View Full Version : Wanting A DA/SA Pistol To Train With
Father of 3
07-09-13, 20:22
I'm looking for a DA/SA pistol to do some training/practicing on so as to familiarize myself with that type of trigger. I have only really put time in on striker fired consistent triggers and would like to expand my horizons. Now I much prefer a consistent pull but would like to expand my training a little bit.
I know HK's are sweet and if I move to a DA/SA pistol for permanent carry I will pick up a P30 or HK45c. However, I cannot justify at this time spending upwards of 1K on a pistol to just train/practice with and not use as my EDC or possibly end up dumping altogether. My EDC will remain a Glock for the time being.
So I'm looking at staying around $600 or less for getting a decent pistol to train DA to SA transitions and possibly take a class. I want something that's going to be reliable. So far I'm considering the following:
Beretta 92
Beretta PX4 FS or Compact
Sig SP 2022
CZ P-07 (thanks to the link put up to Mike Pannone's review)
CZ 75 P-01
I realize a Sig Certified Pre-owned would be the way to go, however I'm having trouble finding one and I'm leery about buying something off the internet, especially if its used. '
Please advise.
GrandPooba
07-09-13, 20:43
Buy a Beretta 92. Buy a shitload of mags (they are like $15). Put in a -D mainspring. Enjoy.
Reigning USPSA production national champ shot a 92 for a reason. They are dead accurate, reliable, and very shootable as long as you train.
Buy a Beretta 92. Buy a shitload of mags (they are like $15). Put in a -D mainspring. Enjoy.
Reigning USPSA production national champ shot a 92 for a reason. They are dead accurate, reliable, and very shootable as long as you train.
Beat me to it. Have a 92SB I picked up for $300 a couple years back, very nice shooting handguns and I do love mine. An M9A1 or 92A1 is on my list of guns to get. I don't feel you can go wrong with one.
Reigning USPSA production national champ shot a 92 for a reason. They are dead accurate, reliable, and very shootable as long as you train.
While your description of the gun is accurate, Ben shoots (or shot, he's switched to a Stock II now) because that's the gun he had at the time and he had too much invested in the platform over the years to switch without a good reason to.
I would go with the HK P30 or an HK USPc 9mm. I have the latter and it has been flawless for over 2K rounds. Very easy to clean too.
I would consider the following pistols all in 9mm simply for the largest amount of shooting time because of the cost of ammunition.
In no particular order:
SIG 226
Smith and Wesson 5906/ 3rd Generation autos
Beretta 92
Taurus PT-92
HK-USP Full Size
If you are looking to shoot alot of rounds, I would lean towards the USP because of the durability and lower maintenance costs.
Otherwise, my first all around choice is the SIG 226. Although, all are quite serviceable. The best bang for you buck would be the Smith and Wesson. The 3rd Generation S&Ws are solid guns.
p.s. You can find some excellent guns on Gunbroker type websites, you just have to do your homework, be patient, and only deal with reputable sellers.
I have a lot of trigger time with the Beretta 92FS and it is not a bad pistol, but it would not be my first choice. I would vote for the CZ-75. I like the ergonomics of the CZ better than the 92FS. The CZ is reasonably priced, durable and has decent accuracy.
Really its a tossup. I would suggest an SP-01 over a standard 75... I think they are aluminum framed. Both cz's and the 92s are known for good accuracy.
cz
-thinner
-better safety (if you go that route, if not, no safety which is better if you wanna learn DA, and you dont have to worry about inadvertently engaging the safety).
-easy to smooth up trigger (never messed with a 92 trigger, or even looked at one).
-watch the slidestop
Beretta
-smooth
-tons of aftermarket support
-cheaper mags(slightly)
-smooth
-watch the locking block after 15k rounds IIRC.
you could probably just pick which one looks better or is cheaper, both should last long enough to be of service to your grand-kids.
warpedcamshaft
07-09-13, 23:03
I'm looking for a DA/SA pistol to do some training/practicing on so as to familiarize myself with that type of trigger. I have only really put time in on striker fired consistent triggers and would like to expand my horizons. Now I much prefer a consistent pull but would like to expand my training a little bit.
