View Full Version : Summer Carry: Jframe / mexican carry discussion
jasonhgross
04-10-08, 13:17
Ok, let me set this up. I usually carry a glock 19 in a kramer holster, kramer belt, spare magazine. I now live in Northern Virginia. I have carried for over 10 years. I know many of us have j-frames for the always gun. When it gets hot out, i find it hard to wear layers beyond a tshirt, and I definately dont want to strap on the holster with the glock. How many people carry or have carried a j-frame or ruger sp101 inside the wasteband without a holster. How many have considered it. I just think it may make sense when its better to have a gun than none at all, and its just to hot or inconvenient to port all the extra stuff of the main gun and acoutrament.
I'm in NoVA a lot and live in suburban MD. I carry my full-size gun all the time, all year. It's just a matter of making proper clothing choices. Over the past eight years I've carried various Beretta 92G models, P220's, P226's, P229's, and now for the past seven months an M&P9. It's absolutely doable if you want to do it. Just throw a short-sleeve thin button-down shirt (properly cut on the sides so it doesn't ride too high) over your t-shirt and you're good to go with just about anything in an IWB.
If that just doesn't tickle your fancy, there are certainly plenty of reasonable and intelligent folks who carry a j-frame as their everyday CCW gun, and some of them carry it with something like the Barami grip which is basically Mexican carry.
Another option, and one I use for my backup, is a pocket holster. Assuming you've got front pockets, this allows you to have the gun in a secure, discreet location, reasonably fast access, and the ability to put your hand on the gun without attracting notice. Quite a few people find the Uncle Mike's pocket holster, which is cheap as you could ever ask for, to be one of if not the best pocket holster on the market for the j-frame.
When I started carrying I NEVER thought I would even consider carrying a small revolver. I was very wrong. This is a very pleasant way to carry in the summer. I love this weapon for doing work around the house, or having to run the store when you don't have a nice over-shirt on. I always try to carry my Glock, but sometimes in the Midwest it is just too hot and humid to have a lot of layers on. I put mine in a Mikka's pocket holster. It was reasonably priced, and works great. It has a "sticky" rubberized webbed material on the outside, and a wide mouth for easy drawing. In a pair of cargo shorts with fairly deep pockets, this is a deeply concealed weapon, that isn't too hard to get too. Though the draw stroke needs to be practiced from there. It is important to keep the hand as straight as possible when pulling it out. I love my J-frame with a set of crimson trace grips on it. I don't like being stuck with 5-shots though, so once again I like and am a little more comfortable with the Glock.
jasonhgross
04-10-08, 13:40
Todd LG, its been a while since I have seen you back at the NTI. How you been? I recall you being a larger body build than I am, sometimes its hard to hide the full size gun without a heavy draped garment.
You might have me confused with someone, I've never been to the NTI. But I am certainly someone in need of more gym time, so perhaps you're just misremembering where we met. :cool:
My shooting partner is 5'6", weighs about 160#, and easily carries the same guns I have (though his normal issue gun is a P229R). You're right that it's probably a little more challenging, but it's an option if you want to make it one.
No question, a j-frame in your pocket or waistband is infinitely more useful than the biggest, highest capacity, most powerful pistol in the world sitting in your safe back home.
jasonhgross
04-10-08, 13:52
Maybe it was at another training group? This is about 10 years or so ago. Maybe an insightstraining course. I absolutely prefer to carry the glock, but since I dont carry a gun professionally, and I frequently get the (LETS GO NOW) thing from the girlfriend, I struggle sometimes with going with the easy to stick in the pants jframe over the more cumbersome and complicated to assemble on the belt glock, especially in the summer time. I know we must all have struggled with these issues from time to time.
Jason -- the question I've got to ask is, why are you hanging around the house without your gun on to begin with? My gun goes on when my belt goes on in the morning and doesn't come off until the belt comes off at bedtime.
Not trying to convince you to carry a hand cannon everywhere you go, but even if your everyday carry is going to be a j-frame I'd suggest having it on your person whenever you're vertical. Then when the future Mrs. Gross wants to bolt out the door for an exciting adventure, you are good to go.
J-frame aside I'm a little guy at 5'5" and 130lbs and I carried my G19 with shorts and t-shirts (during the summer) since 2003. Last summer I bought a G26 and carried it because I did want something smaller. Using a Milt Sparks VMII and a Wilderness belt I can carry my G19 or G26 wearing shorts with just a medium t-shirt covering it up.
J-frame aside I'm a little guy at 5'5" and 130lbs and I carried my G19 with shorts and t-shirts since 2003.
Doesn't that get cold in the winter?
