View Full Version : states lift ban on food stamps for convicted drug offenders
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jun/28/opinion/la-ed-calfresh-food-aid-drug-offenders-20130628
apparently 14 other stares have already done this.
the sound bite I heard on NPR made me think that the person who was complaining about not being able to obtain food stamps for her children should have stopped having children.
isn't it the case that you should only have as many children that you can support??
Moose-Knuckle
07-05-13, 18:19
I'm pretty certain they know what causes pregnancy, it's not like they don't have two other . . . errr never mind.
Under social engineering programs for every human they spit out the more tax payer money they are given in forms of entitlements WIC/EBT/etc. It’s like being rewarded for opening your legs. Cloward–Piven at its apex.
GeorgiaBoy
07-05-13, 18:53
isn't it the case that you should only have as many children that you can support??
In a perfect world, yes. But this isn't a perfect world and people that shouldn't be having children, have children, and its not the children's fault.
In a perfect world, yes. But this isn't a perfect world and people that shouldn't be having children, have children, and its not the children's fault.
Not mine, either.
Ever hear the term "perverse incentive?"
NeoNeanderthal
07-05-13, 19:43
Im a huge supporter of the food stamp program.
People make good points ("its not my fault they are having kids when they shouldnt") but it is not the childs fault, and they should not have to suffer malnutrition. Food stamps amount to something near 200$ per person per month (in my state). That is chump change. If we restructured welfare, disability and unemployment the savings could EASILY cover food stamps.
You can only buy food with them. Of course people could sell them for cash but in my state its an EBT(debit) card not actual stamps. The card has a name on it, and it should be required to check/match with a photo id. This would solve all those issues.
If you think 200$ worth of extra food credit per month is an incentive to have a kid, your insane. Obviously welfare is where the real money is made, and it is what encourages people to have kids.
there's a lot if ebt abuse if my understanding is correct.
I don't think that children should suffer hunger but I also believe in consequences...
I think the existence of a food stamp program isn't offensive. I think it is not good that people essentially subsist on food stamps as well as section 8 and all the other programs as a whole.
I recently heard a commentary that talked about what one is willing to do for his or her family. the conclusion was there's no job too bad crappy if your family needs you. and the take away was shame on those who don't take a crappy job their family.
filthy phil
07-05-13, 20:12
Here ebt cards can get cash back.
So not only does our "freedom" loving society lock up it's own citizens literally by the millions every year for drug related offenses...mainly through simple possession charges (America blows every other country away in terms of imprisoning their own population according to the statics), for years we've made it policy that when these hardcore drug criminals get released....we play hunger games with them, and often times more importantly, we starve out their families/children in the process because what the hell, they should be punished too :rolleyes:
While CO on one hand took a huge step backwards in terms of their particular State freedoms by killing hi cap mags.....they truly have dealt this first death blow to Nixon's infamous "War on Drugs". Colorado will single handily kill the Governments, DEAs, Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, and big Alcohol's war on Marijuana that has been set in stone since the 1930s.
Perhaps 50% of the War on drugs deals with Marijuana...and I can't wait til every person who gets a paycheck fighting the marijuana portion loses their career.....paycheck....and what do you know, their FOOD. These folks will now be flipping society's hamburgers for them, which at least will be a honorable profession as opposed to their last one :)
FWIW....I still fully support stripping food stamps away for murders, rapists, or any other violet offender that's been convicted.
ETA: "In its wisdom, or what passed for it at the time, Congress in 1996 banned anyone convicted of a drug-related offense from ever getting food stamps. People convicted of rape, murder or armed robbery were eligible for food aid, but not former drug offenders. It was the height of the war on drugs, and lawmakers were bent on punishing addicts and dealers."
Apparently the OP of that article and myself are on the same wavelength.
