Anyone Used Their Side Chargers in Classes?

[Will_Power]

Hey all,

I'd like to hear from any of you who own a side charging upper (ASA, LAR Grizzly, etc) and have taken your firearm to a class of some sort or have otherwise pushed it hard.

The "you'll get dirt and grime all in the guts of your rifle and jam!" argument gets rolled out with regularity, and it doesn't seem to be without merits, but I'd like to hear from the guys with actual experience.

How did your rifles hold up? Did you actually jam up with crap in and around the bolt, or did things function acceptably?

[RogerinTPA]

I really don't see the point in this gimmick device. I've read about one but have never seen one in any carbine class. As a user on anything mechanical, you must make a constant effort to take care of your weapon in any environment. That means keeping the BCG properly lubed, cleaning it as necessary, and keeping the dust cover closed when not in use or when the fight ends. Some people have to be constantly reminded to keep the dust cover closed. Keep it open in dusty or loose dirt environments and guess what? Eventually the weapon stops working. It's that simple. It is a training issue, not a gimmick issue. Don't underestimate the power of stupid.

[Will_Power]

I really don't see the point in this gimmick device. I've read about one but have never seen one in any carbine class. As a user on anything mechanical, you must make a constant effort to take care of your weapon in any environment. That means keeping the BCG properly lubed, cleaning it as necessary, and keeping the dust cover closed when not in use or when the fight ends. Some people have to be constantly reminded to keep the dust cover closed. Keep it open in dusty or loose dirt environments and guess what? Eventually the weapon stops working. It's that simple. It is a training issue, not a gimmick issue. Don't underestimate the power of stupid.

So... no.

Thanks.

[RogerinTPA]

So... no.

Thanks.

And no this isn't TOS. You may want to pose your question over there.

[Will_Power]

And no this isn't TOS. You may want to pose your question over there.

Golly gee, thanks for clearing that up for me.

Side chargers seem like they would have some merit in precision shooting. Yet, like everybody else, I've got questions and concerns to how they would hold up in practical use if someone was to take a class or go hunting through the mud and the muck.

But, no one appears to have any empirical evidence one way or the other. It's all chest-beating circle jerking.

That's why I'm asking here (as well as TOS), as there's generally a higher percentage of guys who have valuable experience down range or in training.

Or maybe I should just go toss a side charger on my SBR .300 BLK with the grip pod, 3-9x, and 45 degree backup sights and call it a day.

[RogerinTPA]

Use the orange search feature.

https://www.m4carbine.net/gtsearch.php?cx=003496919632624929056%3Adhiwgm0hbaa&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=UTF-8&q=Side+charging+ARs+&sa=Search&siteurl=www.m4carbine.net%2Fsearch.php#1234

[Stickman]

Use the orange search feature.

https://www.m4carbine.net/gtsearch.php?cx=003496919632624929056%3Adhiwgm0hbaa&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=UTF-8&q=Side+charging+ARs+&sa=Search&siteurl=www.m4carbine.net%2Fsearch.php#1234


Which doesn't seem to work very well for most people....


Side chargers are an interesting beast, and the largest question should come down to those people who have seen actual issues. The FAL, AK, SCAR, M14, M1 and plenty of other weapons have shown a side charging weapon can be plenty functional and effective.

[justin_247]

I think the side charger from JP is a very interesting design. I would like to know how well it performs, too.

[MistWolf]

Golly gee, thanks for clearing that up for me.

Side chargers seem like they would have some merit in precision shooting. Yet, like everybody else, I've got questions and concerns to how they would hold up in practical use if someone was to take a class or go hunting through the mud and the muck.

But, no one appears to have any empirical evidence one way or the other. It's all chest-beating circle jerking.

That's why I'm asking here (as well as TOS), as there's generally a higher percentage of guys who have valuable experience down range or in training.

Or maybe I should just go toss a side charger on my SBR .300 BLK with the grip pod, 3-9x, and 45 degree backup sights and call it a day.

Maybe you should. After all, if you really want to know, go try it out. Go shoot the rifle.

There's little empirical data because not many here want a side charger. I've looked at them myself because I like the idea and a folding, non-reciprocating charging handle on the FAL works very well. However, you have to put out an exorbitant amount of money for that type of upper for an AR.

The other type of side charger I looked at features a bolt threaded into the side of the BCG. After studying it, I've come to the conclusion that it complicates dis-assembly, looks fragile and is likely to keep loosening up. I also do not want a charging handle on an AR that is reciporcating. I also have a concern that the larger ejection port will decrease the stiffness of the upper (check the upper flex sticky for more information). I don't see how they can offer any advantage over the standard AR charging handle on a precision rifle.

