View Full Version : Going Back to the Basics
That's right, going back to the basics. This thread isn't to show off my new rifle, but to show newer members they can have a good carbine for not much money. I'm a civilian, no military background. By no means do I claim to be a teir one operator or AR15 expert. I don't own a kit ( PC, batman belt, etc ) and you'll commonly see me pulling mags from my pockets for reloads.
http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s424/Rmillerm4/4e4a0f88-df4f-434e-ae40-8398b3cc7bc6_zps8f3ef24a.jpg
I first got into AR15's because I thought they were cool. After spending some time on here, I realized an AR15 wasn't a on AR15. I also realized their value as an HD weapon.
I promptly sold my DPMS and built my own, constantly trying to change it to fit every roll. Bad idea. Changing things just to change things (remember skill>gear). The money I was sinking into it was unexceptable. So it was time to pull my head out of my A$$ and concentrate on the HD roll. Leaves me with what I have now, and what I plan to do eventually. The main theme was VALUE for the money. Some may agree with what I went with and some may not.
Upper-
- BCM 14.5" barrel with a pinned A2X done by BCM. FSB. Midlength gas system (.076 port). Stock handguards. $400 from here on EE.
- BCM BCG $165 off BCM
- BCM Gunfighter Charging Handle. Small Latch. $45 off BCM
- Daniel Defense A1.5 fixed rear sight. $60 off the EE here.
Total of $670.00 on the upper.
I choose the BCM 14.5" upper because of the shorter length and its the shortest I can go without a tax stamp. Believe it or not it makes a difference. Both balance and maneuvering. For a muzzle device the A2 doesn't do a bad job at flash supression and is cheap. Won't hit your friends with side blast like with a comp or brake either. I choose the midlength gas for lower recoil impulse and longer life on parts. Always a fan of fixed sights. No need to flip them into action. They are ther ready to roll. There's love for the BCM gunfighter. Went with the small latch to avoid it hanging up on everything. Finally I will plan to stick with handguards that fit in the stock delta ring setup. For most of the shooting that I engage in (100yds or less) and especially a home defense roll, stock handguards or MOE handguards do everything a free float will do for less lettuce.
Lower:
- LRB Lower Reciever $80
- LMT LPK $80
- ALG QMS Trigger $45
- BCM Gunfighter MOD 1 Grip $30
- Vltor A5 with A5H0 buffer $115
- Vltor IMOD $80
Total of $400 on Lower.
The LRB is a solid lower and haven't had a bit of trouble out of it. PMags and USGI mags fall free no problem. The LMT LPK is great to say the least. I can tell a difference between it and alot of the commercially available LPK's. The QMS trigger is one of the best out of the box mil-spec triggers out there. For a defensive carbine there probably isn't a better trigger for the money. The BCM mod 1 grip offers a better angle for my shooting style (no chicken wings here!). Less strain on the wrist vs the magpul and stock A2 grips. I added the Vltor A5 and a green springco spring for a reliability aspect. It's proven. The IMOD fits me well and offers a great cheek weld.
- Aimpoint Pro $350 ( sold orig mount for $40)
- ADM GI mount $45
- VCAS Sling $45
I also added a Vicker BFG VCAS sling and an Aimpoint PRO in a ADM GI mount. Aimpoints are a standard in toughness on their own in the RDS world. Not to mention I can leave the optic on for years.... great battey life goes a long way on a HD weapon. I modded the original PRO mount (removed that horrendous knob), and it worked quite well but I missed a 1/3 lower cowitness and found a steal on an older ADM mount. Rock solid. The VCAS is just attached to the rifle via the stock sling loop and sling slot in the buttstock. Straight forward attachment. No fancy QD's or noisy hooks.
My plans for the future is to add a light. The Magpul MOE handguards are also in the works. Them coupled with a MOE scout light mount and Surefire M600 scout light should offer a good solution to my lighting situation. More updates to come!
Best photo of it I have so far:
http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s424/Rmillerm4/012_zps07c26cb3.jpg
Thats $1070 for the base carbine.
$1,510 for the package as a whole. Optic and all.
How much did it set you back? At first glance the upper specs you have set you back about $850. Add $300 for the lower components and you've hit the price range for a Colt.
All going on current prices of course. :smile:
How much did it set you back? At first glance the upper specs you have set you back about $850. Add $300 for the lower components and you've hit the price range for a Colt.
