View Full Version : Thoughts on remanufactured ammunition?
Hello m4carbine.net
I was wondering what people's thoughts are on purchasing and using remanufactured ammo from the various reman ammo companies I keep seeing. I like many of you have taken a serious hit to my practice schedule due to the ammo craziness, but i see affordable prices on brass cased reman ammo from the likes of freedom munitions and lax ammo. Does anyone have bad experiences using remanufactured ammo for practice and training only? I'm only interested in 9mm and it will only be shot out of my training gun, not my carry guns. Before the madness I was shooting 1200-1500 rounds of 9mm a month but I'm down to shooting about 300 a month now. I would like to at least double that number.
I used to use remanufactured ammo form a place in IN called Precision Cartidge (or something like that). (Our local PD also bought large amounts from them for practice.) I was highly impressed - and saved money in the process. They used - I believe - only once-fired brass, and it looked 95% as good as new ammo. Now, hoever - they only supply to their "large" customers like PDs, so I am looking for other sources of reman ammo (9mm & .45) for personal use, i.e., a few thousand rounds at a time.
john
Have had some good experiences back in the day. Could buy local re-manufactured ammo at a lower price and other then generally being dirtier it worked fine as range ammo. However, locally one of the two local places, the last 500rds I bought in .40 were loaded light as hell and would not reliably cycle a pistol. The other place that is local is selling their ammo at or above what I can be new manufacture for, guess which I choose?
I got a call from "a guy" last night who saw two guns get blode to bits by some jookie reman ammo. One of which was his. :eek:
Reman in and of itself isn't bad.... if done right.
If your reman vendor assures you that your ammo is loaded with once-fired brass, yet reminds you repeatedly to send your brass back in when done...danger.
I got a call from "a guy" last night who saw two guns get blode to bits by some jookie reman ammo. One of which was his. :eek:
Reman in and of itself isn't bad.... if done right.
223/556 or 9mm?
223/556 or 9mm?
223. PM sent.
shadenfreude
07-03-13, 12:35
I think the supply of once fired military brass is being destroyed before the civilian market can get their hands on it
Hello m4carbine.net
I was wondering what people's thoughts are on purchasing and using remanufactured ammo from the various reman ammo companies I keep seeing. I like many of you have taken a serious hit to my practice schedule due to the ammo craziness, but i see affordable prices on brass cased reman ammo from the likes of freedom munitions and lax ammo. Does anyone have bad experiences using remanufactured ammo for practice and training only? I'm only interested in 9mm and it will only be shot out of my training gun, not my carry guns. Before the madness I was shooting 1200-1500 rounds of 9mm a month but I'm down to shooting about 300 a month now. I would like to at least double that number.
How much were you paying for ammo before? I think around $.20 a round for brass cased ammo was about standard before looking at order histories for early 2012. I regularly can find brass cased ammo for $.33 a round right now and steel case at $.29 to $.31 a round.
Putting the math to it:
1200/.20 = $240 a month
$240/.33 =~ 720 rounds a month at current prices so you are well over double the 300 mark.
And a lot of the reman ammo I see listed for sale is in the $.30-34 range so you aren't saving much at all.
That said, I would be hard pressed to trust reloaded ammo right now. People are pushing QC standards and workers into over time to get ammo out the door. Or just flat telling lies. I just got back from a class where the guy brought 2000 rounds of "reloaded" ammo down. It kept not lighting off and one time it did light off either it didn't extract or was too hot. Blew the extractor out of his glock in half. I've got a cut on my calf where it hit me. We started looking at the ammo and it was a mix of some crap reloads and mostly milsurp egyption sub gun ammo. It worked great in an mp5 and uzi but it was not handgun friendly.
So why must they use once fire cases? I've reloaded .223 and pistol rounds many times! Once fired or 5 times fired whats the big deal as long as the case are not showing any signs of cracks, seperations, primer pocket still tight reload it!:rolleyes: Funny I could have sworn Black Hills ammo started out as a Reman ammo co.:D
Straight Shooter
07-03-13, 15:43
Last year I chrono'ed some ammo from ZERO MFG. I THINK they are located here in Alabama.
This SHIT was f-ing dangerous as hell. I cant find my log book, but
velocity was as much as 150fps different in most every round. It wound up I wouldn't even finish the box, I literally disposed of them.
It was also absolutely the filthiest crap, and most inaccurate stuff Ive ever seen in 40 years or more of shooting. Like they used charcoal or something. Also had some f-upped zinc-alloy bullet that look like shit.
The 9mm wasn't any better. STAY AWAY FROM ZERO AMMO. Comes in a yellow box.
