View Full Version : Your thoughts? (SIG M400 MOE)
jerparker1
07-06-13, 08:06
I've been wanting an AR for a while. My local WM has a Sig M400 MOE version for $1,127. Is this a good price? Is it too high? Thanks in advance
http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/sigm400-enhanced.aspx
.46caliber
07-06-13, 08:12
Ugh...Doubletap
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.46caliber
07-06-13, 08:12
I paid less than $900 for mine in November. For that money you can get a Colt.
I like my Sig, but if I was gonna spend $1100 I'd be buying one built by a manufacturer with a longer AR track record.
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Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
The price is OK for that rifle, but you can buy a better rifle for less money (Colt 6920)
walkin' trails
07-06-13, 08:16
I'm not familiar with that model, but I have noted that AR prices are coming down and the supply of them seems to be going up. Check what the prices were before the frenzy began (use the day before the 2012 elections as a base line), and compare to now. I'd say that prices are still mostly elevated - probably $200 more than pre-frenzy prices on average from respectable retailers, but that may also depend on where you live. If you're buying this gun as a shooter that you'll hang onto for a long time with no thoughts of selling it for a profit and just want it now, then you have to do what you have to do. If you don't have to have one right now, watch the market. That's not to say that something else might not happen to cause the fires to flare, but the prices may also drop back to where they were before in a few more months.
You can go to Walmart and have a Colt for $1099.
SilverBullet432
07-06-13, 08:19
thats a lil steep OP, last black friday walmart had those for $899, if your going to drop 1k plus, look into a 6920, i would say get a Daniel Defense, but that would put you in the 1.5k club. a 6920 would be the better option (budget wise) , unless you find an m400 for 900ish :)
Believe it or not, saw one at a shop for $1800. :eek:
Same shop had DPMS 30 rounders for $30 and Glock 17 mags for $44. Yeah, great idea when opening a new shop. I predict a short lifespan.
SilverBullet432
07-06-13, 08:27
Believe it or not, saw one at a shop for $1800. :eek:
Same shop had DPMS 30 rounders for $30 and Glock 17 mags for $44. Yeah, great idea when opening a new shop. I predict a short lifespan.
thats nothing. local gun show in february had them for $2500.. and they sold!! hope the OP makes an informed decision!
I'll echo the oft-given advice: in that price range, go for Colt or BCM if you can find it in stock.
Voodoo_Man
07-06-13, 10:00
Pass.
Do yourself a favor and stick to AR's that have proven track records.
American2013
07-06-13, 10:12
I've been wanting an AR for a while. My local WM has a Sig M400 MOE version for $1,127. Is this a good price? Is it too high? Thanks in advance
http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/sigm400-enhanced.aspx
I have a M400, the BCG is shabby and I finally got mine working perfect after 300 dollars more and headaches due to gas leak in the bolt carrier group which was hard to figure out. Or, better yet, buy a BCM lower and a upper or Spikes or DD. I am making my own from now on!:suicide2:
jerparker1
07-06-13, 23:26
I have a M400, the BCG is shabby and I finally got mine working perfect after 300 dollars more and headaches due to gas leak in the bolt carrier group which was hard to figure out. Or, better yet, buy a BCM lower and a upper or Spikes or DD. I am making my own from now on!:suicide2:
Shouldn't that have been covered under the warranty?
ennbeegunny15
07-06-13, 23:58
Op I'm gonna do you a solid and leave with this link. It would behoove you to read and search before you ask ?s.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7355
texasgunhand
07-07-13, 00:01
I have one and like it, all reviews ive read, others have liked them. This is a colt, dd, bcm board. See the link below, Its an unboxing of a M-400, and has nice pics the OP did a lot of work doing it, very nice..
If you wait you will be able to get a colt for that price.There starting to drop. My local gunstore has plenty of m-4s {colt, windhams,etc} in stock ,now nobodys buying them.. But any talk of AW or extended mag. bans will drive it back up again over night. Even though ive read on this board of people with bushmasters with 10,000 rnds through them they are disliked here.
And i guess iam the only one who has been treated very well with sigs cust.service? But they have done everything asked of them including shipping me a free magpul moe stock and letting me keep the org. M-4 stock. One guy here had a problem with one, he sent it off and it was back on his door step in 9 days, thats not bad. And yes the leaky gas key would have been covered under the warranty. I think they will prove themselves, but there so new to the market no one has shot one enough to see. Time will tell.
vicious_cb
07-07-13, 01:06
I have one and like it, all reviews ive read, others have liked them. This is a colt, dd, bcm board. See the link below, Its an unboxing of a M-400, and has nice pics the OP did a lot of work doing it, very nice..
