Why is one AR better....

[ucrt]

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This is “info” that I have been accumulating over the years to answer, “Why one AR is better than another One”.

I’m sure “The Chart” was the resource that started my list but, as you can tell, I've added a “few” more points.

Obviously, I cannot answer, “Why one AR is better than another One”…but maybe give someone information to
research before they make a poor decision.

Hopefully, this is halfway accurate and maybe a little useful.
Perhaps it will answer (or at least generate concerns) to the “Why...” question.


Things to consider about an AR’s:
1 Action Spring (SS, CS, Pneumatic, other)
2 Barrel Chamber 5.56 NATO (Yes/No)
3 Barrel Chamber ID'd (5.56N, .223, None, etc.)
4 Barrel Lands/Grooves (#)
5 Barrel Lining (None, Chrome, Melonite, etc.)
6 Barrel Extension M4 Feed Ramp (Yes/No)
7 Barrel finished beneath FSB/Gas Block (Parkerized, etc., not)
8 Barrel Material (CMV-(Chrome Moly Vanadium), Plastic, 4150, SS, etc.)
9 Barrel Rifling Twist (1-7, 1-8, 1-9, etc.)
10 Barrel Tested (Yes/No)
11 Barrel Tests (MPI, HPT, etc.)
12 Barrel Test Proof Markings (MPI, HPT, etc.)
13 Bolt Carrier (Auto or Semi)
14 Bolt Carrier Group Tested (Yes/No)
15 Bolt Carrier Group Testings (Each, Batch, etc.)
16 Bolt Carrier Group Tests (MPI, HPT, etc.)
17 Bolt Carrier Lining (CL, Nickel, none, etc.)
18 Bolt Shot Peened (Yes/No)
19 Bolt Tested (Yes/No)
20 Bolt Tests (MPI, HP, etc.)
21 Buffer Tube (Mil Spec or Commercial)
22 Buffer Weight (Stamping: Standard, H, H2, etc.)
23 Castle Nut Stake ‘able (Yes/No)
24 Castle Nut Staked (Yes/No)
25 Extractor Spring Coils (4, 5, etc.)
26 Extractor Spring Insert (Yes/No)
27 Extractor Spring Insert Color (Blue, Black, etc.)
28 Extractor Spring O-Ring (Yes/No)
29 Firing Pin Material (USGI, SS, Titanium, etc.)
30 Flared Mag Well (Yes/No)
31 Flash Hider (Suppressor, Compensator, etc.) (Yes/No)
32 Flash Hider Attachment (Perm, Removable)
33 Flash Hider Attachment Technique (Pin, weld, none, etc)
34 Flash Hider Make (USGI, Knight, Vortex, etc.)
34a Flash Hider Properly Timed (Yes/No)
35 Fore-End Heat Shields (Yes/No)
36 Front Sight (Yes/No)
37 Front Sight "F" stamped (Yes/No)
38 Front Sight Overall Height (BM or USGI)
39 Front Sight Base/Gas Block Tapered Pins (Yes/No)
40 Lower Construction (Billet, Cast, CNC, Forged, etc.)
41 Lower ID Marking (Yes/No)
42 Lower ID Markings (Colt, BCM, etc.)
43 Lower Material (7075, Plastic, 6061, etc.)
44 Lower-USGI Mags Drop-Free (Yes/No)
45 Threaded Fasteners Stake ‘able & Staked (Yes/No)
46 Trigger Pins (USGI, KNS, etc.)
47 Upper Construction (Billet, CNC, Forged, Cast, etc.)
48 Upper Forge Mark (Square, Keyhole, etc.)
49 Upper ID Marking (Yes/No)
50 Upper ID Markings (BCM, Colt, etc.)
51 Upper Material (7075, 6061, Plastic, etc.)
52 Are parts proprietary (Yes/No)

