View Full Version : Buying another AR = Analysis Paralysis
Hey fellas,
haven't bought an AR in a while and wife has been wanting something simple and light for some upcoming carbine courses. Prices are finally starting to normalize around here so I am going to pick up another AR before something crazy happens again.
I am still learning, and you guys have never steered me wrong, so I'm going to throw out some options and ask for your thoughts and advice. Maybe you're bored at work and willing to do the "which AR should I buy" thing again :sarcastic:
Fist option is Colt LE 6920 Magpul/Moe addition in FDE. Brand new, never fired, $1350 asking price. Guy is likely not going to move on that.
Second option is a BCM middy upper, lo=pro gas block and a 12 inch Fortis rail, brand new in plastc BCM BCG and a brand new gunfighter charging handle (mod 3, 4 or 5, my choice).
BCM bbl, 1:7 twist.
Lower is a Palmetto state, with a Palmetto trigger and assorted BCM parts in the lower. Tube/Buffer etc is BCM. Stock is Vltor IMOD, FDE magpul furniture otherwise. Sights would be first gen Magpul MBUS.
This rifle is $1350 also.
THIRD Option is the second rifle, but he is willing to swap the barrel to a DD 14.5 LW carbine barrel with an FSB and a pinned Rainier arms XTC. IF I chose that barrel he would swap the rail for a 7 inch Centurion C4 rail.
Again, this configuration would be $1350.
Now, this would be for my wife, although I would get plenty of use out of it too. But, being for her, I am looking for light and easy handling. I know the Fortis rails are really light, but I know they are tall and I worry they may be difficult for her to grip. I am interested in the middy as i don't currently have one, but not sure the recoil difference for her would be appreciable, so may be a moot point.
I like the idea of the DD barrel, as that would be super light. Again, not very familiar with the Centurion C4 rail, but I know the company gets good reviews here regarding their rails. I like the idea of the FSB for my wife as it is simple and solid, and the short rail with the 14.5" LW barrel ought to be super light.
Know nothing about the Rainer Arms XTC. Heard it keeps the barrel steady, but is it crazy concussion? Don't want her to be uncomfortable shooting it.
What are your thoughts on these options, keeping in mind that I will use it, but it would be my wife's carbine class rifle when she comes along.
Thanks all.
evoutfitters
07-03-13, 17:18
FWIW I would not use an XTC or any other comp in a carbine class... Classmates shooting on her left and right will suffer! ;)
Of all the options you've listed I'd go with the Colt. The other rifles have nice components, but the Colt is assembled and tested to meet TDP requirements and has a very good chance of running well in class with no futzing required.
FWIW I would not use an XTC or any other comp in a carbine class... Classmates shooting on her left and right will suffer! ;)
Of all the options you've listed I'd go with the Colt. The other rifles have nice components, but the Colt is assembled and tested to meet TDP requirements and has a very good chance of running well in class with no futzing required.
I appreciate that. Good point on the XTC... I don't want to be "that guy" (girl).
I'm curious, with the second rifle, which configuration you/others would chose? Contemplating just buying both.
I'd go for the Colt personally, the MOE handguards are super light and you can mount rails where you need them. Shouldn't need anything other than a white light unless you have the coin for NODS and an IR laser, than a MOE probably wouldn't be the best option as mounting accessories to the top is more difficult.
Grand58742
07-03-13, 17:45
Contemplating just buying both.
If you have the money lol.
I'll second that notion about the brake. I have the Rainier Arms RMC on a BCM setup and that thing is loud and hateful to anyone standing next to me.
Of your choices, I've come to like the lightweight barrels myself. Got a BCM upper with the LW barrel for my hog hunting setup and has done double duty as the HD long gun from time to time. Have the flashlight and AFG rails ready, but typically don't keep them on there.
Top it off with a Aimpoint Micro and it's good to hook.
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy179/Grand58742/20130703_174029_zps29333a2a.jpg (http://s789.photobucket.com/user/Grand58742/media/20130703_174029_zps29333a2a.jpg.html)
Count me in for the Colt.
