View Full Version : Help, Bad/Possibly Really Bad Neighbors,
Hey Everyone,
I know we all bicker at times about petty stuff but I need some help from the m4carbine community and I would appreciate all of your thoughts.
I find myself and my family in a very precarious situation at the moment. We live in a spacious rental that is far removed from any actual town and on a typical East Coast country road with houses all around. The house we live in is on a small ten acre plot with it's own through road and five similarly sized houses along the road. There are 0 quick responding police forces where I am located, 1 to 2 night time Deputies for half of my county (large county) and some Troopers that have a wide range too. Until about three months ago the location offered us everything we needed to start our family while we saved up to buy our own place (I have a seven month old son and a wife).
Right now my second job sees me working nights until around 5 am three days a week.
Anyway a few months ago a "family" moved into the house next door to my place. My wife and I were automatically put off, as they reminded us of meth heads from when we lived out west. But we decided to give them a chance.
Since that time this "family" has accumulated three broken down cars, and about five to ten tenants that seem to come and go as they please. The weekends are party central. There is a fence between our places and I have made it very clear in body language and demeanor that I will be cordial and nod but I keep to my own.
Lately the parties are getting bigger and a few of the guys that are showing up are peacocking in a way that screams trouble. These new guys aren't leaving when the party is over either, they are sticking around for up to two days after a big shin dig.
Ten years ago I would have walked over during their party, had a beer and made it clear that they shouldn't **** with my family or my house. But now I have a child. I know that sounds bold, and pretty stupid, but to quote my wife "it's that special kind of Wyoming stupid all you boys from there have." Needless to say I am worried... I don't want to get the cops involved yet because all I have are hunches... And, we're very secluded, secluded enough that if the cops do get involved it could be way worse before it gets better (especially considering that I leave the house 3 nights a week until dawn).
Anyone have any advice for this young papa on how to handle this? We have a new place lined up but it is not available for two and a half months (which is a very long time).
Man I'm sorry to hear that, it sounds like a concerning situation. Hopefully someone with much more experience than I will chime in and offer some actual insight, but I don't know what there is for you to do. Its not a good feeling thinking about something bad happening to a loved one and not being there to do anything about it. Does the "family" consist of kids or just a couple? The only option that I'm seeing is to keep a close eye but continue doing what you are. You never know what will set some people off. I would suggest keeping a log of everything they do that is suspicious or at least an annoyance. That way if things ever do need to be escalated, you can present something accurate and organized to the police as opposed to "they and their punk friends rage a lot." Other than that, just try and make sure your wife is vigilant and aware, and you guys have plans for when you're there and when you aren't. I'm trying to get my girlfriend to simply increase her SA by any tiny bit and it is definitely an uphill battle. The things that go over her head blow me away sometimes (like the guy open carrying right in front of us in line one day - we were behind him for a solid 2.5 minutes and she didn't even notice until the lady at the cash register said something as he was walking out :rolleyes:). 2 and a half months is a long time on a night to night basis, good luck brother.
Well I would start calling the local PD and say that you smell horrible chemical type smells and it burns your nose when you go outside. That will get their attention and you might get lucky if they find some meth. Lol you could also catch them outside during the day and have a chat with them and just tell them what you expect and you don't wish to have a fued but you don't want your stuff messed with.
If none if that don't work go buy a bunch of flood lights and light them up all night haha.
Cincinnatus
07-16-13, 23:59
I would get a couple of dogs, if your rental agreement allows for it. Even if the dogs were outside, a fierce barking dog can make someone shy off your place.
Op if you can quit the second job and protect your family till you move in a couple of months. With drunk and possibly drugged party goers coming and going there is a real chance your wife or children will be targeted. Good luck...:)
Thanks guys. This is touchy, and I mean that. The police response to my property on the nights that they party is abysmal, especially considering that Lord Cuomo just instated an "Sober Summer" policy which pulls the responding officers in my neck of the woods into the cities to run DUI check points...
I'd be lucky to have a 15 minute response time to a 911 call.
My wife is amazing with her SA and her ability to handle herself under stress. The only reason I haven't flipped out is I trust my wife that much... There is no doubt in my mind if I couldn't get to a gun, and she could, that I would trust her to do what is right for our family (if that makes sense). She is a mama bear to the true sense of the term, and a grizzly...
But right now I need to ride through this storm. I need to not provoke a violent reaction while I wait to move, but I need to keep my family safe.
I like the idea of keeping a log, I think I will do that starting tonight.
FYI, I am quitting the second job soon too by the way but we still can't move until the time noted.
First be glad you are renting. You retain the "option" of bailing. I know that probably sounds absurd to you, but be glad you have options. If you owned your home you'd really be limited.
Your obvious problem is despite any intentions you are not there to hold the fort because you work and leave your home, property and family vulnerable to any "bad intentions" during times when chances of "getting away with it" are highest.
Does not sound like you are in a situation where you can rely and any neighbors to watch out for your family and property even if you did work during the day. So pretty much not only are you on your own completely, you aren't even home when it matters the most.
Now just read everything I wrote several more times before you even contemplate doing ANYTHING. When retaliation comes, and it sounds like you have the kind of shitbag neighbors who will retaliate over anything, you probably will not be home when it happens. That means unless you have a family member willing to come stand post, your wife will be the one to deal with it by herself.
Let me also save you some time. Don't bother talking to them at all. Anyone with the decency to respect your requests of consideration wouldn't be causing you these kinds of problems to begin with. Best case scenario is they will say "Sorry brah...no problems" and then completely ignore you and continue on as before but now they know who the "complainer" is if you decide to up the ante. At worst you will get the standard "**** you men, this is my house I do what I want."
If you call the cops, it may or may not help fix things. Loud obnoxious assholes who bother their neighbors are so common that usually the police don't even want to get bothered. Best case scenario is you will have a local noise ordnance that the police are willing to actively enforce. This will cause one of many things to happen...
1. They stop acting like assholes (unlikely)
2. They start ****ing with your shit to get even (most likely)
3. They get tired of dealing with it and move (this is your goal)
One advantage you have RIGHT NOW is they are probably annoying everyone in proximity to their home. That means RIGHT NOW they don't know you are calling the police, they don't know you are taking any other actions you may deem necessary.
But before you do ANYTHING, consider these kinds of neighbors have little to lose. They can be hard to arrest for specific things and they've probably been in jail before. You on the other hand have quite a bit at risk.
But even if you do NOTHING they may decide to **** with you because they don't like how you look. They may decide to **** with your family because they think they can get away with it. And they may decide to rob your shed or home because you have nice things.
I have had a series of bad neighbors in a rental property next to me. Unfortunately I own my house so I can't just rent elsewhere. That means I had to make life so uncomfortable for them that it was easier for them to rent elsewhere and I had to be way more trouble than I was worth in terms of them ****ing with me.
It can be difficult to navigate that fine line between sending them a clear message of "willing to indulge bad intentions" and breaking the law with actual threats of violence that can land YOU in jail.
Sometimes cleaning an AR on the back bench makes them think "Jesus Christ that white boy has a rifle and doesn't seem happy with me, I'm gonna move" with others it makes them think "He's got a rifle I want to steal."
Random actions that say "We are tired of putting up with your shit" can have an impact but if you are the person engaging in those actions you are again putting yourself at risk. And no matter how random the actions may be, they can probably figure it out. It's probably not the first time they've dealt with neighbors who are sick of their shit.
And even if you manage to drive them off, that doesn't mean they won't come back one night a month later and **** with your shit while you are at work.