:p
Doesn't that get cold in the winter?
:p
You know what I meant :p
I'm a big fan of my 38 +P S&W 342 PD made of scandium with a belt clip... Although it was discontinued by S&W I believe it is going to be re-released under their M&P banner...
It is so light that it can go into a shirt pocket or the waistband of your shorts and not look like a boat anchor... Working as a UC on the beach presents new challenges...
A J frame really fills my needs for a pistol, in that if I ever draw and exhibit it as a UC or off duty, count on the fact that it is going to be a up close and personal exchange ideas... That and the fact that I have a M-16 and an 870 in the front seat of my car...
Buck
P.S. The purpose of the pistol is to defend against an unexpected attack...
i know todd's shooting partner very well, i just saw him a few hours ago and not only did he have his 229 on him he had a j frame also. if you dress around the gun you can carry just about anything with in reason. that being said i find myself carrying my g.26 on my own time about 75% of the time.
i know todd's shooting partner very well,
You've known him a lot longer than I have! But the G26 thing is another example of how different people, regardless of their size, choose different guns for day to day use. Having a gun is 85% of the equation.
true todd. i hate to say this but i get tired of carrying a gun (been doing it for 24yrs) but never not carry, i always carry something. the g.26 is usually the smallest i will go, but i've been known to carry a j frame once in awhile. they are great guns BUT you have to put your time in on them as well, they need to be shot. if you are gonna make a j frame you main gun(even if it a season. carry thing) then you need to get to the range and shoot them and not just once, but put some good trigger time in on them. to many people switch to something smaller in the warmer weather but hardly put range time in on them.
I've carried a G19 in a jock strap fairly often
"So tell me partner... Is that a pistol in your pocket or are you just glad to see me???"" ;-)
HolyRoller
04-11-08, 19:34
Mexican carry!? I don't even know any Mexicans that do that! And we got lots of 'em round hyah, trust me.
Here's what I can and do conceal on my 5' 8.5" 247# silly self with just shorts and a one-size-larger muscle shirt:
-1911 TRP, S&A mag funnel and all, in a Wild Bill's Concealment Summer Heat IWB.
-Hinged blued cuffs in a discreet (which means subtle and not easily observed, while "discrete" means separate and distinct) OWB cuff case, I believe it's Gould & Goodrich, but make sure you get the fixed belt-loop version because the clip or snap-on is way too weak and will not hold on when you pull the cuffs up through the snap.
-One mag, horizontal OWB, in a Wild Bill's single IWB pouch but worn OWB with one Velcro nylon belt keeper
-Badge case
-Airweight 637, left front pocket, in a Wild Bill's pocket holster, but make sure to cut away all the leather behind the cylinder so that gun comes out and holster doesn't
-Bianchi Speed Strip, right back pocket. I used to keep a speedloader in the right front pocket, but on duty, the holster all but blocks the front pocket.
-ASP Kubotan-ish pepper spray and keychain, and S&W camo folding knife (you know it's a "S.W.A.T. Special Tactical" knife because it says so right on the blade ... sighhhhhhhhh ... but it was only $20 and cuts quite well so I endure the laughter of my alleged friends), right front pocket
I even practice transition drills from carbine to sidearm in this configuration, with and without the Level IV plate carrier. The Velcro on the carrier does catch on the muscle shirt and cause unsightly pilling, though.:)
John_Wayne777
04-11-08, 22:32
Count me as another fan of the J frame. My S&W 442 has been my constant companion since I bought it many years ago. I'm a huge fan of the J frame. I would STRONGLY discourage "mexican" carry....holsters were invented for a reason. On more than one occasion I've seen someone who was mexican carrying a small handgun have the thing make a trip down their pants leg. There's no graceful way to retrieve your handgun from the floor in the checkout line at Wal-Mart. Even worse, I saw one individual who lost his mexican carried pistol as he was running to catch up to a thief...and he didn't realize it until he had the guy cornered and the guy pulled a knife.
...but lets be honest: As a primary gun, it sucks. It's hard to shoot well. You can learn to shoot it well and with the addition of CT grips and some yellow paint on the front sight you can make the weapon easier to use accurately, but it's still limited by a bad trigger, tiny sights, and limited capacity.
Certainly better than fingernails...and if you have to carry a weapon in one of those "non-permissive" environments it's hard to beat the concealability of a J frame. The only way anyone will ever be able to tell you've got it is with a metal detector.
