View Full Version : hollywood consulting. why is it so bad?
http://www.technewsdaily.com/15413-seals-medal-honor-consulting.html
another thread made me think of this news article from a while back. personally i feel like there's no reason these dudes should have gotten in trouble if the producers of medal of honor just went to the appropriate source(s) for consulting.
it's not as if many of the top trainers in this world wouldn't do some motion capture of a reload or there aren't other professionals that can show how explosive devices are assembled.
is it just that these big production houses don't know where to go? is it that they generally don't care enough about how honest that final product is?
why is hollywood and the gaming industry so terrible at producing physically accurate, tactially believable media for us to consume?
http://www.technewsdaily.com/15413-seals-medal-honor-consulting.html
another thread made me think of this news article from a while back. personally i feel like there's no reason these dudes should have gotten in trouble if the producers of medal of honor just went to the appropriate source(s) for consulting.
it's not as if many of the top trainers in this world wouldn't do some motion capture of a reload or there aren't other professionals that can show how explosive devices are assembled.
is it just that these big production houses don't know where to go? is it that they generally don't care enough about how honest that final product is?
why is hollywood and the gaming industry so terrible at producing physically accurate, tactially believable media for us to consume?
They get great consultants. But realistic movies don't necessarily make good movies. It's the same reason why there are maybe 3 movies total that realistically show hacking and very very few movies with a science theme that has accurate science. I'm not even a physicist by trade and I can spot bad science everywhere! Almost every movie that tries to be historically accurate also intentionally changes things to make a better plot.
At some point you just have to ignore the unrealistic nature of movies, add it to your willful suspense of disbelief, and be entertained by random shit.
They get great consultants. But realistic movies don't necessarily make good movies. It's the same reason why there are maybe 3 movies total that realistically show hacking and very very few movies with a science theme that has accurate science. I'm not even a physicist by trade and I can spot bad science everywhere! Almost every movie that tries to be historically accurate also intentionally changes things to make a better plot.
At some point you just have to ignore the unrealistic nature of movies, add it to your willful suspense of disbelief, and be entertained by random shit.
Sir, are you implying Hackers (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113243/) is not based on reality? Hogwash I say!
[/tapatalk]
Sir, are you implying Hackers (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113243/) is not based on reality? Hogwash I say!
[/tapatalk]
Surprisingly, Matrix 2 had realistic hacking.
At some point you just have to ignore the unrealistic nature of movies, add it to your willful suspense of disbelief, and be entertained by random shit.
"The Expendables" captured this perfectly.
I often wonder if the movie producers/director just plain override what the tech advisors have trained their actors to do to make a great movie.
Example: Harry Humphries was a tech advisor on Black Hawk Down (best-to me- so far as weapons manipulation and so forth. Yet he also was a technical advisor on The Rock.........well at least that movie had Ed Harris in it. :confused:
-Jax
I can't believe the people who actually base their thoughts about life on the movies and TV programs they watch. IMHO movies usually suck and are no more than mindless entertainment catering to mostly ignorant to facts viewers.
http://www.technewsdaily.com/15413-seals-medal-honor-consulting.html
another thread made me think of this news article from a while back. personally i feel like there's no reason these dudes should have gotten in trouble if the producers of medal of honor just went to the appropriate source(s) for consulting.
it's not as if many of the top trainers in this world wouldn't do some motion capture of a reload or there aren't other professionals that can show how explosive devices are assembled.
is it just that these big production houses don't know where to go? is it that they generally don't care enough about how honest that final product is?
why is hollywood and the gaming industry so terrible at producing physically accurate, tactially believable media for us to consume?
Well to be honest if the SEALs had remembered some of the stuff in the UCMJ they would have known that doing this without permission is a no no as I recall.
As for Hollywierd going to them instead of other civilian instructors who are SMEs, which do you think is gonna sell better:
"we patterned character behavior based on observations of Veterans"
"we patterned character behavior based on observations of realo life, honest to God super amazing active duty (insert branch and MOS here"
Face it sex sells. Heather Locklear may still have it going on, but not in the same way that today's 21 year old hot thing will have it.
is it just that these big production houses don't know where to go? is it that they generally don't care enough about how honest that final product is?
why is hollywood and the gaming industry so terrible at producing physically accurate, tactially believable media for us to consume?
They get great consultants. But realistic movies don't necessarily make good movies.
^ What he said.
A good example is the use of C-More sights in lots of movies. The reason? The camera can see more (see what I did there...?) of the actor's face when it's behind the gun.
Kills me seeing all the C-More sights. I swear if I see a C-More sight in the upcoming Lone Survivor movie or the movie on Chris Kyle I am going to choke a newborn baby rabbit, puppy, and kitten.
-Jax
Kills me seeing all the C-More sights. I swear if I see a C-More sight in the upcoming Lone Survivor movie or the movie on Chris Kyle I am going to choke a newborn baby rabbit, puppy, and kitten.