I do find the standard AR charging handle to be a bit awkward, especially on my new S&W M&P-10 with it's stiffer action spring. But the disadvantages of the side charger (cost, potential for causing malfunctions, loss of receiver rigidity) outweigh the gain. For me, installing a BCM Gunfighter CH is a more practical solution

Don't let this stop you from trying a side charger upper. Run it hard and let us know how it works. Worse that could happen is you get to thumb your nose and say "Told ya!"

[T2C]

I have always thought there should be two major changes made to the AR rifle.

1) The sight plane should be 1-1/4" lower to reduce the amount of sight error induced by canting the rifle. The sight plane would still be 3/16" higher than the M-14 or AK-47 to accommodate wearing a helmet and gas mask.

2) A side charging handle would make it easier to maintain your check weld when cycling the bolt.

Take your rifle to a high round count course and let us know how it performs.

[RogerinTPA]

Change in some areas, can be a good thing. The problem is vetting the reliability and purpose in it's use with the M16FOW. Since the platform wasn't designed with that feature in mind, or thoroughly tested as other known platforms specifically designed for it, nothing is standardized. Similar to the slap on piston kits or various piston AR manufacturers of lesser quality. You don't know what you're getting and doesn't improve the overall design in any significant way. If it did, the military as well as Colt, DD, KAC and other quality manufacturers would have made the leap to side charging handles on the M16FOW by now, since it's been around for almost 50 years. It becomes a solution in search of a problem. Hence the reason I deemed it a gimmick. If a side charging handle is a desired feature, I'd stick to the proven platforms for which it was designed for, AK, FN SCAR, FAL, etc...

[Peshawar]

I'm eyebanging that ARAK upper from Faxon. Been seeing more pics of it lately, and it seems the company is confident enough to put there stuff out for evaluation. Looking forward to hearing more about them.

[decodeddiesel]

I still don't see what is wrong with the standard good old charging handle. :confused:

I agree with Roger. Get a SCAR if you want a side charger.

[justin_247]

Maybe you should. After all, if you really want to know, go try it out. Go shoot the rifle.

There's little empirical data because not many here want a side charger. I've looked at them myself because I like the idea and a folding, non-reciprocating charging handle on the FAL works very well. However, you have to put out an exorbitant amount of money for that type of upper for an AR.

The other type of side charger I looked at features a bolt threaded into the side of the BCG. After studying it, I've come to the conclusion that it complicates dis-assembly, looks fragile and is likely to keep loosening up. I also do not want a charging handle on an AR that is reciporcating. I also have a concern that the larger ejection port will decrease the stiffness of the upper (check the upper flex sticky for more information). I don't see how they can offer any advantage over the standard AR charging handle on a precision rifle.

I do find the standard AR charging handle to be a bit awkward, especially on my new S&W M&P-10 with it's stiffer action spring. But the disadvantages of the side charger (cost, potential for causing malfunctions, loss of receiver rigidity) outweigh the gain. For me, installing a BCM Gunfighter CH is a more practical solution

Don't let this stop you from trying a side charger upper. Run it hard and let us know how it works. Worse that could happen is you get to thumb your nose and say "Told ya!"

The JP system uses a non-reciprocating, folding side-charging handle.

[MistWolf]

Interesting. I'll have to take a look at that

[justin_247]

Interesting. I'll have to take a look at that

Here you go:
http://www.jprifles.com/1.2.1_PSC_11.php

[Moltke]

It doesn't look to me like it would make it more accurate, lighter, more reliable, or change anything significant that would be an enhancement...

Would it be better for clearing jams? Generally easier to operate the gun?

What is the draw here? Why do people care about this, just because it's new and different?

[The_Hammer_Man]

I personally like the ASA side charging upper for SBResque type carbines due to the fact that you can go "nose to rear sight" and NEVER move your head even when clearing jams.

And yes, me and my silly side charging carbine go to classes at least 2-3 times a summer. Current round count on that particular rifle is about 5k with only mag related malfunctions so far.

edited to add: Only drawback, and a small one, is that it's a few ounces heavier than a standard M4 receiver.

[Moltke]

I personally like the ASA side charging upper for SBResque type carbines due to the fact that you can go "nose to rear sight" and NEVER move your head even when clearing jams.

And yes, me and my silly side charging carbine go to classes at least 2-3 times a summer. Current round count on that particular rifle is about 5k with only mag related malfunctions so far.

edited to add: Only drawback, and a small one, is that it's a few ounces heavier than a standard M4 receiver.

Hi Mr Defensive. ;)

What is an SBResque carbine?

Nose to rear sight, do you shoot mostly irons?

Not taking your head away during a jam? OK... What jam would you want to keep a cheekweld for? I can see doing a quick tap/rack and if that gets the gun back into the fight then great but anything other than that and you're going to WANT to look and identify your stoppage so you can fix the problem.