I know HK's are sweet and if I move to a DA/SA pistol for permanent carry I will pick up a P30 or HK45c. However, I cannot justify at this time spending upwards of 1K on a pistol to just train/practice with and not use as my EDC or possibly end up dumping altogether. My EDC will remain a Glock for the time being.
So I'm looking at staying around $600 or less for getting a decent pistol to train DA to SA transitions and possibly take a class. I want something that's going to be reliable. So far I'm considering the following:
Beretta 92
Beretta PX4 FS or Compact
Sig SP 2022
CZ P-07 (thanks to the link put up to Mike Pannone's review)
CZ 75 P-01
I realize a Sig Certified Pre-owned would be the way to go, however I'm having trouble finding one and I'm leery about buying something off the internet, especially if its used. '
Please advise.
Out of your list, Beretta 92 series pistols are the most common in US law enforcement and military. Being familiar with a Beretta could be a useful trait depending on what you do, and what your plans are from a training/career standpoint.
If it is just a fun plinker... Just choose whichever one tickles your fancy if you get a chance to try/rent a few...
CZ75 or P01
If you get the P01 you could easily adapt that to a carry piece. Mine is easy to carry in a T shirt in a Crossbreed Supertuck.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp56/2005gixxer600/54C4DD23-0899-41F8-B618-B7AE92E477F1-3004-00000477F31DADD1.jpg
Buy the FNP, FNX 45 pistol. You can get it for under $700. It is the main competitor to the HK45. It, like the HK45 was built to compete to be the new sidearm for the military. then they pulled the solicitation. Google and read, it's the best kept secret in the handgun world.
It's large, same size as HK45. Very large. But it shoots great. Has a better trigger than the HK and holds 14/15 rounds of 45!
It may become your favorite gun.
Another vote for Beretta 92FS with D mainspring. This is perhaps the best DA/SA trigger on the market without a Bruce Grey level makeover (the Sig SRT is a very close second place). the D mainspring is very easy to install with multiple sets of instructions on YouTube. They can be had for under $600 on CDNN.
If the whole point is training familiarization with that type of trigger, I'd echo what so many others are suggesting and get the beretta. Use the most common quality tool. Why spend more on a sig or an hk if it's not going to be your main pistol platform?
Psalms144.1
07-10-13, 07:20
Of those you listed, I'd opt for the 92, for all the good reasons others have listed. The down sides to the 92 are (a) grip size, which is on the largish size, (b) a horribly placed and difficult to use safety/decocker, and (c) the aforementioned locking block issues. One of my old teams actually broke the safety levers on every one of our M9s after a year of HARD training, but I think that was a pretty rare issue.
Having said all that, I'd actually spend the time and energy looking for a good used Sig P226 over any of your choices. The Sig's trigger is typically pretty good out of the box, and wears in very nicely, and they'll match or surpass the accuracy of any of the others on your list.
Regards,
Kevin
Buy a Beretta 92. Buy a shitload of mags (they are like $15). Put in a -D mainspring. Enjoy.
Reigning USPSA production national champ shot a 92 for a reason. They are dead accurate, reliable, and very shootable as long as you train.
Yes - go with this. With a D spring, the DA is down to around 8.5 lbs. With 2-3k rounds thru the gun, it will be down to just over 8lbs.
I really don't mind shooting DA with my main 92FS... The DA pull is sweet
OP, is there something wrong with your Glock? What makes you want to deviate from it?
Father of 3
07-10-13, 10:17
Hey guys thanks for the reply's so far. I am surprised to see that the Beretta 92 is so strongly recommended. I assumed it was the red head stepchild due to the litany of complaints I've read about, all of which are on the internet :rolleyes:
I'm not looking to replace my Glock's. I'm simply wanting to get some trigger time in on a DA/SA platform so I am familiar with it. If I found myself in a situation and ended up with a gun with a DA/SA trigger, I don't want to be on a learning curve and have my life depending on it.
Keep the recommendations coming guys.