This is why most people simply close their curtains, buy noise cancelling headphones and pray nothing gets stolen or vandalized. Of course that means you are living at the mercy of the intentions of retards and have surrendered your desire to not put up with their bullshit.
Anyway, think hard before you do anything. Have a plan. Have a plan for when the plan goes wrong. Expect a response no matter what you do, regardless of how you choose to do it.
Your key problem is they are not afraid of you, afraid of what you might be capable of and as a result have no respect for you and are demonstrating that lack of respect or even basic consideration for a neighbor. You may or may not be capable of changing their perspective.
ETA: High wattage motion detector floodlights with lights covering ares of your property that you are worried about and / or brightly lighting up areas of their property where they cause problems. I was able to keep some loud and obnoxious neighbors inside with a brightly lit floodlight pointed at their front porch that came on every time they came out at night to make ****ing noise.
A basic camera security system could also be valuable so it isn't just "your word against theirs" if and when you have a problem.
ETAII: Two and a half months you should be able to pull off by projecting a generally negative and aggressive posture without really saying or doing anything. Wait till you deal with shit like this for an entire year.
My wife is amazing with her SA and her ability to handle herself under stress. The only reason I haven't flipped out is I trust my wife that much... There is no doubt in my mind if I couldn't get to a gun, and she could, that I would trust her to do what is right for our family (if that makes sense). She is a mama bear to the true sense of the term, and a grizzly...
Sounds like a winner ;)
I like the idea of keeping a log, I think I will do that starting tonight.
Its a small step, but its definitely one of the few that can't hurt. Make it detailed, if it were me I'd probably do as much of a SALUTE report as possible (Size, Activity, Location, Uniform, Time, Equipment). Obviously some of those make more sense than others, but can't hurt.
A dog is also a damn good idea, if your situation allows it.
ditto and might throw in you hear them screaming of I am going to blow your head off !! and LOTS of coming and going all the time
Well I would start calling the local PD and say that you smell horrible chemical type smells and it burns your nose when you go outside. That will get their attention and you might get lucky if they find some meth. Lol you could also catch them outside during the day and have a chat with them and just tell them what you expect and you don't wish to have a fued but you don't want your stuff messed with.
If none if that don't work go buy a bunch of flood lights and light them up all night haha.
Alpha Sierra
07-17-13, 04:34
ditto and might throw in the screams of I am going to blow your head off !! and LOTS of coming and going all the time
????????
Voodoo_Man
07-17-13, 04:46
Do yourself a favor and call 911 every single time there is anything even remotely annoying, especially loud music and any type of hostile confrontation, and it does not have to be with the neighbors themselves, but their guests.
A paper trial will be #1 defense for you if anything happens down the road. You want to be able to cover yourself as much as possible if something where to happen you want to have a police documented paper trial to backup your statements.
Few things to do:
1. check the local noise laws/ordinances - when (what time) do they have to shut off their loud music?
2. are they all parking legally (I understand it could be private property, but are all their guests on the private property? Are some of them blocking the road or parking illegally on your property or others?)
3. document every interaction you have with them or any observation you make - keep a journal or log - ie; "7/16/13 - had a party tonight, very loud music, screaming, lots of drunk people stumbling out and driving away, called 911 made a report, spoke with officer friendly badge #1234 report #12345
4. if you do not already have one, get a camera or a camera system that you can see while you are not at home (ip camera/etc)
5. if you are not already armed, get armed, make sure your wife/others(?) in your home know how to use a firearm.
6. make sure you lock everything, doors, windows, cars, etc and do not leave anything out.
Good luck.
????????
meaning you hear the neighbors saying that to each other :)
Thanks guys. This is touchy, and I mean that. The police response to my property on the nights that they party is abysmal, especially considering that Lord Cuomo just instated an "Sober Summer" policy which pulls the responding officers in my neck of the woods into the cities to run DUI check points...
I'd be lucky to have a 15 minute response time to a 911 call.
My wife is amazing with her SA and her ability to handle herself under stress. The only reason I haven't flipped out is I trust my wife that much... There is no doubt in my mind if I couldn't get to a gun, and she could, that I would trust her to do what is right for our family (if that makes sense). She is a mama bear to the true sense of the term, and a grizzly...
But right now I need to ride through this storm. I need to not provoke a violent reaction while I wait to move, but I need to keep my family safe.
I like the idea of keeping a log, I think I will do that starting tonight.
Very rational thinking there. It's a thin line and you seem to grasp the "threat-benefit" exceedingly well.
I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
I recall living in a similar situation of really horrid neighbors and it was truly Hell. People who perceive they have far less to lose than you: the types of people to avoid like the plague.
montanadave
07-17-13, 07:22
Unfortunate situation and I feel for you. BTDT. Fortunately, I was able to resolve the conflict through some mediation by a neutral third party. That, coupled with the individual "maturing out" of some of the more objectionable behavior, defused the situation. But this took place over years, not months.
Some rather incendiary rhetoric here which, in my opinion, is neither helpful nor a wise approach to your situation. Making false reports of suspected drug activity is a bad idea. A really bad idea.
One thing I would do is make an appointment to speak with your local sheriff, go in, and spend a few minutes outlining your concerns. This accomplishes several things. It puts a face to your name, so if, in the future, you require assistance from the sheriff's office, you are a known quantity. You're the guy that came in and had a calm, rational discussion about your family's safety. And it puts you first in line. If there is a confrontation or conflict and there's a "he said, he said" kind of situation, you're gonna have a thumb on the scale.
The local LEO may also have some suggestions. Keeping a log of activities will probably be on that list. Vehicle license numbers, etc. He may also offer to provide some "heightened visibility" of law enforcement in your area. A few casual "drive-bys" can go a long way towards mitigating unruly or illegal activity.
I hope your situation improves soon and you and your family remain safe.
Stories like this remind me how lucky I am to live in a large city on the East Coast with a high crime rate. Increasingly I am finding the "element" is moving to the suburbs while the cities are filling up with yuppies and homos.
Spurholder
07-17-13, 07:55
This might work for you, but then again - it might not apply.
I had some members of the FSA move in directly across the street from me. Different people coming and going at odd hours, not able to accurately track just who was living there, cars in the yard, piles of trash in the driveway, cigarette butts everywhere, etc.
I knew the house's owner (his inlaws lived in the house until they were unable to care for themselves), and let him know - one property owner to another - that while he might be getting his rent checks on time, they were destroying his home from the inside out.
He asked me to talk to them if I had a problem, whereupon I told him that a) those were his tenants, not mine, and b) I had no intention of doing anything other than calling the cops if he wasn't interested in keeping his tenants in line. After several calls to the cops, he got the message, and the Beverly Hillbillies loaded up their pickup and boat with their belongings and split within a few months.
I now have a very nice couple with two small children living across the street.
OP, I feel for you, but at least you're renting and you can pop smoke on the place if you can't get the problem addressed.
One thing I would do is make an appointment to speak with your local sheriff, go in, and spend a few minutes outlining your concerns. This accomplishes several things. It puts a face to your name, so if, in the future, you require assistance from the sheriff's office, you are a known quantity. You're the guy that came in and had a calm, rational discussion about your family's safety. And it puts you first in line. If there is a confrontation or conflict and there's a "he said, he said" kind of situation, you're gonna have a thumb on the scale.
The local LEO may also have some suggestions. Keeping a log of activities will probably be on that list. Vehicle license numbers, etc. He may also offer to provide some "heightened visibility" of law enforcement in your area. A few casual "drive-bys" can go a long way towards mitigating unruly or illegal activity.
