Kimber's SIS

[TREE]

I am curious about people's experience with this gun. It was set up for LAPD's high-speed investigations section and, according to the gun mags, had input from Hilton Yam and Larry Vickers. Ironically one of the specs was for a Series I Kimber, which is a no-go in CA, but people outside that state get the Series I.

I fumbled with one in a gun shop and think the combination of the subdued SIS serations and the finish is an odd combination, but that is the extent of my contact with it. Anyone have any real experience with one?

[Robb Jensen]

I like the pistol and think it's a good value.

My dislikes are the ambi-safety and the cocking serrations combined with it's slick finish on the slide. I think it would do better with the Kimber Target Match style course serrations if they're going to use a slick finish like that. The Target Match has every odd serration milled off.

[M4Guru]

I think it's the best Kimber you can buy. The one at ATS looked pretty decent for the money. Hopefully they will get by without Kimber's usual QC issues.

The sights were pretty nice, when paired with the flat-top slide they really jumped up and were highly visible.

A different finish might make give it a little more purchase, but I would have skipped those serrations myself.

[Cold Zero]

GotM4, why do you dislike the ambi safety? Is there any advantage to having the safety on just one side?

[VooDoo6Actual]

I think there are BETTER pistols out there for the money or slightly more that offer a FAR more pragmatic platform.


I agree the serrations are slippery and to me more GIMMICKY than functional.

Just because they MAY have had some input does not mean they ENDORSE it personally....

You'll notice they don't shoot w/ it either...

Unfortunately, many products are GIMMICKY rather than functional and ENDORSEMENTS are not always what they appear...

I have seen this OVER and OVER in this industry.


Caveat Emptor


YMMV...

[the1911fan]

You could always fill the SIS slide serrations with skateboard tape..cut 2 small S's and the I, might help

[SuicideHz]

Those "serrations" are downright awful.

When I first saw "sis" I was wondering "where's 'bro'?"

[RogerinTPA]

It looks like a good weapon. I remember back in the day when Kimber was the new kid on the block for producing a .45 but it was accurate and of high quality. Now days, you don't what you get when you buy a Kimber. In two mag articles, it's touted as the "Cat's Ass" in .45's. So the question remains, have they addressed the problems with their QC or just on the SIS? Is LA SWAT satisfied with their special production Kimbers????

[Robb Jensen]

GotM4, why do you dislike the ambi safety? Is there any advantage to having the safety on just one side?

I just don't like ambi safeties. I wish even my Limited gun didn't have one.

[SHIVAN]

Caveat: I use ambi safeties on my 1911's...


With the above in mind, the fact is that the thin little "teeth" that join many ambi safeties is a weak link in the system. They can get torqued and fatigue over time. I've seen a stock Kimber ambi safety that had the right hand safety on safe and the left hand safety was off safe. :(

So you get the idea.

[SuicideHz]

So are these new Kimbers the high quality they used to be? seems that if they were, they wouldn't have some gimmicky BS SIS instead of real cuts on the slide.

But I don't know. I'd like someone to tell me.

I never did like the little teeth holding the two sides of the safety together on my SA. They didn't fit together well. If I'd squeeze the two safeties together, I'd get a nice tight "click" when flipping it on and off but the levers would stick out from the frame. Just doesn't scream quality to me.

The only reason I didn't change it out for a King Arms was because my wife was left handed.

But then again, I traded it for an M&P 45 with ambi safety and night sights. Too bad it's safety seems superficial- very flimsy and not solid feeling at all.

[Buck]

The road getting a 1911 for anyone other that SWAT on the LAPD was long and bumpy… In the beginning only SWAT were issued 1911s and they were all armorer built one of a kinds… The donor guns were mostly Colt or USGI 1911A1 evidence guns that were rebuilt with new commercial parts to LAPD specs…

Eventually the effort, time, and $$$ needed to maintain and continually rebuild the hundred and fifty or so older 1911s in inventory was no longer cost effective, and after an extensive selections process Kimber won the contract to supply the City with a new factory built 1911 for SWAT…

During this time the city as a whole was issued the Beretta M9… The Special Investigations Section wanted a 45 caliber pistol duty pistol, and the pistol selected was the Smith & Wesson 645… It had the same basic controls as the Beretta, but was in 45 caliber… When the 645 went out of production SIS started using its replacement, the Smith & Wesson 4506… Alas this too went out of production and SIS still wanted a 45 caliber handgun, and they briefly issued the Glock 21, but they had significant problems with them and then decided to issue the Glock 22s while they looked for a replacement pistol that would shoot the 45 ACP +P cartridge that they issued…

After a significant amount of mental energy was expended at the staff level, it was decided to allow SIS to carry the 1911, prior to this only the 50 odd members of SWAT were allowed to carry 1911s on the LAPD… Since the City already had a contract with Kimber for 1911s, they were asked to build the pistols…