Funny I could have sworn Black Hills ammo started out as a Reman ammo co.:D
And they're still cranking out slop. :rolleyes:
So why must they use once fire cases? I've reloaded .223 and pistol rounds many times!
You're not a commercial remanufacturer with deep pockets to claim against. :D
Once fired or 5 times fired whats the big deal as long as the case are not showing any signs of cracks, seperations, primer pocket still tight reload it!:rolleyes: Funny I could have sworn Black Hills ammo started out as a Reman ammo co.:D
Brass specs in loads can change without notice, and unless the reloader is privy to them they may have no idea what they're getting or what the safe thresholds will be. They can inspect and test, but it's a cost:benefit.
I've had once-fired cases of known origin fail with loads well within SAAMI specs. The analysis afterward found that the cases were minimally engineered for one firing and failed at consistent intervals when used again.
It was this same minimalist engineering that was consistently found in the case failures of new factory loads in virgin brass early in the Glock .40 "kB!" reports.
I've just bought large sums of some from a well known reman. Shot 800rds of 9mm over the past two weekends without any trouble with Several more cases to go. If you're weary about doing it, just stick to the bigger names.
I have used remanufactured ammo from a couple of places without issue. I know a number of shooters who do the same also without issue. The larger and older re manufacturers are probably safe as they have a track record and generally insurance policies. May not be Winchester or CCI, but they are still deep enough pockets to want to take care of business properly. Random dudes at the local gun show. Not so much.
How much were you paying for ammo before? I think around $.20 a round for brass cased ammo was about standard before looking at order histories for early 2012. I regularly can find brass cased ammo for $.33 a round right now and steel case at $.29 to $.31 a round.
Putting the math to it:
1200/.20 = $240 a month
$240/.33 =~ 720 rounds a month at current prices so you are well over double the 300 mark.
And a lot of the reman ammo I see listed for sale is in the $.30-34 range so you aren't saving much at all.
Your math is spot on, I'm used to spending $200 per 1k and my ammo budget was around 2-300 a month. When sandy hook hit, I had around 3k of 9mm and since I knew I couldn't replenish I reduced my shooting to ~300 a month without buying any new ammo. Now I'm down to less than a case and ammo prices are coming down so that means I can replenish my supply. I haven't bought ammo in 6 months since I refused to have any part in this ridiculous ammo hoarding, and buying at more than 22 cents a round still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Unfortunately I need to shoot so I have no choice but to buy at what I consider still inflated prices. I'm setting a goal to try and shoot every other week at 300 rounds per session as cheaply as possible which is why I'm asking about reloads.
So it seems based on my research and everyone's experiences here that reman'd ammo is generally hit or miss depending on who's reloading it. Big names generally have good track records while smaller less well known places have a poorer record. So has anyone used freedom munitions? They have 9mm reman for 300 a case, and I'm looking to buy at least 2 cases if i can get some decent feedback. I haven't found anything bad on them from a quick google search.
themissinglink
07-03-13, 23:54
No remanufactured in a gun I actually care about. Way too many horror stories about people blowing up guns and narrowly escaping the carnage.
I don't shoot enough to worry about what I could be saving, I'd rather keep my extremities.
I regularly can find brass cased ammo for $.33 a round right now and steel case at $.29 to $.31 a round.
Would you mind sharing where you are finding 223/556 brass cased ammo at that price? About the only thing I have found lately at anything close to that price is Wolf or Tula and it is still closer to $.40 a round in bulk.
I've bought and shot remanufactured ammunition, as long is its from a reputable company loaded to SAAMI specs you should be fine.
If you have any doubts about it at all, then dont shoot it. Safety first.
A nice way to shoot more is reload your own ammo, being careful to follow the safety rules for handloading, keep yourself in spec, be careful and ask questions or get help as you go along.
I regularly can find brass cased ammo for $.33 a round right now and steel case at $.29 to $.31 a round.
Would you mind sharing where you are finding 223/556 brass cased ammo at that price? About the only thing I have found lately at anything close to that price is Wolf or Tula and it is still closer to $.40 a round in bulk.
That's for 9mm, not 556. I'm finding those prices at freedom munitions, and LAX ammo
That's for 9mm, not 556. I'm finding those prices at freedom munitions, and LAX ammo
I figured it was too good to be true. My ammo budget just doesn't go as far as it used to. I have used LAX ammo before and was very happy. I will have to give Freedom Munitions a look. Thanks for the info.
CA_Shooter
07-17-13, 21:24
Freedom Munitions reman reloads are GTG from my personal experience.