I knew the house's owner (his inlaws lived in the house until they were unable to care for themselves), and let him know - one property owner to another - that while he might be getting his rent checks on time, they were destroying his home from the inside out.
He asked me to talk to them if I had a problem, whereupon I told him that a) those were his tenants, not mine, and b) I had no intention of doing anything other than calling the cops if he wasn't interested in keeping his tenants in line. After several calls to the cops, he got the message, and the Beverly Hillbillies loaded up their pickup and boat with their belongings and split within a few months.
Some really good advice in the above quoted posts. Good luck!
Stories like this remind me how lucky I am to live in a large city on the East Coast with a high crime rate. Increasingly I am finding the "element" is moving to the suburbs while the cities are filling up with yuppies and homos.
Yea minus the "homo" comment in your statement I agree. I live in one of those areas you are talking about.
Hey everyone thank you so much for your suggestions. Someone once told me a funny saying from his country: "You can try and pick your politicians but you can't pick your neighbors."
I have a lot to think about and a lot to talk to my wife about. I will be meeting with a friend of mine who is a local night time deputy and an all around good person. He said he wants to sit down over coffee and talk so I think this is good outreach. I may ask him to do a few drive by's if the parties continue.
OP, who is on the other side of your new neighbors? Are you cordial with them? Any chance of speaking with that neighbor privately about keeping an eye out for illicit behavior? I would reach out to them and politely warn / ask them to keep an eye out because if you do take it to the Fuzz, you wont bare the brunt of being the whistleblower on a crew like that.
OP, who is on the other side of your new neighbors? Are you cordial with them? Any chance of speaking with that neighbor privately about keeping an eye out for illicit behavior? I would reach out to them and politely warn / ask them to keep an eye out because if you do take it to the Fuzz, you wont bare the brunt of being the whistleblower on a crew like that.
I know that neighbor we have talked a lot and we both have kids. We've never had a BBQ together but we chat every time we see each other.
Not a bad idea, I have been meaning to reach out to him. I spoke with the neighbor on my other side and him and his wife are very nervous but are kind of shut ins and are the furthest removed space wise from these people.
.46caliber
07-17-13, 09:25
Talking with local LE is definitely good.
I feel your pain man, we just went through it ourselves. We moved into a much nicer neighborhood a couple months ago.
One of the things, little as it was, that brought me a small measure of peace was a good neighbor. He was across the street from the problem home and I was next to it. When either of us were away, we'd keep an extra eye on the other's home. It sounds like your neighbors are spread a bit, but having a good neighbor and looking out for each other will help for the next couple months till you leave.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
Long term stay hotel? If you explain the situation to the management they may give you a break on price.
I would not alert the bad guys to any "new" behavior that might cause them to feel the need or desire to act.
Does anyone rent guard dogs? If so get two. One new dog looks like you might be scared. Two looks like you might actually enjoying seeing someone get their ass torn off. That ought to buy you 60 days.
My plan A would be wife with gun, if it moves in the night, shoot it.
Plan B, get them out to hotel or similar.
People think moving to rural areas with a bit of acreage is somehow guaranteed privacy, security. Often times it's just the opposite. Especially if the little pocket subdivision has a wide price range of home types or if they are affordable to undesirables.
You really need to do your homework before buying into that sort of situation.
I have a lot to think about and a lot to talk to my wife about. I will be meeting with a friend of mine who is a local night time deputy and an all around good person. He said he wants to sit down over coffee and talk so I think this is good outreach. I may ask him to do a few drive by's if the parties continue.
Just a suggestion... I'd request for your local LE to conduct drive-by's now and continue them until it relinquishes. Have them drive-by during their "normal" party hours regardless that way they know there's always a presence rather than someone calling them in for having a party. I think seeing them daily would help to prevent retaliation on the part of the shitbirds.
Personally, I would move. Not worth the confrontation and potential ramifications. This sounds like a potentially dangerous situation for you and your family; I would just de-ass the area and quickly.
I feel for you man. After the Tornados last year they built 10 homes for Habitat for Humanity in my neighborhood. Lets just say that my neighborhood went from a nice area with pretty good if not perfect neighbors to a place where cars are parked on the street everywhere. Dog shit is all over the place, and the police are here at least 2 times a week.
Mauser KAR98K
07-17-13, 17:27
No on all the suggestions. Call the girl-scouts. They will take care of them.
http://immodiumabuser.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/you-should-have-bought-the-cookies.jpg
decodeddiesel
07-17-13, 19:32
So, some young people who like to party moved into the house next door and you're put off about it? That's all, or am I missing something here? News flash, "they looked like meth heads" is not going to hold up in court if you light one of them up with your shinny new AR-15 one night because they wander into your yard after a few too many beers...especially not out on the East Coast. Has anything actually happened here other than some loud partying?
Now people are talking about making false accusations to the PD about "meth lab smells", renting attack dogs, and issuing orders to shoot it if it moves to the wife?! No offense, but what the **** is wrong with you people? Are you guys that paranoid? I mean, for christ's sake I get 10% disability for PTSD and I don't think about planting IEDs and setting up a hide on my roof when the neighbor kids throw a party.
If it's a problem, go talk to them, or mail them an anonymous letter expressing your concerns. Go talk to your local PD, contact your landlords, or their landlords.
Some key points here:
Last time I checked having a party is not a crime. It sucks they are disturbing you, but if all that's going on is some loud noises there's really no merit to "circling the wagons".
They have broken down cars in the yard? Maybe one of them is a mechanic and flips cars for a living.
Five or so folks who come and go? So what? If it's their house they are free to rent out as many rooms as they want. Furthermore, if they are young and like to party odds are they have these people called "friends" they associate with who may *shocker* spend the night from time to time if they drink too much and aren't fit to drive. :confused:
"few of the guys that are showing up are peacocking in a way that screams trouble" I don't even know what that means. Young single guys who hit on women and like to party? :confused:
I know this isn't going to be a popular post, but god damn I feel like it needs to be said.
ETA: I saw this gem when looking back over the thread: "With drunk and possibly drugged party goers coming and going there is a real chance your wife or children will be targeted." What kind of ****ed up logic is that? Perhaps things have changed since my time, but I've been to plenty of house parties in my day where there were kegs, and *OMFG* maybe even a joint or 2 smoked and the last thing on everyone's mind was raping and pillaging the neighbor's house.
imo, the talking with the neighbors and a good sized dog is the best option. GSD, Rottweiler, or Mal should do the trick
decodeddiesel
07-17-13, 20:24
imo, the talking with the neighbors and a good sized dog is the best option. GSD, Rottweiler, or Mal should do the trick
My understanding is that the OP has a child in the home. I think it would be a really bad idea to bring in a fully grown working dog. I couldn't imagine having a strange Rottweiler around my 4 year old.
TacticalSledgehammer
07-17-13, 22:57
So, some young people who like to party moved into the house next door and you're put off about it? That's all, or am I missing something here? News flash, "they looked like meth heads" is not going to hold up in court if you light one of them up with your shinny new AR-15 one night because they wander into your yard after a few too many beers...especially not out on the East Coast. Has anything actually happened here other than some loud partying?
Now people are talking about making false accusations to the PD about "meth lab smells", renting attack dogs, and issuing orders to shoot it if it moves to the wife?! No offense, but what the **** is wrong with you people? Are you guys that paranoid? I mean, for christ's sake I get 10% disability for PTSD and I don't think about planting IEDs and setting up a hide on my roof when the neighbor kids throw a party.
If it's a problem, go talk to them, or mail them an anonymous letter expressing your concerns. Go talk to your local PD, contact your landlords, or their landlords.