If you wait you will be able to get a colt for that price.There starting to drop. My local gunstore has plenty of m-4s {colt, windhams,etc} in stock ,now nobodys buying them.. But any talk of AW or extended mag. bans will drive it back up again over night. Even though ive read on this board of people with bushmasters with 10,000 rnds through them they are disliked here.
And i guess iam the only one who has been treated very well with sigs cust.service? But they have done everything asked of them including shipping me a free magpul moe stock and letting me keep the org. M-4 stock. One guy here had a problem with one, he sent it off and it was back on his door step in 9 days, thats not bad. And yes the leaky gas key would have been covered under the warranty. I think they will prove themselves, but there so new to the market no one has shot one enough to see. Time will tell.
Actually this a non shit quality hobby grade AR board. Get your facts straight.
texasgunhand
07-07-13, 01:14
As you can tell by vicious post this is the kind flame you will get from trying to answer your post in an honest light...profane and all... you would think any one would know that colt dd or bcm arent hobby grade.
You will get a lot of answers from people that dont even own one,or never even shot one. Ive seen rock rivers with thousands of rounds through them but their consd. hobby grade. Ive been driving chevys for 25 years but they also make fords and dodges. What ever you buy the parts are everywere out there if something breaks...Read the be an informed buyer section here. It will answer alot of things for you as per what to look for in a M-4....
For me, $1150 is Colt money, not SIG money.
As you can tell by vicious post this is the kind flame you will get from trying to answer your post in an honest light...profane and all... you would think any one would know that colt dd or bcm arent hobby grade.
You will get a lot of answers from people that dont even own one,or never even shot one. Ive seen rock rivers with thousands of rounds through them but their consd. hobby grade. Ive been driving chevys for 25 years but they also make fords and dodges. What ever you buy the parts are everywere out there if something breaks...Read the be an informed buyer section here. It will answer alot of things for you as per what to look for in a M-4....
You're new around here, aren't you? There are well respected knowledgeable folks on this board who have first hand experience with the failure rate of certain brands and not with just one or two samples. In one case in particular, a member had to deal with a high failure rate out of a shipment of roughly one hundred rifles.
I have had a chance to sample a wide variety of firearms in my life and my own experiences. All companies have had problems with quality control and customer service. Decades ago, I came to the realization that there are brands that simply aren't worth taking a risk on. There are firearms that aren't worth the effort bringing the occasional problem child up to speed. I wouldn't give the time of day to Rossi or Taurus, just to name a couple. There are those who would argue with me. So be it. I will not waste another dollar or any more of my time on either one. Cheap brands are not worth the frustration. It's even worse when a cheap brand offers a product for the same price or more. It boggles the mind further when the cheap brand takes the same firearm, dresses it up with cheap features and demands a premium price!
In all seriousness, what is a better value? A Windham Weaponry AR15 MPC M4 A3 5.56/223 16" W/Carry Handle, 30 Rnd Mag for $1049.99? (Impact Guns)
https://www.impactguns.com/data/default/images/catalog/535/windham_mpc_a.jpg
Or a Colt 6920 for $1155? (G&R Tactical)
http://www.gandrtactical.com/PDGImages/LE6920_NP1.jpg
Which is a better value here- Bean Firearms Co. Semi-Automatic, Piston Driven, Billet Machined AR15, 16" for $1999.99? (Impact Guns)
https://www.impactguns.com/data/default/images/catalog/535/bean-ARA316.jpg
Or a BCM RECCE 14.5 MOD 0 FDE for $1392.00? (G&R Tactical)
http://www.gandrtactical.com/PDGImages/MID16_FDE.jpg
jerparker1, I think you could do better than the Sig M400 MOE for $1127
-and that is an answer given in an honest light
I have a colt and I don't really ever shoot it for three reasons. One is the Sig M400 is more robust feeling two it shoots tighter groups with the ammo I have stockpiled and three I hope the next time people go crazy some Kool-Aide drinking fan boy will get his wiener all hard and give me big money for it and since it already had blemishes from the factory I don't want to make it look any worse Real Talk!
I have a colt and I don't really ever shoot it for three reasons. One is the Sig M400 is more robust feeling two it shoots tighter groups with the ammo I have stockpiled and three I hope the next time people go crazy some Kool-Aide drinking fan boy will get his wiener all hard and give me big money for it and since it already had blemishes from the factory I don't want to make it look any worse Real Talk!
