box ammo is not bad for the money. It has been very accurate
in my Colt and Gen 4 G20, plus, it launches a 180gr. bullet at
1200 FPS. If you use Ammoengine type of websites, I have managed to find this ammo (on several occasions, in good quantities and reasonably priced) when I was starting to lose hope of finding anything that wasn't a total ream job.

[Ryno12]

Stay away from Bitterroot Valley Ammo (BVAC). I still have about 500 rounds of this crap.

That's what I almost had blowouts from. They left some nasty bulges. I wish I had saved some cases to take pictures of. I still have some left too, if I get bored, maybe I'll throw in the stock barrel and pop off a few rounds. I'm not sure if they always used it but the stuff I have is Armscor brass.

[5.56Geo]

Thanks for the replies guys, this is exactly what I was looking for.;) I just processed 250 pieces of brass and didn't notice any Glock smiles on any of them, I guess that's a good thing. I was looking at the picture that Rayrevolver posted of the spent brass and it almost seems like the pressure was still building and expanding the case as the it started to eject the case and go out of battery. it would be interesting to know what powder was used on those loads???

I was looking at my G20sf barrel and it looks like it is better supported than the picture Ryno12 posted of his factory barrel, I will post pictures. My Glock has a born on date of late 2011, don't know that it matters. Thanks -George

[M_Rapp]

I carry my Gen3 G20SF pretty much every time I am in the outdoors up here in Alaska. Before I ever even fired the pistol I bought a Lone Wolf factory length barrel. OEM barrel does not have a round through it. No other modifications were done, but I desperately need to get some new sights. About wore the front sight off drawing from my woods set up... It was pretty accurate up to that point.. :)

Ammo....
To get me started I bought 500 rounds of American Eagle 180gr. Shot that a bit to get a feel for the pistol. Its a good shooter. I then purchased 100 rounds of DT 10mm 200gr WFNGC Hardcast. Shot a box, they are a handful, but manageable. I use them as woods bullets and purchased a few boxes of the bullets themselves for reloading in the future.

I'm still looking for a good 180gr Self Defense load for when I carry this in the winter.

[Ron3]

I enjoy my G20sf, no problems.

It's a 2011 or 2012 model IIRC and it has more case support than the 2nd gen G20 I used to have.

The old G20 I had would bulge on factory Hornady 200 gr XTP. The G20sf not only doesn't bulge on this same ammo (same lot #) but there is barely any stretching on Underwood 200gr XTP that is loaded 150 fps or so faster. (1035 vs around 1200 fps)

The G20sf is a little big and heavy to carry concealed day after day after day. (but it can be done) The G19 is more pleasant to carry for sure.

Hot 10mm loads are a nice option. But IMO having a more pleasant experience (For the shooter and pistol) firing a-little-hotter-than-.40 loads is reason enough to have a 10mm Glock.

Oh, your questions:

-I don't think a longer barrel or aftermarket would do anything for me
-The stock recoil spring is fine for the majority of loads, replace it a little sooner if you like
-I like 180 gr bullets
-Don't screw with the recoil spring / guide rod, or barrel unless you get bad bulges or want to fire lead bullets. You will decrease the reliability of the weapon. I've been there.

[crazymoose]

I run a 6" Storm Lake barrel in my SF to make it legal for deer hunting & also because the stock barrel pretty much trashes brass if you plan on reloading. You will gain marginal velocity with a longer barrel. I tend to run hotter 10mm loads, anything from 135-200 grains but mostly the 180gr. I also have a 21# Wolff recoil spring installed. It seems to soften the recoil a bit but it also keeps the ejected brass in my zip code. Many people will say the stock spring is fine. I absolutely love the 10mm. IMO, the most versatile SA cartridge ever made.

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Have you chrono'd stock vs. extended barrels? I ask because Glock OEM polygonal nitrided barrels tend to produce measurably better velocity than conventional barrels, even in longer lengths. With the right loading, I wouldn't be surprised if the 10 could take advantage of the longer barrel for extra velocity, but I'd always assumed that, even in this chambering, the OEM barrel would shoot faster.

[PatrioticDisorder]

Whether it be 1911 or Glock, I use a 22 pound spring.

If you are going to use a heavy spring like that, I'd recommend either sticking with the factory guide rod or get a BT guide rod. I use BT because they sell a tool that enables you to change that spring out in about one minute. To change the spring on other steel rods can be almost impossible because of how the rod screws together. 22 pounds is awful stout while trying to screw a rod together. I like ISMI flat wire.