Some key points here:
Last time I checked having a party is not a crime. It sucks they are disturbing you, but if all that's going on is some loud noises there's really no merit to "circling the wagons".
They have broken down cars in the yard? Maybe one of them is a mechanic and flips cars for a living.
Five or so folks who come and go? So what? If it's their house they are free to rent out as many rooms as they want. Furthermore, if they are young and like to party odds are they have these people called "friends" they associate with who may *shocker* spend the night from time to time if they drink too much and aren't fit to drive. :confused:
"few of the guys that are showing up are peacocking in a way that screams trouble" I don't even know what that means. Young single guys who hit on women and like to party? :confused:
I know this isn't going to be a popular post, but god damn I feel like it needs to be said.
ETA: I saw this gem when looking back over the thread: "With drunk and possibly drugged party goers coming and going there is a real chance your wife or children will be targeted." What kind of ****ed up logic is that? Perhaps things have changed since my time, but I've been to plenty of house parties in my day where there were kegs, and *OMFG* maybe even a joint or 2 smoked and the last thing on everyone's mind was raping and pillaging the neighbor's house.
My thoughts exactly.
OP, catch the feller outside, offer him a beer and introduce yourself. Every time you see him out say hi and chit chat for a minute. Get it in his head that you're a cool neighbor that doesn't take any nonsense.
decodeddiesel
07-17-13, 23:39
My thoughts exactly.
OP, catch the feller outside, offer him a beer and introduce yourself. Every time you see him out say hi and chit chat for a minute. Get it in his head that you're a cool neighbor that doesn't take any nonsense.
Amen. Why not try knocking on the door with a bottle of Jack or some other gift and try talking to the folks?
Amen. Why not try knocking on the door with a bottle of Jack or some other gift and try talking to the folks?
Why is it his responsibility to smooth over a situation he shouldn't have to put up with in the first place?
Whatever happened to "that would bother the neighbors?"
Why is it when some house full of inconsiderate turds show zero respect for those who live around them and bother everyone with their bullshit, the people who are being bothered must assume the responsibility of "asking" inconsiderate assholes to stop being inconsiderate assholes?
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I should move to a really peaceful and quiet neighborhood and blast shitty music at 2am, piss outdoors off of my front porch, take a shit in people's driveways and pass out drunk on my front lawn every morning. Maybe then everyone will be obligated to bring me some kind of gift and "request" that I stop being such a ****tard. Maybe they can buy me lunch and I'll turn my music down a little at 1am. If they send over a couple pizzas maybe I'll stop playing the drums in the front yard.
TacticalSledgehammer
07-18-13, 00:58
Well I think he can either own the situation and not cause any hard feelings (maybe gain respect quickly) or be one of those pussy neighbors and call the cops on everything. Just because someone moves in next door, looks rough and likes to have a good time doesn't mean they're bad guys.
So, some young people who like to party moved into the house next door and you're put off about it? That's all, or am I missing something here? News flash, "they looked like meth heads" is not going to hold up in court if you light one of them up with your shinny new AR-15 one night because they wander into your yard after a few too many beers...especially not out on the East Coast. Has anything actually happened here other than some loud partying?
Now people are talking about making false accusations to the PD about "meth lab smells", renting attack dogs, and issuing orders to shoot it if it moves to the wife?! No offense, but what the **** is wrong with you people? Are you guys that paranoid? I mean, for christ's sake I get 10% disability for PTSD and I don't think about planting IEDs and setting up a hide on my roof when the neighbor kids throw a party.
If it's a problem, go talk to them, or mail them an anonymous letter expressing your concerns. Go talk to your local PD, contact your landlords, or their landlords.
Some key points here:
Last time I checked having a party is not a crime. It sucks they are disturbing you, but if all that's going on is some loud noises there's really no merit to "circling the wagons".
They have broken down cars in the yard? Maybe one of them is a mechanic and flips cars for a living.
Five or so folks who come and go? So what? If it's their house they are free to rent out as many rooms as they want. Furthermore, if they are young and like to party odds are they have these people called "friends" they associate with who may *shocker* spend the night from time to time if they drink too much and aren't fit to drive. :confused:
"few of the guys that are showing up are peacocking in a way that screams trouble" I don't even know what that means. Young single guys who hit on women and like to party? :confused:
I know this isn't going to be a popular post, but god damn I feel like it needs to be said.
ETA: I saw this gem when looking back over the thread: "With drunk and possibly drugged party goers coming and going there is a real chance your wife or children will be targeted." What kind of ****ed up logic is that? Perhaps things have changed since my time, but I've been to plenty of house parties in my day where there were kegs, and *OMFG* maybe even a joint or 2 smoked and the last thing on everyone's mind was raping and pillaging the neighbor's house.
I agree with this post.
OP, I think maybe your parental instincts towards your infant son are amplifying your perception of things. I do know how you feel, as my son, 20 months old, is everything to me. It subsides.....sort of....;)
decodeddiesel
07-18-13, 01:07
Why is it his responsibility to smooth over a situation he shouldn't have to put up with in the first place?
Whatever happened to "that would bother the neighbors?"
Why is it when some house full of inconsiderate turds show zero respect for those who live around them and bother everyone with their bullshit, the people who are being bothered must assume the responsibility of "asking" inconsiderate assholes to stop being inconsiderate assholes?
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I should move to a really peaceful and quiet neighborhood and blast shitty music at 2am, piss outdoors off of my front porch, take a shit in people's driveways and pass out drunk on my front lawn every morning. Maybe then everyone will be obligated to bring me some kind of gift and "request" that I stop being such a ****tard. Maybe they can buy me lunch and I'll turn my music down a little at 1am. If they send over a couple pizzas maybe I'll stop playing the drums in the front yard.
I see what you are saying, and trust me I feel common courtesy is lost this day in age with the younger generation. Although I have many neighbors who throw loud parties frequently (they are all 30 or 40 somethings who own their homes) I don't even use an impact wrench in my garage after dark for fear of it disturbing my neighbors.
I'm certainly not making excuses for their behavior, but the fact of the matter here is that these neighbors aren't shitting in the yard, passing out drunk on the lawn, vandalizing the property, etc.
As far as the peace offering? Well I guess my slavic wife rubbed off on me a little with the gift offering, but in my experience it tends to go a long way towards smoothing the waters and avoiding hard feelings before they begin. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, is a $15 bottle of booze that big of a deal? I am sure they would be a lot more receptive to someone who came bearing gifts and asking them to turn it down a notch than some nut-job renting some killer attack dogs, pointing spotlights at their house, making false accusations to the police, setting up a defensive perimeter, etc.
Maybe these kids moved out to the sticks because they like to party and wanted some privacy/seclusion of their own? I mean, the OP said he lives on a secluded 10 acre plot in the middle of no-where. Maybe bringing it to their attention that he has an infant and their loud parties are bothering him and his family is all he needs to do.
I see what you are saying, and trust me I feel common courtesy is lost this day in age with the younger generation. Although I have many neighbors who throw loud parties frequently (they are all 30 or 40 somethings who own their homes) I don't even use an impact wrench in my garage after dark for fear of it disturbing my neighbors.
I'm certainly not making excuses for their behavior, but the fact of the matter here is that these neighbors aren't shitting in the yard, passing out drunk on the lawn, vandalizing the property, etc.
As far as the peace offering? Well I guess my slavic wife rubbed off on me a little with the gift offering, but in my experience it tends to go a long way towards smoothing the waters and avoiding hard feelings before they begin. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, is a $15 bottle of booze that big of a deal? I am sure they would be a lot more receptive to someone who came bearing gifts and asking them to turn it down a notch than some nut-job renting some killer attack dogs, pointing spotlights at their house, making false accusations to the police, setting up a defensive perimeter, etc.