Most people with the proper clothing selection can carry a better option at least some of the time. In the summer under just a T-shirt I have no trouble concealing a full-sized handgun (1911, M&P 45, etc...) with an IWB holster. On the days when I want a little more insurance, I use a very lightweight camp style shirt as well and printing isn't a problem. Woolrich's Elite series "Tropical" shirts are great for that.
Here's a pic of my typical carry loadout for my daily life:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0033.jpg
Full sized handgun, at least 2 reloads (3 for a single stack), a compact BUG, at least one reload for the BUG if it's my 442, and a couple of lights. I can conceal all of that with no problem. (And no, the Blackwater T-shirt's Dark Side energy isn't the reason. ;) )
If you really find that a full sized handgun is too big, I heartily recommend trying the M&P 9C. I've been shooting and carrying my 9C for a few months now and I love it. It's every bit as capable as its larger brothers in the accuracy and shootability department, especially with the extended magazine floorplate. For some reason I actually seem to shoot the little bastard BETTER than my full sized 9mm. :confused:
When I carry it I carry full-sized M&P 9mm magazines as reloads. I also frequently pack it as a backup to my full sized M&P in a Galco pocket holster. (For most folks the 9C is a bit too big for pocket carry.) With the 9C you aren't giving up much on a full sized handgun.
Some comparison pics of my G26 and my M&P 9C:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0520.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0521.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0522.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0523.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0524.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0525.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0526.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0527.jpg
If you happen to shoot Glocks well, the same general advice would apply to the G26. Personally I don't get along with Glocks, but of all of them I prefer the G26 because at the time I bought it, it was the best compromise of power, reliability, size, capacity and shootability I could find.
Now that I have my 9C I don't carry the G26 anymore. With these compact handguns I'd also strongly encourage obtaining Crimson Trace lasers for them.
David and Todd have given out a lot of sage advice in this thread. I'd pay VERY close attention to what they have to say. One of the great challenges I see is the mindset of folks who carry. There are a lot of people who put something like a Kel-Tec P32 in their pocket and head out the door. They are fulfilling rule 1 of a gunfight: Have a gun. That's good....
...but the truth is that the overwhelming majority could pack something better if they put some effort into it. Some folks seem to think that a handgun is a magic talisman that will ward off evil. The reality is that they are tools. The basic law of tools is that the wrong tool makes any job harder....that includes self defense. They believe that a .32 is "enough" because they aren't patrolling the streets in a cruiser or roping out of a chopper to go shoot bad guys in the face.
I'm not an expert and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but I've never heard of ANYONE who survived a lethal force situation come out on the other end wishing they had been packing a smaller, less capable weapon. Quite the opposite, in fact...
As I said earlier, I'm a HUGE fan of the J frame. They are one of the most versatile personal defense tools ever made. With some upgrades you can improve upon a good thing....
But at the same time I'd encourage someone considering one as a primary to explore carrying the J frame as a BUG and seeking out at least a good compact like the 9C as a primary. If you dress around the fact that you are carrying a firearm for personal defense you can generally accomplish that. The challenge I see regularly in real life and on the various forums are folks who pick a handgun based on their fashion sense rather than re-arranging their style of dress around the life saving tool.
Sometimes dress is something that's out of their control. That's cool. All of us have occasions when we simply can't do better or when we can't carry a gun at all...but in the majority of cases folks CAN do better if they just try. I've said this before, but I think it's worth repeating:
Show me a man's carry gear and I'll be able to tell you a great deal about his mindset.
Awesome post, J_W777!
I'd just like to second ToddG's compliment. It was an excellent post, J_W777. I particularly liked your last quote. Thanks for taking the time to post it.
Here in Vegas, the summers stay at 110 and above for several months. For a while, I started to get lazy and stopped carrying either my Glock 19 or my 1911 instead opting for my J frame. I got lazy and opted for comfort. I finally realized that if I do get in a gunfight, I don't want it to be with my J Frame. I want a bigger gun. So I made a few changes. I invested in some quality leather holsters from Alessi (Alessi PCH) got some better belts, and sucked it up. The holsters changed everything for me. I'm 6'-3" about 200 pounds, and I can easily conceal a 5" 1911 IWB with just a XL T shirt. I can get away with a large, but I do worry about the shirt being a little shorter and riding up. The J frame still gets carried, but it is now back up in one of my shorts cargo pockets. Anymore I don't even know I'm carrying the bigger gun. The belt and holster made a huge difference in comfort.
It's starting to get pretty warm here again...I almost exclusively wear cargo shorts in the hot months (which is most of them here); and right now my method of carry has become my M&P9c in a cargo pocket (if I'm wearing too tight of a t-shirt for my XD IWB) or in a SmartCarry if I'm in basketball-style shorts. I used to have a 642 but the M&P9c is small and light enough to cargo pocket carry and big enough with the factory pinky extension to feel like a "real" gun to me (along with 13 rds of Ranger +P).