All going on current prices of course. :smile:
I edited the post to include a price list. There are 3 things my rifle does over the colt 6920. Midlength gas, shorter barrel, and the Vltor A5 system+ IMOD stock. For the 6920 to shoot as smooth as mine, I'd have to add an H2 or H3 buffer.
Very nicely done. If you forsake going with a free float rail and go with standard or even MOE handguards building a reasonably priced AR is not that hard. I have an older Bushmaster that I pulled all the rails, and other things off of and set it back to the basics last year as a back up/training/new shooter's rifle, running it similar to yours, DD rear, aimpoint, ect. Except that I also have a TLR1 mounted on a IWC mount. Makes a good platform to show that you don't need everything and the kitchen sink to be able to shoot and that it is the shooter not the rifle that preforms.
My next build however...
BRAVO!
Good for you, and I bet it runs like a raped ape.
OUTSTANDING, YOUNG MAN!
Thank you. I thought the 16" middy was a good shooter until I shot this upper. It runs great even on PMC Bronze. Took some playing with buffer weight to get 100% bolt lock back. We're good now.
BRAVO!
Good for you, and I bet it runs like a raped ape.
OUTSTANDING, YOUNG MAN!
I went with the same upper and an overall very similar setup and love it. I did get the gunfighter comp, though I wish I'd stuck with an A2.
Only thing I can add would be to look into IWC light mounts when you're ready. They're pretty awesome for the price.
I owned a battle comp and a friend who had some sort of god awful brake. I've had both shot next to me, that's why I decided to stick with an A2. :eek:
I looked into the IWC scout mount, but for the price of their mount I could buy the moe handguards and their scout mount. I agree with Jaxman7 on the ramp being a nice feature and for the money the setup is hard to beat.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=130884&highlight=Scout
I went with the same upper and an overall very similar setup and love it. I did get the gunfighter comp, though I wish I'd stuck with an A2.
Only thing I can add would be to look into IWC light mounts when you're ready. They're pretty awesome for the price.
I did get the gunfighter comp, though I wish I'd stuck with an A2.
Why's that?
Why's that?
Ever had a comp fired close to you?
Ever had a comp fired close to you?
Yes, but not the BCM or even BC, both of which are supposed to be the most tame in that regard.
I like it... but I'd hardly call that "basic". It's lacking a light is all... but the other than the handguard, it's fairly customized.
SpankMonkey
07-10-13, 14:20
Excellent post OP. Glad to see someone getting a little old school.
Why's that?
Ever had a comp fired close to you?
This.
It's not that bad as comps go, but by trying to go with a mild, jack of all trades comp, I accomplished very little recoil reduction in return for an ear pounding when shooting under a canopy or inside of a bus/vehicle/room.
I wanted to try one & I did. I don't hate it, I just wouldn't get one again, they're not for me.
They are. But there is still concussion. Forget not having earpro.
I've used the BC and have a hard time justifying $120 vs $5 for an A2.
Yes, but not the BCM or even BC, both of which are supposed to be the most tame in that regard.
I like it... but I'd hardly call that "basic". It's lacking a light is all... but the other than the handguard, it's fairly customized.
Meh, it's more basic than a hipster carbine :D I think alot of new shooters (I myself did) get too caught up into adding rails and gizmos instead of buying ammo and mags, shooting it, and finding out what they want out of their carbine.
I have plans to add a scout light. I have a M600 on the way I traded a used x300 for.
This.
It's not that bad as comps go, but by trying to go with a mild, jack of all trades comp, I accomplished very little recoil reduction in return for an ear pounding when shooting under a canopy or inside of a bus/vehicle/room.
I wanted to try one & I did. I don't hate it, I just wouldn't get one again, they're not for me.
How could I forget shooting enclosed or under my range's canopy. Rattles the brain a little. Best place to be is behind the carbine.
Meh, it's more basic than a hipster carbine
It's definitely a cure for Hipster syndrome. ;)
Best thing I did was sell my Vltor MUR/Centurion CMR upper and buy this upper. I had enough left to buy a case of PMC bronze off a buddy.
Now to find some professional training.
I edited the post to include a price list. There are 3 things my rifle does over the colt 6920. Midlength gas, shorter barrel, and the Vltor A5 system+ IMOD stock. For the 6920 to shoot as smooth as mine, I'd have to add an H2 or H3 buffer.
Gotcha, though I thought the 6920 already came with an H2?
Gotcha, though I thought the 6920 already came with an H2?