:confused:
Now that didn't take long for this thread to go to where most of this type of brand opinion questions topics go....
downhill fast!
...and then closed
I have learned from here and other boards....
Read more, post less! :smile:
Colt, BCM or DD FWIW
This. All day.
I have the Sig m400 and a Colt 6920. Love them both, and both perform flawlessly. The Sig m400 is a great choice and you will not regret it, if you choose to buy one. You have to filter through all the brand loyal posters and haters, and take their comments with a grain of salt.
jerparker1
07-07-13, 12:12
Now that didn't take long for this thread to go to where most of this type of brand opinion questions topics go....
downhill fast!
...and then closed
I have learned from here and other boards....
Read more, post less! :smile:
For the record, this was not a "which brand of rifle is better" thread. My original question asked if the price listed was too high for a Sig. I never once mentioned Colt. I understand there will be 100 different opinions as to which brand of rifle is better. I appreciate everyone taking the time to respond and look forward to reading more opinions.
For the record, this was not a "which brand of rifle is better" thread. My original question asked if the price listed was too high for a Sig. I never once mentioned Colt. I understand there will be 100 different opinions as to which brand of rifle is better. I appreciate everyone taking the time to respond and look forward to reading more opinions.
Well no its not a bad price I paid 1100 plus tax for mine but it is the M400 enhanced not the regular one.
To be honest its not really a what's better in general. I think most are trying to show you there are much better options for the price. Many have been in your shoes and realized their first purchase wasn't <or the rifle they were looking at isnt>as great as they realized. Then kick themsves in the but when they could have bought a colt or BCM for a bit more, the same, or even less.
Names like BCM, Colt, Daniel Defense, etc aren't thrown around here lightly. They've been put through their paces and tested by good guys in the real world. For what its worth, take a look over at BCM for their Colt and BCM offerings. You WILL be happy, with quality, reliability, and price.
For the record, this was not a "which brand of rifle is better" thread. My original question asked if the price listed was too high for a Sig. I never once mentioned Colt. I understand there will be 100 different opinions as to which brand of rifle is better. I appreciate everyone taking the time to respond and look forward to reading more opinions.
jerparker1
07-07-13, 13:47
Well no its not a bad price I paid 1100 plus tax for mine but it is the M400 enhanced not the regular one.
I believe the MOE version is the enhanced version?
Fuzzy-Reticle
07-07-13, 15:07
I owned a SIGM400. It was a fine rifle. I would not put it in the same class as a BCM, COLT, DD or Noveske. It was accurate enough and ran fine for me for the few thousand or so rounds I ran through mine. IMHO it is better than most of the commercial type AR rifles available in terms of quality and overall fit and finish and function. I felt it was definitely a step or three above a RRA or Bushmaster.
The SIGM400 would serve most users just fine for recreational type shooting and probably the occasional carbine course and in the home defense role.
Current AR pricing is now so crazy that once less expensive commercial quality rifles are priced nearly the same as the mil spec + crowd. As a consumer why would anyone pay the same price or nearly the same price for a lesser product? Sure when PSA rifles where $650 why not get a couple. I did. Same with the M400. I bought mine on impulse for about $800 back about a year or so ago. I wanted to give it a try and knew that I would not have it forever. I planned on playing with it for a while and eventually sell it. I had my fun and sold it. I would not buy the M400 today when I can get a COLT 6920 for nearly the same price.
I owned a SIGM400. It was a fine rifle. I would not put it in the same class as a BCM, COLT, DD or Noveske. It was accurate enough and ran fine for me for the few thousand or so rounds I ran through mine. IMHO it is better than most of the commercial type AR rifles available in terms of quality and overall fit and finish and function. I felt it was definitely a step or three above a RRA or Bushmaster.
The SIGM400 would serve most users just fine for recreational type shooting and probably the occasional carbine course and in the home defense role.
Current AR pricing is now so crazy that once less expensive commercial quality rifles are priced nearly the same as the mil spec + crowd. As a consumer why would anyone pay the same price or nearly the same price for a lesser product? Sure when PSA rifles where $650 why not get a couple. I did. Same with the M400. I bought mine on impulse for about $800 back about a year or so ago. I wanted to give it a try and knew that I would not have it forever. I planned on playing with it for a while and eventually sell it. I had my fun and sold it. I would not buy the M400 today when I can get a COLT 6920 for nearly the same price.