Moose-Knuckle
07-05-13, 20:24
Free ObamaDollars: The EBT Card for Cigarettes and Alcohol
http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/ann-mariemurrell/2012/07/03/free_obamadollars_the_ebt_card_for_cigarettes_and_alcohol/page/full
Does Your State Allow Fast Food Purchases On Food Stamps? Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, KFC... on food stamps?
http://blackgirlsguidetoweightloss.com/news-feed/does-your-state-allow-fast-food-purchases-on-food-stamps/
Fast Food Chains Getting Into the Food Stamp Act
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2011/09/fast-food-chains-getting-into-the-food-stamp-act/
Lotto Loophole Allows Ticket Purchases With EBT Cards
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012/03/30/lotto-loophole-allows-ticket-purchases-with-ebt-cards/
Massachusetts governor's welfare card restrictions would still allow purchases at nail salons and jewelry stores
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/09/massachusetts-governor-welfare-card-restrictions-would-still-allow-purchases-at/#ixzz2YDy4mR5j
so should we give entitlement programs to criminals? I would say all convicts should get the same exemption of eligibility for said programs.
what makes you think 50% of the war on drugs is marijuana? just because if the weights seized? is that an accurate measurement or comparison? what do you think makes more money? Mexican ditch weed or methamphetamine and cocaine? if the drug trade were contingent on the trafficking of marijuana that would be a joke since it is essentially legal in California. if you look up the average sentence for marijuana trafficking the joke is reflected.
How anyone thinks that a one standard fits all approach works when dealing with both a simple possession of marijuana conviction, as well as a rape of a minor/murder conviction is beyond archaic....it's just plain idiotic to the nth degree imho.
Generally speaking, people who support marijuana prohibition have absolutely no clue about the real world statics, and effects that it actually has. The last thing in the world an anti marijuana believer is gonna do is quote studies, or official statics, given one can't maintain that level of blissful ignorance once they actually study the topic at hand.
Q: How many people are arrested each year for marijuana offenses?
A: According to the FBI, there were over 1.7 million arrests for drug violations in the United States in 2008. Over 750,000 of these arrests were for simple possession (i.e., not selling, growing, or distributing) of marijuana, and an additional 93,000 were for selling or trafficking marijuana. These numbers reflect the number of arrests reported, not the number of individuals arrested – hence, the same people may have been arrested multiple times in the course of the same reporting year. Thus, it is impossible to know how many individuals are arrested for simple possession of marijuana each year. Additionally, arrest data does not distinguish between actual arrests and the issuing of citations or tickets, so it is difficult to know how many of these arrests involved taking a person into physical custody or placing them in jail.
Q: How long, on average, is the sentence for a federal marijuana offense?
A: The average sentence for a federal marijuana crime is just over three years (36.2 months). This average sentence is significantly shorter than the average federal prison sentences for offenses involving any other type of drug.
Source for above info:
FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION, CRIME IN THE UNITED
STATES 2008, ARRESTS, available at http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008 /arrests/index.html (last visited Aug. 17, 2010).
http://tokesignals.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/AnnualMarijuanaArrestsInUS.png
Source: NORML
your source is 5 years old.
you can't keep anyone locked up in California for longer than it takes them to get sentenced. I'm sure there are places like Arizona that still have stiff sentences for marijuana, but marijuana is a joke and it is hardly the bulk of the war on drugs.
life would continue on as normal if the local and federal law enforcement stopped the marijuana enforcement.
your bit about those who enforce the marijuana portion of the law is funny namely because the arrest stats that you cited come from local cops. they're not suddenly disappearing when the law stops caring about marijuana.
Almost every local police department has at least a Drug taskforce....and there are plenty of actual individual marijuana taskforces in the larger major cities.
They have a show on discovery or natgeo called Pot Cops.....so obviously the Government...both local, and federal have dedicated, fully funded programs targeting nothing but marijuana. It's not just the good ole beat cop arresting possession violators randomly during the course of his other activities as your last reply implied.
If marijuana is such a non issue/joke, and nobody is really getting in trouble than why in 2012 does the state of California easily lead the nation is marijuana arrests via the DEA....aka the place you said it's "practically legal". Not only is it not practically legal....it's the front line for the DEA's massive effort against marijuana.