Options that contribute to AR’s but do little to significantly improve it:
53 Action Length (Carbine, Mid, Inter, Rifle, etc.)
54 Adjustable stock lock lever (Yes/No)
55 Ambidextrous Bolt Catch ? (Yes/No)
56 Ambidextrous Bolt Catch Maker (Troy, B.A.D., etc.)
57 Ambidextrous Mag Release (Yes/No)
58 Ambidextrous Mag Release Maker (Troy, B.A.D., etc.)
59 Barrel Finish (Parkerized, Melonite, Stellite, etc.)
60 Barrel Length
61 Barrel Maker Markings (Yes/No)
62 Barrel Maker Marks (Colt, DD, LMT, etc.)
63 Barrel Rifling Twist Markings (1-7, 1-8, 1-9, etc.)
64 Barrel Marks (Colt, MPI, 1-7, etc.)
65 Barrel Profile (M4, A1, A2, Socom, Straight, Pencil, etc.)
66 Bayonet Lug (Yes/No)
67 Bolt Carrier ID ’d (Yes/No)
68 Bolt Carrier ID Markings (BCM, Colt, etc.)
69 Buffer Tube Adjustments (4, 5, etc.)
70 Buffer Tube marked (Yes/No)
71 Charging Handle ID’d
72 Charging Handle Mark (Yes/No)
73 Finish Color (Black, Gray, FDE, etc.)
74 Front Sight Adjustment (4 point, 5 point, etc.)
75 Front Sight Sight Pin Height (BM or USGI)
76 Front Sight Type (folding, fixed, removable, etc.)
77 Grip Make (USGI, Tango, Magpul, etc.)
78 Lower Carry Handle (Yes/No)
79 Lower Fit Adjustments (Yes/No)
80 Pistol Grip (USGI, Magpul, etc.)
81 Pistol Grip Storage Area
82 Quick Detach Swivel Points(s) (Yes/No)
83 Rear Sight (Yes/No)
84 Rear Sight Type (folding, fixed, removable, etc.)
85 Recoil Pad (Yes/No)
86 Trigger (Single or 2-Stage)
87 Trigger (straight or curved)
88 Trigger Guard (pinned, built in)
89 Trigger Guard Make (USGI, Magpul, etc.)
90 Trigger Guard Shape (USGI, Winter, etc.)
91 Trigger Make (USGI, Geissele, etc.)
92 Upper Picatinny Slots Numbered (Yes/No)
93 ???

Well that’s it.

I'm sure, there is a lot of clarification needed and points to add, if so add ‘em.

Remember, this is mostly based on my limited ability to accumulate knowledge
from shooting, reading, tinkering, talking, making mistakes, etc.


But…maybe it just me?
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[Quentin]

Well that's quite a list, no doubt that took some time! Thanks for posting it.

Seems like five or six years ago a guy put about 21 or so of those specs in a nice spreadsheet! :D

[Sentaruu]

this guy?

http://gunfacts.webs.com/m4chart.png

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

It's a lot easier to simply buy one of the following:

KAC
Colt
Larue
Noveske
Daniel Defense
BCM
Spikes

Any of the above will work.

[GH41]

It's a lot easier to simply buy one of the following:

KAC
Colt
Larue
Noveske
Daniel Defense
BCM
Spikes

Any of the above will work.

And a number of other ones not mentioned. GH

[jaxman7]

It's a lot easier to simply buy one of the following:

KAC
Colt
Larue
Noveske
Daniel Defense
BCM
Spikes

Any of the above will work.

Yes and I think ucrt's reasoning for his post is to show what to look for in a rifle.

Quality brands like you mentioned not withstanding, ucrt's list gives a list of things to look for in a rifle. Consequently that list will lead one to quality makers like DD, Noveske, etc.

You can tell people to buy LMT over a Bushmaster but to give the why as well makes a world of difference.

-Jax

[ucrt]

Yes and I think ucrt's reasoning for his post is to show what to look for in a rifle.

Quality brands like you mentioned not withstanding, ucrt's list gives a list of things to look for in a rifle. Consequently that list will lead one to quality makers like DD, Noveske, etc.

You can tell people to buy LMT over a Bushmaster but to give the why as well makes a world of difference.

-Jax

============================

Thank you, Jaxman.

IMO, the part of the Chart posted previously is the "lazy" part. Probably, one of the reasons Rob_S gave up keeping it current. I bet most of the people that claim the Chart have never read the 1300+ postings of the thread.

