View Full Version : What's the conventional wisdom regarding a full magazine plus one in the chamber?
I can't think of any time I've seen or read from anyone credible about loading up a full magazine, chambering a round, and then dropping the mag to replace that freshly chambered round. Is this widely done or just something out of videogames? I guess its kind of along the lines of an admin reload but I've been wondering for a while.
I know this is in the handguns subforum as I am mostly referring to CC, but I'm curious about any platform.
chitownpig
07-18-13, 01:46
I myself was taught to top off my mag after chambering a round in the Police academy and I've done it ever since. I also do the same with my off duty weapons. Reason being I'm assuming is that the more rounds you have access to if you are required to use your weapon the better. However I can also say that in a few of the handgun classes I've taken since have never mentioned topping off. Maybe its just personal preference?
Many instructors and departments advocate downloading one round in a handgun magazine to reduce spring wear (a whole debate unto itself), and also to make it easier to seat a fresh magazine during a closed-bolt reload, especially with Glocks. While I don't put so much stock into the whole spring wear issue (and there are people here far more qualified to discuss the physics of that than I am), I think that there's a lot of merit to the difficulty in seating some full loaded mags. To play it safe I chamber from an empty mag, then load my mag to one less than capacity.
Many instructors and departments advocate downloading one round in a handgun magazine to reduce spring wear (a whole debate unto itself), and also to make it easier to seat a fresh magazine during a closed-bolt reload, especially with Glocks. While I don't put so much stock into the whole spring wear issue (and there are people here far more qualified to discuss the physics of that than I am), I think that there's a lot of merit to the difficulty in seating some full loaded mags. To play it safe I chamber from an empty mag, then load my mag to one less than capacity.
I originally started the thread by mentioning this because I know LAV and many others (mostly old school) advocate downloading, but as you said, that's a whole other debate so I got rid of it.
Alaskapopo
07-18-13, 02:28
I can't think of any time I've seen or read from anyone credible about loading up a full magazine, chambering a round, and then dropping the mag to replace that freshly chambered round. Is this widely done or just something out of videogames? I guess its kind of along the lines of an admin reload but I've been wondering for a while.
I know this is in the handguns subforum as I am mostly referring to CC, but I'm curious about any platform.
Pretty much everyone does this with handguns. Its real world not video games. Its even more important on low capacity guns like 1911's. Now with rifles not so much. Pretty much everyone just puts a mag in and then charges the weapon and then checks (left right load or older school press check) to make sure the chamber was loaded. With shotguns We always load another one in the tube after racking one in if there is time.
Pat
One school of thought is that the round being stripped out of the magazine sets up the one beneath for proper feeding by pushing it slightly forward. It says that topping off the mag places greater pressure on the slide and in pushing the round back in the mag which moves it out of the ideal position for feeding, increases the chance of a first shot feed malfunction
As for myself, I've never noted a difference. The only problem I've had topping of the mag is being careless and not re-seating properly
In the whopping one pistol course I've attended the instructor routinely had us performing either admin reloads or tac reloads. He never specifically brought up the issue verbally of ejecting that magazine and topping it back off, but in practice what we continually ended up with was a chambered gun with a topped off magazine. It's never caused any issues for me.
I can't think of any time I've seen or read from anyone credible about loading up a full magazine, chambering a round, and then dropping the mag to replace that freshly chambered round. Is this widely done or just something out of videogames? I guess its kind of along the lines of an admin reload but I've been wondering for a while.
I know this is in the handguns subforum as I am mostly referring to CC, but I'm curious about any platform.
When I carried an 8 shot 9mm service pistol and was authorized only one spare magazine on my duty belt, it was a common practice to drop the magazine and top it off. Since magazine capacities are almost double that now, I am not an advocate of "topping off." I am of the opinion it places undue stress on the magazine spring and is not necessary with a 14+ shot pistol.
How many failures can be attributed to weak magazine springs? Magazines springs can be functional after very long periods of compression....and if you replace them every few years, there is next to no risk of failure....
I'd rather have the extra round.....just in case....
I always download a few round on any mag over 12 rounds.
Mag spring replacement isn't necessary if the springs are quality. They'll outlast the life of the pistol for sure.
In almost 10 years of carrying on and off duty, my Glock 17, 22 and 27 have always been carried topped off. This has been the academy standard for at least that long. Have not had an issue attributed to the topped off magazine.
-I carry and shoot with a WML whenever possible.