California DEA efforts arrested 2,045 people in 2012.
Arizona DEA efforts arrested 79 people in 2012.
Your analogy is completely bassawkwards.
http://www.justice.gov/dea/ops/cannabis_2012.pdf
Domestic Cannabis Eradication / Suppression Program
Marijuana is the only major drug of abuse grown within the U.S. borders. The DEA is aggressively striving to halt the spread of cannabis cultivation in the United States. To accomplish this, the DEA initiated the Domestic Cannabis Eradication/Suppression Program (DCE/SP), which is the only nationwide law enforcement program that exclusively targets Drug Trafficking Organizations (DTO) involved in cannabis cultivation.
The DCE/SP began funding eradication programs in Hawaii and California in 1979. The program rapidly expanded to include programs in 25 states by 1982. By 1985, all 50 states were participating in the DCE/SP. In 2012, the DEA continued its nation-wide cannabis eradication efforts, providing resources to support the 116 state and local law enforcement agencies that actively participate in the program. This assistance allows the enhancement of already aggressive eradication enforcement activities throughout the nation. In 2012, the DCE/SP was responsible for the eradication of 3,631,582 cultivated outdoor cannabis plants and 302,377 indoor plants. In addition, the DCE/SP has attributed for 6,508 arrests and the seizure in excess of 32 million dollars of cultivator assets. The program also removed 10,439 weapons from cannabis cultivators.
The success of the DCE/SP is directly attributed to the decision of the participating agencies to share intelligence, technology and manpower. In many areas of the U.S., cultivators have been forced to abandon large outdoor cannabis plots in favor of smaller, better concealed illicit gardens.
http://www.justice.gov/dea/ops/cannabis.shtml
No worries though in regards to our differing opinions, as I live in prehistoric Alabama, and am not a Toker....the only reason I care is because I'm old fashion, and still cling to the idea that Americans should be the freest people on earth, even though we all know that's bullshit. Locking up almost a million people a yr. alone for marijuana just reminds me how much of a pipe dream American freedom really is.
Should you get the chance I highly recommend you investigate the ecological damage an outdoor marijuana grow causes to what is usually public land, where the public hikes and hunts or at least they do until that tract is closed due to the poisoning, etc. I'd also recommend a visit to an indoor grow operation, most of which are conducted in rental properties. We just saw a $50,000.00 damage estimate to a property from the conversion from 2,300 sq/ft residence to illicit commercial agri-business. Sure, these guys aren't hurting anyone.
Im a huge supporter of the food stamp program.
People make good points ("its not my fault they are having kids when they shouldnt") but it is not the childs fault, and they should not have to suffer malnutrition. Food stamps amount to something near 200$ per person per month (in my state). That is chump change. If we restructured welfare, disability and unemployment the savings could EASILY cover food stamps.
You can only buy food with them. Of course people could sell them for cash but in my state its an EBT(debit) card not actual stamps. The card has a name on it, and it should be required to check/match with a photo id. This would solve all those issues.
If you think 200$ worth of extra food credit per month is an incentive to have a kid, your insane. Obviously welfare is where the real money is made, and it is what encourages people to have kids.
I find the idea that Americans would let children starve unless forced to feed them by govt decree absurd.
But that would be "charity," for which the recipient would be expected to feel, if not express, gratitude.
You should watch the video John Stossel did about food stamp waste, fraud and abuse. Then I can almost bet you will have different feelings.
Im a huge supporter of the food stamp program.
People make good points ("its not my fault they are having kids when they shouldnt") but it is not the childs fault, and they should not have to suffer malnutrition. Food stamps amount to something near 200$ per person per month (in my state). That is chump change. If we restructured welfare, disability and unemployment the savings could EASILY cover food stamps.
You can only buy food with them. Of course people could sell them for cash but in my state its an EBT(debit) card not actual stamps. The card has a name on it, and it should be required to check/match with a photo id. This would solve all those issues.