Maybe these kids moved out to the sticks because they like to party and wanted some privacy/seclusion of their own? I mean, the OP said he lives on a secluded 10 acre plot in the middle of no-where. Maybe bringing it to their attention that he has an infant and their loud parties are bothering him and his family is all he needs to do.
The problem is it doesn't sound like they have their own 10 acre plot and they still have next door neighbors that they are disturbing.
But you are correct it doesn't sound like they have done anything yet, but neither has anyone else. The OP is forming contingency plans and people are offering advice if worst case scenarios are realized.
In my experience it has been a fools errand to ask for consideration from inconsiderate people. In most cases it was simply seen as weakness with the most problematic examples and then I had to offset that as well as deal with the existing problems.
I think the problem is you seem to be a "reasonable and considerate" person and you are imagining something along the lines of your holiday party getting a little rowdy. And in that case I'd probably send you over a nice bottle of something and ask you to turn it down.
decodeddiesel
07-18-13, 02:07
The problem is it doesn't sound like they have their own 10 acre plot and they still have next door neighbors that they are disturbing.
But you are correct it doesn't sound like they have done anything yet, but neither has anyone else. The OP is forming contingency plans and people are offering advice if worst case scenarios are realized.
In my experience it has been a fools errand to ask for consideration from inconsiderate people. In most cases it was simply seen as weakness with the most problematic examples and then I had to offset that as well as deal with the existing problems.
I think the problem is you seem to be a "reasonable and considerate" person and you are imagining something along the lines of your holiday party getting a little rowdy. And in that case I'd probably send you over a nice bottle of something and ask you to turn it down.
I certainly understand your outrage when you place yourself in the OP's shoes. I've had shitty neighbors before, and been plenty pissed laying in bed at 3 am listening to bass reverberating through my wall/floor/bed when I had to go to work the next morning.
I agree, it sounds like the OP's neighbors may be inconsiderate asswipes, but that's all they are so far. Most of the recommended courses of action I have seen in this thread are far FAR more douchebag'ish (and illegal) than the partying. Further, the suggestions (not from you) that these neighbors are ruthless and potentially violent because of their appearance and the fact that they like to have a good time is so far beyond paranoid it is unbelievable.
I probably am a "reasonable and considerate" person, but I am an asshole too. :lol:
Suwannee Tim
07-18-13, 08:37
Do yourself a favor and call 911 every single time there is anything even remotely annoying.....
I would absolutely not do this. I would try to get along, be very tolerant of anything you can tolerate and don't piss them off. These sorts of folk are very unpredictable which makes them all the more unnerving. One thing is predictable, if you piss them off things will get worse. You will probably get through this with no problem but don't overreact which almost guarantees you will have a problem.
Voodoo_Man
07-18-13, 08:43
I would absolutely not do this. I would try to get along, be very tolerant of anything you can tolerate and don't piss them off. These sorts of folk are very unpredictable which makes them all the more unnerving. One thing is predictable, if you piss them off things will get worse. You will probably get through this with no problem but don't overreact which almost guarantees you will have a problem.
Anyone that has gone through anything like this and has gotten into any sort of legal battle or had to take physical action against these types of people knows that police reports are what save your ass when it comes to actual crimes against you or your family.
Suwannee Tim
07-18-13, 08:54
Anyone that has gone through anything like this and has gotten into any sort of legal battle or had to take physical action against these types of people knows that police reports are what save your ass when it comes to actual crimes against you or your family.
I have lived in such environments and I know it is better to avoid trouble than to pick a fight with people who have poor judgement and little or nothing to loose. If you want to win legal battles with people who are judgement proof and physical conflicts fought over the battlefield of your home and loved ones then knock yourself out. I advise highly, highly against this approach. Two and a half months is not a long time, you can put up with a lot of shit with the end that near. Many of these people thrive on conflict. You engage in conflict with them you are playing their game and they make up the rules of the game as they go. You think you can win in that environment?
I see the solution to this problem as a view of your lovely neighbors for the last time coming soon to a rear view mirror near you. You already have that set up. Now you just want to get to that moment with as little grief as possible.
I would absolutely not do this. I would try to get along, be very tolerant of anything you can tolerate and don't piss them off. These sorts of folk are very unpredictable which makes them all the more unnerving. One thing is predictable, if you piss them off things will get worse. You will probably get through this with no problem but don't overreact which almost guarantees you will have a problem.
What proof is there that the neighbors are bad people, likely to commit violent acts against the OP and his family?
p22shooter30
07-18-13, 10:26
What proof is there that the neighbors are bad people, likely to commit violent acts against the OP and his family?
I agree with him. I have seen such a thing happen. It might not be the people that live there, but people that are over for a party will hear about it and do something. It might not be a violent act, but they might vandalize the property. It is a really crappy situation to be in. Good Luck OP.
I certainly understand your outrage when you place yourself in the OP's shoes. I've had shitty neighbors before, and been plenty pissed laying in bed at 3 am listening to bass reverberating through my wall/floor/bed when I had to go to work the next morning.
I agree, it sounds like the OP's neighbors may be inconsiderate asswipes, but that's all they are so far. Most of the recommended courses of action I have seen in this thread are far FAR more douchebag'ish (and illegal) than the partying. Further, the suggestions (not from you) that these neighbors are ruthless and potentially violent because of their appearance and the fact that they like to have a good time is so far beyond paranoid it is unbelievable.
I probably am a "reasonable and considerate" person, but I am an asshole too. :lol:
Like I pointed out, NOBODY has done anything yet. And the advice given is just in case somebody does something in the future that warrants a reaction.
I mean, for christ's sake I get 10% disability for PTSD and I don't think about planting IEDs and setting up a hide on my roof when the neighbor kids throw a party.
That's just lack of imagination on your part. Start piling sandbags around your bathtub in case you're forced to use it as a fighting position. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR!?!?!
--------------
But seriously, if there is any indication that you approaching your neighbors and asking/telling them to keep it down will result in an altercation - just stay the **** home and call the police to complain / handle it. If you walk over with a gift to have a nice conversation there's a chance it will go well, but there's also a chance that your degerate neighbor is going to take it as an opportunity to start shit because he doesn't like being told what to do. At the drop of a hat you could find yourself in a fight you weren't expecting and if you're carrying we all know where this could lead - on his property, having not been invited, telling them what to do, a fight starts and you shoot someone in self defense but they'll call it murder.
It's a judgement call based on everything you know about these folks, but if you think they'll receive you poorly then call the police, create a paper trail, and let the law handle it.
Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. There's nothing wrong with being kind (which is different from being friendly). Let them know you're neighbors and that you've welcomed them to the neighborhood, but don't go out of the way to socialize with them.
At the same time, install a camera system, make sure you have insurance on your valuables (firearms included), and get a security system.
It's not that complicated. Any planning, aside from the above, is likely to cause you to gravitate towards causing a confrontation because you've planned for it and, more importantly, are ready for it to happen. Planning for an eventual fight against your neighbor (even in a precautionary way) is going to affect your behavior, your demeanor, and your interactions with them because you've thought about it, processed it, and are no longer in fear of it because you've prepared for it. This will bring about its own change in behavior that others will pick up on. Make yourself less of a target by showing goodwill and avoiding confrontation, not by walling yourself up and trying to play a game of "who can look tougher."
There's pessimism, optimism, and realism. Right now, you're borderlining pessimism - assuming the worst will happen. Plan to the extent you can, then leave it at that. Know that you have a plan, but don't focus on being ready to execute it.
Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring about its own worries.
Just my .02
So, some young people who like to party moved into the house next door and you're put off about it? That's all, or am I missing something here? News flash, "they looked like meth heads" is not going to hold up in court if you light one of them up with your shinny new AR-15 one night because they wander into your yard after a few too many beers...especially not out on the East Coast. Has anything actually happened here other than some loud partying?
Now people are talking about making false accusations to the PD about "meth lab smells", renting attack dogs, and issuing orders to shoot it if it moves to the wife?! No offense, but what the **** is wrong with you people? Are you guys that paranoid? I mean, for christ's sake I get 10% disability for PTSD and I don't think about planting IEDs and setting up a hide on my roof when the neighbor kids throw a party.
If it's a problem, go talk to them, or mail them an anonymous letter expressing your concerns. Go talk to your local PD, contact your landlords, or their landlords.
Some key points here:
Last time I checked having a party is not a crime. It sucks they are disturbing you, but if all that's going on is some loud noises there's really no merit to "circling the wagons".
They have broken down cars in the yard? Maybe one of them is a mechanic and flips cars for a living.
Five or so folks who come and go? So what? If it's their house they are free to rent out as many rooms as they want. Furthermore, if they are young and like to party odds are they have these people called "friends" they associate with who may *shocker* spend the night from time to time if they drink too much and aren't fit to drive. :confused:
"few of the guys that are showing up are peacocking in a way that screams trouble" I don't even know what that means. Young single guys who hit on women and like to party? :confused:
I know this isn't going to be a popular post, but god damn I feel like it needs to be said.
ETA: I saw this gem when looking back over the thread: "With drunk and possibly drugged party goers coming and going there is a real chance your wife or children will be targeted." What kind of ****ed up logic is that? Perhaps things have changed since my time, but I've been to plenty of house parties in my day where there were kegs, and *OMFG* maybe even a joint or 2 smoked and the last thing on everyone's mind was raping and pillaging the neighbor's house.
Wow...
I'm going to read through all the responses before I take the time to respond to this. You assume a lot about me with this post. My second job is as a bartender by the way, at a "gasp" party bar, full of young people you "gasp" may smoke a joint or two from time to time.
I know the difference between a frat party, and a drug operation. "Gasp", I have life experience, amazing... Who would have thought it.
Why is it his responsibility to smooth over a situation he shouldn't have to put up with in the first place?
Whatever happened to "that would bother the neighbors?"
Why is it when some house full of inconsiderate turds show zero respect for those who live around them and bother everyone with their bullshit, the people who are being bothered must assume the responsibility of "asking" inconsiderate assholes to stop being inconsiderate assholes?
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I should move to a really peaceful and quiet neighborhood and blast shitty music at 2am, piss outdoors off of my front porch, take a shit in people's driveways and pass out drunk on my front lawn every morning. Maybe then everyone will be obligated to bring me some kind of gift and "request" that I stop being such a ****tard. Maybe they can buy me lunch and I'll turn my music down a little at 1am. If they send over a couple pizzas maybe I'll stop playing the drums in the front yard.
That about sums it up...
decodeddiesel
07-18-13, 16:39
Wow...
I'm going to read through all the responses before I take the time to respond to this. You assume a lot about me with this post. My second job is as a bartender by the way, at a "gasp" party bar, full of young people you "gasp" may smoke a joint or two from time to time.
I know the difference between a frat party, and a drug operation. "Gasp", I have life experience, amazing... Who would have thought it.
You make no mention whats so ever about your neighbors housing a "drug operation" other than mentioning they "look like meth heads".
I would ask you this, if they were cooking or selling meth or some other drug, do you think they would be hosting loud blow-out parties every weekend drawing attention to themselves?
I understand what it's like to be a protective new father, trust me. Just try to remain objective in your views and dealings with your neighbors.
Do what you will, good luck.
Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. There's nothing wrong with being kind (which is different from being friendly). Let them know you're neighbors and that you've welcomed them to the neighborhood, but don't go out of the way to socialize with them.
At the same time, install a camera system, make sure you have insurance on your valuables (firearms included), and get a security system.
It's not that complicated. Any planning, aside from the above, is likely to cause you to gravitate towards causing a confrontation because you've planned for it and, more importantly, are ready for it to happen. Planning for an eventual fight against your neighbor (even in a precautionary way) is going to affect your behavior, your demeanor, and your interactions with them because you've thought about it, processed it, and are no longer in fear of it because you've prepared for it. This will bring about its own change in behavior that others will pick up on. Make yourself less of a target by showing goodwill and avoiding confrontation, not by walling yourself up and trying to play a game of "who can look tougher."
There's pessimism, optimism, and realism. Right now, you're borderlining pessimism - assuming the worst will happen. Plan to the extent you can, then leave it at that. Know that you have a plan, but don't focus on being ready to execute it.
Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring about its own worries.
Just my .02
I really like this statement and I like the philosophy behind it. Thank you for taking the time to write it as it is a lot about mindset and mentality as opposed to locking down the hatches and loading up the cannon... :)
So I feel like I need to speak up a bit again after some of the accusations that have been floated toward me in the last couple of days regarding this post. Here is a bit more background:
I have two jobs, I work at a University as an Adjunct/Lab Technician and I bartend/bounce/run security at a very rowdy and occasionally insane party bar (there are two nights I work completely alone, and my bar is known as the safest in town because of how I run it). The police in my town have a high level of respect for me and my coworkers as we are the only bar that handles our own environment responsibly and without having to have them involved all the time.
I am not a stranger to conflict in any way. I am also not a stranger to the "party scene", and unfortunately as a result the "drug scene". I grew up in a meth town, and I moved to another town plagued by meth (unknown to me) for my undergraduate degree.
If I was to call the police with the following information (maybe an LEO with a background in narcotics to chime in here...:) ), what do you think their response would be:
1. The people who moved in, in their fifties moved in with NY state plates on two cars. They moved in with a third person who promptly disappeared. Both NY state cars are now broken down and stripped of plates.
2. Tenants promptly make the house look lived in and are around the property daily like normal people.
3. A car from Florida shows up. A new guy shows up for several weeks. Car goes up on blocks, plates come off.
4. Two cars from Georgia show up, one stays on the property another comes and goes.
5. The house no longer looks lived in at all. Cars come and go at all hours of the night, every day, but no activity and no sign of tenants during the day.
6. Every weekend there is a large party that lasts all weekend long (no loud music, no drunken stumbling around like zombies) in which people stay up for almost 24 hours at a time on the porch and the party lasts for about 48 hours. Throughout the party numerous cars come and leave promptly.
You all can take that for what it is. You can call me paranoid but I'm not ****ing stupid, nor was a born yesterday.
Someone mentioned that my papa instinct may be kicking in right now, and clouding my judgment and you're probably right. But I came here to get some thoughts. I know that Steyr has dealt with people the likes of which I am talking about as well as others so I thought I would bring it here.
For the record we have tried to be cordial the entire time they have been next to us. We smiled, we waved, my wife made a point to go up to the porch and say welcome to the neighborhood. I tried to shake the guy's hand I thought was moving in (turns out he was just "surveying the property" before they moved in), and he refused to. I've been plenty cordial the entire time we've lived there and when I do get a chance to say hello, or have a nice day they simply ignore us.