The members of SIS who are very firearm savvy contacted several well known 1911 aficionados and developed a set of specifications for the SIS 1911s… Kimber then built the guns to these specifications… One of the specs was that the pistols be marked “SIS” on the slide and the “SIS” serrations were Kimber’s idea… These were not on the original prototype gun sent the Department for evaluation, but the City did bless them prior to the guns being produced…

The City had no idea that Kimber would offer the gun to the general public, and there was a huge tempest in the teapot for the City leaders was when Kimber offered a clone of the SIS 1911 for sale to anyone wanted to fork over the $$$… They lost their collective minds thinking that a gun built to LAPDs specifications marked with the name of one of the Departments specialized units, would be in general circulation and possibly in the hands of nar-do-wells… Oh the deep pocket liability of it all…

[JLM]

After having Kimber CS tell me that I HAD to have a magazine in the gun (TLE RL with the KNOWN problematic external extractor) to get reliable extraction I decided to it was time to move down the road so to speak. I had to argue with them on the phone to get them to take the gun back and make it right.

When I queried them as to why the external extractor was dropped from their line the answer was that it was purely a 'cost' issue, and that all the reports of poor function from the externals were by 'internet gunsmiths' and were to be ignored. My response to that was "Do you consider Larry Vickers to be a gunsmith". Long pause and then 'go ahead and send us the pistol".

I'm sure their CS for agency types is better (or at least I would HOPE so), but I won't be buying another anytime soon.

You really should ask Hilton what he thinks, the last time I heard Kimber was no longer on his recommended list of 'base guns'.

YMMV of course.

To their credit they replaced the slide with an internal extractor slide, allthou it took them about 5 weeks to get it back to me.

[Federale]

It took Kimber CS over a year to finally get my TLEII to function correctly. On the phone they couldn't decide whether I was limp wristing it, over lubing it, under lubing, using bad ammunition or whether I had to get through the famous "break-in period."

And this was despite telling them that this wasn't my first 1911, and that the number of malfunctions I was getting (at least one per magazine) was likely a result of something being wrong with the extractor (it was external) as opposed to anything I was doing. But they simply wouldn't let me send the pistol back. It was always, "don't believe what you read on the internet...."

So finally I gave up and brought the pistol to Yonkers myself. I'm sure that ringing the buzzer at the gate probably surprised them. So again, I provided a written and detailed list of all the problems I was having and I mentioned that I really thought that it was an extractor issue. At this time, people were reporting that Kimber had begun replacing entire slides to get rid of the external extractor that they continued to defend so I asked about this. I was told "oh no, there's not a problem with the extractor. We'll decide what's wrong with your pistol and how to fix it."

My reply was that they could keep it until it was fixed because a malfunctioning pistol such as the one that I had just handed them was as useful as a paperweight to me. They sort of blinked.

2 months later the pistol showed up on my doorstep (no, they didn't call to say that it was coming back, UPS left a pistol on my doorstep- they didn't know). The slide was filled with metal shavings but it was a new slide. I guess maybe the "internet gunsmiths" were right. ;) My crumbled detailed list was also included, but nothing else, not even a list of services they performed on my pistol. Apparently that's a state secret.:rolleyes:

So I get to the range, fire 3 rounds and the rear sight fell off. Apparently they replaced the slide but decided to use my original sights. Finding the little swartz spring on the floor at the range was sheer luck. I didn't bother to call Kimber about it. I didn't replace the sights with meprolights though and Kimber will never see another dime of mine.

So anyway, as to the SIS, Buck's post confirms what I've thought. I thought that a lot of thought and effort went into the design of that pistol. And then Kimber took that design, passed it on to the Kimber marketiing department that decided to give it the slick finish and inexplicably make those SIS serrations that (to me) totally eliminate this as being a contender for a good basis for a serious pistol. I would also bet that LAPD thought that the SIS was going to be a full-sized duty pistol. I will bet that it was Kimber marketing that decided to make it a "family" and offer it in an array of sizes.

The real problems with Kimber is that they're pushing quantity over quality. And they're trying to build a tight pistol without spending the time or money that it takes to build a properly functioning and reliable tight pistol.

[M4Guru]

I could write a novel about Kimber's horrid CS and quality control but these guys saved me a lot of time.

I agree with all of the bad things said above.

I still think for the price the one we sold @ $1063 was a bargain for what you got, as long as it ran right and you didn't have to deal with their CS dept.