I think out of the choices you have the Beretta is probably the best option. You could probably score a used Sig 226 or 220 within your budget if you look hard enough, and that would be my choice for a DA/SA pistol.
Also, I realize that people love their Hk stuff on here, but I owned a P30L and it had the worst trigger on a pistol I've ever shot bar none. I'd rather buy a S&W Sigma than that thing.
I would also go with the 92FS. I've got one with 15,500 rounds through it. Very solid gun.
Other than that I would go with a Sig 226 or 229, but those will jump you up a price tier.
Then of course, HK... but those come with HK prices which has already been touched upon. The USP line isn't too bad and similar to the Sig in pricing...
So, for the $600 range, 92FS is a solid choice. I think the M9 version comes with three 17 round mags, but don't quote me on that. Hell, a local place has (had of their last flyer a few weeks ago anyway) the plain-Jane 92FS for $499.
I had the chance to shoot one of Mikes CZ P07 this past weekend and was really impressed. The stock DA pull is lighter than other stock DA triggers I've tried (sig, beretta, CZ Shadow). It's definitely a viable option for carrying as its only a little bit larger than a G19.
GrandPooba
07-10-13, 11:14
Hey guys thanks for the reply's so far. I am surprised to see that the Beretta 92 is so strongly recommended. I assumed it was the red head stepchild due to the litany of complaints I've read about, all of which are on the internet :rolleyes:
I'm not looking to replace my Glock's. I'm simply wanting to get some trigger time in on a DA/SA platform so I am familiar with it. If I found myself in a situation and ended up with a gun with a DA/SA trigger, I don't want to be on a learning curve and have my life depending on it.
Keep the recommendations coming guys.
Most complaints stem from the fact that the US military stupidly bought crappy aftermarket mags. Factory and Mec-Gar mags don't have this problem. Also, most people are apparently terrified of lubing their guns. The 92, like the AR15, needs lube to run.
I think you'd be surprised how many top shooters out there cut their teeth on a 92.
I'm not saying its the perfect gun, but it's a surprisingly good one. It is not as durable as the modern polymer wonder pistols. Fewer sight options and heavy as well. Requires more training to mitigate the slide mounted safety (unless you buy a 92G which is a decocker only version).
I vote for the Beretta M92A1 just for the options of the removable front sight and light rail. I actually plan to get one myself once the funds permit it...
http://www.berettausa.com/products/model-92a1/
Plumber237
07-10-13, 13:29
Another vote for the Beretta 92. The only reason that I got rid of my old one was it didn't have a rail for a light or replaceable sights without sending it off for machining. Either night sights or a light is a requirement for an HD gun for me. Granted this was before the 92a1's came out which have both, and 18 round mags...I still miss my old Beretta. As other people have stated, reliable, good trigger as far as DA/SA goes, and dirty accurate.
This cured me of the striker fired coma I'd been in for too long.
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/trixiebud/FNX45_zps98bd8fd8.jpg
The FNX45 is king , however, FN does make it in 9mm and .40
If you wanted smaller.
CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow, everything else pales in comparison in every aspect
SmokinSigs357
07-10-13, 19:36
Get a used SIG P226...you'll love it!
The FNX line blows all other suggestions away. The HK45 feels better in my hand, but I shoot the FN better.... plus you can get them for well under $700 if you look around.
Gutshot John
07-11-13, 08:38
Of the guns on your list, the P-07 is what I would go for especially if you're looking for the best DA/SA value you can find.
To back up I'm very familiar with the 92, the CZ-75/P-01, and the Sig. The only one I'm not familiar with is the Beretta PX. Of the guns not on your list, I've shot the FN and HK. Neither of which meets your pricepoint, and both have mediocre to outright horrible triggers. I'll never understand what people see in the FNX. I mean it's ok, but it's nothing special.
First the P-07 DA trigger is the best I've ever felt on ANY GUN right out of the box. This includes the guns on your list and subsequent recommendations. A well broken-in 92 comes in second best DA, and the 75/P-01. It's a consistent 10lbs with nice smooth takeup. I was actually blown away.
