View Full Version : Who runs a Cz?
johnnyrebel87
07-07-13, 19:19
Does anyone here run a CZ as a serious use weapon? I know Mr Pannone has some.....not sure if he runs them as serious weapons or what.
What's your opinion on how valid a choice they are nowadays?
They have to run and shoot well to be as popular as they are in competition.
Several times I have said the CZ 75 would be my next pistol, but it always seems that one is not available when I have the funds available for purchase.
Which particular model holds your interest?
eternal24k
07-07-13, 20:12
Several times I have said the CZ 75 would be my next pistol, but it always seems that one is not available when I have the funds available for purchase.
Which particular model holds your interest?
Same,
something just feels right about the 75, fits my hand like a glove but i never bring myself to buying one.
johnnyrebel87
07-07-13, 20:38
I want a 85 combat (ambi and no firing pin block) or a 75 with it removed and send it to CGW for a action/trigger job, reduced DA reach, and short reset. Also want a accu-bushing installed by CZ custom shop, and some heinie sights, and the thin AL grips. They are thinner than a 1911 with those grips, yet hold over twice as many rounds.
I like the sp-01, but the narrower front end of the 75/85 seems much more comfortable to carry. I reeeeally really want one. Lol.
I want a 85 combat (ambi and no firing pin block) or a 75 with it removed and send it to CGW for a action/trigger job, reduced DA reach, and short reset. Also want a accu-bushing installed by CZ custom shop, and some heinie sights, and the thin AL grips. They are thinner than a 1911 with those grips, yet hold over twice as many rounds.
I like the sp-01, but the narrower front end of the 75/85 seems much more comfortable to carry. I reeeeally really want one. Lol.
http://czcustom.com
Work done through the custom shop is considered "factory". All of the shooters that I know who have bought through them were very happy.
I have a shadow custom and a completely worried over P01 with almost everything CGW carries. I have been shooting the shadow for several years now for USPSA/IDPA/3 gun and it keeps rocking. The P01 is my EDC and occasionally the games as mentioned above.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp56/2005gixxer600/C337EC7F-F815-4C9D-853D-03D5144B0697-3004-0000036294025FD7.jpg
Can't seem to find a pic of the shadow but it looks the same as the P01.
brushy bill
07-07-13, 21:53
I have a shadow custom and a completely worried over P01 with almost everything CGW carries. I have been shooting the shadow for several years now for USPSA/IDPA/3 gun and it keeps rocking.
Any issues with trigger return spring or slide stop breaking? I'm under the impression these are the weak links in the CZ. I like the way they handle, having owned one years ago (limited round count)but these two issues have kept me away.
Any issues with trigger return spring or slide stop breaking? I'm under the impression these are the weak links in the CZ. I like the way they handle, having owned one years ago (limited round count)but these two issues have kept me away.
I personally haven't broke either but the CGW trigger return spring is a higher quality spring then the original and supposedly should fix that issue if it was ever to come around. The same with the slide stop I have heard if them breaking but mine has held up fine on the shadow which has 10x more rounds through it then the P01.
bigrobbierob
07-08-13, 04:34
I had one of the first three rail slot SP01's. Should have never gotten rid of it. Was a dream to shoot. I could cover all 19rds at 25yds with my fist.
johnnyrebel87
07-08-13, 07:16
I have a shadow custom and a completely worried over P01 with almost everything CGW carries. I have been shooting the shadow for several years now for USPSA/IDPA/3 gun and it keeps rocking. The P01 is my EDC and occasionally the games as mentioned above.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp56/2005gixxer600/C337EC7F-F815-4C9D-853D-03D5144B0697-3004-0000036294025FD7.jpg
Can't seem to find a pic of the shadow but it looks the same as the P01.
Awesome.
Superbly written gun review by Mike Pannone on a CZ pistol here
http://www.defensereview.com/cz-p-07-duty-combattactical-pistol-the-best-pistol-nobody-knows-about/
johnnyrebel87
07-08-13, 08:59
Thanks, great article.
For some reason, that's the one cz I'm not interested in. Lol. The phantom interests me if they'd ditch the decocker and offer a safety model.
It's too bad they don't offer a allow full size
I've got a SP01 Shadow that I've put thousands of rounds through in various matches and for practice. It's never once had a malfunction of any kind. The CZ pistols are well known for their accuracy and their "shootability" and I've impressed more than a few people at the range when I let them shoot it, most of them having never even heard of CZ before.
One of the big reasons I love my Glock pistols is because they have awesome logistics, and are easy to work on. The CZ isn't to that level, but parts are pretty easy to get through CZ Custom or Cajun Gun Works, and while they're not as simple as a Glock anyone with a modicum of ability can handle working on them. Mags (the 75 mags at least) are relatively easy to get and pretty cheap.
I'm interested in picking up a P07 for carry use. I've never shot a P07 but a buddy's ex-GF had one and just handling it I really liked the way it felt and the trigger was great for an out of the box gun.
eternal24k
07-08-13, 09:35
I want a 85 combat (ambi and no firing pin block) or a 75 with it removed and send it to CGW for a action/trigger job, reduced DA reach, and short reset. Also want a accu-bushing installed by CZ custom shop, and some heinie sights, and the thin AL grips. They are thinner than a 1911 with those grips, yet hold over twice as many rounds.
I like the sp-01, but the narrower front end of the 75/85 seems much more comfortable to carry. I reeeeally really want one. Lol.
Any more info on thebushing? I had always wanted a match CZ for steel, but never saw any match barrels.
legumeofterror
07-08-13, 09:47
I have carried a CZ75B for going on five years. It has seen many thousands of rounds, been submerged multiple times on fresh and brackish water, carried in all sorts of environments and in general been treated rather poorly with minimal maintinence without a single malfunction or broken part. Aside from surface wear the gun has no issues. I also have a P01 that has seen its fair share of use without problems.
johnnyrebel87
07-08-13, 09:52
Any more info on thebushing? I had always wanted a match CZ for steel, but never saw any match barrels.