If you think 200$ worth of extra food credit per month is an incentive to have a kid, your insane. Obviously welfare is where the real money is made, and it is what encourages people to have kids.
And with regard to children, most poor areas have free school breakfast and lunch available.
And looking at children in poor areas, it seems like morbid obesity and Type 2 juvenile diabetes is a bigger health problem than lack of food.
I know a guy who works at a gas station/food mart as a 2nd job. He told me that EBT can be used on anything with a nutritional label. This includes $4 energy drinks, $10 packs of jerky, candy bars, etc... Then in the grocery stores they can purchase high end stuff like fillet mignon, lobster, etc...
Voodoo_Man
07-06-13, 08:51
I know a guy who works at a gas station/food mart as a 2nd job. He told me that EBT can be used on anything with a nutritional label. This includes $4 energy drinks, $10 packs of jerky, candy bars, etc... Then in the grocery stores they can purchase high end stuff like fillet mignon, lobster, etc...
Of course they can.
It is their reward for electing their king.
there's a lot if ebt abuse if my understanding is correct.
I don't think that children should suffer hunger but I also believe in consequences...
I think the existence of a food stamp program isn't offensive. I think it is not good that people essentially subsist on food stamps as well as section 8 and all the other programs as a whole.
I recently heard a commentary that talked about what one is willing to do for his or her family. the conclusion was there's no job too bad crappy if your family needs you. and the take away was shame on those who don't take a crappy job their family.
Are you for real? There is so much fraud in the food stamp/ebt program that it is unsustainable over time. When a healthy individual who could work doing anything in my AO from digging ditches to mucking horse stalls the fact that they get food stamps is insane. I was in a convenience store the other day and I watched a young female buy a 16 ounce beer with cash and then get a pack of gum with an ebt card. It really pissed me off since both my wife and I bust are arse to make ends meet and many times we don't. The fact that gov't got involved is what has screwed up the desire to work and provide for your family.
Dan
I am shocked! A govt program with waste, fraud and abuse???!!!! The Horror!
That said, the problems with welfare programs can't even begin to compare to the waste, fraud and abuse found in the DoD, DHS, NSA and CIA. Want to cut some spending? Start with our Notional Security establishment before going after some poor bum trying to buy a pack of Newports with their Independence Card.
This sort of token nonsense is the reason 'normal' people don't take "conservatives" seriously.
I am shocked! A govt program with waste, fraud and abuse???!!!! The Horror!
That said, the problems with welfare programs can't even begin to compare to the waste, fraud and abuse found in the DoD, DHS, NSA and CIA. Want to cut some spending? Start with our Notional Security establishment before going after some poor bum trying to buy a pack of Newports with their Independence Card.
This sort of token nonsense is the reason 'normal' people don't take "conservatives" seriously.
The problem is that ebt/food stamp fraud is the most seen by everyone. I agree about the amount of waste in the government. It is just asine the amount of money that is just given out mostly as pork so that the elected officials can get re-elected. The problem is none of the elected officials want to do what is right but what is easy and gets them re-elected.
Dan
Moose-Knuckle
07-06-13, 14:52
The fact that gov't got involved is what has screwed up the desire to work and provide for your family.
All by design.
The Cloward-Piven Strategy of Orchestrated Crisis
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/barack_obama_and_the_strategy.html
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7522
I would feel much better about the food stamp program if it was more specific about what could be purchased with it. ONLY staples, fresh veggies, fruits, etc.). None of this processed crap, sugars, steak/lobster, etc. It should provide sustenance, not necessarily enjoyment. You want to eat better, then WORK FOR IT.
We have created our own no-win situation: The State taking care of children whose parents refuse to, therefore encouraging creation of more of the same. I'm willing to bet that less than 20% of those seeking assistance REALLY REALLY need it...the rest of just leaching on the free shit army plan...
I know a guy who works at a gas station/food mart as a 2nd job. He told me that EBT can be used on anything with a nutritional label. This includes $4 energy drinks, $10 packs of jerky, candy bars, etc... Then in the grocery stores they can purchase high end stuff like fillet mignon, lobster, etc...