-I top off frequently during training, after coming off the reloading table or when doing in battery reloads.
-All magazines are full-capacity for that particular handgun
-I rotate magazines and recoil springs regularly.
-Duty ammo is expended at least 1X/year. it used to be every 6 mos.
Sample of 1. I'm sure this could be an issue with older guns, but IIRC this was fairly common practice for a while with 1911 users.
In my world this is called, "duty carry". Insert a magazine, chamber a round, then perform a magazine exchange before holstering, then top off that mag that is one round short.
srcochran49
07-18-13, 09:58
Topping off was SOP with my department. I never had a problem as a result, and don't know of anyone who did.
This was my experience with a broad spectrum of weapons, from 1911's, S&W, Beretta, and H&K handguns.
However, in SRT, we did download our AR mags by one or two rounds. This seemed to be fairly standard with most people utilizing AR's at that time, and was done for reliable feeding reasons.
For any pistol I am carrying on duty, I always top off the magazine. I think you will find that pretty standard in LE.
Off duty, I will top off lower capacity pistols, such as 1911s. There are just not that many rounds to start with, so the extra round added makes a difference. For higher capacity pistols, such as a G19, it depends on the pistol, and how hard it is to seat the topped off magazine. I have one Gen3 G19 that you really have to push to get the topped off mag to seat, so that one remains downloaded. My other Gen3 and a Gen2 seat a topped off magazine as easily as they seat a mag with the slide locked back, so those mags get topped off.
diving dave
07-18-13, 10:12
I carry a 1911 on duty, and always top off (8 rd mag, 1 in the pipe). Never had any issues
I can't think of any time I've seen or read from anyone credible about loading up a full magazine, chambering a round, and then dropping the mag to replace that freshly chambered round. Is this widely done or just something out of videogames? I guess its kind of along the lines of an admin reload but I've been wondering for a while.
I know this is in the handguns subforum as I am mostly referring to CC, but I'm curious about any platform.
I think you need to expand your definition of "credible", as full magazines under loaded chambers has been effective and a norm for many years. Be careful with that, else you exclude a lot of folks with something to offer.
That being said, if you are not able to readily seat a fully loaded magazine under a rifle or pistol action in battery, it may be prudent to download the mag by 1-2 rounds.
Thanks guys, I had no idea that so many people did that.
SmokinSigs357
07-18-13, 10:50
Not only do I do it, but most companies advocate for it. Look at their specs, many times you will see a firearm that has a magazine capacity of "whatever" and then they will add the, "+ 1" for those of us that chamber, drop, and add.
No biggie, just an extra round.
QuietShootr
07-18-13, 11:18
Thanks guys, I had no idea that so many people did that.
I had no idea that anyone DIDN'T do that. Of course, there are the empty chamber carry twits, so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.
Dos Cylindros
07-18-13, 11:30
I think the reason you don't see it addressed during drills at a training course is that it is impractical and would eat up a bunch of time. If you had to hold the course of fire for everyone to top off their mags after they made the gun ready (assuming you are not running a hot range to begin with) it would make it tough to get anything done.
I have been carrying a gun professionaly for 15 years now and teaching other LEO's for 8. On duty or off duty I carry with a full mag and one int he chamber. I don't download anything but my Carbine mags and that is just for ease of seating the mag. My department has, or I purchase extra magazine springs to change out when I feel or see a need. To me, the more rounds in the gun and ready to go the better.
QuickStrike
07-18-13, 12:25
I definitely top off pistols. With rifles I download one or two rounds, especially in cold weather when the action can get more sluggish from excessive grease. This after my scar 17 had a failure to feed once at the range when it was real cold.
IIRC Larry Vickers recommend downloading the mags for FALs and since Scar 17's use FAL mags...
The pistol is usually carried close to the body, and doesnt get cold enough to be sluggish imo.
When I carried a 1911, I topped it off. I stopped when I switched to Glocks.
Okie John
Always top off my mags.
Not sure why anyone wouldn't want that extra round?
What if you need it?
Kinda silly in my opinion not to utulize the full capacity of your magazines.
Psalms144.1
07-18-13, 13:44
I always top off the magazine in the well after chambering a round. I've carried Sigs, Glocks, and HKs in various chamberings for decades now, and have shot countless thousands of rounds from that configuration, and never had a problem with feeding from the topped off magazine.