Yes, cz custom threads the slide and adds one on the outside and fits it to the barrel, supposedly cuts group size in half
Any more info on thebushing? I had always wanted a match CZ for steel, but never saw any match barrels.
I have a couple of Shadows I use in USPSA competition, but I wouldn't get the Accu-bushing installed on my guns.
In order to thread the slide for the bushing they have to remove the pin that retains the existing bushing and the front sight. The Accu-bushing retains the front sight in place of the pin.
In order to remove the barrel you have to unscrew the bushing, but unscrewing the bushing means the front sight can come out of the slide. To me, that makes the accu-bushing feature undesirable.
However, the from-the-factory accuracy is great. If you get a short reset trigger it shoots even better.
Gary1911A1
07-08-13, 09:55
I never had a slide stop or trigger spring break on mine. I tried a CZ with the Omega Trigger everybody else praises and hated it. To heavy and gritty. Like a bunch of sand was poured into the trigger.
johnnyrebel87
07-08-13, 09:59
That's true.
I will probably wait on the bushing and wait for reviews of it.
But not get one on a carry gun.
...
However, the from-the-factory accuracy is great....
Exactly. We're not talking about something like a M&P9 where we're hoping to go from unacceptable accuracy to something useable. The CZ already is superbly accurate, the new bushing simply makes it even better.
beschatten
07-08-13, 10:11
The 75 SP01 and 85 have held my interests. If only I could stop spending all my dollars on 1911's... If I did get one, I would probably send it to CGW or CZ Custom to help with the reset.
If anyone is looking for CZ's, I believe Damascus in VA has them. Great guys to work with too.
eternal24k
07-08-13, 10:13
Interesting stuff.
ScatmanCrothers
07-08-13, 10:23
I came across a used 75B at my LGS last year and had to buy it at such a low price and the fact that it was available. Bought an extra slide stop (haven't had to use yet) and put on some trijicons and MOB grip tape on the front and rear of the grip and it has served me well since.
I didn't have very high expectations for it but I shoot it just as much as my PPQ and M&P9 these days. The DA is a little rough but the SA is nice. Great accuracy and reliability for the price, not to mention the ability to carry 39rds total with only 1 additional mag (slightly extended) on my person during the winter. 75B + alabama holster flapjack = winner.
Depends what 'running' means.
Until recently the issue is weight. CZs ae very reliable and if not, can be made to be so. Their accuracy is normally not questioned. So, they are good for serious work. But... weight is an issue, as they have refused to make production guns that are light weight AND have a MANUAL safety, which has been the great feature of the CZ 75 system from its beginnings.
Recently things have changed a tad. The P01 seems promising if not a bit thick. The brand NEW Shadow Compact shows promise:
http://czcustom.com/czcompactlblkman.aspx
But... I could completely customize a G19 or an M&P for less. So... I am waiting for a regular production one that comes in at a much lower price.
beschatten
07-08-13, 10:31
I personally love the weight of steel. My Glock's have it's place, but there's something alluring about the feel of steel which makes up for it:p
It seems that CZ's have an overall positive consensus; kind of confusing when you have an industry professional like Todd Green that says he has seen them fail during his courses :confused: doesn't everything fail at one point?
czs are good, but I would suggest sticking with 9mm.
If I was to go back to a hammered pistol, it would be an sp-01 with a SAO trigger. If I had bought one outright I'd probably still be running it, but I went with a .40 compact as a compromise and ended up selling it for an m&p. My m&p 40 is just as accurate as my cz with custom trigger, and I expect even more so with a storm lake conversion bbl. I will say the cz was easier to be accurate though, if that makes sense.
Pros - the 75s have a decent amount of support, cheap mags, reliable and accurate
Cons - more expensive than glocks and m&ps, higher maintenance (but not enough to be an issue- just be aware of it), outdated design, heavier.
Basically, czs are good, but there are better options out there. Just my $.02 with my experience...
QuietShootr
07-08-13, 10:54
I REALLY like the 75B. Obscenely heavy gun compared to a Glock, but when it comes to shooting time that weight makes it a real pleasure. As noted, they appear to be more accurate than standard service pistol expectations, and the ability to carry Condition 1 just sells it for me. I do think CZ is missing the boat by not making a 75B in alloy - I would buy one of those so fast I'd get wallet burn.
The example I am familiar with has never malfunctioned that I am aware of in many thousands of rounds.
I personally love the weight of steel. My Glock's have it's place, but there's something alluring about the feel of steel which makes up for it:p
It seems that CZ's have an overall positive consensus; kind of confusing when you have an industry professional like Todd Green that says he has seen them fail during his courses :confused: doesn't everything fail at one point?
He has some sort of vendetta against them for some reason. Once you hear the whole story of the guns in the class he likes to remind everyone about it doesn't look nearly so bad.
legumeofterror
07-08-13, 11:09
Yet he is totally willing to advocate the turd that is the S&W M&P. All you have to do is replace the majority of the components with aftermarket parts and it is great...
misanthropist
07-08-13, 12:15
I was in the class that Todd tells the story about (running a Glock).
There were a lot of stoppages among the CZs but most were the result of people using Tanfoglio mags in their guns, which I think had something to do with magazine availability at the time.
The only issue I can remember that was traced to a gun was (IIRC) an erratic ejection problem related to a broken ejector that had tens of thousands of rounds on it, and which was swapped out and consequently fixed with minimal effort.
The owner of that gun is a good friend of mine and a serious iPSC shooter. He is very confident in his guns and they see a combined total of around 40,000 rounds annually.
Flawless, sub-moa fit and finish...all day long.
beschatten
07-08-13, 12:18
I was in the class that Todd tells the story about (running a Glock).
There were a lot of stoppages among the CZs but most were the result of people using Tanfoglio mags in their guns, which I think had something to do with magazine availability at the time.
The only issue I can remember that was traced to a gun was (IIRC) an erratic ejection problem related to a broken ejector that had tens of thousands of rounds on it, and which was swapped out and consequently fixed with minimal effort.