The prices seem a little high but I guess that depends on where you live.
Here in FL a Colt as you described would be $1,100 on the high side.
I love my Colt, but it would be hard to pass on that BCM for the same price. If you like the parts that the Palmetto/BCM comes with and plan on leaving it as is, then buy it. If you want a Colt and want to customize it with whatever you want, then look somewhere else for a 6920, since you can usually find them for about 1,100.
Count me in for the Colt.
The prices seem a little high but I guess that depends on where you live.
Here in FL a Colt as you described would be $1,100 on the high side.
Currently in Phoenix, AZ. Prices are a touch high relative to dealers, (about 1150-1250 at dealers here) but that's just the classifieds market being a touch behind, and some guys knowing they can charge more because a lot of folks out here will pay not to be papered due to distrust for big brother.
Personally and biased but I'd get the Colt. You just can't go wrong there.
Count me in for the Colt.
The prices seem a little high but I guess that depends on where you live.
Here in FL a Colt as you described would be $1,100 on the high side.
$1100 for a MAGPUL Colt? That sounds like a regular 6920 price without the Magpul goodies.
I love my Colt, but it would be hard to pass on that BCM for the same price.
With the BCM middy bbl or the DD 14.5?
PatrioticDisorder
07-03-13, 18:12
All 3 rifles will serve you well, the Colt is definitely overpriced, so I'd go DD or BCM, pick out of those 2 which you prefer.
I know you've got these to choose from, but a very lightweight option would be the DD M4 V7 LW. You'd be hard pressed to find a lighter rifle. Couple this with the DD barrel and enhanced magazine well with magpul moe stock that it comes with, add an aimpoint micro and you've got one of the lightest most dependable rifles on the market.
I would stay away from the Pinned barrel, unless you never have plans to change it.
As for the other options the Colt is about 100-150$ more than avg I would say. And as you said for the BCM the Fortis rail, you seem to be pretty sure your wife will not like it.
I would go the Colt personally. Don't have to pin FH and don't end up with a rail your wife doesn't like.
Redbeardsong
07-03-13, 18:32
Or you could save yourself $150 and get this one:
http://clydearmory.com/colt-le6920mp-fde.html
And as you said for the BCM the Fortis rail, you seem to be pretty sure your wife will not like it.
I'm not sure she wouldn't like it, just concerned, as I've never handled one. Is it true that they are pretty tall?
Fortis is a pretty light rail, correct? How would the weight/balance compare to the Colt with Moe handguard?
With the BCM middy bbl or the DD 14.5?
Hmm, tough choice. That C4 is a nice rail. I think that would just come down to personal preference. Since its for your wife, I would go with the DD LW and C4 rail. But for a little more money you could just get a full DDM4v7.
midSCarolina
07-03-13, 18:41
I would also stay away from the pinned muzzle device. I like running 14.5s with pinned FHs but it is nice to get it set up how YOU really want it prior to having a muzzle device permanently attached. If something is an awesome deal and you can save so much that you can afford to send it off get it removed and and still come out ahead, thats another situation.
I like the look of the Colt here... give her somewhat of a blank canvas to work with. The colt will be an excellent rifle and although a mid-length would be a little softer on a woman, I can't see it being an issue.
I have no experience with the Fortis rail, I assumed you did by your comments. Sry for being misleading with that. I know the MOE handguards are fairly light, and my bud's rifle seemed pretty light with a Aimpoint PRO on his. At the same time I am 250lbs @ 6'3" so that could have been misleading as well.
I'm not sure she wouldn't like it, just concerned, as I've never handled one. Is it true that they are pretty tall?
Fortis is a pretty light rail, correct? How would the weight/balance compare to the Colt with Moe handguard?
good feedback everyone, and thanks for the info.
Does anyone see a benefit to an FSB vs lo-pro gas/rail or vice-versa?
PatrioticDisorder
07-03-13, 19:29
good feedback everyone, and thanks for the info.