Now, I have seen Glock magazines that were near impossible to get a "full load" into, and I've seen people have trouble fully seating one of those "topped off" Glock mags when the slide is forward. If you have one of those magazines (or lots of them), downloading seems prudent - but, then again, just ditching a magazine that doesn't work as designed seems even more prudent...
Regards,
Kevin
For any pistol I am carrying on duty, I always top off the magazine. I think you will find that pretty standard in LE.
Off duty, I will top off lower capacity pistols, such as 1911s. There are just not that many rounds to start with, so the extra round added makes a difference. For higher capacity pistols, such as a G19, it depends on the pistol, and how hard it is to seat the topped off magazine. I have one Gen3 G19 that you really have to push to get the topped off mag to seat, so that one remains downloaded. My other Gen3 and a Gen2 seat a topped off magazine as easily as they seat a mag with the slide locked back, so those mags get topped off.
I have the same issue with my G23, with 13 in the mag it take a
very firm push to seat the mag. With 12 rds much less.
I don't like the feeling that I'm "forcing" the mag in.
Very common to do it with a pistol. Not as common to do it with a rifle. If you're properly checking and maintaining your gear for wear/tear then it should never cause any problems with either. Enjoy the +1 capacity.
This is more commentary and question than it is an answer, but here are my thoughts:
From reading through Glock and 1911 threads, I have learned that positive or "correct" ejection is very dependent on the spring tension of the magazine as the lower round and spring supports the spent casing as it is extracted and ejected.
I would wonder if having a full magazine, which can often be difficult to seat, would have a positive or negative effect on cycling and ejection.
This is more commentary and question than it is an answer, but here are my thoughts:
From reading through Glock and 1911 threads, I have learned that positive or "correct" ejection is very dependent on the spring tension of the magazine as the lower round and spring supports the spent casing as it is extracted and ejected.
I would wonder if having a full magazine, which can often be difficult to seat, would have a positive or negative effect on cycling and ejection.
Where did you read this? Wherever you read that it is wrong. Please cite your reference.
If that was true there would be MANY recurring problems across the board with people not being able to extract/eject the last round in their Glock or 1911.
Where did you read this? Wherever you read that it is wrong. Please cite your reference.
If that was true there would be MANY recurring problems across the board with people not being able to extract/eject the last round in their Glock or 1911.
I read it from Grant's postings in his thread on erratic ejection.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=100613
Perhaps I took it out of context or exaggerated it, but it would seem that magazine spring tension, as well as the support of another round/follower, does seem to play some part in proper and reliable ejection.
Failure2Stop
07-18-13, 17:28
Given the option/opportunity, I +1 everything.
Moose-Knuckle
07-18-13, 19:33
I had no idea that anyone DIDN'T do that. Of course, there are the empty chamber carry twits, so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.
I know right, in another thread I've learned that some M4C members do not carry a single spare mag for there CCW. For some it cramps their fashion sense . . . :blink:
RogerinTPA
07-18-13, 19:47
I had no idea that anyone DIDN'T do that. Of course, there are the empty chamber carry twits, so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.
Agreed. I thought most people topped off the mag after chambering a round, except for the very nervous empty chamber crowd.
The Dumb Gun Collector
07-18-13, 22:01
I never do. For about a decade I carried a P7 and I always topped it off and, as you might expect, it was really relaible. Once I started fooling around with Glocks I started down loading on the advice of instructors who pointed out that they were more difficult to seat under pressure.
These days I usually carry a J-frame or an HK45c. The HK45c usually sits beside the bed with a 10 round mag that I never top off. Not a big deal either way. Oh, and I don't carry a spare mag either. One day...the zombies will make me pay for my arrogance.
I always top off, I don't really see any reason not too.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
I always load the chamber with a loose round then slap the mag in. easier than juggling.
LAV does advocate downloading a mag, but the impression I got from his sermon is it had more to do with reloads. eg, the mag you leave home with in the pistol can be max but any extra mags would be 1 downloaded (or however many down it takes so that you can push the top round down below the feed lips). the issues arise when you don't have time (or take time) to make sure the mag is seated properly.
I also think that different weapons respond differently to mag spring tension (Glocks maybe more sensitive to this than others). and it's an old wives tale that springs "wear out" quicker under tension.
Crow Hunter
07-19-13, 12:25
I always load the chamber with a loose round then slap the mag in. easier than juggling.
LAV does advocate downloading a mag, but the impression I got from his sermon is it had more to do with reloads. eg, the mag you leave home with in the pistol can be max but any extra mags would be 1 downloaded (or however many down it takes so that you can push the top round down below the feed lips). the issues arise when you don't have time (or take time) to make sure the mag is seated properly.