I do believe they come with an H buffer
SeriousStudent
07-10-13, 22:07
I'll echo Sinister's remarks. It's a logical analysis of needs and gear, and a very good post. I wish more "here's my carbine" posts looked like yours, it would be quite useful to our new members. I appreciate the time you took with yours.
I like that DD rear, have it on a pair of my own carbines. You can save just a little more money in the future, and get a light without breaking the bank. I bet a $100 could get you a solid mount and a useful light.
And you are spot on, a 6920 comes from the factory with an H buffer.
Depending on where you are located, we all might be able to help with a local training class.
Keep up the good work!
I appreciate the positive comments.
I'm in IL and quality training is hard to come by. There is one group, but they are quite pricey. I'm working on making it over to take a VSM basic carbine course with Grant in Ohio.
Tonyparson
07-10-13, 22:51
I like it a lot. I'm planning on building my 3rd AR now. It should be a lot better then the first 2 I built now that I know a little more about AR's and the difference between Quality parts and low-quality parts.
Quality parts make ALL the difference.
I like it a lot. I'm planning on building my 3rd AR now. It should be a lot better then the first 2 I built now that I know a little more about AR's and the difference between Quality parts and low-quality parts.
MOE Handguard, and a Surefire 600 coming soon.
Hey my AR is like my 94' chevy P/U. The driving systems are 1960's tech, it gets the job done even by today's standards, and is pretty basic minus some user customization. :D
It's definitely a cure for Hipster syndrome. ;)
That's is a good looking KISS rifle right there!!
I picked up an MOE handguard from a buddy yesterday and had my scout mount come in. I'll first say its a slick setup, but the MOE isn't like I remembered it. It didn't feel right. To be honest, I think the "roundness" of the Centurion CMR ruined me ;). I had also picked up a set of the Noveske REECE slim handguards off EE to have as spares, and I think they are just the ticket.
So back to the drawing board to how to mount the scout light. I'm thinking something along the lines of this:
http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s424/Rmillerm4/image_zpsecfa36c0.jpg
Made by IWC. Only $35.
To be honest, I think the "roundness" of the Centurion CMR ruined me ;).:D At least you can admit it.
The Scout mount will be pretty sexy too: http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Centurion%20Arms%202/STCK1193-1200-Stick.jpg
I picked up an MOE handguard from a buddy yesterday and had my scout mount come in. I'll first say its a slick setup, but the MOE isn't like I remembered it. It didn't feel right. To be honest, I think the "roundness" of the Centurion CMR ruined me ;). I had also picked up a set of the Noveske REECE slim handguards off EE to have as spares, and I think they are just the ticket.
So back to the drawing board to how to mount the scout light. I'm thinking something along the lines of this:
http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s424/Rmillerm4/image_zpsecfa36c0.jpg
Made by IWC. Only $35.
Sort of the same thing happened to me. Got to where I really like the rounded profile of the NSR. Took my MOE and sanded down the widest area of it which is the upper most part of the lower half. Helped quite a bit.
Oh was going to PM you and say it but congratulations on the upcoming little one!!
-Jax
I'm in IL and quality training is hard to come by. There is one group, but they are quite pricey. I'm working on making it over to take a VSM basic carbine course with Grant in Ohio.
Make it to Columbus - and we can car pool the rest of the way.
Looks good man, very well thought out.
Sort of the same thing happened to me. Got to where I really like the rounded profile of the NSR. Took my MOE and sanded down the widest area of it which is the upper most part of the lower half. Helped quite a bit.
Oh was going to PM you and say it but congratulations on the upcoming little one!!
-Jax
I'm sure modding the MOE would help. I'm telling you these Noveske REECE handguards are about perfect. Offers a very good grip for the support hand.
http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s424/Rmillerm4/image_zpsce4fbdb0.jpg
And thanks brother! I can't wait for the little guy to get here! :D
Make it to Columbus - and we can car pool the rest of the way.
Looks good man, very well thought out.
Yea its either make it out your way or head south to Kentucky. Either way is gonna require driving. Just waiting for a basic course and go from there.
That IWC mount does look quite slick.
-Jax
Yea it does. And for $35 its not bad either.
That IWC mount does look quite slick.
-Jax
That is slick. Makes me miss the centurion, but I like my money more :D
:D At least you can admit it.
The Scout mount will be pretty sexy too: http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Centurion%20Arms%202/STCK1193-1200-Stick.jpg
When I see BCM, I see good.