[Abraxas]

Not to go against the grain but I have have good luck thus far with my Kimber. Having said that, when I very first got it I had an issue with it, I sent it in and 5 weeks later it came back in tiptop shape and I have had zero problems with it since, save the fact it does NOT like the Wilson 10 mags, which cost me some time in a match or two. But since I have had it I have put aprx 2500 rnds and no issues

[JLM]

It took Kimber CS over a year to finally get my TLEII to function correctly. On the phone they couldn't decide whether I was limp wristing it, over lubing it, under lubing, using bad ammunition or whether I had to get through the famous "break-in period."

And this was despite telling them that this wasn't my first 1911, and that the number of malfunctions I was getting (at least one per magazine) was likely a result of something being wrong with the extractor (it was external) as opposed to anything I was doing. But they simply wouldn't let me send the pistol back. It was always, "don't believe what you read on the internet...."

So finally I gave up and brought the pistol to Yonkers myself. I'm sure that ringing the buzzer at the gate probably surprised them. So again, I provided a written and detailed list of all the problems I was having and I mentioned that I really thought that it was an extractor issue. At this time, people were reporting that Kimber had begun replacing entire slides to get rid of the external extractor that they continued to defend so I asked about this. I was told "oh no, there's not a problem with the extractor. We'll decide what's wrong with your pistol and how to fix it."

My reply was that they could keep it until it was fixed because a malfunctioning pistol such as the one that I had just handed them was as useful as a paperweight to me. They sort of blinked.

2 months later the pistol showed up on my doorstep (no, they didn't call to say that it was coming back, UPS left a pistol on my doorstep- they didn't know). The slide was filled with metal shavings but it was a new slide. I guess maybe the "internet gunsmiths" were right. ;) My crumbled detailed list was also included, but nothing else, not even a list of services they performed on my pistol. Apparently that's a state secret.:rolleyes:

So I get to the range, fire 3 rounds and the rear sight fell off. Apparently they replaced the slide but decided to use my original sights. Finding the little swartz spring on the floor at the range was sheer luck. I didn't bother to call Kimber about it. I didn't replace the sights with meprolights though and Kimber will never see another dime of mine.

So anyway, as to the SIS, Buck's post confirms what I've thought. I thought that a lot of thought and effort went into the design of that pistol. And then Kimber took that design, passed it on to the Kimber marketiing department that decided to give it the slick finish and inexplicably make those SIS serrations that (to me) totally eliminate this as being a contender for a good basis for a serious pistol. I would also bet that LAPD thought that the SIS was going to be a full-sized duty pistol. I will bet that it was Kimber marketing that decided to make it a "family" and offer it in an array of sizes.

The real problems with Kimber is that they're pushing quantity over quality. And they're trying to build a tight pistol without spending the time or money that it takes to build a properly functioning and reliable tight pistol.

Wow. And I thought I had trouble with them...holy chit.....

[the1911fan]

.....

[rhino]

So I get to the range, fire 3 rounds and the rear sight fell off.

Well, you could look at the bright side. Their failure gave you an easy and convenient way to ditch the Swartz safety parts. Usually moving a Kimber rear sight requires a hydraulic press, so they sort of unintentially did you a favor. If you chose to capitalize on it, of course.

The way I see it, in the middle of the price range between $1000 and $1500, your get a lot more gun (and less trouble) from an STI Trojan or a Springfield Armory TRP.

[Jim D]

A friend of mine got one about brought it in before dealers had them on their shelves.

I got to shoot it, it shot well...just like it should

However, he ALREADY had to send it back for finish issues...it was already wearing off. This gun has been out what, 2 or 3 months? And the finish is already wearing!

Their customer service started trying to tell him that finishes "will wear"...after he got a little loud with them and let them know just how well the finish on his SA TRP had been holding up...they agreed to send a call tag.

It's a production 1911, with gimmicky slide serrations, and a poor finish....thanks, but no thanks.

[JLM]

A call tag? I didn't even THINK to ask them for one after all the bitchin I had to do on the phone to get them to fix my gun.

What a concept, I'm surprised they did that.

[UPSguy]

No personal experience but have heard elsewhere that if you do not kiss their ass they will pay you back with a gun worse than what you sent in


I thought one of this forums goals was to share first hand knowledge, not this kind of crap.

I did not kiss any ass the 2 times I had to send both of my Kimbers in for adjustments and I got them back in 2 days. I do think from talking to them before sending them in that they tend to assume everyone iwht a problem is a first time gunowner that doesn't know anything.

[the1911fan]

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[SHIVAN]

We are getting a little off track with the "my friend" stories. Let's keep these sorts of threads to firsthand knowledge.

That means, your gun and Kimber's QC and CS. Or you are a qualified smith and you dealt with a customer's gun and Kimber's QC and CS.

"My friend" or "my buddy" are not going to fly past this post...

Thanks.

[Abraxas]

Wow, all of this makes me wonder how I was able to get a decent gun from them.

[the1911fan]

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