I must ask what made the Colt better than the M400? The reciever of the M400 is beefier than the colt M400 has ambi magazine release Colt does not M400 has a nylon screw in the lower that allows you to take up slack between the upper and lower Colt does not plus the M400 also has a pin in the barrel extension that keeps support on the extractor when firing Colt does not. So other than the prancing pony what made the Colt Better than the Sig Sauer?
Fuzzy-Reticle
07-07-13, 15:50
Better? This has been beat to death again and again and a search would serve you best but for the sake of argument:
- Colt has a proven track record for quality and reliability.
-Colt owns the technical package for the rifle
-Colt has better inspection and quality control. Could never find what SIG does for their QC and inspection. Do they do batch inspection or is each rifle inspected.
-Colt uses mil spec materials in the construction of their rifles. I could never determine with any certainty what SIG uses.
-The extractor support button is a nice touch but I have seen pictures here and on other forums where they have come loose and caused stoppages.
-I am a lefty and I appreciated the ambi mag release. IF it went tits up where on gods green earth am I going to get parts for it? SIG? That will suck as it is unique to SIG and no LGS will have parts. Since SIG is not the most customer friendly when it comes to selling guys like you and me OEM replacement parts it means sending it to them.
-Play between uppers and lowers is meaningless in a fighting carbine. Just one more thing to go wrong, get lost or come loose. I appreciated it but it is not needed.
Does all this add up to a better rifle? In my mind I still think the Colt M4 6920 is a better rifle than a SIGM400 for the same money.
Grand58742
07-07-13, 15:54
I must ask what made the Colt better than the M400?
Besides the fact that Colt has been producing AR variants for 50 years and might have learned a thing or two about what makes them run which is incorporated into the TDP?
The reciever of the M400 is beefier than the colt
And exactly how many Colt receivers have you seen fail in other than kaboom situations due to being "too thin?"
M400 has ambi magazine release Colt does not
Personal preference. I actually don't like ambi controls, others do. That's a subjective answer.
M400 has a nylon screw in the lower that allows you to take up slack between the upper and lower Colt does not
Which "slop" between the upper and lower has not been shown or proven to degrade accuracy in traditional shooting distances. Other than a "wow, that's neat" factor, that screw serves no purpose in helping that weapon run better.
plus the M400 also has a pin in the barrel extension that keeps support on the extractor when firing Colt does not.
And this helps by doing...what exactly?
So other than the prancing pony what made the Colt Better than the Sig Sauer?
At normal prices? $1050 for a Colt 6920 and $800 for a Sig? Depending on what you use it for, the Sig might be a better deal. If you are shooting three or four times a year at Mountain Dew bottles and random dirt clods, and maybe as Fuzzy-Reticle stated a class or two, the Sig might be the best option. If you want a hard use carbine...the Sig has yet to prove itself and is still relatively new so you go with a proven name built on 50 years of refinement and lessons learned.
Now at the same price? $1150 vs $1150. Go with a name that's got a proven track record in 50 years of combat in some of the most austere conditions on the planet. How many wars has the Sig M400 participated in? How many hard use classes has it been put through and thoroughly reviewed? Has anyone taken it to the limits trying to see what will break? For the same price, the Colt is a known winner and why would you take a chance on something that may or may not hold up?
And for the record, I don't own any Colt products but do own a lot of weapons with the Sig roll mark so I should be biased towards the M400, but you can see I'm not.
vicious_cb
07-07-13, 16:27
I must ask what made the Colt better than the M400? The reciever of the M400 is beefier than the colt M400 has ambi magazine release Colt does not M400 has a nylon screw in the lower that allows you to take up slack between the upper and lower Colt does not plus the M400 also has a pin in the barrel extension that keeps support on the extractor when firing Colt does not. So other than the prancing pony what made the Colt Better than the Sig Sauer?
Here's a hint, it has to do with using the proper materials, doing the proper testing, and having the right dimensions. Not whether or not the it has a tightening grip screw. :rolleyes:
Enough. Stop behaving like a junior high drama student or the next time you do you'll get an infraction and a time out. One mod already deleted one of your posts, and you didn't get the hint. Get the hint this time. No more warnings.
- SeriousStudent
Grand58742
07-07-13, 18:24
The Colt Kool-Aide drinkers make me want to sell every colt AR I have just so I am not associated with this group of purse swingers!
I'll give you $50 for them right now and even toss in a set of ice cube trays and free coffee mug to seal the deal.
Deal?