Who makes good cargo shorts that have deep enough pockets for your backup J-frames?
Larry Vickers
04-12-08, 20:55
The airweight J frame has a niche that is unlikely to be filled by any other pistol anytime soon - my bro Ken Hackathorn clued me into that a long time ago and as usual he was spot on
one thing about the J frame; IMO Crimson Trace lasergrips are mandatory - I would not think of using one without them - I have been quoted many times that every J frame on the planet should have them - and I believe that to this day
if you don't have them on yours I recommend you install them ASAP - anyone who has used them on a small frame revolver knows what I am talking about
be safe
LAV
Who makes good cargo shorts that have deep enough pockets for your backup J-frames?
Old Navy has good cargo's for cheap. The pockets are real deep. On a side note, they have great cargos, I don't even wear my 5.11's anymore to the range. I prefer the Old Navy models. They are fit a little looser, their pockets are deeper to hold more ammo(especially helpful at classes when you want to stay on the line) and they hold up well. I have three pair that are going on 3 years of hard use - one deployment, weekly range sessions, hiking, classes, bumming around town blending in with the sheeple, etc. Best of all you can usually get them for around $20 or less.
Old Navy has good cargo's for cheap. The pockets are real deep. On a side note, they have great cargos, I don't even wear my 5.11's anymore to the range. I prefer the Old Navy models. They are fit a little looser, their pockets are deeper to hold more ammo(especially helpful at classes when you want to stay on the line) and they hold up well. I have three pair that are going on 3 years of hard use - one deployment, weekly range sessions, hiking, classes, bumming around town blending in with the sheeple, etc. Best of all you can usually get them for around $20 or less.
Sweet information man... my wife is making an online order to them tonight... looks like she'll have a few more items to add. :)
In regards to the J-Frame... has anyone found a good gunsmith who will install a tritium vial into the integral ramp of the Airweight?
Alpha Sierra
04-12-08, 21:38
In regards to the J-Frame... has anyone found a good gunsmith who will install a tritium vial into the integral ramp of the Airweight?
It would be easier to mill the front sight off, cut a dovetail, and install a tritium sight.
It would be easier to mill the front sight off, cut a dovetail, and install a tritium sight.
Thank you for that suggestion I had not thought of that, and I could not find a smith that would install tritium for me
jasonhgross
04-14-08, 07:50
Jason -- the question I've got to ask is, why are you hanging around the house without your gun on to begin with? My gun goes on when my belt goes on in the morning and doesn't come off until the belt comes off at bedtime.
Not trying to convince you to carry a hand cannon everywhere you go, but even if your everyday carry is going to be a j-frame I'd suggest having it on your person whenever you're vertical. Then when the future Mrs. Gross wants to bolt out the door for an exciting adventure, you are good to go.
The future and next ex Mrs. Gross wont allow the wearing of garments and their necessary attachment points while in her chambers. ;-)
removed to start new thread
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=151074#post151074
John_Wayne777
04-14-08, 13:39
I live in Missouri & the company I work for has a strict no weapon policy on the rule books. In a situation like this would you just leave it in your vehicle or what.
Do they have a metal detector? Do they search you regularly, including your person?
If the answer to those two questions is "no", then you have to ask yourself how they would ever know you are carrying a J frame unless you actually needed to use it to defend your life...and in such a circumstance, is being fired the most important thing you have to worry about?
;)
I dont want to hijack this thread but I have a quick question. Since the amout of time a person carries there firearm has been brought up I dont feel out of line.
I live in Missouri & the company I work for has a strict no weapon policy on the rule books. In a situation like this would you just leave it in your vehicle or what.
I agree with John_Wayne777, but I just leave mine in my car. I know it's not ideal, but at this point, with the high-activity nature of my job, there is a higher probability of the gun being detected while I'm working, than me having to use it. I dunno, perhaps it's time I reconsidered.
Currently, "the gun I carry when not carrying a gun", is a Colt Pony Pocketlite .380acp in a Kramer pocket holster. Thinking about trading it on an S&W 638 or 642 and adding a Clip-Draw.
removed to start new thread
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=151074#post151074
Here in WV i carry a j frame daily (s&w 637...light weight and actually very accurate). My clothing selection in the summer months are generally form fitting t shirts and cargo shorts. I wanted a holster that would work with my usual attire. I ended up with the Desantis insider IWB holster...tucked right above my wallet in my right rear pocket it is undetectable and still accessible.
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