By far, the most valuable part of the Chart is the Explanation section.
"M4 Comparison Chart and Explanation of Desirable Features ".

I've found that guys hopping to the end of the Chart and broadcasting the "antique" incomplete list of high scoring "winners" of the rating portion of the Chart, as their "knowledge", really don't have a clue.

But maybe it's just me...

Thanks again, Jaxman7.

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[RMiller]

Exactly. Sometimes it takes laying the differences out in front of somebody to get the point across.


Yes and I think ucrt's reasoning for his post is to show what to look for in a rifle.

Quality brands like you mentioned not withstanding, ucrt's list gives a list of things to look for in a rifle. Consequently that list will lead one to quality makers like DD, Noveske, etc.

You can tell people to buy LMT over a Bushmaster but to give the why as well makes a world of difference.

-Jax

[submoa77]

Hey UCRT how many of these are on a RRA M4 ? I may buy one. I like the list.Is the Rock River worth looking at??

[VIP3R 237]

Hey UCRT how many of these are on a RRA M4 ? I may buy one. I like the list.Is the Rock River worth looking at??

No. RRA has never scored well and is well documented to be a substandard rifle, especially when Colt and BCM are in the same price range.

[SW-Shooter]

Why doesn't PSA uppers get any respect, they offer one of the best barrels made?

[CrazyFingers]

Did you miss "Gas key properly staked" ?

[polydeuces]

Why doesn't PSA uppers get any respect, they offer one of the best barrels made?

Perhaps for the same reason AIMSURPLUS ( just to name one of the many many many...) is not mentioned - they're not a manufacturer per se - they put in a large enough order (of what is - granted- a quality item) and just slap their name on it.

Offering a version of a FN barrel and some other parts does not make you a manufacturer of a highly respected AR platform, nor put you in the same league of any of them.

Me thinks.

[jaxman7]

....deleted

[LESSTHANZERO]

Thank you for the list.

[crusader377]

Why doesn't PSA uppers get any respect, they offer one of the best barrels made?

I think one of the reasons is that PSA doesn't sell that many complete rifles compared to the number of uppers that they sell.

Second, Although PSA is a great vendor if you know what you are looking for, they offer several quality grades of components and you really need to look at the detail description of each item.

For example, just with BCGs, PSA sells a full mil-spec BCG that has C158 bolt and that is HPT/MPI inspected, a C158 bolt BCG that is not tested, and a 8620 bolt BCG.

Uppers are the same way. They same CHF FN barrel uppers, cut rifled FN barrel uppers, 4150 barrel uppers but not FN (Wilson?), and 4140 barreled uppers.

Most of their other parts are like this as well.

[ucrt]

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Hey UCRT how many of these are on a RRA M4 ? I may buy one. I like the list.Is the Rock River worth looking at??

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

submoa77,

To answer your question…”no”.

To me, too many of "my concerns” are not met with a Rock River…

But maybe it’s just me…


--------------------------

[ucrt]

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Thank you for the list.

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Thank you for your "thank you". Thought my "list" was lost. :)

The original intent of my “list” was to give people the elements that make AR’s differ from each other, so they could do their own research and find out if a "Cagalicky Mohicky" AR is a good brand.

Modern technology allows someone to find justification for about anything. AR’s included.
…but what is good about modern technology, you can find the “facts”, IF you’re willing to do research to gain the information to discern the truths from the opinions and hopefully, make a good decision.

As you can tell by some of the earlier posts, most people are “research lazy” and just want someone to tell them “what’s a good brand”.

Maybe it is just me but I wanted an AR that didn’t just “look” like a real AR but why and what makes one was better than another. So, that's why I started making my "list".

With so few "views" of this thread the past few months, I figure it was my "title" or I just put too much value in my 90+ "concerns" and I was out in left field with my thinking.

Oh well, maybe it is just me... :)

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[walkin' trails]

No. RRA has never scored well and is well documented to be a substandard rifle, especially when Colt and BCM are in the same price range.

I have had a RRA issue gun for several years and have about 8500 rounds thru it. I know I do not run it as hard as many of you do, but it has always worked. I also own an A4 varient that has some sentimental value. I've got around 500 trouble free rounds thru that one. That said, as I have more time to perfect my skills on a rifle, I will probably get a Bravo Company when I've saved up my lunch money.