Tonyparson
07-07-13, 18:25
The whole colt has the TDP argument is crap. This is a rifle we are talking about here not the space shuttle there is nothing in the TDP that can not be found out by doing a lil reverse engineering and as far as the Sig, Bushy, DPMS not being "battle proven" if you really think about it they have been because the AR15 is a design not a brand! This is not Ford vs Chevy were you are talking about completely different engineering and manufacturing we are talking about rifles that you could disassemble 5 from different manufacturers throw the parts in a box shake it up and they will all fit together. Am I saying Colt is not a quality product NO but it is not the end all be all it is a gun that is bought based on something meeting a spec for the lowest price "Mil-Spec". The guys defending the other "Hobby Grade" AR's are not the close minded ones it is the Colt fanboys that do not get it! Sig is a Mil-Spec rifle you can call CS and ask so are many other guns and some even exceed the spec ( I know thats a hard concept to wrap small minds around) The Colt Kool-Aide drinkers make me want to sell every colt AR I have just so I am not associated with this group of purse swingers!
I use to think the same way you do. I use to think all AR's were the same, there's one factory making the parts and then sends them to different company's that put the AR's together, then stamp their name on them. Well now I know better. After buying 2 cheap AR's and one decent AR, comparing them to my friends Colt and BCM, I know now I was totally wrong. I now know you get what you pay for. That's why I sold all my AR's and bought a BCM.
Uniquesnd, welcome to M4C. You're free to sell whatever you'd like for whatever reason you'd like. Your argument has been discussed here numerous times along with the reasons why many people prefer the Colt over other brands. You're free to do some looking around here to find out those reasons, if you so wish. No one here owes it to you to try to change your mind. While your at it, it may behoove you to read this post: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=857313
The whole colt has the TDP argument is crap. This is a rifle we are talking about here not the space shuttle there is nothing in the TDP that can not be found out by doing a lil reverse engineering and as far as the Sig, Bushy, DPMS not being "battle proven" if you really think about it they have been because the AR15 is a design not a brand! This is not Ford vs Chevy were you are talking about completely different engineering and manufacturing we are talking about rifles that you could disassemble 5 from different manufacturers throw the parts in a box shake it up and they will all fit together. Am I saying Colt is not a quality product NO but it is not the end all be all it is a gun that is bought based on something meeting a spec for the lowest price "Mil-Spec". The guys defending the other "Hobby Grade" AR's are not the close minded ones it is the Colt fanboys that do not get it! Sig is a Mil-Spec rifle you can call CS and ask so are many other guns and some even exceed the spec ( I know thats a hard concept to wrap small minds around) The Colt Kool-Aide drinkers make me want to sell every colt AR I have just so I am not associated with this group of purse swingers!
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I use to think the same way you do. I use to thing all AR's are the same, there's one factory making the parts and then sends them to different company's that put the AR's together and then stamp their name on them. Well now I know better. After buying 2 cheap AR's and one decent AR and comparing them to my friends Colt and BCM I know know I was totally wrong. I now know you get what you pay for. That's why I sold all my AR's and bought a BCM.
Thank you ryhno12 I read that post and found it very informative. Tony parson Actually their are only a few people doing the forgings for all of the AR makers that are out there, now the machining is usually done in house but that is not always the case either. I understand the difference in build quality from one AR maker to another as I own a few factory built AR's as well as a bunch I have built myself I own a bushy, a newer colt LE6920, a Sig Sauer M400 enhaned as well as a DPMS even had a Colt sp1 Rifle for 6 years which I just sold this year because some Guy just had to have it and offered me 2500$ It was only an 82 model so I let it go. I am eat up with the BRD (ask the wife) and own AR pistols also a 5.56 and a 7.62X39 that I am in the middle of building. I have used forged lowers and some of the finest billet lowers you can buy ( Seekins SP223) in my builds so I have encountered all levels of quality through out my sickness. The thing is if the SHTF the rifle closest to me that is ready to rock and roll will be my go to gun then once the current situation is stable I will then precede to go through my safe and Hand pick the one to take with me or use. My biggest Problem with the Colt fanboys is the fact they make it seem like the Colt is some Super AR that will never fail you and shoots laser guided rounds but this is not the case the gun that fits your budget is the rifle for you and the best rifle in the world is crap in the hands of someone with poor marksmanship. The advice in these type of threads should be along the lines of "whatever rifle fits your budget and allows you to have enough left over cash to buy a few thousand rounds of ammo and a membership to your local range". Read the story of Simo Häyhä and it will make you understand that a supposed crap gun is deadly in the hands of a skilled marksman!