As for the "pea cocking", there are two new additions to this ramshackle crew of people that strut around like their in a prison yard. They size up everyone that comes to our house, to our neighbors house, and when we wave they scowl. I've dealt with 1% biker clubs, Latin Kings, and Bloods at the bar I work at (we border Orange County NY, look it up) ((they've all promptly left and never come back)). I'm not naive and this is not my first picnic, but I thought I would reach out to the community to see what peoples thoughts are as this is the first time it's been literally right in my yard.
Like Steyr said, nothing has happened yet. But that doesn't change me wanting to hear people's thoughts.
I don't believe that simply because some parties their going to go on a murderous rampage, but I knew I would here some great thoughts from people that have lived through very similar situations in the past.
You won me over, just go burn it all down.
Wow...
I'm going to read through all the responses before I take the time to respond to this. You assume a lot about me with this post. My second job is as a bartender by the way, at a "gasp" party bar, full of young people you "gasp" may smoke a joint or two from time to time.
I know the difference between a frat party, and a drug operation. "Gasp", I have life experience, amazing... Who would have thought it.
There is nothing wrong whatsoever regarding your initial and subsequent tentative conclusions regarding the new neighbors. Nothing to justify to most of us, trust me.
montanadave
07-18-13, 17:07
You said you are on good terms with one of the local sheriff's deputies. Have him get you an intro with the sheriff and have a sit down (off the record), outline your concerns (providing the information stated above), and ask for some advice/feedback.
The situation, as you describe it, certainly sounds sketchy enough to warrant heightened vigilance on your part and some "friendly" attention from local law enforcement.
QuietShootr
07-18-13, 18:09
Why is it his responsibility to smooth over a situation he shouldn't have to put up with in the first place?
Whatever happened to "that would bother the neighbors?"
Why is it when some house full of inconsiderate turds show zero respect for those who live around them and bother everyone with their bullshit, the people who are being bothered must assume the responsibility of "asking" inconsiderate assholes to stop being inconsiderate assholes?
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I should move to a really peaceful and quiet neighborhood and blast shitty music at 2am, piss outdoors off of my front porch, take a shit in people's driveways and pass out drunk on my front lawn every morning. Maybe then everyone will be obligated to bring me some kind of gift and "request" that I stop being such a ****tard. Maybe they can buy me lunch and I'll turn my music down a little at 1am. If they send over a couple pizzas maybe I'll stop playing the drums in the front yard.
Because **** YOU, OLD MAN! I'm 25 and a bearded pussy-slaying wegro, and I don't take shit from anybody!
Was that about right?
Two words: BEAR TRAP
On a serious note, just do what you have to in order to keep the peace.
Trust me, I know for a fact that the shit heads across the street deal dope. I choose to simply inform my coworkers and let them deal with it, as I don't want to shit where I eat.
My understanding is that the OP has a child in the home. I think it would be a really bad idea to bring in a fully grown working dog. I couldn't imagine having a strange Rottweiler around my 4 year old.
Well there are other options, but my intent wasn't a fully trained working dog. My thoughts would be to look for a good GSD rescue and look for a younger dog. In my experience, they bond fast with the family and would be a great deterrent to any possible issues that could potentially land on the doorstep, regardless of training. A very high percentage of people will think twice about how they approach you just at the sight of the GSD or larger dog in general.
Suwannee Tim
07-18-13, 20:07
What proof is there that the neighbors are bad people, likely to commit violent acts against the OP and his family?
Did I say they are bad people? I don't know anything about them except that the OP has told us. I think they are unlikely to victimize Mac and his wife. I would stay cool based on that assumption.
I think the best news is that you don't have to stay there forever.
In the meantime, I think it's very wise of you to be so observant of what's going on, who's coming and going and how they act when they're there.
I like the idea of having local PD drive by during "party time" whether party is on-going or not. I can't imagine it could hurt and may be enough to at least make someone think twice before doing something dumb.
Sorry I don't have an experience that matches up well to give you as a "tried this and that happened" event for thought. Closest thing was unsavory tenants at one point who refused to pay a little thing called "rent" and first instinct was to grab 'em by the hair and toss 'em into the street. However, the way the laws are written, we had to go through the legal hoops and get by on not getting rent paid to us for nearly a year. Almost lost the property (we live downstairs and rent the upper floors) as a whole, but it worked out. Point being that we didn't get too nasty, too soon and end up on the wrong end of the law.
Might I suggest a monthly "M4C Bring your AR to Mac5.56's house" party to be had in broad daylight. Neighbors may just be influenced by thought of being annihilated by small army of your closest friends.
Although our buddies here in NY, Cuomo and Bloomberg just might not approve...and we certainly wouldn't want that.
One thing I've learned in my life- If someone lights up your Spidey Sense, pay attention because there's a good reason why
Doc Safari
07-19-13, 13:48
One thing I've learned in my life- If someone lights up your Spidey Sense, pay attention because there's a good reason why
Amen. I have enough experience to trust my instincts too. Sometimes being the nice guy and "asking nicely" is what gets you killed faster than anything because you are perceived as weak.
Now, as far as waiting until no one is home and burning their house down with a Molotov cocktail in the middle of the night--why, I would never suggest such a thing. ;)
One thing I've learned in my life- If someone lights up your Spidey Sense, pay attention because there's a good reason why
Yeah, this, and I've also learned that you win every fight you don't get into.
If the OP is leaving anyway, enjoy one of the benefits of renting and leave the problem behind for someone else to deal with.
Till then, keep a wary distance. It ain't your job to teach every loser how to be a good neighbor. Society would not appreciate your efforts, anyway.
Unfortunate situation and I feel for you. BTDT. Fortunately, I was able to resolve the conflict through some mediation by a neutral third party. That, coupled with the individual "maturing out" of some of the more objectionable behavior, defused the situation. But this took place over years, not months.
Some rather incendiary rhetoric here which, in my opinion, is neither helpful nor a wise approach to your situation. Making false reports of suspected drug activity is a bad idea. A really bad idea.
One thing I would do is make an appointment to speak with your local sheriff, go in, and spend a few minutes outlining your concerns. This accomplishes several things. It puts a face to your name, so if, in the future, you require assistance from the sheriff's office, you are a known quantity. You're the guy that came in and had a calm, rational discussion about your family's safety. And it puts you first in line. If there is a confrontation or conflict and there's a "he said, he said" kind of situation, you're gonna have a thumb on the scale.
The local LEO may also have some suggestions. Keeping a log of activities will probably be on that list. Vehicle license numbers, etc. He may also offer to provide some "heightened visibility" of law enforcement in your area. A few casual "drive-bys" can go a long way towards mitigating unruly or illegal activity.
I hope your situation improves soon and you and your family remain safe.
Sound advice here.
Some great advise on here, esp from Steyr. I too have lived beside & dealt with some shitbirds in my time. I have radar lock on one right now as a matter of fact.
I would definitely spring for better motion lights. I would also call the power company & have a light put on the pole if you have one at your house. Cameras are great, and even if you cannot buy a working system, get some fake ones. If you can't afford thatgoing around to local businesses with a heart felt plea might could net you their old working/non-working cameras that they have upgraded over time. I know several places in my area that have working high dollar, high resolution zoom analog cams sitting on a shelf collecting dust since they upgraded to digital. Think municipalities such as water treatment facilities & court houses. Never hurts to ask.
I would definitely get a dog, but just beware the exact type of people you have beside you are the kind to poison your dog without a 2nd thought. Had it happen in a damn near identical situation to a LEO Buddy's Brother where I live.