I wasn't as much a fan of the SA trigger, but being much more used to the M&P/Glock, I found I had trouble with the rhythm switching from DA to SA. There was a bit too much takeup so by the time you got to the break point it went its own way. This is a problem with the shooter, not the gun.
Second the accuracy is outstanding, with measured groups at 1.5-1.75 at 25 yards using Speer Lawman and Fiocci respectively.
Third it's a dead simple gun, it's a lot like a Glock in its simplicity, about the toughtest thing was switching over the mag release. Another nice advantage is that you can (in 5 minutes using a punch) switch from a traditional cocked/locked safety to a decocker. I opted for the decocker since the DA is so sweet and I still have to actively think about putting the safety on and off when using a pistol.
Magazine costs are about the same as M&P mags and for about the same height you get more bullets than the P-01. The second downside to the P-07 is that the slide is pretty thick. but they do a cool chamfer job on the slide so it doesn't weigh that much more.
That said it's hard to recommend as a CCW pistol as there are slimmer options out there (however it's comparable in feel to the FNH or HK). I'm not saying it's the best pistol out there (I carry M&Ps and prefer that gun), but for the need/price you spelled out, and the guns you mentioned, I can enthusiastically recommend it.
As a range/practice piece for very little coin, you'd be very hard pressed to beat the P-07. It will easily perform as well as the guns mentioned that cost 300-400 more.
Walther P99 AS or This less expensive clone (http://www.magnumresearch.com/Firearms/Magnum-Research-MR9-Eagle-15-Round.asp)
Get a used SIG P226...you'll love it!
My vote too.
beschatten
07-11-13, 17:44
A used Sig 226 or a CZ. Whichever you can find first.
Gutshot John
07-11-13, 17:51
The OP did a pretty good job of spelling out his list, his requirements, and his price range.
I'm not sure why people persist in thinking they know better.
Used European made Sigs are nice guns, but nothing qualitatively better. They're also pretty rare, and outside of his pricepoint.
Here's an idea...How about answering the question he asked?
A used Sig 226 or a new SP2022. The 2022 is treated as the step child of the Sig family, but the people I know that have one love it.
Gutshot John
07-11-13, 19:23
The 2022 is treated as the step child of the Sig family, but the people I know that have one love it.
Totally agree, the 2022 is the most under-appreciated member of the sig family. It's the only Sig I've kept.
It was also a very radical design, first poly gun with interchangeable backstraps among other reasons.
anachronism
07-11-13, 20:14
I have a Beretta PX9. We're still getting used to each other. The thing that strikes me the most about these guns is the lack of aftermarket upgrades for them, and it seems that all holsters are special order only. My PX9 came with a notice that tells me to only use 124 gr & heavier ammo. I of course tried 115 gr after break-in, and it worked okay but the gun felt sluggish somehow. Anyway, if I followed directions, everything worked perfectly. As noted with the 92s, buy quality mags, the cheap ones are awful. I'm picking up factory commercial mags as funds permit. The PX series use the same mags as the 92s, as long as you stay in caliber of course.
I just picked up a used sig 226 for $650 at a local Cabelas. It is a West German made one and is great condition. I have only put about a thousand rounds through it, and it has been flawless. Also has a great trigger. I also have a sig 239 that I have had for several years and have many more down the tube. It has also been flawless.
I have not had any trigger time on the others, so I can't say how they compare
Crow Hunter
07-11-13, 21:34
Beretta 92.
If they would make one the size of a G19 with a safety/decocker on the frame (Like a Taurus) I would dump all my Glocks for one.
My first love in auto pistols was the Beretta 92 series.
Fun to shoot, accurate, attractive and durable.
The only thing I don't like about them is the size.
If I didn't have 5 of them along with Armorer certification, enough parts to completely rebuild on except for the frame/barrel AND 66+ magazines:eek:, I probably would have already contemplated getting a Beretta 92 Compact instead of my G19s.:D
morbidbattlecry
07-12-13, 20:38
I would say a 92a1. They are still decently priced. And i believe you can change the sights on that model. And i would get that Decocker only mod done as well if you had the cash(about 180 dollers).