.46caliber
07-07-13, 19:13
Well no its not a bad price I paid 1100 plus tax for mine but it is the M400 enhanced not the regular one.
How much does a 6920 go for in your area? My M400E was stickered at $867, granted on sale, this past November.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
How much does a 6920 go for in your area? My M400E was stickered at $867, granted on sale, this past November.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
I think the 6920 are like 1150$ or so. I have never seen the M400 enhanced go for 867$ in my area more like 899$ or so if you can find one.
ETA: Just looked on Sigs website and MSRP is 1249$ for the enhanced so 867$ is a smoking good deal for one NIB!
There are those that agree with your opinions/statements and those that don't.
You will find that most on this board do not.
Most here tend to prefer Colt over Sig, as you might have already noticed.
Why are you so emotional about this particular issue?
Sure not worth getting rash or uptight about...
The whole colt has the TDP argument is crap. This is a rifle we are talking about here not the space shuttle there is nothing in the TDP that can not be found out by doing a lil reverse engineering and as far as the Sig, Bushy, DPMS not being "battle proven" if you really think about it they have been because the AR15 is a design not a brand! This is not Ford vs Chevy were you are talking about completely different engineering and manufacturing we are talking about rifles that you could disassemble 5 from different manufacturers throw the parts in a box shake it up and they will all fit together. Am I saying Colt is not a quality product NO but it is not the end all be all it is a gun that is bought based on something meeting a spec for the lowest price "Mil-Spec". The guys defending the other "Hobby Grade" AR's are not the close minded ones it is the Colt fanboys that do not get it! Sig is a Mil-Spec rifle you can call CS and ask so are many other guns and some even exceed the spec ( I know thats a hard concept to wrap small minds around) The Colt Kool-Aide drinkers make me want to sell every colt AR I have just so I am not associated with this group of purse swingers!
SeriousStudent
07-07-13, 22:27
uniquesnd - stop with the bizarre rants and insults. If you want to discuss things, discuss them. But if you want to insult people here, you'll be gone. I cannot be more clear than that. I don't know what other sites you visit or post on, and I don't really care. But we don't act like that here.
No more warnings. Behave or go away.
uniquesnd - stop with the bizarre rants and insults. If you want to discuss things, discuss them. But if you want to insult people here, you'll be gone. I cannot be more clear than that. I don't know what other sites you visit or post on, and I don't really care. But we don't act like that here.
No more warnings. Behave or go away.
I have not made one bizarre rant or insulted anyone since the post Ryno12 mad.
I would buy a Colt 6920 instead.
Thank you ryhno12 I read that post and found it very informative. Tony parson Actually their are only a few people doing the forgings for all of the AR makers that are out there, now the machining is usually done in house but that is not always the case either. I understand the difference in build quality from one AR maker to another as I own a few factory built AR's as well as a bunch I have built myself I own a bushy, a newer colt LE6920, a Sig Sauer M400 enhaned as well as a DPMS even had a Colt sp1 Rifle for 6 years which I just sold this year because some Guy just had to have it and offered me 2500$ It was only an 82 model so I let it go. I am eat up with the BRD (ask the wife) and own AR pistols also a 5.56 and a 7.62X39 that I am in the middle of building. I have used forged lowers and some of the finest billet lowers you can buy ( Seekins SP223) in my builds so I have encountered all levels of quality through out my sickness. The thing is if the SHTF the rifle closest to me that is ready to rock and roll will be my go to gun then once the current situation is stable I will then precede to go through my safe and Hand pick the one to take with me or use. My biggest Problem with the Colt fanboys is the fact they make it seem like the Colt is some Super AR that will never fail you and shoots laser guided rounds but this is not the case the gun that fits your budget is the rifle for you and the best rifle in the world is crap in the hands of someone with poor marksmanship. The advice in these type of threads should be along the lines of "whatever rifle fits your budget and allows you to have enough left over cash to buy a few thousand rounds of ammo and a membership to your local range". Read the story of Simo Häyhä and it will make you understand that a supposed crap gun is deadly in the hands of a skilled marksman!