When I worked as a cashier in high school at a grocery store, it was all junk food, steak, lobster, shrimp and ribs. It should be structured like WIC with an approved list with a defined timetable.
Are you for real? There is so much fraud in the food stamp/ebt program that it is unsustainable over time. When a healthy individual who could work doing anything in my AO from digging ditches to mucking horse stalls the fact that they get food stamps is insane. I was in a convenience store the other day and I watched a young female buy a 16 ounce beer with cash and then get a pack of gum with an ebt card. It really pissed me off since both my wife and I bust are arse to make ends meet and many times we don't. The fact that gov't got involved is what has screwed up the desire to work and provide for your family.
Dan
ok, again i don't think the existence of the food stamp program is offensive. i don't think the existence of welfare programs is even offensive. but people should not be able to subsist their entire lives and their forthcoming generations following suit. this is coming from a perspective of someone who is familiar with the age old food stamp program where there were actually booklets of coupons that looked like monopoly money.
the overall point of my op was that i thought it laughable that this lady was speaking on npr, complaining in an entitled fashion about how it was injustice that she was denied food stamps because of her criminal history. she spent time in jail and still managed to become a mother of 4. sure i don't get to judge her life, but i do believe in consequences. in ages past if you messed up that badly your children would starve or they'd be taken away from you by another more capable family to become a cinderella slave.
that is all i really meant. i'm sure compared to dod, dhs, cia, doj, etc. the food stamp program is merely pennies. you can also then compare the food stamp program's budget to the budget for international aid, the low intensity conflict against the smuggling of controlled substances, the low intensity conflict against smuggling of commercial products, etc. the one thing i have to say about the food stamp program against all these other programmatic areas of the government is that there is no one stopping you from getting a shitty job to feed your family. if you want 'em, there's plenty of shitty jobs, my own mother would take two or three when i was growing up. however no one else is going to pay boeing, raytheon, lockheed martin etc., no one else is going to carry the guns and conduct the investigations, no one else is going to develop the intelligence and maintain the contacts of the other programmatic areas unless you pay them to do so.
Almost every local police department has at least a Drug taskforce....and there are plenty of actual individual marijuana taskforces in the larger major cities.
They have a show on discovery or natgeo called Pot Cops.....so obviously the Government...both local, and federal have dedicated, fully funded programs targeting nothing but marijuana. It's not just the good ole beat cop arresting possession violators randomly during the course of his other activities as your last reply implied.
i would hazard a guess and say that the majority of arrests for marijuana possession are from programs like stop and frisk in nyc. is this a violation of 4th amendment rights? one can certainly argue that and i might have an inclination to agree. these petty marijuana statistics and charges are the result. i would add that if marijuana were legal, there would be something else that was illegal found on the people who were stopped and frisked. i don't think that justifies such a program either, but that's what i believe would be the outcome.
if you think the majority of the stats come from large seizures and the service of warrants on houses, i would ask to see more data. not saying i know, just saying i find it more difficult to believe.
If marijuana is such a non issue/joke, and nobody is really getting in trouble than why in 2012 does the state of California easily lead the nation is marijuana arrests via the DEA....aka the place you said it's "practically legal". Not only is it not practically legal....it's the front line for the DEA's massive effort against marijuana.
California DEA efforts arrested 2,045 people in 2012.
Arizona DEA efforts arrested 79 people in 2012.
Your analogy is completely bassawkwards.
http://www.justice.gov/dea/ops/cannabis_2012.pdf
i would say that marijuana is practically legal in california mainly because you can possess it and not get arrested. you can be caught with a certain amount and in certain places you would only receive a fine. one of the reason the statistics are higher in california certainly has to stem from the fact that california has the highest statistics for many things. california has many more people and california has the real estate and geography that a place like new york doesn't. there's more marijuana produced in california, by more people. there's more marijuana trafficked into california from mexico across land and from other destinations via the ocean.