The owner of that gun is a good friend of mine and a serious iPSC shooter. He is very confident in his guns and they see a combined total of around 40,000 rounds annually.
Flawless, sub-moa fit and finish...all day long.
Good to know. I knew there was a second side to the story.
My weight comments are for "all day carry". Most today want a lighter gun for good reason. On the range this is not an issue.
cz's are prolific worldwide. I have never had a bad experience even with the crappy looking ones.
Excellent ergonomics, recoil characteristics, and trigger. Shockingly good for the era. I had an 80's one that became preferred carry.
Once the rd ct gets up you do HAVE to replace springs or will beat parts up.
legumeofterror
07-08-13, 12:37
I honestly notice no difference when carrying my CZ75B, P01, and Steyr M in terms of weight/comfort. As a result I almost always just carry the easier to shoot 75.
Yet he is totally willing to advocate the turd that is the S&W M&P. All you have to do is replace the majority of the components with aftermarket parts and it is great...
That is true of every handgun I know of. (glocks, cz, etc)
Sights, triggers, barrels. No gun is great OTB except maybe HK's and some people (like me) just don't like them.
outside of the 9mm barrel issues, what problems have there been with the m&p?
beschatten
07-08-13, 12:59
I honestly notice no difference when carrying my CZ75B, P01, and Steyr M in terms of weight/comfort. As a result I almost always just carry the easier to shoot 75.
I kind of made the same observations when I carried a 1911 vs a Glock 17. I'm sure this is a personal thing though.
legumeofterror
07-08-13, 13:00
outside of the 9mm barrel issues, what problems have there been with the m&p?
Every time i see one recomended it is with the replacement of trigger components with apex parts, otherwise the trigger decidedly sub-par. There is also the toss up on if your will shoot lome garbage, which requires a custom fitted barrel to correct (I know of no other handgun from a reputable manufacturer that has such a problem). In addition to S&Ws inability to consistently produce a handgun that locks up prperly and shoots well (an attribute I am certain most members of this forum would shit all over in, say, an AR15) they made the slide and barrel out of stainless, simply because they were heavily invested in stainless production after dropping blued revolvers, then treated them with a process that eliminated the stainless property of the material and caused rust. They also chose a slower twist rate because that was the tooling on hand they had for thier revolver barrels. When I look at the M&P, I see a series of poor design choices and crappy manufacturing that has taken them literally years to sort out, all of which i consider unacceptable considering everyone else can get it right. They have produced rather poor autoloaders in the last 20 years. Mind you this is coming from a guy who owns more S&W handguns than anything else.
I have my old CZ-75 from cold war years. My first personal handgun (89) fired uncountable number of rnds. My CZ-85 shot thousands of rnds, but the amb. Slid release broke and became safe queen. It was one of my carry guns for years. My other carry gun was a CZ-83 in 380 it was upgraded to a SS CZ-83 due to rust climate. I really like the way it feels in the hand, all of them. I've seen one PD that has them as duty gun in the midwest. FYI. My old 75 was my "fun gun" at the range on weekends, in going to the range with 6 +mags and 1000-2000 rnds to blow off. Neve had gun malfunction just ammo. I had a bullet unseat in mag and powder burn up in mag. no damage to firearm. I'd still use mine but I'd rather have a Glock or Ruger be lost in system than it. That I could replace easy.. no lost memento of my youth.
johnnyrebel87
07-08-13, 13:21
Thanks for the insight fellas.
Do they weigh more than a 5" steel 1911? I carried a Dan Wesson pm10 for awhile no problems. Weight isn't really a concern. Mainly durability and reliability! And it's sounding like they are a winner. A trigger job, reduced reset, reduced reach DA, thin cz grips, sounds like a winner.
Maybe do a big heavy race gun later with the bushing....just pipe dreams and a waste for a carry gun. Just dreaming. Lol.
So if I say that weight is no factor, and the initial gun price is no factor, I don't mind minor maintenance and lubing, then what are the disadvantages? I'm not seeing any......there's holsters made and well reputable gunsmiths who will do whatever you want.
I wonder why they're not note popular? Other than competition.
LightningFast
07-08-13, 13:26
I wonder why they're not note popular? Other than competition.
Because cool guys haven't endorsed the heck out of them.
People see Trainer A say he saw one fail in class and he thinks they're junk. Trainer B has never mentioned them, and he exclusively shoots some tricked out striker fired gun.
johnnyrebel87
07-08-13, 13:29
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/bamarammin87/B994D2FC-DC67-4C07-B2E3-409EB0DB42E7-1761-00000195815D35BA.jpg
I want this, with a short reset and reduced reach job!
beschatten
07-08-13, 13:44
Thanks for the insight fellas.
Do they weigh more than a 5" steel 1911? I carried a Dan Wesson pm10 for awhile no problems. Weight isn't really a concern. Mainly durability and reliability! And it's sounding like they are a winner. A trigger job, reduced reset, reduced reach DA, thin cz grips, sounds like a winner.
Maybe do a big heavy race gun later with the bushing....just pipe dreams and a waste for a carry gun. Just dreaming. Lol.
So if I say that weight is no factor, and the initial gun price is no factor, I don't mind minor maintenance and lubing, then what are the disadvantages? I'm not seeing any......there's holsters made and well reputable gunsmiths who will do whatever you want.
I wonder why they're not note popular? Other than competition.
They should be roughly around the same~2.4ish pounds. Don't quote me on that as I didn't double check it off their sites.
Full-steel and DA/SA trigger mechanisms aren't as popular as they were.
They are popular though, we're just in the wrong country haha.
QuietShootr
07-08-13, 13:45
Because cool guys haven't endorsed the heck out of them.
People see Trainer A say he saw one fail in class and he thinks they're junk. Trainer B has never mentioned them, and he exclusively shoots some tricked out striker fired gun.