I'm just curious, out of all the rifles you listed have you taken any to high round counts? Like 10k+? The reason I ask is owning a gun and shooting a gun are two different animals, most people I know that tout "hobby grade" guns as being "just as good" aren't shooters, they're collectors. People here tend to recommend colt and other high end brands because they have proven themselves to be worthy of their price not by fit and finish, options, or feel, but by holding up to strenuous levels of shooting. Colt, DD, BCM, etc have consistently proven to hold up to high levels of abuse, when the hobby grade guns have a track record of failure. Does sig fall into top tier or hobby grade? Who's shot one to the point of failure? Most things I read about the m400's reliability goes something like "I shot 500 rounds through my m400 and its been flawless". I'm not saying sig AR's are crap, I'm just saying they have nowhere near the track record of colts, DD, BCM, novekse, etc, and when the price difference is only 10-15%, why bother with something with no history vs something that's proven? Seems like a no brainer to me.
I'm just curious, out of all the rifles you listed have you taken any to high round counts? Like 10k+? The reason I ask is owning a gun and shooting a gun are two different animals, most people I know that tout "hobby grade" guns as being "just as good" aren't shooters, they're collectors. People here tend to recommend colt and other high end brands because they have proven themselves to be worthy of their price not by fit and finish, options, or feel, but by holding up to strenuous levels of shooting. Colt, DD, BCM, etc have consistently proven to hold up to high levels of abuse, when the hobby grade guns have a track record of failure. Does sig fall into top tier or hobby grade? Who's shot one to the point of failure? Most things I read about the m400's reliability goes something like "I shot 500 rounds through my m400 and its been flawless". I'm not saying sig AR's are crap, I'm just saying they have nowhere near the track record of colts, DD, BCM, novekse, etc, and when the price difference is only 10-15%, why bother with something with no history vs something that's proven? Seems like a no brainer to me.
I have around 500 or so through the Sig about 1000 through the DPMS very little through the colt and around 1500 or so through the bushy now my built Ar's I am not going to include since they are not something you can go pick up at your local Wally-World. Here is a link where they run 10,000 rounds of steel cased ammo through four bushmasters for a total of 40,000 rounds and all of them held up through the test! But you know bushmasters are crap........
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
I have around 500 or so through the Sig about 1000 through the DPMS very little through the colt and around 1500 or so through the bushy now my built Ar's I am not going to include since they are not something you can go pick up at your local Wally-World. Here is a link where they run 10,000 rounds of steel cased ammo through four bushmasters for a total of 40,000 rounds and all of them held up through the test! But you know bushmasters are crap........
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
:suicide2:
I bought my Colt 6920 from Grant a little over a year ago for something close to $960 if I remember correctly. With the extras I had added it was right at $1200 (sopmod stock, ASAP end plate, and a battlecomp) assembled and shipped. Why on earth would you go with anything else for that price?
As far as TDP not mattering...Well I can tell you I've had a few AR's before I knew better that didn't meet it (DPMS and CMMG) and they jammed all the time. Had quite a few stuck cases with the CMMG as well. My Colt 6920 hasn't had that problem after almost 8k rounds..and there are members on this board that have put tons more than that through theirs. The TDP isn't the end all be all test of quality, as some companies do go a step further. What the TDP does do however is set the bar for a rifle to meet as far as quality and reliability goes. Any maker who honestly uses the TDP will AT WORST meet the requirements It demands. What does Sig do to measure theirs? Do they even have a means of measuring the quality of there rifles, or do they send them out with question marks? If they do, is it consistent?..
Not to mention with the quality control issues Sig has had as of late, is the extra money not worth the peace of mind? (I do own a Sig btw, a P226 to be exact so this isn't just bias speaking). Peace of mind is worth it to me.
jerparker1
07-08-13, 02:38
Thank you all for your input! I agree that if I'm going to spend $1,100 on a rifle, I think I'd be wise to get a Colt. I'll post pics when I get it.
BufordTJustice
07-08-13, 04:09
Thank you all for your input! I agree that if I'm going to spend $1,100 on a rifle, I think I'd be wise to get a Colt. I'll post pics when I get it.
Wise choice. You won't regret ignoring the bullshit and grabbing a Colt.
Keep us updated.
Thank you all for your input! I agree that if I'm going to spend $1,100 on a rifle, I think I'd be wise to get a Colt. I'll post pics when I get it.
Good deal man. You'll enjoy it!!
I believe in that luckygunner test, they had to pause because two of the four Bushampster barrels started coming loose because they were only torqued to 5 lbs. That is a data point. Issues found on other Bushampsters such as poor staking on gas keys and castle nuts (classic Bushampster) makes me wonder what else has been swept under the proverbial carpet. Have all the parts in the lower been properly heat treated? Will parts of the hammer shear off like the extractors on some 229s at my agency? All things that are possible with any weapon, but seem more probable on non MILSPEC weapons. YMMV.