Domestic Cannabis Eradication / Suppression Program
Marijuana is the only major drug of abuse grown within the U.S. borders. The DEA is aggressively striving to halt the spread of cannabis cultivation in the United States. To accomplish this, the DEA initiated the Domestic Cannabis Eradication/Suppression Program (DCE/SP), which is the only nationwide law enforcement program that exclusively targets Drug Trafficking Organizations (DTO) involved in cannabis cultivation.
The DCE/SP began funding eradication programs in Hawaii and California in 1979. The program rapidly expanded to include programs in 25 states by 1982. By 1985, all 50 states were participating in the DCE/SP. In 2012, the DEA continued its nation-wide cannabis eradication efforts, providing resources to support the 116 state and local law enforcement agencies that actively participate in the program. This assistance allows the enhancement of already aggressive eradication enforcement activities throughout the nation. In 2012, the DCE/SP was responsible for the eradication of 3,631,582 cultivated outdoor cannabis plants and 302,377 indoor plants. In addition, the DCE/SP has attributed for 6,508 arrests and the seizure in excess of 32 million dollars of cultivator assets. The program also removed 10,439 weapons from cannabis cultivators.
The success of the DCE/SP is directly attributed to the decision of the participating agencies to share intelligence, technology and manpower. In many areas of the U.S., cultivators have been forced to abandon large outdoor cannabis plots in favor of smaller, better concealed illicit gardens.
http://www.justice.gov/dea/ops/cannabis.shtml
No worries though in regards to our differing opinions, as I live in prehistoric Alabama, and am not a Toker....the only reason I care is because I'm old fashion, and still cling to the idea that Americans should be the freest people on earth, even though we all know that's bullshit. Locking up almost a million people a yr. alone for marijuana just reminds me how much of a pipe dream American freedom really is.
i believe someone already mentioned that clandestine grows are damaging to property that is both public and private. the growers don't always foot their own bills, stealing electricity from neighbors, stealing water from public utilities and lacing public land with pesticides. surely if marijuana were legal, none of this would be an issue. it is however not yet fully legal.
i am dispassionate about marijuana legalization. i don't think it's a great thing, but if it happens it happens. however, i don't see the world changing very much after its legalization either. the legalization of marijuana doesn't fundamentally change any of the humans that are involved in its production, transportation and consumption. those people will remain the same. the criminal ones will find new enterprises. the more law abiding ones will carry on. as such i don't see the law enforcement landscape changing too much either.
it's not as if anyone can make an argument for meth, heroin and crack being victimless substances. so many children are the victims of abusers.
if people in this thread are willing to say the food stamps are for the kids, the the abolition of meth, heroine and cocaine should be for the kids too.
In a perfect world, yes. But this isn't a perfect world and people that shouldn't be having children, have children, and its not the children's fault.
It's never the childrens fault, but it also isn't my fault so why should I have to pay for their children?
Im a huge supporter of the food stamp program.
People make good points ("its not my fault they are having kids when they shouldnt") but it is not the childs fault, and they should not have to suffer malnutrition. Food stamps amount to something near 200$ per person per month (in my state). That is chump change. If we restructured welfare, disability and unemployment the savings could EASILY cover food stamps.
You can only buy food with them. Of course people could sell them for cash but in my state its an EBT(debit) card not actual stamps. The card has a name on it, and it should be required to check/match with a photo id. This would solve all those issues.
If you think 200$ worth of extra food credit per month is an incentive to have a kid, your insane. Obviously welfare is where the real money is made, and it is what encourages people to have kids.
Then YOU should support them. There is not one single GOOD REASON why I should have to. And just because welfare is an even greater theft of my money doesn't make food stamps any better.
DocHolliday01
07-08-13, 06:16
How anyone thinks that a one standard fits all approach works when dealing with both a simple possession of marijuana conviction, as well as a rape of a minor/murder conviction is beyond archaic....it's just plain idiotic to the nth degree imho.