I also think that different weapons respond differently to mag spring tension (Glocks maybe more sensitive to this than others). and it's an old wives tale that springs "wear out" quicker under tension.
Don't do this.
Eventually you will chip your extractor. The extractor on most auto-handguns aren't designed to "snap" over the cartridge rim, the rim is supposed to slide up under the extractor from the magazine.
The sharp edge of the extractor can chip out causing you to have extraction issues.
Crow Hunter
07-19-13, 12:44
Where did you read this? Wherever you read that it is wrong. Please cite your reference.
If that was true there would be MANY recurring problems across the board with people not being able to extract/eject the last round in their Glock or 1911.
The magazine in a Glock definitely affects ejection.
Many Glocks will not eject an extracted case without a magazine in place. They will fall out of the magazine well more often than not. (All 7 of mine do this to one degree or another )
There is a much larger distance between the back of the fired case in a Glock and the ejector than that of a Sig or M&P. On other weapons the case will hit the ejector practically the same time as the case mouth clears the ejection port.
On the Glock it has to travel back an 1/16th of a inch or so before it strikes the ejector. If there is no magazine follower or cartridge stack pushing up on the casing, it will often slip out of the grip of the extractor and drop out of the bottom when the ejector hits the rim in the wrong place. This is one of the root causes of the Glock having a variable ejection pattern that aren't as apparent on other makes.
This also means the Glock will almost always go into battery even with an incredibly weak recoil spring (No ejector drag on the loading case) and there is no stress on the gun when removing a live round from the chamber. (The ejector doesn't hit the back of the case until the cartridge, inlcuding the bullet is nearly clear of the chamber.
If you slowly open a M&P with a dummy round you will wince as you watch the ejector twist and bend to accomodate the "bullet" in the nose of dummy round as it is trying to push the case out of the action. If you slowly close the M&P you will also see the "ejector drag" where it slightly interferes with the cartridge going smoothly into the chamber often causing a feedway stoppage. The Glock will feed normally at practically any forward slide speed.
1 in the pipe and full mag(s) in all my carry & duty guns going on 14yrs now...zero issue
Sig 229's
Glock 17's
1911's sprinkled in
Failure2Stop
07-19-13, 12:57
Don't do this.
Eventually you will chip your extractor. The extractor on most auto-handguns aren't designed to "snap" over the cartridge rim, the rim is supposed to slide up under the extractor from the magazine.
The sharp edge of the extractor can chip out causing you to have extraction issues.
This is mostly a traditional 1911 issue.
Definitely "better" to chamber a round from a magazine, but modern pistols are far more accommodating to the practice.
Crow Hunter
07-19-13, 13:05
This is mostly a traditional 1911 issue.
Definitely "better" to chamber a round from a magazine, but modern pistols are far more accommodating to the practice.
I will defer to your experience.
I have always heard to never do this, so I never have and since I have never had an extactor chip, I took it as gospel.:D
Failure2Stop
07-19-13, 13:21
I will defer to your experience.
I have always heard to never do this, so I never have and since I have never had an extactor chip, I took it as gospel.:D
You are definitely taking the safer road by doing so, no reason to recommend any other method, I simply wanted to clarify the statement.
If I'm carrying my 1911, I do chamber a round and them refill the mag. if I'm carrying my glock 22 I don't refill the mag. I love the 1911, but 7 rounds seems like a bare minimum so I carry it with 8.
From my mobile phone
Don't do this.
Eventually you will chip your extractor. The extractor on most auto-handguns aren't designed to "snap" over the cartridge rim, the rim is supposed to slide up under the extractor from the magazine.
The sharp edge of the extractor can chip out causing you to have extraction issues.
interesting, first time I've heard this. the shape of the extractor and the fact that it's spring-loaded suggest that snapping over a rim are intended for normal use.
thanks for the tip.
From the federal side of uniformed LEA, we were taught to top off mags for "duty carry". However, we download each time we begin a qual so that the shooting iteration forces an emergency reload. The FI will say "for training purposes only", all other times you will be +1 for duty carry.
I've done this before FLETC with my CCW, it just makes sense if you have the option. However, I've never felt the need to +1 any rifle for some reason even if the logic would have been the same.
Where did you read this? Wherever you read that it is wrong. Please cite your reference.