Does anyone see a benefit to an FSB vs lo-pro gas/rail or vice-versa?
I love my DDM4V1 LW with fixed front and rear sights with my LaRue 1/3 co-witness mount for my T-1. This is a sweet set up. However, lo-pro gas block will give you more options, if you want to run magnified optics I would recommend this set up, but if you want a light weight kiss rifle with a 1x, get the FSB.
You said it yourself, an FSB is solid and simple. It's still by far the most sturdy gasblock you will ever have, shaved or unshaved. That said, a lowpro can be pinned as well. I say it boils down to personal preference and requirement. In your case, I know this is "your wife's" AR but what other AR's do you have? I would pick the config that will both suit her needs as well as supplement what you already have. Without knowing what you have, going by the idea of light and simple for your wife alone, I would get the Colt. Simple/basic, light, with a 16" barrel, so you can easily reconfigure it to suit her eventual needs and preferences, or even yours. :)
You said it yourself, an FSB is solid and simple. It's still by far the most sturdy gasblock you will ever have, shaved or unshaved. That said, a lowpro can be pinned as well. I say it boils down to personal preference and requirement. In your case, I know this is "your wife's" AR but what other AR's do you have? I would configure it to both suit her needs as well as supplement what you already have. Without knowing what you have, going by the idea of light and simple for your wife alone, I would get the Colt. Simple/basic, light, with a 16" barrel, so you can easily reconfigure it to suit her eventual needs and preferences, or even yours. :)
Good point, and thanks for the observation.
My current rifle is a Vltor MUR upper, FN 16" carbine bbl, BCM BCG and a 15" troy Alpha rail / with Magpul MBUS and T1 red dot and gunfighter charging handle. Lower is a stripped spikes lower with an LMT LPK, Magpul enhanced trigger guard, MOE grip and CTR stock.
polymorpheous
07-03-13, 19:45
I posted this reply in another thread.
Hard to believe what the market looked like 4 months ago.
Free Aimpoint.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=7109-NS
All of this is so much personal preference. I have BCM complete uppers. Gov profile with FSB. They have never had one single malfunction or problem of any kind with a whole host of ammo brands and several thousand rounds through them.
Next I got DD complete uppers with lw profiles. Two with FSB and two low-pros. I really prefer the lighter weight of the barrel and so does my wife. Very noticeable because of where that weight sits. Both my wife and I decided we much prefer the low pro too. I shoot fine and can ignore the FSB in favor of my red dot, but I prefer to not have to ignore it and have a better, more unencumbered field of view. All of these have several hundred rounds through them, also with zero malfunctions or problems of any kind.
Finally, I bought a complete DD custom rifle, just for the novelty of buying my first complete AR, vs. piecing them together. This one has a lw, low-pro, 16" barrel too, but where all my others have carbine length gas systems, this one is my first middy. Its new, so only about 150 rounds through it so far (got a class coming up in August :D ), but again, zero malfunctions or problems. This one is my new favorite. Love it. I dry fire it, fondle it, and shoot it as often as possible.
The point of my rambling, is that you really need to buy it and use it, to discover your own preferences. Some people have no interest in an upper without a FSB. Other people won't even use one with a FSB. The argument about FSB vs. low-pro, has been had many times. Both groups hit their target. Both groups like their rifles. Same with lw vs. gov profile barrels. My preferences are based on my limited experiences. As I shoot more, and gain more experience, I will likely change my mind about some things again, and so too will you.
Bullet, I totally agree with your post, however with my limited experience, I like to get a broad range of thoughts and experiences from people who do have a lot of experience (hence my preference for forums like this) as it helps me to at least get some ideas/direction to proceed. I could just go buy one and run it, or I could get lots of info and opinions, wight them, try and make a more calculated decision and then buy it and run it. I prefer the latter.
Guys on here often bring something up I've never heard of or thought of before which leads me to searching and learning.