Generally speaking, people who support marijuana prohibition have absolutely no clue about the real world statics, and effects that it actually has. The last thing in the world an anti marijuana believer is gonna do is quote studies, or official statics, given one can't maintain that level of blissful ignorance once they actually study the topic at hand.
Q: How many people are arrested each year for marijuana offenses?
A: According to the FBI, there were over 1.7 million arrests for drug violations in the United States in 2008. Over 750,000 of these arrests were for simple possession (i.e., not selling, growing, or distributing) of marijuana, and an additional 93,000 were for selling or trafficking marijuana. These numbers reflect the number of arrests reported, not the number of individuals arrested – hence, the same people may have been arrested multiple times in the course of the same reporting year. Thus, it is impossible to know how many individuals are arrested for simple possession of marijuana each year. Additionally, arrest data does not distinguish between actual arrests and the issuing of citations or tickets, so it is difficult to know how many of these arrests involved taking a person into physical custody or placing them in jail.
Q: How long, on average, is the sentence for a federal marijuana offense?
A: The average sentence for a federal marijuana crime is just over three years (36.2 months). This average sentence is significantly shorter than the average federal prison sentences for offenses involving any other type of drug.
Source for above info:
FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION, CRIME IN THE UNITED
STATES 2008, ARRESTS, available at http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008 /arrests/index.html (last visited Aug. 17, 2010).
http://tokesignals.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/AnnualMarijuanaArrestsInUS.png
Source: NORML
Trident, You realize "Federal Marijuana Offenses" are not simple possession offenses right? Generally speaking Fed level stuff is your higher level felonies, not always but it is pretty rare for the feds to **** with simple possession shit.
And just because welfare is an even greater theft of my money doesn't make food stamps any better.
Again I will point out (and sing it from the highest mountain top), the greatest theft of public funds occurs in govt contracting within the DoD and Intelligence Agencies. Contractors are getting rich off of the backs of working families. I would much rather see some lowlife from the hood get a public check than see billion dollar contract awarded for complete nonsense.
Help me understand the logic here, $200 of waste, fraud and abuse gets everyone's panties in a bunch but there is no such outrage for $1,000,000,000 of waste, fraud and abuse?
Again I will point out (and sing it from the highest mountain top), the greatest theft of public funds occurs in govt contracting within the DoD and Intelligence Agencies. Contractors are getting rich off of the backs of working families. I would much rather see some lowlife from the hood get a public check than see billion dollar contract awarded for complete nonsense.
Help me understand the logic here, $200 of waste, fraud and abuse gets everyone's panties in a bunch but there is no such outrage for $1,000,000,000 of waste, fraud and abuse?
The larger the entity the larger the payout...
ScatmanCrothers
07-08-13, 08:06
Help me understand the logic here, $200 of waste, fraud and abuse gets everyone's panties in a bunch but there is no such outrage for $1,000,000,000 of waste, fraud and abuse?
200 bucks, total? That seems a little low... especially compared to a trillion coming from all other govt programs/entities combined of which there should be (and is) outrage from their waste, fraud and abuse. They just don't happen to be the topic of conversation in this instance.
Again I will point out (and sing it from the highest mountain top), the greatest theft of public funds occurs in govt contracting within the DoD and Intelligence Agencies. Contractors are getting rich off of the backs of working families. I would much rather see some lowlife from the hood get a public check than see billion dollar contract awarded for complete nonsense.
Help me understand the logic here, $200 of waste, fraud and abuse gets everyone's panties in a bunch but there is no such outrage for $1,000,000,000 of waste, fraud and abuse?
What makes you think nobody has a problem with that either?
Again I will point out (and sing it from the highest mountain top), the greatest theft of public funds occurs in govt contracting within the DoD and Intelligence Agencies. Contractors are getting rich off of the backs of working families. I would much rather see some lowlife from the hood get a public check than see billion dollar contract awarded for complete nonsense.
Help me understand the logic here, $200 of waste, fraud and abuse gets everyone's panties in a bunch but there is no such outrage for $1,000,000,000 of waste, fraud and abuse?