Where did you get the LMT LPK?
Where did you get the LMT LPK?
From G&R tactical back last summer. Came with a QMS trigger as well.
Nice blaster brother, and trust me when I say I'll take good care of your old upper :D
Nice blaster brother, and trust me when I say I'll take good care of your old upper :D
I'm glad you like it. It served well.
From G&R tactical back last summer. Came with a QMS trigger as well.
Thanks.
Mall_Ninja
07-15-13, 01:05
How could I forget shooting enclosed or under my range's canopy. Rattles the brain a little. Best place to be is behind the carbine.
You can sit near my Barrett 50, you will think 5.56 with a comp is a BB gun! Most people rub their nose afterwards as it feels like it gave you a bloody nose... :sad:
RogerinTPA
07-15-13, 09:38
It's in dire need of some aervoe or krylon.:)
I've definitely given it thought. The painted lower does kinda stick out.
It's in dire need of some aervoe or krylon.:)
LonghunterCO
07-15-13, 14:19
Nice build. I love the DD A1.5 sight.
Looks like a simple, solid rifle you have there. Good job making a sensible build.
You mentioned getting a light and switching handguards and such. My comment would be to just stick with the handguards you have, and use IWC's mount to directly attatch to them; alternatively, Mossie Tactics makes an excellent mount for weaponlights called the "Midnight Mount" and it is worth every penny. Check it out.
My last bit is about your sling. If you have a problem with the weapon rolling out when slung, try tying the sling around the side of the front sight tower instead of the bottom sling swivel. It will hang much better, and be more stable.
I just orderd the IWC mount. I already have an M600 scout light and the IWC mount will work with my Noveske REECE handguards. And for $35 its hard to beat. Also, being able to use the m600's shrouded clicky tail cap is a plus in my book too.
The MT2400 mount was great, but I liked it best when setup with the FSB cutout rail. That way I could actually activate the light without sacrifing grip or without worry of burning my thumb after some use.
Looks like a simple, solid rifle you have there. Good job making a sensible build.
You mentioned getting a light and switching handguards and such. My comment would be to just stick with the handguards you have, and use IWC's mount to directly attatch to them; alternatively, Mossie Tactics makes an excellent mount for weaponlights called the "Midnight Mount" and it is worth every penny. Check it out.
My last bit is about your sling. If you have a problem with the weapon rolling out when slung, try tying the sling around the side of the front sight tower instead of the bottom sling swivel. It will hang much better, and be more stable.
The MT2400 mount was great, but I liked it best when setup with the FSB cutout rail. That way I could actually activate the light without sacrifing grip...
Yes sir. The Mossie is great. I was the guy that actually bought masakari's Mossie mount on the EE. ;) But ended up selling it b/c of the realization that I can't efficiently activate the X300 (with my shooting style) without a cut out rail to position my hand further forward. At the time of the Mossie being mounted I had (and still use) a MOE handguard. A Centurion middy FSB rail may have seriously changed my mind.
-Jax
Yes sir. The Mossie is great. I was the guy that actually bought masakari's Mossie mount on the EE. ;) But ended up selling it b/c of the realization that I can't efficiently activate the X300 (with my shooting style) without a cut out rail to position my hand further forward. At the time of the Mossie being mounted I had (and still use) a MOE handguard. A Centurion middy FSB rail may have seriously changed my mind.
-Jax
Yes a centurion would have complemented it very well. I had an older DD M4 on there for a while.
Submariner
07-20-13, 19:23
I'm in IL and quality training is hard to come by. There is one group, but they are quite pricey. I'm working on making it over to take a VSM basic carbine course with Grant in Ohio.
EAG (Pat Rogers) is running a 2-day Basic Carbine and 3-day Carbine Operator's Course at the Boone County Sheriff's Office in Lebanon, IN (NW of Indy just off I-65) in September. Sheriff Campbell gets good rates for students at the local motels. Less driving; more training.
EAG (Pat Rogers) is running a 2-day Basic Carbine and 3-day Carbine Operator's Course at the Boone County Sheriff's Office in Lebanon, IN (NW of Indy just off I-65) in September. Sheriff Campbell gets good rates for students at the local motels. Less driving; more training.
I will have to look into that for sure.
Did those carbine buffer weights help with this nice build? :D
Did those carbine buffer weights help with this nice build? :D
Yes, very much so.
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