That's exactly why. The 75 is a sleeper par excellence, as are a lot of CZ's weapons. I have carried and shot Glocks for years, and I am quite enamored of the 75. (Note that my remarks apply to real Czech guns, not the clones. Use Czech guns, parts, and magazines, and they run and run and run.) Also - I'm a Condition 1 user, which to my mind is one of the big advantages of the CZs - if you carry it in Condition 2, you're negating a big part of the advantage it has over other DA/SA guns.
johnnyrebel87
07-08-13, 14:10
That's exactly why. The 75 is a sleeper par excellence, as are a lot of CZ's weapons. I have carried and shot Glocks for years, and I am quite enamored of the 75. (Note that my remarks apply to real Czech guns, not the clones. Use Czech guns, parts, and magazines, and they run and run and run.) Also - I'm a Condition 1 user, which to my mind is one of the big advantages of the CZs - if you carry it in Condition 2, you're negating a big part of the advantage it has over other DA/SA guns.
How easy are the safeties to operate? Condition 1 was what I wanted, but they look like they have small, easy to miss safeties.
LightningFast
07-08-13, 14:17
How easy are the safeties to operate? Condition 1 was what I wanted, but they look like they have small, easy to miss safeties.
I have never had a problem with the controls of any CZ. CZ also offers different options of safeties.
http://czcustom.com/cz-factory-safety.aspx
QuietShootr
07-08-13, 14:26
How easy are the safeties to operate? Condition 1 was what I wanted, but they look like they have small, easy to miss safeties.
Looks that way, but it isn't. I use the Brown tactical slimline safety on my 1911s, and the CZ's safety is just fine.
Every time i see one recomended it is with the replacement of trigger components with apex parts, otherwise the trigger decidedly sub-par. There is also the toss up on if your will shoot lome garbage, which requires a custom fitted barrel to correct (I know of no other handgun from a reputable manufacturer that has such a problem). In addition to S&Ws inability to consistently produce a handgun that locks up prperly and shoots well (an attribute I am certain most members of this forum would shit all over in, say, an AR15) they made the slide and barrel out of stainless, simply because they were heavily invested in stainless production after dropping blued revolvers, then treated them with a process that eliminated the stainless property of the material and caused rust. They also chose a slower twist rate because that was the tooling on hand they had for thier revolver barrels. When I look at the M&P, I see a series of poor design choices and crappy manufacturing that has taken them literally years to sort out, all of which i consider unacceptable considering everyone else can get it right. They have produced rather poor autoloaders in the last 20 years. Mind you this is coming from a guy who owns more S&W handguns than anything else.
I have two M&P45s, and I did change out the sears to the Apex product. Both of mine are tack drivers. I did upgrade the magazine springs and have had total reliability since that point.
The midsize 45 makes a very nice carry package.
The recent production 9/40 models seem to have a much improved trigger based simply on dry fire.
legumeofterror
07-08-13, 15:04
How easy are the safeties to operate? Condition 1 was what I wanted, but they look like they have small, easy to miss safeties.
I have never missed mine...
I have an SP-01 and a 97.
The SP-01 has been fabulous and, yes, its been worked over to get a 1911ish single-action trigger pull. The original parts were cleaned up and a new sear spring installed. The gun has been a solid performer through 6k rounds.
OTOH the 97 has not been so robust.
I had two significant part failures:
The barrel lug sheared off after about 2500 rounds which was a total show stopper. The factory recoil spring seemed weak to me. It may have led to the lug failure.
The firing pin snapped at about the 3000 round mark. The gun continued to run in this condition for several hundred rounds.
CZ fixed both.
The 97 is also sensitive to cartridge length; leading to nose-down jams when it doesn't like something.
Its a comfortable shooter and plenty accurate but I'm not convinced that CZ has figured out the 45.
legumeofterror
07-08-13, 15:27
I have an SP-01 and a 97.
The SP-01 has been fabulous and, yes, its been worked over to get a 1911ish single-action trigger pull. The original parts were cleaned up and a new sear spring installed. The gun has been a solid performer through 6k rounds.
OTOH the 97 has not been so robust.
I had two significant part failures:
The barrel lug sheared off after about 2500 rounds which was a total show stopper. The factory recoil spring seemed weak to me. It may have led to the lug failure.
The firing pin snapped at about the 3000 round mark. The gun continued to run in this condition for several hundred rounds.
CZ fixed both.
The 97 is also sensitive to cartridge length; leading to nose-down jams when it doesn't like something.
Its a comfortable shooter and plenty accurate but I'm not convinced that CZ has figured out the 45.
What year is your 97? They have made signifigant changes to that model recently, including changing the feed ramp profile.
How easy are the safeties to operate? Condition 1 was what I wanted, but they look like they have small, easy to miss safeties.
There are multiple options for safeties, from the in-between 75 safeties to the wider Shadow safeties to the ultra-slim Rami safeties. I believe on a new gun the safeties are interchangeable (with some fitting, obviously). To wit: I use a Rami safety on my Shadow because I'm the opposite of you - I want my safety ultra-difficult to switch on and off.
My main caution about CZs is not about part breakages - any gun you use for self defense should have better parts replacement / maintenance discipline than any range toy. No, my caution is that if you're used to Glocks or 1911s, your will find replacing a handful of parts on the CZ to be frustrating. The way the sear cage/ trigger spring, trigger bar is designed can yield an amazing DA/SA trigger pull, but it's a royal pain in the ass to detail strip compared to a Glock or 1911. That's about it.
What year is your 97? They have made signifigant changes to that model recently, including changing the feed ramp profile.
The barrel was replaced in May '08.
johnnyrebel87
07-08-13, 16:53
That sucks about the 97, the CGW bushing 97 gun looks awesome.
eternal24k
07-08-13, 18:32
Anybody have a SAO CZ? I have been hot and bothered for an accurate all steel SAO 9mm for shooting steel, been looking at 1911s and Sigs, but this thread has opened my eyes, I had no idea how much new stuff CZ custom shop has been putting out in the past few years
LightningFast
07-08-13, 19:16
Anybody have a SAO CZ? I have been hot and bothered for an accurate all steel SAO 9mm for shooting steel, been looking at 1911s and Sigs, but this thread has opened my eyes, I had no idea how much new stuff CZ custom shop has been putting out in the past few years
I don't. But my friend just converted his 75b to SAO and the trigger is glorious. He had the comp hammer installed with it.
