4x ACOG + KAC offset sights. BUIS too?

[DreadPirateMoyer]

Hi everyone,

I've run into a conundrum with a set up I'm working on. I plan on using a 4x ACOG and, because it lacks adjustability (1x), a set of KAC offset sights for emergencies and close-in work (both already purchased). However, this is the first rifle I've ever run with offset sights, and I'm not fully familiar with what strategies people have found to work best with them.

Do any of you also run a set of BUIS with combos like this, and if so, why did you choose to do so? Seems like they could come in handy if your main optic goes down so you don't always have to tilt your gun to the side (and seems like it would be superior to just carrying a spare set of BUIS since they'd already be attached/sighted in).

However, I like my rifles to be simple: optic, BUIS, light, and sometimes some type of foregrip (generally a TD stubby). Seems like running 3 sights on the gun would just be messy as compared to my standard set up, and quite possibly not worth the hassle since the main optic going down permanently is a rare occurrence.

Overall, just need a bit of help before I go and mount everything and get it sighted in. Not sure of all the ins and outs of offsets and was hoping those with more experience could offer some advice.

Much appreciated for any you can provide. :)

[nate89]

I’ve thought about this as well. I want to put together a 20” upper with a magnified optic and am interested in what people use who actually have a setup like that. It seems like you would want irons at 12 o’clock for long range shots if your optic went down, but the offset sights for use at close range seems like a good idea as well.

[legumeofterror]

Have either of you had your optic fail for any reason whatsoever? Even if it were to fail would your situation be so dire that you would need to have not one, but two additional means of aiming the rifle?

Seens to me you are trying to solve a non-problem...

[Duffy]

I have two TA31ECOS, the ECOS line has built-in iron sights :)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/31ECOS.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/31ECOS.jpg.html)

[DreadPirateMoyer]

Have either of you had your optic fail for any reason whatsoever? Even if it were to fail would your situation be so dire that you would need to have not one, but two additional means of aiming the rifle?

Seens to me you are trying to solve a non-problem...

Yes, I've had my optic fail (going from cold to warm areas and getting external fogging; hence, one of the reasons for offset sights). No, I haven't had any fail permanently.

With regards to your last question, I don't know if I could find myself in that situation or not. Maybe. Maybe not. Or maybe the occurrences are so few and limited it's not worth having another set of sights on there. I don't know. That's why I asked what people's experiences were.

And I'm not necessarily trying to solve a non-problem. I saw the below picture on KAC's website and was wondering if this was actually something people did or not.

http://www.knightarmco.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/d1.jpg

[DreadPirateMoyer]

Oh, and Duffy: very jealous of your set up. :) I've got the TA02 LED version. Love everything about it except the lack of built-in BUIS options.

[midSCarolina]

My humble opinion is that there is no need for rail mounted back ups if you have the 45 offset irons. A BUIS is there in case your primary fails. While this is rare, it can happen as a result of some electrical problem, a hit, or some other internal failure. Since back ups are simple mechanical designs (or at least should be) they aren't very prone to failure. Does it hurt... not unless you really don't want to add any excess weight no matter how insignificant it may be. In a way the 45 offsets are your back ups... practice to a high level proficiency with them and be confident in your system. Spend the money on something else (esp if you are looking at KAC back ups bc buying extra sets of those will rape your bank account hah)

[JohnsMyName]

My humble opinion is that there is no need for rail mounted back ups if you have the 45 offset irons. A BUIS is there in case your primary fails. While this is rare, it can happen as a result of some electrical problem, a hit, or some other internal failure. Since back ups are simple mechanical designs (or at least should be) they aren't very prone to failure. Does it hurt... not unless you really don't want to add any excess weight no matter how insignificant it may be. In a way the 45 offsets are your back ups... practice to a high level proficiency with them and be confident in your system. Spend the money on something else (esp if you are looking at KAC back ups bc buying extra sets of those will rape your bank account hah)

This... +1

[sua175]

jesus doesn't anyone tie down there optics anymore? I do on my personal rifles. I would only have one set of irons either offset or at the 12.

