Issue with dinged brass

[platoonDaddy]

Gen 2 Glock 21 with LoneWolf .460 Rowland Barrel. Using Buffalo Bore ammo, the 1st 10 rounds all ended up with a ding (the 10th brass must have moved prior to the following picture). The 1st seven rounds, I was using ISM 24lb recoil spring (in the video he stated 22lb, but it is 24lb spring), the last three OEM 17lb spring all with the same results.


http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad176/slickville/BuffaloBore_zps7f615fe1.jpg (http://s933.photobucket.com/user/slickville/media/BuffaloBore_zps7f615fe1.jpg.html)

Shipped barrel back to LoneWolf and last night received the following video from them.

Any recommendations on how I should proceed?

Video from the LoneWolf armorer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g6QT4Zu6Go

[Coal Dragger]

Any chance of obtaining a heavier spring? Your slide velocity might still be really high causing the cases to hit the ejector hard enough to spin them back into the ejection port.

I've played with .460 Rowland data in .45ACP brass, and it is a pretty energetic little round even in an all steel 5 shot revolver so I can imagine how hard it would be running the slide.

[platoonDaddy]

Any chance of obtaining a heavier spring? Your slide velocity might still be really high causing the cases to hit the ejector hard enough to spin them back into the ejection port.

I've played with .460 Rowland data in .45ACP brass, and it is a pretty energetic little round even in an all steel 5 shot revolver so I can imagine how hard it would be running the slide.

Very good question. When I purchased the barrel, LoneWolf recommended a 24lb spring. Therefore I purchased from them an assembled RSA, the 24lb spring was from ISMI. Just checked their web site, 24lb from ISMI & Wolff is the heaviest.

[Coal Dragger]

Not that it is any consolation, but that brass isn't damaged so much it couldn't be resized and reloaded.

Other issues might be that the ejector is not really designed to handle the kind of slide velocity that is generated (even with a heavier spring), and the geometry is all wrong for kicking the brass out at that speed.

You might play with some reloads and reduce the power level to see if it clears up the issue. Of course that defeats the purpose of running a .460 Rowland.

I'm not a Glock fan (nothing against them just never developed any affection for them), so I don't know about availability of such things; but is it possible to obtain a long slide and long barrel for the G21? The extra mass of a longer slide could very well slow down cycling and clear up the issue.

I am assuming that you have never had chewed up dinged brass running your normal .45ACP barrel and spring.

[platoonDaddy]

Coal Dragger
but is it possible to obtain a long slide and long barrel for the G21? The extra mass of a longer slide could very well slow down cycling and clear up the issue.

I am assuming that you have never had chewed up dinged brass running your normal .45ACP barrel and spring.


They have a ported version, that would be longer. Using .45's & ISM 24lb didn't ding the brass.

I have the following two questions for the armorer:

1. Would be interested in the results of using Buffalo Bore ammo with the ported barrel.

2. Would also like to see the results of testing a recoil buffer, that is installed between the recoil spring and the slide.

[Coal Dragger]

If they offer a non ported solid slide that would work better. More mass may equal better function here. All the porting will do for you is keep the muzzle down, and will probably have little affect on thrust the breech face and slide are getting.

[platoonDaddy]

If they offer a non ported solid slide that would work better. More mass may equal better function here. All the porting will do for you is keep the muzzle down, and will probably have little affect on thrust the breech face and slide are getting.

To my knowledge; LoneWolf & Rowland only offer a barrel chambered for the .460 Roland.

[Coal Dragger]

Well if you can reload the brass (if you reload) and nothing else is occurring I'd shoot it and enjoy it.

[Coal Dragger]

To my knowledge; LoneWolf & Rowland only offer a barrel chambered for the .460 Roland.

You got me researching things and it seems that they do offer long slides for the G21. Your choice of an actual long slide for a 6.02" bbl, or a "tactical" length for a 5.12" bbl.

http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=80619&CAT=3171

http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=799616&CAT=3171

The long slide is a few ounces heavier than a standard G21 slide, and that might help. Plus you can enjoy a longer sight radius. Downside is all the money you'll spend.

[platoonDaddy]

You got me researching things and it seems that they do offer long slides for the G21. Your choice of an actual long slide for a 6.02" bbl, or a "tactical" length for a 5.12" bbl.

http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=80619&CAT=3171

http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=799616&CAT=3171

The long slide is a few ounces heavier than a standard G21 slide, and that might help. Plus you can enjoy a longer sight radius. Downside is all the money you'll spend.

LOL on all the money I will spend. :)

Great research and thank you. For the cost of the longer slides, believe I will follow you earlier recommendation " if nothing else is occurring I'd shoot it and enjoy it "

[Coal Dragger]

That's what I would do too.

[platoonDaddy]

That's what I would do too.

AMEN!

Just had to add this: during their R&D cycle, one would have surely believed they tested their barrel with Buffalo Bore Ammo.

All very strange.

[1_click_off]

Maybe try another 24lbs spring. It is possible yours is out of spec.

[Wildcat]

Slide velocity is pretty high when it hits the ejector so I wonder if a shorter ejector might be a fair thing to consider. You'd have to make one from a stock part.

A spare trigger housing is cheap. The ejector on the spare could be pared down and countoured if necessary.

[platoonDaddy]

From Lonewolf:

1. I called and spoke with Allen at Sprinco USA (http://www.sprinco.com/contact.html). I explained the situation and he agrees that the slide speed is causing the issue. He has the ability to offer different spring weights on his duel stage recoil system. If you plan to reload the spent cartridges, the slide speed will need to slow down so the brass doesn't get dinged. If you do not plan on reloading, this is only happening during ejection of the spent cartridge and is not an issue for function.

2. An extended two port barrel will give you the same slide speed because the ports are external. The barrel length is still the same with two ports on the out side. The two port barrel will only help with muzzle rise. The only way to change the slide speed with a barrel is to use internal porting (less velocity and foot pounds of energy) or a threaded barrel with comp. The threaded/comp barrel will drive the gun forward during fire allowing the recoil spring to function more properly.

3. LWD's 21TSolid and 21LSolid would be ideal because the slides have more weight. They have not been tested with Buffalo Bore 255gr 460 Rowland ammo here.

4. I wanted to make sure the chamber area did not have any manufacture defects causing the issue. After lightly polishing the inside chamber, it was inspected under magnification and tested with "GO" and "NO GO" gauges. The chamber was in spec.

LWD can not control ammunition manufactures that decide to offer 460 Rowland. The 24lb recoil spring has proved to work with most 460 Rowland ammunition. If a heavier grain projectile or hotter round is decided to be used then a different barrel configuration and/or guide rod/recoil spring must be considered.

If you decide to use the 255gr Buffalo Bore ammunition, I would like to offer you our Threaded 460 Rowland barrel and Comp. I feel this would be the best fix.