To the people who want a full size polymer with manual safety look for a P09.
I'm a big CZ fan and I do not think working on them is to hard really. If you talk to David a CGW he will sell you everything you need to get the job done. Everything he has is made in the USA and he provides awesome slave pins to make the jobs easier.
The P01 was a little bit of a pain due to the decocker but once I figured that out it was decent. Now that they make a P01 with a manual safety I would pick one of this up over my decocker.
I also had a P07 and it shot great but I didn't like the omega trigger (already had my custom shadow) and wanted to change things up so I sold it and bought the P01. Do not regret it at all.
I have heard people say that CZ has failures at classes as well but it shoots matches just fine so I do not see it having any problems in a class. I wouldn't hesitate to take my P01.
johnnyrebel87
07-08-13, 19:42
To the people who want a full size polymer with manual safety look for a P09.
I'm a big CZ fan and I do not think working on them is to hard really. If you talk to David a CGW he will sell you everything you need to get the job done. Everything he has is made in the USA and he provides awesome slave pins to make the jobs easier.
The P01 was a little bit of a pain due to the decocker but once I figured that out it was decent. Now that they make a P01 with a manual safety I would pick one of this up over my decocker.
I also had a P07 and it shot great but I didn't like the omega trigger (already had my custom shadow) and wanted to change things up so I sold it and bought the P01. Do not regret it at all.
I have heard people say that CZ has failures at classes as well but it shoots matches just fine so I do not see it having any problems in a class. I wouldn't hesitate to take my P01.
Does the p-09 have a standard trigger or the omega?
Never mind, has the omega trigger.
If the phantom had a manual safety it would be a winner.
Does the p-09 have a standard trigger or the omega?
Never mind, has the omega trigger.
If the phantom had a manual safety it would be a winner.
The omega trigger is Ok. The pull isn't bad but I like having a real short reset and that it won't do.
In the budget dept, my CZ82 put 3 mags inside a 12x18 target at a measured 40 feet. Gun made me look like I could shoot!
t
Every time i see one recomended it is with the replacement of trigger components with apex parts, otherwise the trigger decidedly sub-par. There is also the toss up on if your will shoot lome garbage, which requires a custom fitted barrel to correct (I know of no other handgun from a reputable manufacturer that has such a problem). In addition to S&Ws inability to consistently produce a handgun that locks up prperly and shoots well (an attribute I am certain most members of this forum would shit all over in, say, an AR15) they made the slide and barrel out of stainless, simply because they were heavily invested in stainless production after dropping blued revolvers, then treated them with a process that eliminated the stainless property of the material and caused rust. They also chose a slower twist rate because that was the tooling on hand they had for thier revolver barrels. When I look at the M&P, I see a series of poor design choices and crappy manufacturing that has taken them literally years to sort out, all of which i consider unacceptable considering everyone else can get it right. They have produced rather poor autoloaders in the last 20 years. Mind you this is coming from a guy who owns more S&W handguns than anything else.
Have you shot an m&p made in recent years( since the rust issue has been fixed, it was pretty early iirc)? If you've had an issue, did you contact s&w about the problem and how did they respond? I believe bbl issues are design flaws that s&w is fixing, so an aftermarket bbl is not necessary.
I responded to the rest of this comment In the mp bbl saga thread as I stated in pm as to not derail this thread anymore.
I completed my academy and firearms instructor school with a SP-01 Shadow. It was extremely accurate and reliable except for one reason. It wouldn't lock back the slide on the last round.
I owned a SAO Shadow and while the trigger broke clean, the take-up was somewhat undesirable.
I was a die hard CZ fan boy. What turned me off was the lack of holsters , parts and gunsmiths that were willing to work on them (custom work).
I completed my academy and firearms instructor school with a SP-01 Shadow. It was extremely accurate and reliable except for one reason. It wouldn't lock back the slide on the last round.
I owned a SAO Shadow and while the trigger broke clean, the take-up was somewhat undesirable.
I was a die hard CZ fan boy. What turned me off was the lack of holsters , parts and gunsmiths that were willing to work on them (custom work).
Yea the lack of holsters gets annoying. Only a few companies make them. There is a new disconnector that takes most of the pre travel out of SA. I don't have one as I ride the reset when shooting so it doesn't really bother me much but the option is there.
TakeAwayTheFear
07-09-13, 06:15
I dont have one but id love to get one!
johnnyrebel87
07-09-13, 14:15
If you buy quality, handmade holsters, you can pretty much find any kind for any pistol.
Stock triggers don't really concern me....most guns factory triggers are less than perfect. Apex, gray guns, ghost inc, etc wouldn't exist if popular guns had perfect triggers.
I completed my academy and firearms instructor school with a SP-01 Shadow. It was extremely accurate and reliable except for one reason. It wouldn't lock back the slide on the last round.
I owned a SAO Shadow and while the trigger broke clean, the take-up was somewhat undesirable.
I was a die hard CZ fan boy. What turned me off was the lack of holsters , parts and gunsmiths that were willing to work on them (custom work).
Interesting how times change. There are a number of really competent, qualified people who I wouldn't hesitate to let work on my guns. Matt Mink, Stuart Wong, David Milam, the other guys at the CZ Custom shop, et al are great. Parts are also easy to get these days from CZ USA, the CZ Custom Shop, and of course Cajun Gunworks.
Anybody have a SAO CZ? I have been hot and bothered for an accurate all steel SAO 9mm for shooting steel, been looking at 1911s and Sigs, but this thread has opened my eyes, I had no idea how much new stuff CZ custom shop has been putting out in the past few years
I have a 75B SA that was worked over by Stuart Wong a couple years ago and it's a pleasure to shoot. I have the comp hammer (removed all creep), SAO trigger (pre and over travel adjustment), removed firing pin block, and lighter springs. With the lightest mainspring I can get a ~1.75 lb trigger pull. The Shadow SAO looks pretty similar as far as parts go.
http://i.imgur.com/sGFWhKK.jpeg
Typical accuracy if the shooter does his part. This is 25 yards standing unsupported. The X was with .22's and I pulled the first shot (way high).
http://i.imgur.com/8zx0QTX.jpeg
How easy are the safeties to operate? Condition 1 was what I wanted, but they look like they have small, easy to miss safeties.