I've shot around close to 3-4k rounds of the 9mm 115grn reloads over the last year in various classes, IDPA/USPSA matches and on the range with no issues. This is out of both a Glock 17 and a 19. It's hard to tell from their new loads except for the mixed headstamps. The only negative is during the night shoot portion of a LAV handgun class they tended to produce a larger flash signature than a lot of the factory new ammo used in the same course.
I also shot about 500 rounds of the new manufactured 147grn 9mm through my Glock 17 in IDPA/USPSA matches with I think one FTE. Only problem is they don't produce the 147grn loads that often even before Sandy Hook happened.
I've used close to 700 rounds of the .223 Blaster training ammo in a carbine class last summer and it worked fine in my 6920. Cases weren't as nice looking as the remanned stuff but it all worked fine.
I like that if the ammo is in stock that they are fast to ship and prices are reasonable.
BuzzinSATX
11-19-13, 22:39
I too can attest to Freedom Munitions ammo being good stuff. I don't reload and have shot over 10K in 9, .40, .45, .223, and 5.56
I cannot remember a single round not firing. About 5K was shot during classes at Gunsite...ran fine in our Glocks and XD
And like someone said, they ship fast! What sucks for me is since they opened their Houston store, I now pay sales tax, but still it's cheap as they offer 5% discount to military and LEOs. And their Blaster ammo is fine too.
http://www.freedommunitions.com/category-s/53970.htm
I wouldn't recommend Parabellum Research
https://www.pbrammo.com/pbrs-customer-brass-program
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=17216&d=1372778744
I wouldn't recommend Parabellum Research
https://www.pbrammo.com/pbrs-customer-brass-program
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=17216&d=1372778744
Wow! Did you buy that crap?
Wow! Did you buy that crap?
I sent in once fired brass to be re-manufactured. It's part of their Customer Brass Program. Basically Parabellum Research are idiots.
The short answer is they spot gauge brass length when it arrives.
According to them, "spot" gauge 150 of my shells is to check the first two and roll with it. Lol. It doesn't matter anyway since brass length should be checked after sizing not before.
They blamed me for not trimming my own brass or not letting them know to trim it. Lol.
The mashed shoulders seem to have resulted from them using a roll crimp instead of a taper crimp. Some of it chambered but then even the long brass could've jammed in my bore and caused a pressure spike.
If they would've gauged it after loading about 50% or more would've been rejected. I had to pay to send it back for them to fix it.
When asked if I will buy re-manufactured ammo the answer is hell no. I gladly paid what I did for my reloading equipment to not blow myself up with the risk of anybody elses junk ammo.
I sent in once fired brass to be re-manufactured. It's part of their Customer Brass Program. Basically Parabellum Research are idiots.
The short answer is they spot gauge brass length when it arrives.
According to them, "spot" gauge 150 of my shells is to check the first two and roll with it. Lol. It doesn't matter anyway since brass length should be checked after sizing not before.
They blamed me for not trimming my own brass or not letting them know to trim it. Lol.
The mashed shoulders seem to have resulted from them using a roll crimp instead of a taper crimp. Some of it chambered but then even the long brass could've jammed in my bore and caused a pressure spike.
If they would've gauged it after loading about 50% or more would've been rejected. I had to pay to send it back for them to fix it.
When asked if I will buy re-manufactured ammo the answer is hell no. I gladly paid what I did for my reloading equipment to not blow myself up with the risk of anybody elses junk ammo.
Hehehe
I'm laughing with you...........
No, really, I am. :)
Hehehe
I'm laughing with you...........
No, really, I am. :)
I had been out of ammo for a while, jonesing to shoot and the sun was starting to set. I started loading the crap into my mags as fast as I could and the first couple of rounds fired.
Then the next one wouldn't chamber...WTF?...#2 and #3 no chamber...WTF? I finally stopped trying to shoot the crap knowing something was wrong, take it inside and look at it under the light. Imaging my surprise :D
I had been out of ammo for a while, jonesing to shoot and the sun was starting to set. I started loading the crap into my mags as fast as I could and the first couple of rounds fired.
Then the next one wouldn't chamber...WTF?...#2 and #3 no chamber...WTF? I finally stopped trying to shoot the crap knowing something was wrong, take it inside and look at it under the light. Imaging my surprise :D
I wish you'd have talked to me first. You could've sent me your brass, I could've kicked you in the balls and kept your brass and you'd have been further ahead.
Good Grief! Helen Keller could load better ammo than that. I'd love to have my own ammo plant. There really is no competition out there other than Federal GMM for REALLY GOOD ammo.
Good Grief! Helen Keller could load better ammo than that. I'd love to have my own ammo plant. There really is no competition out there other than Federal GMM for REALLY GOOD ammo.