Think this through a little. How many $200's worth af fraud does it take to get to $1,000,000,000? There is a lot more of them so they are more readily seen but let us use the analogy of carrying your gear. Ounces equal pounds and pounds equal pain. It does not really matter about how or how much but it is still theft from the tax payers that are getting the short end of the stick any way you look at it.
Dan
So where do we get the assumption that the children will suffer?? Don't we have a system called CPS that takes abused and or neglected children away from asshole parents and puts them into foster care or adopts them out??
Why incentivize having more neglected children. These idiots pumping out kids left and right are NOT good parents. If they were they wouldn't have had kids they couldn't take care of in the first place. Dont for a second believe that because we give out EBT cards that those kids don't suffer. They may not be hungry, but the suffer far more damage at the hands of piss poor parents. IMO these free stuff programs that reward poor decision making do more harm than good. They trap these poor kids with parents that are useless and generate a new generation of dependent beings with less moral upbringing than the previous one. On a grander scheme they are bad for society as they create generations of neglected and abused children with no moral compass who are completely dependent on the government.
But then who is easier to control and dominate? The HS drop out who can barely read and is dependent on the government to stay alive or the guy who makes a living and can think for himself??
As for the whole government waste thing. Yes wherever there is government there is waste. Be it your local HOA all the way to 1600. Fact of life. And yes, there are much bigger near term financial hitters out there. However, IMO there really aren't that many out there that do as much societal harm than the free shit army recruitment programs.
So where do we get the assumption that the children will suffer?? Don't we have a system called CPS that takes abused and or neglected children away from asshole parents and puts them into foster care or adopts them out??
The assumption comes from trying to guilt non responsible parties into accepting some responsibility for the responsible parties who have no sense of responsibility.
And quite honestly, if the parents are convicted drug offenders the children are likely going to suffer no matter what anyone does.
The assumption comes from trying to guilt non responsible parties into accepting some responsibility for the responsible parties who have no sense of responsibility.
And quite honestly, if the parents are convicted drug offenders the children are likely going to suffer no matter what anyone does.
Yeah I know, IMO if people actually waned to save those children from being doomed to a life of abuse and neglect at the hands of parent who have no idea how to raise them they would take them away from the mothers immediately after birth and adopt them out before the the child has any memory of the mother.
However, that is a other slippery slope that I'm not sure our government needs a hand in pushing us over. As such I'd be content with saving the tax payers some money and cutting funding for all free shit programs.
Yeah I know, IMO if people actually waned to save those children from being doomed to a life of abuse and neglect at the hands of parent who have no idea how to raise them they would take them away from the mothers immediately after birth and adopt them out before the the child has any memory of the mother.
However, that is a other slippery slope that I'm not sure our government needs a hand in pushing us over. As such I'd be content with saving the tax payers some money and cutting funding for all free shit programs.
Basically that's it. The world isn't fair and it never was. I was luckier than some and not as lucky as others. If people really want "equality" they need to remove the "I'm a complete **** up" safety nets.
I'm not even completely opposed to some forms of "assistance." It can be a hard start if you don't have a complete support system. I remember how hard it was when I got out on my own. If my tax dollars went to help somebody who was really trying get going "temporarily" I'd complain a lot less.
I still have a problem with the involuntary redistribution of wealth (especially since I'm not wealthy enough to have my money "redistributed"), but I'd feel better if it was just "help" and not a "forever" handout at my expense.
Agree on the whole time limit thing. IMO all forms of assistance should be based on input. If you have never contributed don't expect to get anything back. If you've worked for 30 years and fall on hard times, even if its of your own doing, you should have access to the safety net you invested in.
Doesnt address those who are starting their lives, but IMO that is what families are for.
I still have a problem with the involuntary redistribution of wealth (especially since I'm not wealthy enough to have my money "redistributed"), but I'd feel better if it was just "help" and not a "forever" handout at my expense.
Right on, should be a safety net, not a hammock.
Why not?
They want everyone on welfare or some sort of "Government assistance".....that includes dopers too.
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