Maybe it is just me with my short thumbs, but I've noticed that the manual safety on a 1911 or a Hi Power is easier to manipulate, since the pivot point for the safety is more to the rear of the frame on those pistols.
On CZ's 75, 85, SP-01 platforms, the safety is placed in a more forward position on the frame, and this puts the pivot point in a more forward position than what I'm used to as far as condition 1 manual safeties. This forces me to roll the pistol in my hand a bit to reliably and comfortably disengage the manual safety on the pistol.
I haven't tried one of the SA safeties on a CZ yet though.
I currently own 2 a P01 and a CZ75B Both have been stellar reliability wise. I've done trigger jobs on both went the full boat option on the P01 with Cajun Gun Works parts including the short reset trigger and comp hammer D/A pull is 7lbs and S/A is 3 even. On the B model I decided to just use factory parts other than an extra length firing pin and a 13 lb mainspring. Cleaned up and polished the hammer changed sights and now have another pistol with a 3lb S/A and 7lb D/A the reset is much better on the P01 but the trigger on the B is just as crisp and I shoot it better due to the extra weight and longer sight radius. A pre B was my first handgun purchased from the rod and gun club in Munich in 1988. It cost me $275 then.
bigrobbierob
07-10-13, 08:42
For me I've been trying to weigh my options as I want to get back into CZ's. My gun will be a duel performer(as always), defensive and gaming. And I would preferr a full size, non-polymer offering. Do I man up and lug around an SP-01? Do I forgo a light rail and run a 75, 85 or one of the newer 75 Shadows?
Deffinetly one of those situations where I wish someone lived close by to let me try a bunch out.
I have been using CZ products since 1980. They were the go to pistol before Glocks for most Third World countries who couldn't afford the FN Hi Power. I have fired thousands of rounds through CZs without any failure of parts, mostly using SMG ammo. Of course I replaced recoil springs etc. Never had a slide stop break.
Very tough platform.
Regards Joe
http://i43.tinypic.com/einhpc.jpg
johnnyrebel87
07-10-13, 09:20
For me I've been trying to weigh my options as I want to get back into CZ's. My gun will be a duel performer(as always), defensive and gaming. And I would preferr a full size, non-polymer offering. Do I man up and lug around an SP-01? Do I forgo a light rail and run a 75, 85 or one of the newer 75 Shadows?
Deffinetly one of those situations where I wish someone lived close by to let me try a bunch out.
I am having to do the same thing.....will be a carry/range/competition gun. Going with a 75/85 because the sp-01 is even heavier and has that big, square front end while the 75/85 has the narrow front end and will carry easier.
Shadows are sweet.....It mainly depends on what I find when I have the money as to what ill get. Either a 75 or 85, either from cz custom or stock and send it to CGW or CZC.
Got two SP-01 Shadows built by USPSA GM Matt Mink. I used to run G34s in USPSA, but these things are just SOooo much better.
Yea the lack of holsters gets annoying. Only a few companies make them. There is a new disconnector that takes most of the pre travel out of SA. I don't have one as I ride the reset when shooting so it doesn't really bother me much but the option is there.
You ride the reset? Have you confirmed this by more than "just a feeling". You really should get some vid of your trigger finger. Most people on think they do it.
BTW, the disco's you speak of are the shit.
You ride the reset? Have you confirmed this by more than "just a feeling". You really should get some vid of your trigger finger. Most people on think they do it.
BTW, the disco's you speak of are the shit.
Well I "Feel" as if I ride the reset as my trigger finger goes to reset and then stops shortly after. I might go a small amount to far but I don't believe that would make a much if a difference for me anyway.
I will eventually get some new disco's but not yet.
There are only two things I dislike about CZ-75 pistols:
1) It is very difficult to replace firing pin retaining pins.
2) It is difficult to rack the slide.
Other than that, they're great.
This is one of the two pistols that I truly regret trading/selling away...
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j258/pizzled/IMG_2218.jpg (http://s82.photobucket.com/user/pizzled/media/IMG_2218.jpg.html)
It was accurate and handled double and triple taps with ease, due to it's high grip and low, inset slide. The balance just works for it. The PCR has great ergonomics that fit my hand very well.
On top of that, I think that the PCR is the best looking of the CZ's. It has a design that is better looking than many of the pistols in it's class, regardless of make.
legumeofterror
07-11-13, 08:09
There are only two things I dislike about CZ-75 pistols:
1) It is very difficult to replace firing pin retaining pins.
2) It is difficult to rack the slide.
Other than that, they're great.
I have never once missed the slide or have it slip from my grip when clearing induced malfunctions or when completing any other operation of the pistol. The inset slide does however reduce the resiprocating mass as well as the height of that mass reducing felt recoil and improving follow up shot speed.
I will take actual quantifiable benefits over invented concerns over how difficult the slide may be to grab.
It was accurate and handled double and triple taps with ease, due to it's high grip and low, inset slide. The balance just works for it. The PCR has great ergonomics that fit my hand very well.
On top of that, I think that the PCR is the best looking of the CZ's. It has a design that is better looking than many of the pistols in it's class, regardless of make.[/I][/SIZE]
When CZ USA pulls its head out of its 4PC, and produces a PCR with MANUAL SAFETY, I'll buy it period.
When CZ USA pulls its head out of its 4PC, and produces a PCR with MANUAL SAFETY, I'll buy it period.
This close enough?
http://czcustom.com/czcompactlblkman.aspx
Moose-Knuckle
07-11-13, 17:01
Superbly written gun review by Mike Pannone on a CZ pistol here
http://www.defensereview.com/cz-p-07-duty-combattactical-pistol-the-best-pistol-nobody-knows-about/
Great read, thanks for posting the link.