Funny enough, I'm the AR expert amongst a lot of my friends, they would all still be running Bushy's with crappy manual of arms if it wasn't for me, and I would too if it wasn't for this sight and the products, training etc I've been exposed to here. Much of that exposure came from posting or reading threads that were maybe a bit "newbish".
Thanks again everyone for the info.
I posted this reply in another thread.
Hard to believe what the market looked like 4 months ago.
Free Aimpoint.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=7109-NS
That's a hell of a deal.
Happy 4th of July everyone, and thanks to all who have or are serving in our armed forces.
Quick update on the BCM middy... Gentleman selling it offered to replace the Fortis rail with several other options;
- 11 inch Rainier/Samson Evolution rail
- 11 inch Noveske NSR
Thoughts?
Rugerspyderon
07-04-13, 21:36
Definitely the BCM!
Happy 4th of July everyone, and thanks to all who have or are serving in our armed forces.
Quick update on the BCM middy... Gentleman selling it offered to replace the Fortis rail with several other options;
- 11 inch Rainier/Samson Evolution rail
- 11 inch Noveske NSR
Thoughts?
I'd jump on that NSR
I'd jump on that NSR
Yea, I've always thought those looked like really neat rails. Light too... I'm trying to figure out how the BCM with the NSR rail would compare in weight / balance to the Colt w/ MOE.
Ok, I gotta make a decision and call one of these guys.
BCM middy will be softer shooting, which the wife will like. What I'm not sure about is how these will compare in balance and weight.
The carbine MOE hand guard is 6.85 oz. (I don't know what to add for the delta ring/handguard cap for the MOE, or the FSB, but I'm guessing at least an additional 3oz. right?)
The 11 inch Noveske NSR is 6.7 oz. + the proprietary barrel nut which is 3.1 oz.
I'm guessing those two will actually be pretty close when added up?
Is there really much difference in weight between a middy and carbine, and does it marginalize the improvement in recoil?
The Colt has a the MOE Carbine stock, the BCM has the Vltor IMOD stock, which will be heavier, HOWEVER, I've read a lot of comments on here stating that the overall weight is less of a concern than balance, and that a heavier stock often "lightens" the front end, which is better for smaller, weaker shooters.
Any thoughts or experience on how these two would balance and how the weight will end up for a woman?
I know I can't really go wrong with either, but I like to work it out as a learning process if nothing else.
With all the quality options in the AR world these days, it really comes down to preference (presuming you stick with quality manufacturers).
The one thing that I have found has spoiled me is the Noveske NSR handguards. While handguards can be very much a matter of personal taste, the slim profile and light weight are a godsend. All current and future AR's of mine have and will have NSR's.
I would love to see a .308/7.62 version of the NSR.
jaybirdritenour2
07-05-13, 23:20
+1 for the Colt. I love my SBR Colt M4 LE 6921 they make great rifles.
You also gotta look at what you'll want to do with the gun in the future.
With the colt a heavier buffer could help with felt recoil and the carbine gas (naturally over gassed) eats about any ammo you feed it. If you ever wanted to add a light a scout mount and surefire scout light is a great combo on the moe. Can't beat $10 for a mount. Plus you have the benefit of a factory built colt.
The other is built from mostly quality parts. The benefit of this rifle is the NSR rail. If you NEED free-float then this would be the way to go. The mid gas length is also a plus in my book if soft recoil is what you are after. But be careful when playing with buffers and weaker ammo. Adding a light can be as simple as adding a x300 in front of the front sight right at the 12 o'clock position.
You also gotta look at what you'll want to do with the gun in the future.
With the colt a heavier buffer could help with felt recoil and the carbine gas (naturally over gassed) eats about any ammo you feed it. If you ever wanted to add a light a scout mount and surefire scout light is a great combo on the moe. Can't beat $10 for a mount. Plus you have the benefit of a factory built colt.
The other is built from mostly quality parts. The benefit of this rifle is the NSR rail. If you NEED free-float then this would be the way to go. The mid gas length is also a plus in my book if soft recoil is what you are after. But be careful when playing with buffers and weaker ammo. Adding a light can be as simple as adding a x300 in front of the front sight right at the 12 o'clock position.