-Jax
The Luttrel brothers were on set a few different times during production, and I haven't heard from my friends who worked that production about them laughing/sighing at that sort of stupidity. We'll see, but it sounds like it might be done right.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj7rriDFirU
this is the first of the 9 videos that the consultants got in trouble for helping produce. now that i've seen the videos i can kinda see that it would be upsetting that they divulged that much about tactics and maybe even equipment.
i feel like there have been a few movies that had excellent consulting and result in great life-like results on screen. very few though.
i don't expect most actors to really take the training seriously. i mean if we look around us, not too many people do things with the hyper diligence that m4carbine is accustomed to.
so much of the manipulations are just slop and nonsensical though. most of the movements are retarded. i suppose professionalism doesn't go a long way when you can just pull the wool over the general public's eyes and they're begging for the wool to be pulled down lower.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj7rriDFirU
this is the first of the 9 videos that the consultants got in trouble for helping produce. now that i've seen the videos i can kinda see that it would be upsetting that they divulged that much about tactics and maybe even equipment.
Certain elements of the military have always had a schizophrenic outlook on certain aspects of OPSEC. The go to crazy extremes over some things that don't matter, and then get all fired up over the "release" of something else that doesn't matter, meanwhile giving unprecedented access to others. The navy has always been the worst about it. In the 1980's/90's, "The Hunt for Red October" was fine but, "Navy SEALs" was taboo.
The Luttrel brothers were on set a few different times during production, and I haven't heard from my friends who worked that production about them laughing/sighing at that sort of stupidity. We'll see, but it sounds like it might be done right.
Cool deal. Sounds promising. Keep us posted if you hear anything interesting.
-Jax
skullworks
07-02-13, 14:20
I was a technical advisor for a mini-series over here, and I can tell you that the director had no problems leaving reality by the wayside "for the benefit of the story."
Oh well, at least I got to be a stand-in hand model...
Tapatapatapatalk
Moose-Knuckle
07-02-13, 16:04
Retired SAS Mick Gould has been a technical advisor on the best shooter movies to date; Heat, Collateral, Public Enemies, Miami Vice, Ronin, Taken to name a few.
CSM Eric Haney retired 1st SFOD-D also has consulted for several films and TV series; Spartan, The Unit.
Retired SAS Mick Gould has been a technical advisor on the best shooter movies to date; Heat, Collateral, Public Enemies, Miami Vice, Ronin, Taken to name a few.
CSM Eric Haney retired 1st SFOD-D also has consulted for several films and TV series; Spartan, The Unit.
Which is why Michael Mann NEEDS to do a movie concerning modern warfare set in Iraq/Afghanistan. ;) 4 of the 6 movies you mentioned (as I am sure you know) he directed.
I nominate Michael Mann to direct the movie about Chris Kyle with LAV, Dano, & Big Joe as tech advisors.:)
-Jax
MountainRaven
07-02-13, 19:35
^ What he said.
A good example is the use of C-More sights in lots of movies. The reason? The camera can see more (see what I did there...?) of the actor's face when it's behind the gun.
Pretty much the same reason why most of the time, if actors are actually trained/instructed to use a real shooting position with a handgun, they'll be running weaver, instead of isosceles.
Kills me seeing all the C-More sights. I swear if I see a C-More sight in the upcoming Lone Survivor movie or the movie on Chris Kyle I am going to choke a newborn baby rabbit, puppy, and kitten.
-Jax
I haven't seen many C-Mores in recent movies. Low-budget network TV shows? Yeah. It's usually either C-Mores or crappy Chinese RDSs and Airsoft-quality 'ACOGs'.
Which is why Michael Mann NEEDS to do a movie concerning modern warfare set in Iraq/Afghanistan. ;) 4 of the 6 movies you mentioned (as I am sure you know) he directed.
I nominate Michael Mann to direct the movie about Chris Kyle with LAV, Dano, & Big Joe as tech advisors.:)
-Jax
One thing about Michael Mann - and this is not a bad thing, especially not in a movie, and I feel less ambivalent about it having just read Sebastian Junger's War (in one section of the book an intercepted radio communication between Talibs is detailed to have one of the guys saying that maybe they should stop attacking the Americans if they're building roads and clinics) - is that he will make the bad guys professional and oddly admirable. Some people will find the idea of making (some small group or individual involved with) Iraqi insurgents or Taliban fighters easily relatable, professional, and curiously admirable offensive.
The other thing is that his movies are overwhelmingly crime dramas. I don't think he has ever done a war movie. Might be a good change of pace for him, though.
dookie1481
07-02-13, 23:44
Surprisingly, Matrix 2 had realistic hacking.
When Trinity is using Nmap in the power plant?
When Trinity is using Nmap in the power plant?
Yeah, then uses a real (but renamed and old by then) exploit in SSH.