I don't reload. For factory ammo, I like just about anything. Blazer or Remington 180gr are okay. Underwood Ammo 180gr and 200gr XTP HP are real nice.

The only round I'll never shoot again is a 165gr round that Underwood makes. It struck me as particularly brutal. Hand-numbing, actually.

For HD, I keep Double Tap 125gr Barnes TAC XP (full copper) in the handgun.

Longer barrels for someone like me are maybe simply a curiosity. No real need. I wish I'd never bought mine.

The only use I get out of that barrel is pics on the internet.


http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k322/fortkn0x/aG19G20-serial-Copy_zpsa92a6ad3.jpg

How is your RMR holding up under the G20 recoil? Any issues with the zero shifting? I'm tempted to buy an M&P CORE .40, but I keep hearing about RMRs losing their zero from recoil (even from 9mm), so I've been on the fence about getting on.

[Ryno12]

Have you chrono'd stock vs. extended barrels?

I have. I looked for some chrono sheets from my initial test of the 6" SL but I couldn't find them. I did run across some load data on a practice load & they averaged about 100'/sec faster through the 6" up to almost 200'/sec. From what I remember, most higher power loads were usually about 150'/sec fast with the 6" barrel.

PD, I also run a slide mounted RDS (Burris FF2 w/ a dovetail mount) & never had any issues losing zero.

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[Rayrevolver]

How is your RMR holding up under the G20 recoil? Any issues with the zero shifting? I'm tempted to buy an M&P CORE .40, but I keep hearing about RMRs losing their zero from recoil (even from 9mm), so I've been on the fence about getting on.

DocGKR has a thread (could be on M4C, don't remember where I read it) where he talked about using RMRs on duty pistols.

I wish I could link you to it. I remember the standard LED RMR worked fine but they had issues with the adjustable RMR walking. Maybe need to ping him for the info.

[ramairthree]

I'm down to just a 1086 in 10mm.
Not the pistol to be bragging about accuracy, etc. in due to short barrel length and horrible DA trigger.

But,

I ran 180g JHP at 1200 fps.

Maybe not as stout as the original Norma 200g loads at the same fps, but stronger than the average factory loading these days.

[SmithEC]

How is your RMR holding up under the G20 recoil? Any issues with the zero shifting? I'm tempted to buy an M&P CORE .40, but I keep hearing about RMRs losing their zero from recoil (even from 9mm), so I've been on the fence about getting on.

I've had that RM07 on the G20sf for less than 300 rounds, so I can't speak to whether or not it may eventually shift. This with Underwood 200gr XTP HP, so far. Maybe 270 rounds.

I've put probably about 2000 rounds through the G19 and RM02 with no indication that there has been any shift.

.

[PatrioticDisorder]

I've had that RM07 on the G20sf for less than 300 rounds, so I can't speak to whether or not it may eventually shift. This with Underwood 200gr XTP HP, so far. Maybe 270 rounds.

I've put probably about 2000 rounds through the G19 and RM02 with no indication that there has been any shift.

.

That's definitely comforting to hear. I've read one hypothesis to the zero shift problem on the RMRs stemming from not tightening it down properly to the pistol and the small amount of wiggle room being the culprit.

[misanthropist]

Here are my questions;
What bullet weight(s) has worked well for you and are there any to stay away from?
Have you found any real advantage to using aftermarket longer barrels?
For those of you that run the Glock platform what weight recoil spring do you use if not the factory?
Are there any general tips that you would give to someone new to 10mm?



1) I mainly use 180s, primarily because of availability.

2) no

3) I use the factory spring.

4) It's a cult round but it's also a good round. Don't buy in to the mythology; it's just a pistol round with penetration numbers greater than are really useful on people. Follow up shots will be slower than a 9mm. Work around the limitations of the cartridge and make use of its strengths.



Flawless, sub-moa fit and finish...all day long.

[pinzgauer]

Shooting a Delta, I mostly shoot 165 fairly hot as I was approximating 357 performance. Flatter shooting for hunting, slightly lower recoil than the heavier bullet hot loads. Have loaded 200+ gr for 45'ish loads. Pretty versatile.

In 1911 platform it has more sting to the hand than a 45, much like a hot 357. But less muzzle rise/rock than stout 45 loads. If you can shoot a 45 fast with defensive loads you can also shoot 10mm well.

---sent from my PRC-104 using phonetics

[Ron3]

Keep in mind 10mm doesn't have to have the decreased reliability and slower split times you get from full-powered ammo.

180gr bullets at 950 fps are a joy to fire from a glock 10mm! Kicks like 147gr 9x19 to me.