I would be hesitant letting them know you are armed. Most of your country-type Boogers (what I call folks like your neighbors) are usually well armed. Infact, I'll bet you if there are 5 meth smoking males living there, 1-2 has an obsession with either blades or guns. We had a local Booger that was batshit crazy but had an obsession with sniping. He had tapes/dvds/books, several ghillie suits & several rifles set up. He had a somewhat violent past. If he had ever decided to do a 72 hr Snipe-A-thon, it would have been a bad week. He is no longer with us, but rest assured there are plenty others like him where I live & you as well. His Brother had an obsession with meth & blades. He is in jail now for stabbing his mother and stepfather. Only one died. This happened in my juristiction.
You cannot reason with these types. If they are doped up, they are as alien as a Klingon. I don't know where you live, but if you have any LEO Friends, or can make some Friends with a take home car, it might very well be worth a case of beer & a steak to have a cruiser parked at your place every so often. Esp over night so to leave them guessing if you are LE or not. If you have a good number of LE friends, have them over for a cookout and have them drive their work vehicles. This can do wonders, as the types that live beside you want to be as far away from LE as possible.
If there are any kind of trails between you & them through the woods, a cheap trail cam on the path of travel of least resistance could be a great idea. I would also avoid the land lord. If they are obvious Boogers, he/she would know what they are prior to renting. It's very possible they are paying him with Ice or Pills or something to live there. Very common. If you watch them, you'll know if they are cooking. Signs are always burning something out doors, like trash. If they are slinging pills, they'll burn the pharmacy bottles they come in. They commonly buy a ton of sudafed & burn the blister packs & burn the cook bottles. If there is an out building & you see them going in/out empty handed every few-10 mins constantly, they are probably burping the bottle they are cooking in. They favored way they cook now, you will not have the odors you use to get, and the fire is used to mask any odor that does come out. They usually burn their cook bottles, but sometimes throw them from a car when leaving home. So look up shake & bake on youtube & walk your road to look for bottles like what you see in the videos. Keep a log of the vehicles that you see in & out. If they are slinging pills, you'll see the same suppliers car once-twice a month, like clockwork. This may be info you can give to the narcs at some point.
The best thing you can do is be the grey man. They'll be hyper paranoid. Not like someone who's on Pot & thinks that "everybody knows they smoked", but a "someone or everyone is out to get me paranoid". If you put up cameras, avoid obviously pointing them in the direction of their house. You don't want the crazy paranoid one of the bunch looking over (and TRUST ME, they will be watching you & your place like a hawk everyday) to see a camera pointed in his direction and him think you are the one out to get him. Make sure your wife can keep her cool, and this is no knock on your wife. Most every woman feels their man is their He-man. Plenty of guys are in the ground or in jail because of a situation their lady's mouth put them in. It's not about showing them who is the boss at any given moment, but letting the time be right to your advantage to come out on top of the situation. Make sure you two have it squared away prior what her job is during a confrontation & what yours is. Her's should be to protect your kids, either getting them in the car & leaving or taking off out through the woods to a good neighbor. Your's will be to cover them & keep harm away from them. Also make sure she knows that when you tell her to go do whatever, she does it and does not waste time arguing or playing the "I'm not leaving you" game. This stuff needs to be sorted out now, because you will not have time in the moment.
I feel for you Brother, as I know EXACTLY the situation you are in. I know how taxing on your nerves it can be. The one I currently have issue with is a known violent felon. He carved his ex up pretty bad with a knife & did time for attempted murder, and a life of other charges. Folks like that don't change & no matter what act they put on will always be who they are. I know with the work you are doing, time is tight, but think about joining the local LE agency as a reserve or constible. That will make a huge difference in how fast LE will respond to your house and give you ample opportunity, a crash course if you will, of how to deal with these types.
But above all else, keep your cool and do not make the tragic mistake of thinking that "they would never do that or go that far" or "that wouldn't happen here". It's not just them that are the problem, but their whole Booger Community. Odds are, it will be one of their buyers or friends who you'll have trouble with. Someone who doesn't live there buy owes them money or something. It is a shame life has to be this way.
Or you could always go out in their front yard with a shovel and start digging a hole.
^ Hootiewho - Outstanding post. That was good of you to spend your time and experience to help.
Being from a rural area with a bad meth/pill problem the insight others have shared with the OP are dead on correct.
I would add one fact. Most likely these problem neighbors are locals, or near locals (i.e. lived in the same county their whole lives). Their network of family and friends will be quite EXTENSIVE. These types will have numerous family members and friends who are into the exact same lifestyle. If you have an issue with one, I can GUARANTEE you will have never ending issues if you continue to live in the area. They will know most everything about you in no time and this type will carry a lifelong grudge.
ETA - This is why it is an excellent idea to keep a log with vehicle and subject characteristics. It will give you a valuable intelligence info for identifying where their friends/family live or frequent if you do have issues.
Best to play it cool for the duration of your time and try not to create future problems that will follow you.
Best of luck and prayers sent.
DreadPirateMoyer
07-22-13, 12:47
I'm also from a rural area (Pennsyltucky) and through my experiences can confirm what Hootie said, sprinkled in with Steyr's advice, is the best you can do. Hootie nailed it. I want to add more, but I can't, because really, he got all of it.
Alpha Sierra
07-22-13, 14:05
You won me over, just go burn it all down.
Plus 1
Steyr, I read this article today and couldn't help but think of you:
HUD's New 'Fair Housing' Rule Establishes Diversity Data for Every Neighborhood in U.S.
o ensure that "every American is able to choose to live in a community they feel proud of," HUD has published a new fair-housing regulation intended to give people access to better neighborhoods than the ones they currently live in.
The goal is to help communities understand "fair housing barriers" and "establish clear goals" for "improving integrated living patterns and overcoming historic patterns of segregation."
“This proposed rule represents a 21st century approach to fair housing, a step forward to ensuring that every American is able to choose to live in a community they feel proud of – where they have a fair shot at reaching their full potential in life,” said HUD Secretary Shaun Donovan.
“For the first time ever," Donovan added, "HUD will provide data for every neighborhood in the country, detailing the access African American, Latino, Asian, and other communities have to local assets, including schools, jobs, transportation, and other important neighborhood resources that can play a role in helping people move into the middle class."
The propaganda continues from there... http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/huds-new-fair-housing-rule-establishes-diversity-data-every-neighborhood-us
Alpha Sierra
07-22-13, 18:45
Steyr, I read this article today and couldn't help but think of you:
The propaganda continues from there... http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/huds-new-fair-housing-rule-establishes-diversity-data-every-neighborhood-us
Try as they might, they cannot stop us from excluding those we do no want amongst us.
There are certain things a government simply cannot do unless they do it via brute force. And people usually react violently to that.
Try as they might, they cannot stop us from excluding those we do no want amongst us.
There are certain things a government simply cannot do unless they do it via brute force. And people usually react violently to that.
Look man I'm not looking to give you a hard time or make fun but you're always offering this fantasy viewpoint. There has been no such revolution, the Civil War was over 150 years ago and was far different in a host of fundamental ways I will clarify if need be. Meantime despite your repeated assurances the fed fears absolutely nothing.
Let me say it again. At this date, July 22, 2013, the fed is not afraid of you in the least. They may be looking to arrest you but I'll absolutely promise they aren't even a little teeny tiny bit afraid.
Try as they might, they cannot stop us from excluding those we do no want amongst us.
There are certain things a government simply cannot do unless they do it via brute force. And people usually react violently to that.
LOL!
Very well put!
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
Steyr, I read this article today and couldn't help but think of you:
The propaganda continues from there... http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/huds-new-fair-housing-rule-establishes-diversity-data-every-neighborhood-us
So does that mean they will be moving me out of my working class redneck neighborhood and helping me live next door to affluent black people in my zip code?
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