The best DA/SA gun hands down is the FNH FNX-9. You can find them for around $550 with white dot sights. Best factory trigger DA/SA trigger you'll find.
The best DA/SA gun hands down is the FNH FNX-9. You can find them for around $550 with white dot sights. Best factory trigger DA/SA trigger you'll find.
FINALLY some love for the FNX.
I have a buddy who pretty much owns every mainstream pistol there is. And the FNX is the one I shoot best.
I vote for a CZ of some kind. The 75/P-01/P-07 all fit in your price range, they're all exceptionally accurate, parts are easy to get, they're very reliable, and if you're a tinkerer there's a lot you can do to make them even better than they are out of the box.
FINALLY some love for the FNX.
I have a buddy who pretty much owns every mainstream pistol there is. And the FNX is the one I shoot best.
The only downside of the FNX line is that there is very little aftermarket support, but I hypothesize that is because it doesn't need any changes. Sights are available from most major manufacturers. The FNX has a decocker, but unlike others, when you put the gun on safety it doesn't decock the pistol. You can carry it cocked and locked like a 1911. I always carried it in Condition 2, with safety off. There is no trigger safety, per se, except the DA and your finger. You could carry it in Condition 0, but I wouldn't recommend it. The second stage of the double action is extremely short, and as I mentioned, there's no trigger safety.
The DA trigger pull is extremely smooth, and if you manipulate it as you would a two stage trigger, the first pull is just as accurate as the sequential pulls. Like other DA/SA guns, if you start hammer down on a chambered round, the first pull is DA, and every shot after is a very short and sweet SA. The trigger reset is only about 1/8"-3/16", and it is tactile.
The barrel of the FNX is cold hammer forged, and only 4" long, so the overall slide length is nearly identical to a G19. The grip is the same height as a G17. It is a very easy gun to conceal, and tucks up close to your waist in a good OWB holster for OC. I haven't been able to find mag extensions or magwells if you're looking for a game gun, but I haven't searched hard either, as I have dedicated game guns.
For the money, you'd be hard-pressed to find a more accurate, reliable, and aesthetically appealing sidearm than the FNX. I hope to add a FNX-45 to my collection soon. 15rd capacity in .45acp!
get the Sig SP2022, you will never have to look back.
richiecotite
07-28-13, 19:35
Ive been very happy with my FNP 9's. They can be found for less than 450, as much support as the fnx, just the older model version
Magic_Salad0892
07-28-13, 19:47
FNX is the best DA/SA auto pistol currently made. No contest.
DreadPirateMoyer
07-28-13, 21:58
FNX is the best DA/SA auto pistol currently made. No contest.
I've owned or shot extensively (1,000+ rounds) all of the guns discussed in this thread except the CZs, and I can confidently say this is correct. FNX 9, hands down.
Though I only carry 92s these days since they make such good suppressor hosts. :)
decodeddiesel
07-28-13, 22:07
CZ75BD is a hell of a pistol, and a lot of fun. Especially if you can find a vintage one with "low miles".
I would vote for an M9/92FS or even a West German Sig P220 or P226.
I don't have any experience with the FNX, but I am eager to try one.
I have an M9 that I ccw all the time and to dog pile on what others have said it's good,the trigger bothers some but I don't care since the only reason I see for the DA pull is for "too close get the hell OFF me!!"
If I have to I can get the first DA shot close enough to the rest to work,if I want accurate fire I thumb the hammer back...just like I'd do with a revolver.
Couple things I can add though:
First the factory grips are a bit soft and slick plus a tad thick,spend seventy five bucks and get some VZ grips makes it less slick,thinner,and is worlds tougher then the ones that come on it.
Next if you shoot a 92 enough you realize that rather then grabbing the slide serrations you wrap your left index finger under the safety and place you thumb over it on the other side-keeps the safety off and actually gives you a better grip on the slide.
Also the 92 doesn't really have any recoil,seriously it just jumps a little.
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