AR Newby AZ
07-08-13, 12:00
Thank you all for your input! I agree that if I'm going to spend $1,100 on a rifle, I think I'd be wise to get a Colt. I'll post pics when I get it.
I was in the same boat as you coming on this forum but I was looking to get a PSA until I was convinced Colt is the best for the money. I don't regret it at all spending an extra $300 for something I know won't fail me due to the quality. Feed it brass and it'll treat you right.
And no, the m400 at that price isn't a good deal. They should be $850-900 with or without magpul stuff on it.
But you know bushmasters are crap........
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
You said it not me. 2 out of the 4 rifles tested had barrels only torqued to 5ft lbs. What would of happened if the testers had not disassembled and checked the rifles before the test? Those two rifles could of been on the hands of someone relying on that rifle to function. Stupid mistakes like not properly torquing a barrel nut could get someone hurt or worse killed. That article is not a very strong endorsement of the brand, and is typical of what most high volume shooters on this board already know. They're nicknamed "hobby grade" for a reason.
So your answer to my question is you haven't taken your guns to high round counts correct? A lot of people, me included would not even consider an AR broken in yet at 500 rounds. Recommending a gun after shooting 500 rounds through it and saying its a good gun is like driving a new car for 5000 miles and saying its never going to break. Only a fool would think that you could get an equal or better quality gun for less money. Things cost more for a reason and the majority of advice given on this board to not buy crap is sound advice.
vicious_cb
07-08-13, 15:29
I believe in that luckygunner test, they had to pause because two of the four Bushampster barrels started coming loose because they were only torqued to 5 lbs. That is a data point. Issues found on other Bushampsters such as poor staking on gas keys and castle nuts (classic Bushampster) makes me wonder what else has been swept under the proverbial carpet. Have all the parts in the lower been properly heat treated? Will parts of the hammer shear off like the extractors on some 229s at my agency? All things that are possible with any weapon, but seem more probable on non MILSPEC weapons. YMMV.
Yep, mirrors what IG had to do with that shipment of 100 guns. Almost all of them needed some kind of work before they went out the door. I bet 99% of AR users have no idea how to the check the barrel nut torque and would be shit out of luck if they were on their own.
jerparker1
07-08-13, 23:53
Bought my 1st AR tonight. I went with the Colt LE6920 FDE. It was only $10 more than the Sig M400. I'm happy with my decision and think I made the right choice. I can't wait to shoot this thing. I'll post pics in the morning. Thank you again for your input!
Tonyparson
07-09-13, 01:59
Bought my 1st AR tonight. I went with the Colt LE6920 FDE. It was only $10 more than the Sig M400. I'm happy with my decision and think I made the right choice. I can't wait to shoot this thing. I'll post pics in the morning. Thank you again for your input!
Congrats, you'll love your new Colt.
Bought my 1st AR tonight. I went with the Colt LE6920 FDE. It was only $10 more than the Sig M400. I'm happy with my decision and think I made the right choice. I can't wait to shoot this thing. I'll post pics in the morning. Thank you again for your input!
Yes, good choice.
I think the 6920 are like 1150$ or so. I have never seen the M400 enhanced go for 867$ in my area more like 899$ or so if you can find one.
ETA: Just looked on Sigs website and MSRP is 1249$ for the enhanced so 867$ is a smoking good deal for one NIB!
At the Walmarts near me, the costs are:
6920 $1097
6920 with FDE Magpul furniture $1147 (this is what I purchased)
6920 with black Magpul furniture $1167 (not sure why they are $20 more than the FDE, but they are).
jerparker1
07-09-13, 10:10
At the Walmarts near me, the costs are:
6920 $1097
6920 with FDE Magpul furniture $1047 (this is what I purchased)
6920 with black Magpul furniture $1067 (not sure why they are $20 more than the FDE, but they are).
You mean $1,147 & $1,167
skijunkie55
07-09-13, 10:18
You mean $1,147 & $1,167
depends on which Walmart...
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/COLE6920MP-B.aspx
But that's the average price even online.
You mean $1,147 & $1,167
Doh! Yes, 1147 and 1167. Thanks.
I will edit my original post.
Tonyparson
07-09-13, 10:19
You mean $1,147 & $1,167
That's how much they sell them here for.
Bought my 1st AR tonight. I went with the Colt LE6920 FDE. It was only $10 more than the Sig M400. I'm happy with my decision and think I made the right choice. I can't wait to shoot this thing. I'll post pics in the morning. Thank you again for your input!
Congrats! Definitely a great choice, you won't be disappointed!
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