My question is about the basic parts - I.e. upper and lower receivers on RRAs - how do they stack up if a guy decided to build his own? I see RRA lowers on a lot of home builds, as well as Stags and others. Are the basic materials and dimensions consistent with the upper end mil spec guns?

[CrazyFingers]

My question is about the basic parts - I.e. upper and lower receivers on RRAs -

To say "a lower is a lower" would not be entirely accurate, however I believe that many users feel that there is more latitude given on lowers than uppers. As long as a lower is properly constructed and fitted (and this seems easier to accomplish) , they generally function correctly. The upper receiver group is far more critical to the correct operation of an AR-15, and this seems to be where many lower-end companies find corners to cut. These corners are in both crucial components such as barrel steel and treatments, bolt composition, etc., as well as testing and verifying fitness for use (HPT/MPI, etc.)

[NWcityguy2]

I have had a RRA issue gun for several years and have about 8500 rounds thru it. I know I do not run it as hard as many of you do, but it has always worked.

You shouldn't discount your ARs track record because of its manufacturer or on the idea that your standard/needs are lower than many other posters here. If your AR runs then it runs.

I like the idea of a list of things to consider when buying an AR. Threads dominated with one liner posts like "Colt, BCM and DD or go home" is for fanboys. Understand what makes a rifle desirable for your specific needs is far better.

[ennbeegunny15]

op you've led the horses to water, but from what I see you can't always make em drink....

[JS-Maine]

op you've led the horses to water, but from what I see you can't always make em drink....

I am very thankful for the guys that put together lists like this. This horse is thoroughly hydrated BTW. I did a lot of reading as it is, but without posts like this I can't imagine the time and research I would have invested before buying a truly top notch product. Many thanks!

[ucrt]

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FWIW, I added "34A". Just another small concern.

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[TehLlama]

Too much mission diversity to really peg down many of these.

For a precision rifle - I'm wanting stainless steel, mid-length at the shortest for gas system, a muzzle device that mounts a can and/or doesn't need to be timed. An aftermarket trigger makes more sense, as does a pricier telescoping stock setup.

For a general use carbine - I'd prefer a CHF lightweight barreled setup with relatively few frills - any trigger will do, the iron sights are only there for if the reflex or 1-4x optic takes a vacation; telescoping stock is still a must, but something cheaper and lighter is preferable.


So much of that list has something as conclusively better - a full auto BCG is simply better, .mil sized stock tube is never worse, and doesn't cost more, unless it's an F/A lower the GI trigger pins are fine, and unless you're spending thousands on a sub-MOA rifle anything but forged receivers is ill advised, or more frequently money spent on cosmetics that hopefully isn't skimping on actually important parts.


It would take a lot of time to go through all of those, many of them are (for me) very one sided on opinion, and a few of them are more mission driven than anything else (a light 1:8" twist CHF barrel should be great all around - but almost every other common variation will fill that role for general purpose just fine too).

Mostly a LOT of the 'does little' category are actually huge differences in performance. A rifle gassed 17" feels other worlds different from a carbine gassed 16" unit as far as recoil impulse.
Barrel make makes an absolutely tremendous difference - mostly because other factors are also varied, but those two things make a much bigger difference than 2/3 of what you have listed above there.


If you want that list to be more of a reference - might need to be organized by component type (or what subgroup), then sorted by what is set from the factory and what is user-install. Though the majority of those sorts of things are set in the mil spec, there are some significant ones where civilian AR's differ, and those are worth highlighting.

[Hmac]

Little thread drift, but this pretty interesting. I think it's representative of the mindset error of those who might use a police agency's choice of firearms and an endorsement of quality. The Jacksonville, FL Sheriff's Office apparently had a FCG malfunction with one of their issue rifles, an Olympic Arms. They have decided to recall all of their rifles and replace them. With DPMS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YiLvwKrVaVI


Here's Olympic Arms response the the JSO press conference.

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/content/topstories/story/Rifle-manufacturer-says-JSO-wasting-taxpayer/fzR7akuouk6RWAbZRaKmeQ.cspx