I often wonder if the movie producers/director just plain override what the tech advisors have trained their actors to do to make a great movie.
Example: Harry Humphries was a tech advisor on Black Hawk Down (best-to me- so far as weapons manipulation and so forth. Yet he also was a technical advisor on The Rock.........well at least that movie had Ed Harris in it. :confused:
-Jax
Ed Harris is a complete dickhead IRL. :mad:
Retired SAS Mick Gould has been a technical advisor on the best shooter movies to date; Heat, Collateral, Public Enemies, Miami Vice, Ronin, Taken to name a few.
CSM Eric Haney retired 1st SFOD-D also has consulted for several films and TV series; Spartan, The Unit.
Several of those movies have one thing in common, Michael Mann. He seems to be the best director for producing semi-realistic action scenes. My wife hates watching his movies with me the 1st time. I'll say what I would do and then the guy on screen does something the same or similar. She'll say "I thought you hadn't seen this before?" :D
Moose-Knuckle
07-03-13, 01:30
The other thing is that his movies are overwhelmingly crime dramas. I don't think he has ever done a war movie. Might be a good change of pace for him, though.
Crime sagas are his true medium and his preferred genre. He was however the Executive Producer for The Kingdom (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0431197/). As for War movies, he did direct The Last of the Mohicans (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104691/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1) set during The French and Indian War (1754-1763). IMHO one of the best films ever made and the soundtrack is up there too.
Moose-Knuckle
07-03-13, 01:34
Several of those movies have one thing in common, Michael Mann. He seems to be the best director for producing semi-realistic action scenes. My wife hates watching his movies with me the 1st time. I'll say what I would do and then the guy on screen does something the same or similar. She'll say "I thought you hadn't seen this before?" :D
Yeap, Michael Mann is by far my favorite director. VooDoo6Actual brought it to my attention that Mann uses Mick Gould as a technical consultant on all of his films. He puts all of the actors in Mann's films through several weeks of small arms training during pre-production. It really polishes them up and makes for realistic action scenes.
brickboy240
07-03-13, 11:13
I still love it when I hear a hammer cock when an actor pulls out a Glock.
Or how the entire SWAT team waits until they enter a building to rack every MP5, pump shotty and AR.
What else would we have to laugh at?
-brickboy240
I often wonder if the movie producers/director just plain override what the tech advisors have trained their actors to do to make a great movie.
Example: Harry Humphries was a tech advisor on Black Hawk Down (best-to me- so far as weapons manipulation and so forth. Yet he also was a technical advisor on The Rock.........well at least that movie had Ed Harris in it. :confused:
-Jax
And Sean Connery!!
I think most of the training actors get usually is gun handling not tactics.
I was a technical advisor for a mini-series over here, and I can tell you that the director had no problems leaving reality by the wayside "for the benefit of the story."
Oh well, at least I got to be a stand-in hand model...
Tapatapatapatalk
I do sound effects for movies and games. Realism is largely frowned upon on my end of things, because it's underwhelming to the masses. Guns and explosions, without the "being there" factor, just don't hold their own against huge cinematic music. Sad, but true. I do my best to use accurate sounds, but they're always layered and beefed up. For decades people have been exposed to a different "cinematic reality" and typically when folks hear what things actually sounded like on set, they're VERY disappointed and think it's "wrong". I actually worked on a couple of the EA Warfighter trailers...
Oh, and Michael Mann is a nightmare to work for. Friends in sound and VFX have horror stories about him.
skullworks
07-03-13, 14:10
As I recall Mann used a Swedish sound director in HEAT. That gunfire rolling down the street...
Goosebumps. :o
Tapatapatapatalk
As I recall Mann used a Swedish sound director in HEAT. That gunfire rolling down the street...
Goosebumps. :o
Tapatapatapatalk
He's of Swedish descent, but he works at Soundelux in Hollywood. And there are some interesting stories about the gunfire sounds in Heat. They actually DID use a lot of the real sounds in that movie, but VERY carefully augmented and mixed. Heat is more of the exception than the rule when it comes to film gun sounds (and I agree that movie sounded great). The reverb of gunshots in urban areas is very hard to re-create with electronics, even the latest convolution reverbs.
skullworks
07-03-13, 15:45
He's of Swedish descent, but he works at Soundelux in Hollywood.
Not important to the discussion, but Per Hallberg (the person we're talking about) was born in Sweden even though he's spent most of his career in Hollywood (and seems to be a frequent collaborator of Mann's.)
Tapatapatapatalk
Not important to the discussion, but Per Hallberg (the person we're talking about) was born in Sweden even though he's spent most of his career in Hollywood (and seems to be a frequent collaborator of Mann's.)
Tapatapatapatalk
Mann has a nasty habit of burning relationships with folks, I'll leave it at that. Per's a nice guy, I've met him a couple times. Lots of talent at Soundelux. I work with them and their game division occasionally.
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