Truth be told, I can't really think of a reason the wife (or myself really) would NEED a free float rail. I have just wanted a BCM middy for a while, and the stock and rail combo are hard to pass up.
For her, a factory colt with MOE furniture is probably a perfectly reliably, shootable, simple, light and well balanced carbine.
I've shot and handled several friends 6920's, but I have no concept of the weight and balance of the BCM 16" middy with that NSR rail and Imod stock.
Heart says the BCM, head says the Colt. Ha!
As always, thanks for the input everyone.
jaybirdritenour2
07-06-13, 15:59
You wont go wrong either way. I say Colt ,but BCM makes great stuff.
Heart says the BCM, head says the Colt. Ha!
Both?? weren't you at some point pondering getting both your primary picks?:)
Truth be told, I can't really think of a reason the wife (or myself really) would NEED a free float rail. I have just wanted a BCM middy for a while, and the stock and rail combo are hard to pass up.
Our experience: Females don't like the weight forward aspect as much. Depending on barrel, the middy will have a more forward CG. Noticeably, even if the weight difference is nominal.
Likewise, gals (and many guys) seem to like the feel of MOE over many rails. Especially quad rails, etc.
Just depends on who is it primarily for, just know the gals tend to be more sensitive/picky about forward weight. For my daughter, I'm thinking LW 14.5 barrel with pinned hider, carbine action, MOE or super light rail.
PatrioticDisorder
07-07-13, 06:27
Our experience: Females don't like the weight forward aspect as much. Depending on barrel, the middy will have a more forward CG. Noticeably, even if the weight difference is nominal.
Likewise, gals (and many guys) seem to like the feel of MOE over many rails. Especially quad rails, etc.
Just depends on who is it primarily for, just know the gals tend to be more sensitive/picky about forward weight. For my daughter, I'm thinking LW 14.5 barrel with pinned hider, carbine action, MOE or super light rail.
My girlfriend calls my Daniel Defense M4V1 LW her rifle, she likes it so much. That gun feels like a feather in the front end. My Colt 6920 she did not like so much (had that 7" troy quad rail), as the DD is noticably lighter in the front end than the Colt and you can get your arm out farther on rail.
Both?? weren't you at some point pondering getting both your primary picks?:)
Yes I was, and I still am. My main concern is outfitting my wife with something that will be great for her.
My girlfriend calls my Daniel Defense M4V1 LW her rifle, she likes it so much. That gun feels like a feather in the front end. My Colt 6920 she did not like so much (had that 7" troy quad rail), as the DD is noticably lighter in the front end than the Colt and you can get your arm out farther on rail.
Our experience: Females don't like the weight forward aspect as much. Depending on barrel, the middy will have a more forward CG. Noticeably, even if the weight difference is nominal.
Likewise, gals (and many guys) seem to like the feel of MOE over many rails. Especially quad rails, etc.
Just depends on who is it primarily for, just know the gals tend to be more sensitive/picky about forward weight. For my daughter, I'm thinking LW 14.5 barrel with pinned hider, carbine action, MOE or super light rail.
I've been thinking about something like this as it has been suggested several times in this thread. I broadened my search a bit and came across this;
http://phoenix.backpage.com/SportsEquipForSale/1850-bcm-eag-hs-145-mid-length-556-rifle/23150829
Given the recommendations here, I'm thinking this may be perfect for her.
It does seem high, unless I'm missing something. That upper on the Bravo Company website is listed at $725 with BCG and MBUS. Add $45 for the A2x and we're at $770. I'm not sure where the other $1080 is.. what am I missing?
The fellow with the BCM is apparently an armorer who builds and sells on the side. He mentioned to me that he is happy to throw on a 16" LW BCM or DD bbl to make the weapon lighter for the wife. Doesn't have a 14.5 right now, but does have 16" LW both with FSB and without. That ought to help! Thanks again for all the info.
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