[steve--oh]

2 sets of iron sights. For that guy who has 3 locks on his front door.

[Koshinn]

I have two TA31ECOS, the ECOS line has built-in iron sights :)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/31ECOS.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/31ECOS.jpg.html)

OP - you need this TA31ECOS with mini red dot and iron sights on top on both sides, regular BUIS, and two sets of offset BUIS, one for each side.

Two is one and one is none... so by that logic, seven is six, six is five, five is four, four is three, and thus three is two.

[rickmy]

The offsets serve as buis though they have dual roles as primary sighting up close. You can also train to shoot indexing your optic up to approx 15yds. i.e. through a dead aimpoint or via the top of it.

[MountainRaven]

Off-set irons are BUIS to me. Have never really seen a reason to have a set of folding BUIS and off-set irons, unless the off-set irons are folding BUIS.

If I seriously thought that my main optic was going to go TU so bad that I would need to remove it (thereby rendering the off-sets the primary sighting system), I would probably just grab a second optic. And/or pull one off of one of my other long guns (one of the benes of LT/ADM/Bobro mounts).

Given the number of military rifles designed, particularly of late, with dinky, almost useless BUIS intended for use with a fixed power magnified optic (AUG with built-in Swaro, SA80's SUSAT, the Elcan Spectre DR and both TA01NSN and TA31ECOS ACOGs, &c.), I don't think I would worry overly much about having both folding and off-set irons.

I'd rock your KACs and forget about it.

[themissinglink]

I would probably just have 1 set of BUIS. The 45 offsets are awesome, if you can transition easily.

[Benito]

The 45 degree offsets ARE the BUIS.

[Swag]

I'm trying to imagine why one would need two sets of BUIS. All I can think is that it goes a little past redundant.

Maybe the idea is to alleviate the use of the 45* offsets if the optic fails: following removal of downed optic, revert to 0* BUIS. Just a stab in the dark.

[chungdae]

I have the dueck offset sights as my backup. Never really thought of having another set of backups but if you want to why not?

[Ops]

do you have a total flat top or a fsb? i have offsets and a reddot magnifier setup on one. My colt has a flip up fron and rear and offsets. probably going to go with either a reddot /magnifier or a scope, havent decided yet

if you are going to run dual buis make sure your optic has a quick release. but everyone has there ideas.

[Seagunner]

buis for scope..offset for last resort close in..you wouldn't use offset for distance. For all the guys w/ buis and a red dot, this isnt the same discussion..right?

[ClearedHot]

I have two TA31ECOS, the ECOS line has built-in iron sights :)

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/31ECOS.jpg (http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/31ECOS.jpg.html)

http://cdn.meme.li/instances/300x300/39446941.jpg

[_Stormin_]

http://cdn.meme.li/instances/300x300/39446941.jpg

This had me laughing for a solid five minutes.

[themissinglink]

Pimp your AR!


This had me laughing for a solid five minutes.

[Chameleox]

And I'm not necessarily trying to solve a non-problem. I saw the below picture on KAC's website and was wondering if this was actually something people did or not.

http://www.knightarmco.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/d1.jpg

What you're looking at is likely just a mounting suggestion for the KAC sights. A la "Hey, they work this way too!")

If your ACOG fails catastrophically, you can still use 45 degree offsets out to 100, as long as you zero them properly, know your holds, and practice with them. Folks practicing with their BUIS:rolleyes: - what's this world coming to...

At some point, your backup (to your backup to your backup:D) should probably be another weapon and/or a new plan. My bottom line: if your ACOG takes a shit and you can't use the 45 offset irons due to whatever reason, it might be time to draw your handgun, fix bayonets, and/or pop smoke. This may not be a viable option for those in the military who still have to drive on to a primary objective, or in a very very small, select, blue moon percentage of LE scenarios. If we're talking about HD, then the offsets should be fine at those ranges, or even across the street.

Back to the OP: my suggestion would be to pick one set of irons, and put the money saved on the other set towards training ammo dedicated to those irons.