IIRC, Col. Jeff Cooper always had good things to say about the CZ 75.
Years ago when I worked the sales counter for an FFL I would get to handle pretty much everything that came through our store. I have never felt another handgun fit my hand (proverbial glove) like the CZ P-01 did. At that time I was a broke college kid so I only could buy one handgun, I went with a G19. I have multple GLOCKs now but one day would like to pick up a P-01.
johnnyrebel87
07-11-13, 19:36
When CZ USA pulls its head out of its 4PC, and produces a PCR with MANUAL SAFETY, I'll buy it period.
And a phantom with a safety.
And a alloy framed 75/85. That would be my perfect gun.
There are only two things I dislike about CZ-75 pistols:
1) It is very difficult to replace firing pin retaining pins.
Other than that, they're great. Actually this is easy Get a solid Firing pin Retaining pin from either CGW or CZ Custom, use a roll pin punch that fits, start it moving untill you can get the solid pin started then drive it out the rest of the way with the new pin. I have used both of these pins and they are both excellent products No worries about breakage with either both hell for stout parts.
I have never once missed the slide or have it slip from my grip when clearing induced malfunctions or when completing any other operation of the pistol. The inset slide does however reduce the resiprocating mass as well as the height of that mass reducing felt recoil and improving follow up shot speed.
I will take actual quantifiable benefits over invented concerns over how difficult the slide may be to grab.
It's much easier to rack the slide on most other common service pistols such as Sigs, H&Ks, and Glocks. I agree that the slide is not that hard to rack in ideal conditions.
What if...
-My hand is sweaty, bloody, broken, or cut?
-There is a jam of some sort requiring more force to rack the slide?
How much lighter is a CZ slide really? I've never weighed one but they are pretty substantial.
How is the mass of the slide of the CZ concentrated lower than that of a conventional auto pistol's slide (e.g. Sig, H&K, or Glock)? The inverted slide rail design makes the slide shorter on the bottom; not longer on the bottom or shorter on the top.
Actually this is easy Get a solid Firing pin Retaining pin from either CGW or CZ Custom, use a roll pin punch that fits, start it moving untill you can get the solid pin started then drive it out the rest of the way with the new pin. I have used both of these pins and they are both excellent products No worries about breakage with either both hell for stout parts.
I attempted to change my roll pins for a CZ Custom solid pin. It was a real nightmare. I had to take mine to CZ Custom to get it installed. the trick is penetrating oil, a good vise, and a big hammer.
I attempted to change my roll pins for a CZ Custom solid pin. It was a real nightmare. I had to take mine to CZ Custom to get it installed. the trick is penetrating oil, a good vise, and a big hammer.
I didnt have a problem with the last 3 I've done but do have the proper tools including a BFH. I hope while they had it out they replaced the firing pin with an extended version to allow the use of a 13lb mainspring. It makes a huge differance in the trigger pull and keeps it reliable.
It's much easier to rack the slide on most other common service pistols such as Sigs, H&Ks, and Glocks. I agree that the slide is not that hard to rack in ideal conditions.
What if...
-My hand is sweaty, bloody, broken, or cut?
-There is a jam of some sort requiring more force to rack the slide?
It's a non issue in my experience. Especially with the mepro sights, it's a giant block of steal on top of the slide. I usually didn't even grip the slide when racking it. In addition, the slide serrations are very aggressive.
How much lighter is a CZ slide really? I've never weighed one but they are pretty substantial.
How is the mass of the slide of the CZ concentrated lower than that of a conventional auto pistol's slide (e.g. Sig, H&K, or Glock)? The inverted slide rail design makes the slide shorter on the bottom; not longer on the bottom or shorter on the top.
Red is me. The only other thing I can comment on is that Cz does have a low bore height resulting in little muzzle flip. This is with the newer ergos.
Having done many unloaded table starts in USPSA with wet hands, cold hands, sweaty hands, dirty hands, etc... under time stress and while trying to hurry as much as possible I have never once had any trouble racking the slide of my Shadow.
I can see how someone unfamiliar with CZs may imagine it's a problem due to the smaller area you can grip, but in practice it's a complete non-issue.
When CZ USA pulls its head out of its 4PC, and produces a PCR with MANUAL SAFETY, I'll buy it period.
While not a PCR. CZ Custom has recently imported the 75 B Compact L (P01) and worked them over in their shop with tuned parts.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v429/TimDawg/b4e6db5c-5fb3-46f5-8c35-f361cb8de9db_zpsaf836349.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/TimDawg/media/b4e6db5c-5fb3-46f5-8c35-f361cb8de9db_zpsaf836349.jpg.html)
The compact L model is a welcome change to the CZ line up however it is quite pricey and I would like to see a regular production run of PCRs and P01s with manual safeties in the CZ line. They (manual safety CZs) are fairly easy to disassemble and perform work on and I like to do it myself. When you go north of 800 dollars, options open very wide.
johnnyrebel87
07-16-13, 07:56
The compact L model is a welcome change to the CZ line up however it is quite pricey and I would like to see a regular production run of PCRs and P01s with manual safeties in the CZ line. They (manual safety CZs) are fairly easy to disassemble and perform work on and I like to do it myself. When you go north of 800 dollars, options open very wide.
Yeah...a plain 500$ one would open up options to do the trigger work yourself and whatnot.
Swamp Yankee
07-18-13, 08:09
After recently reading the Mike Pannone review of the P-07 Duty and now this thread, I have had CZ on the brain. As luck would haveit, I stopped in a local shop this week and there was a brand new P-07 Duty sitting in the case surrounded by old revolvers and some other low end semis. I have been looking for a lightweight 9mm, hammer fired gun for AIWB carry and the P-07 Duty has a lot going for it. The model I held was a de-cock version with the factory tritium front sight post, which is exactly what i was interested in. I was blown away by how slim the grip profile was and how light the gun felt overall. The DA/SA trigger was also surprisingly pleasant and very easy to use. This was refreshing for me since all I have been shooting lately is V3 H&K's. This feels like a true mid-size gun to me and was incredibly comfortable. I like the fact that magazines are readily available online and all of the holster makers I currently use offer products for the P-07. I was considering going the FNH FNX-9 route previously, but I think the CZ would be a good fit for me overall. If I can drum up the cash fast enough, I think I am going to give this gun a chance.
