View Full Version : Anybody used Parabellum Research Customer Brass Program?
I ask because I sent in about 150 once fired tumbled brass to be reloaded and received this back. Notice the horrible shoulders.
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=17216&d=1372778744
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=17217&d=1372778748
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=17218&d=1372778751
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=17219&d=1372778755
No but I would send that stuff back. If they received damaged brass they should never have loaded it. They obviously messed up your brass and need to replace it.
arizona98tj
07-03-13, 20:59
Those suck a bunch.
goodoleboy
07-03-13, 22:09
Those clowns apparently don't have a clue about what they are doing. They overcrimpped the hell out of those cases, so much so that they crushed the shoulders on some of them, as I am sure you know. That isn't something that would have happened in the resizing process, that all happened in the seating stage.
RearwardAssist
07-03-13, 22:12
Those clowns apparently don't have a clue about what they are doing. They overcrimpped the hell out of those cases, so much so that they crushed the shoulders on some of them, as I am sure you know. That isn't something that would have happened in the resizing process, that all happened in the seating stage.
This is exactly what happend.
Those clowns apparently don't have a clue about what they are doing. They overcrimpped the hell out of those cases, so much so that they crushed the shoulders on some of them, as I am sure you know. That isn't something that would have happened in the resizing process, that all happened in the seating stage.
Yep I was told it looks like they used a roll crimp die or a seating/roll crimp combo die where the case length is important versus a factory crimp die where case length isn't supposed to matter as much. They said they spot check brass length so they were supposed to let me know any that needed trimmed and charge me a small fee. Spot checking to them is the first 3 cases out of 140. I'm serious. They basically blamed me for sending in untrimmed brass or not telling them it would need trimming after FL sizing. Kept insisting that the person gaging the brass length and headspace of loaded ammo would have rejected them. I said I know what I sent you and know what I got back so I don't care who messed up or who you say wouldn't have messed up.
I paid to ship the ammo back over a month ago and I'm being told they're de-processing it to find out what went wrong and try to save as much of my brass as possible. I personally think they should just send me new reman ammo for my trouble and stop wasting my time. I get the feeling they don't have the brass to replace what's damaged.
I'll see if they finally make it good. I don't know what they don't understand about the customer is always right and don't start denying wrongdoing before you know the facts. I'm laughing about it at this point as a lesson learned. I expect by the time I get this back I'll be loading my own.
I've had that happen when my crimp die gets dirty and clogged up. It's a LEE FCD. And when it seizes up due to filth, it'll crush shoulders like that.
I've had that happen when my crimp die gets dirty and clogged up. It's a LEE FCD. And when it seizes up due to filth, it'll crush shoulders like that.
That may be true but it's my understanding that even a clean roll crimp die can do this is why people prefer the Lee FCD. Is that your experience? So as long as you keep the FCD clean it's the best?
I've had good luck with the LEE. I originally used it because I didn't want to trim brass.
Hard to say... some people have better luck with NO crimp... I just set it to give me a light crimp and it's been pretty good to me.
I've also had that happen with my seating die. I had it screwed too far into the press but still got the proper OAL because I had backed out the seating gauge to make up for it. Stupid me. Didn't even notice it till I had seated about 50 rounds.
So I finally got to shoot the ammo and out of about 50 or so rounds it was good. One round didn't fully chamber so the bolt didn't close and misfired. The round wouldn't eject as hard as I pulled on the charging handle so I closed the bolt by hand, cocked the hammer, and it shot fine.
All of this after the owner said he personally checked the rounds by hand :)
No admission of the screw up or apologies but I didn't expect one. I haven't added the cost of the return shipping to see what it actually cost me per round. Anyway, I reloaded some Speer 90gr TNT and they shot better anyway.
Never again.
Raven Armament
08-07-13, 00:47
I don't know what they don't understand about the customer is always right
That policy is for morons. The customer isn't always right. That's the plain truth. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't, but never "always".
Raven Armament
08-07-13, 00:53
No admission of the screw up or apologies but I didn't expect one.
That's unfortunate. The loading process got messed up and they were the ones that did it. If I had missed something like that, an apology, remedy, and consideration for expenses would have been warranted without question.
That policy is for morons. The customer isn't always right. That's the plain truth. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't, but never "always".
It's a business motto been around for years not meant to be take literally. If you run a fast food chain and a customer complains you replace the food no questions asked because 9.99/10 customers won't have a problem if you run a reputable business. If the same guy keeps coming in buying food and complains every time you see a pattern. Instead of just replacing 150 rounds of ammo (according to him, he does thousands of rounds and only agreed to stuff mine in on the end of a bigger batch) he starts doubting me as soon as I asked him if he would fix it.
I'm a little unclear on how that ammunition came from us, it wouldn't pass our gage like that and we gage everything before it goes out. I'm looking at my notes on your invoice and it looks like we loaded your brass as is, which is standard for rifle, which means it hit the FL and was then loaded using the same setup as our normal production brass. It is even stranger since we loaded out a couple other customer's brass at the same time and they shot it without any issues and gave it back to be loaded again.
Quote from their website...
All brass will be spot checked to ensure it is within tolerances before loading and like dirty brass, it will not be loaded.
On rifle brass, we try to be very specific when we say that we don't process it for customers by default. So if you don't process it or pay us to do it, it gets loaded as-is. Our process is to typically spot check 2 or 3 cases, and if they are under the max, we'll load them. That is not the recommended trim to, that is the max case length allowed, which is not the same thing.
So, the fact that all of our cases in the Value Line, which we processed, worked fine would seem to indicate the issue is with the brass. Now, we expect our customers to do their due diligence when sending us brass, which is why we call out rifle specifically because we can't sample every case and pistol brass almost never requires trimming. It is a balance we have tried hard to strike and as in this situation, isn't always easy one as the responsibility for the brass is ultimately on our customer's shoulders.
That policy is for morons. :D Spot checking to anybody with common sense isn't to check the first 2 or 3 cases and load the rest of the brass. What if they brass the customer sent is all shit? He's stuffing shit brass into a reloading line and shipping dangerous ammo back to a customer.
To top that off, he questions me like I have a reason to lie to him over a small batch of ammo. Then he makes me pay shipping back to him, makes me wait over a month while he pulls the ammo back apart then doesn't refund me the shipping back to him even when he finds out the ammo did actually come from him.
Raven Armament
08-07-13, 10:32
That policy is for morons. :D Spot checking to anybody with common sense isn't to check the first 2 or 3 cases and load the rest of the brass. What if they brass the customer sent is all shit? He's stuffing shit brass into a reloading line and shipping dangerous ammo back to a customer.
I agree. Spot checking or batch checking is for morons asking for trouble. When I take in customer brass, every piece is inspected and processed (if needed), no matter if it's 200 pieces or 2,000 pieces. Every case and round of ammo gets checked individually.
If a manufacturer is going to accept customer brass to reload and cannot dedicate the time and labor to inspect each individual piece of brass and loaded ammunition, then the manufacturer should take that as a hint and not offer the service in the first place.
A 2-3 piece sample passing inspection and the rest "should be good enough" is indeed a policy for morons.
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