Do it, and show them how it's done. Several very successful companies began in a household basement with nothing more than a reloading machine and relentless effort.
Good Grief! Helen Keller could load better ammo than that. I'd love to have my own ammo plant. There really is no competition out there other than Federal GMM for REALLY GOOD ammo.
You looking for investors? I'm in for $100.
$100 down, $9,999,900 to go! ;)
The only remanufactured ammo I trust is that which I have remanufactured myself.
I've used reman ammo for several years without any problems (so far). I never buy reloaded ammo at a gun show.
The only remanufactured ammo I trust is that which I have remanufactured myself.
Black Hills loads quite functional REMAN. They cut a few corners that I wouldn't... such as trimming the brass. But I trust and would shoot their ammo all day long for practice stuff if I weren't loading for myself.
I've used reman ammo for several years without any problems (so far). I never buy reloaded ammo at a gun show.
I've actually used reman pistol ammo I bought from a gun show but it was from a company I've known for years. I would never buy it from some random guy especially rifle ammo.
I wouldn't buy it online from a company that doesn't have a proven track record. I didn't know anything about this company and stupidly jumped on the chance to have them reload it for me and risk blowing myself up.
Their liability insurance company supposedly represents several big name clients according to them. Lol. I'll bet they would freak out knowing the shitty QC of this company.
Skintop911
And you take the exact same chance with factory FRESH ammo! There are many documented cases of Factory ammo blowing up guns! Bad brass, over charges, wrong powder used etc. Nothing in ammo use is 100 % safe. Shit happens. As you said it's all if you can sue them for a screw up. They are going to happen no matter who makes the ammo. :(
Plumber237
12-03-13, 13:54
I see Freedom Munitions was mentioned, I've shot quite a bit of their 115 gr 9mm ammo (2k+), and never had an issue. This led me to trying out their .223 ammo and I've had some problems. I was having failures to extract out of my 14.5 BCM (bolt has a bit over 3K through it), but it afterwards have FTE with 193 as well, so it's either extractor or dirt/a burr in the chamber I'm guessing (haven't tested it out with my spare bolt yet). So I tried some in my 6920 and all of it ran except the one round that blew the primer out the ass end and it stayed inside the lug lock part of the chamber...that helped me make up my mind that remanufactured rifle ammo isn't worth the little bit cheaper price.
Black Hills loads quite functional REMAN. They cut a few corners that I wouldn't... such as trimming the brass. But I trust and would shoot their ammo all day long for practice stuff if I weren't loading for myself.
I've never really considered black hills as re manufactured even though it is due to their reputation but even so I couldn't find Black Hills anywhere in Canada.
Plumber237
12-27-13, 14:39
Update on my Freedom Munitions rifle ammo situation, it appears as though it was the rifle ammo that was the problem. I took out my previously malfunctioning AR with a brand new BCG & buffer/spring in reserve for when malfunctions started, to narrow it down to either extractor/chamber/buffer issue (assuming it wasn't ammo)...and no malfunctions after 200 rounds factory ammo. This was without any cleaning from before when it was malfunctioning and the same amount of lubrication applied. So in the future I will be staying away from remanufactured rifle ammo, but will continue to give FM my $ for pistol ammo, as I haven't had a single issue with over 2,000 rounds of their 9mm (I will be ordering some of their .38 spl this spring for summer carry practice).
Update on my Freedom Munitions rifle ammo situation, it appears as though it was the rifle ammo that was the problem. I took out my previously malfunctioning AR with a brand new BCG & buffer/spring in reserve for when malfunctions started, to narrow it down to either extractor/chamber/buffer issue (assuming it wasn't ammo)...and no malfunctions after 200 rounds factory ammo. This was without any cleaning from before when it was malfunctioning and the same amount of lubrication applied. So in the future I will be staying away from remanufactured rifle ammo, but will continue to give FM my $ for pistol ammo, as I haven't had a single issue with over 2,000 rounds of their 9mm (I will be ordering some of their .38 spl this spring for summer carry practice).
They screwed up rifle ammo apparently. Ask yourself the question not if but when they could screw up pistol ammo. Something to ponder.
Plumber237
12-29-13, 00:37
I had that thought as well, when it comes down to it I guess I'm more protective of my rifles than I am my glocks.
BuzzinSATX
01-14-14, 08:30
I've only run about 800 rounds of .223 62 grain Freedom reman through my DDM4 versus over 8K of 9MM and .40 reman through Glocks and an XD, but all of the Freedom Munitions reman I've bought has shot flawlessly.
I run my guns pretty well lubed, and clean them after every range visit, so I'm not sure what I'm doing right but so far I'm very satisfied with their ammo.
But like everything, YMMV.
Take care,
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