After finally giving up on trying to shoot Glocks well last weekend I picked up a P-07. The grip feels very similar to my SP-01 Shadow, which is a good thing. Mine came with night sights front and rear and they're actually pretty decent sights. At the range yesterday I was impressed by the very small amount of muzzle flip and the surprisingly good trigger. I'm not really a great pistol shooter but I can easily shoot fist-sized group at 10-15 yards with fairly rapid shooting. I only put about 100 rounds through it yesterday, but saw no malfunctions.
I have a 75BD, a P01 and a SP01 Shadow. In the past I have had both Glocks and M&Ps. Without a doubt the CZ have been as or more reliable than either of them and easier to shoot as well. For holsters, I use both High Noon and Blade Tech. I believe Comp Tac also makes its paddle holster for the P01 and SP01 as well.
Here's my SP-01. I bought it directly from Angus Hobdell back in April of 2005. It was one of the first SP-01s in the US. The grips are Zericote made by Hakan Pek of Norway. I absolutely love shooting this gun...accurate and eats anything.
http://dnjclark.smugmug.com/Hobbies/Gun-Stuff/i-Pr4p3kP/0/L/100_0206-L.jpg
The more I keep asking Mike Pannone about CZ handguns the more I want one.
LOL
The more I keep asking Mike Pannone about CZ handguns the more I want one.
LOL I think of the CZ 75 like I do a 1911 or Hi-Power, as a base for what can become a wonderful pistol with a few choice parts. New sights, a trigger job, differant grips and extra mags. Off you go. I have far less in both my CZ75B and my P01 combined than I do into my Springfield Loaded stainless.
I think of the CZ 75 like I do a 1911 or Hi-Power, as a base for what can become a wonderful pistol with a few choice parts. New sights, a trigger job, differant grips and extra mags. Off you go. I have far less in both my CZ75B and my P01 combined than I do into my Springfield Loaded stainless.
Indeed. With a basic set of tools and half of a clue you can make a pretty big improvement in what was a great gun to begin with. CZs satisfy my need for tinkering.
eternal24k
08-09-13, 13:31
Thanks to this thread I have ended my search for a SAO 9mm and I will be picking my SP-01 Shadow SA up this afternoon. Hope it meets my expectations, or it's Back to the X-5 vs 9mm 1911 debate
beschatten
08-09-13, 14:16
Thanks to this thread I have ended my search for a SAO 9mm and I will be picking my SP-01 Shadow SA up this afternoon. Hope it meets my expectations, or it's Back to the X-5 vs 9mm 1911 debate
We all know the 9mm 1911 is the correct choice :)
eternal24k
08-09-13, 14:19
We all know the 9mm 1911 is the correct choice :)
It was hard picking up a new platform, but in my current price range the 9mm 1911 was too much of a crapshoot
beschatten
08-09-13, 14:40
It was hard picking up a new platform, but in my current price range the 9mm 1911 was too much of a crapshoot
Look into the STI Trojan. Brazo's Custom carries them. It's far, far cheaper than an X-5.
eternal24k
08-09-13, 17:04
CZ SP-01 SA Shadow in hand. Initial impressions: trigger amazing, sight good. wish the shelf on the safety was lower, with y hands my thumbs comfortably sit just below the safety. Grips are a bit too thick as well(factory rubber), hopefully thinner ones will help because i have to significantly adjust grip to actuate slide release.
Thing has some heft, which will be nice on the range, this is will be range toy after all. We will see how i feel down the road, but it may get replaced with an X-5 or 9mm 1911 if it is not love.
CZ SP-01 SA Shadow in hand. Initial impressions: trigger amazing, sight good. wish the shelf on the safety was lower, with y hands my thumbs comfortably sit just below the safety. Grips are a bit too thick as well(factory rubber), hopefully thinner ones will help because i have to significantly adjust grip to actuate slide release.
Thing has some heft, which will be nice on the range, this is will be range toy after all. We will see how i feel down the road, but it may get replaced with an X-5 or 9mm 1911 if it is not love.
When I ran a Cz I used my offhand to hit the slide release going from seating mag to getting a good grip back on the gun. Just something to try.
eternal24k
08-10-13, 21:28
When I ran a Cz I used my offhand to hit the slide release going from seating mag to getting a good grip back on the gun. Just something to try.
yep, that's what I determined I would have to do. After spending some time with it and my 1911s, i realized it was not the distance as much as it was the safety in the way of my thumb.
yep, that's what I determined I would have to do. After spending some time with it and my 1911s, i realized it was not the distance as much as it was the safety in the way of my thumb.
On my compact it was just too short to reach well. It was not noticeably slower, but I didn't have a timer either.
Cz has come a long way on this site since 2009 when they were battling up from an off brand with lack of support to what seems to be a preferred brand with ever growing support.
I STILL think CZ could have learned from Tanfoglio in the design of the trigger with a FPB. If you pick up a TF or IWI, you will see a real difference in the trigger. Most IWI guns I pick up have a very crisp SA OTB. The omega seems to be a slight improvement in a stock gun. The std trigger can be made excellent but takes either much time and/or money.
I own some PreBs and a compact, and I've tried to like the P07, but just don't love the thick top end and skinny grip, and expensive mags. Might look at a IWI 941 in polymer.
Would love to handle a P01 Omega, but CZ s are hens teeth now.
But I do think the CZ has come a long way and offers awesome accuracy, ergonomics and reliability.
Evel Baldgui
04-30-17, 12:39
Have had a P07 for the past year or so, no issues, has run quite well in classes and regular old fun range days, more accurate than my glock 19 and as accurate as my vp9, reliability, not even a concern, just runs great.
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