If that was true there would be MANY recurring problems across the board with people not being able to extract/eject the last round in their Glock or 1911.
Not necessarily. Many glocks that fail the 1911 extractor test extract just fine under normal circumstances (i.e. with a magazine inserted), either by using the next round or the follower to guide the empty casing into the ejector. Whether this is ideal or not remains up for debate, but many glocks (and other modern pistols) have been working this way for quite some time now.
Plumber237
07-19-13, 22:59
I top off my glock 19 mag. However, I do also download my mags by one since I use the Vicker's base plates. The addition of the plates makes it tough to seat with a full 15, but to me it's worth it, those base plates are awesome...
1_click_off
07-19-13, 23:12
I just can't see a manufacturer designing a pistol and then half ass design a mag for it. If it is designed for X number of rounds, I put X number of rounds in it. If it is the one going in my pistol, I load a round in the mag, chamber that round, then eject it and put the designed amount of rounds in it. If it runs great, if it gives issues then I look for a solution.
For me, I had 1 gun in my collection I had to download mags for. One of the first Gen3 G27. Once it had about half a box of shells through it, the last round would not feed if I loaded to capacity. Did it with all 4 mags.
I always load the chamber with a loose round then slap the mag in. easier than juggling.LAV does advocate downloading a mag, but the impression I got from his sermon is it had more to do with reloads. eg, the mag you leave home with in the pistol can be max but any extra mags would be 1 downloaded (or however many down it takes so that you can push the top round down below the feed lips). the issues arise when you don't have time (or take time) to make sure the mag is seated properly.
I also think that different weapons respond differently to mag spring tension (Glocks maybe more sensitive to this than others). and it's an old wives tale that springs "wear out" quicker under tension.
For years we trained our people to load the chamber from the magazine, then top off the magazine to avoid undue stress on the extractor. Our armorers complained about having to replace extractors for personnel who dropped a loose round in the chamber, then close the slide instead of loading from a magazine.
Let's keep the thread on the merits and liabilities of loading capacity +1/. There are other threads discussing extraction issues and the validity of the 1911 extractor test in other systems.
johnnybravo
07-20-13, 08:26
It all depends on how you train with your weapon. My s&w 40c has no safety selector so I dont keep one in the pipe. When chaos ensues and everyone is ducking for cover I can chamber one just as easy as I could work a safety. By the time im on target there is one ready to go. it doesn't take any more time. One more round isn't going to matter If you have extra mags anyway. I usually carry 2 extra hi cap mags for the stubborn.
Shot placement is all that matters.
if i had a 1911 or something similar I'd definitely keep one in but with my 40c just doesn't seem smart. All I need is to take out my femoral before the fight starts! Great info and forum!
It all depends on how you train with your weapon. My s&w 40c has no safety selector so I dont keep one in the pipe. When chaos ensues and everyone is ducking for cover I can chamber one just as easy as I could work a safety. By the time im on target there is one ready to go. it doesn't take any more time. One more round isn't going to matter If you have extra mags anyway. I usually carry 2 extra hi cap mags for the stubborn.
Shot placement is all that matters.
if i had a 1911 or something similar I'd definitely keep one in but with my 40c just doesn't seem smart. All I need is to take out my femoral before the fight starts! Great info and forum!
:nono:
I know Skintop wanted to keep this on track regarding loading magazines to capacity, but this is as dumb as the day is long!
Read more; here's a good start: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=125864
Put yourself on a timer. Use sims or other force on force, where the target isn't just waiting for you. Do it 1 handed, as if you were already fighting, or stabbed, or shot. Take a class. If you want to carry, and don't feel safe with a striker fired pistol (with passive, and proven safeties) with one in the chamber, then go with something with a manual safety and train with it.
johnnybravo
07-20-13, 10:20
There are the worst case scenarios also where the wrong person ends up with your weapon whether an attack from behind or whatever. It happens to cops and they have real world experience everyday and tons of training but it can still happen.
Practicing and training and certificates are nice and all but I still wouldn't want a round chambered in that situation. The time it takes them to realize the gun isn't firing may be time I need to fight for my life and possibly my family's lives. There are many situations you can prepare for but that one is what keeps me on point.
I was trained to top-off my mags after loading to have a full gun. I never really thought about it, but it makes sense. Why be short a round?
Alaskapopo
07-20-13, 10:44
It all depends on how you train with your weapon. My s&w 40c has no safety selector so I dont keep one in the pipe. When chaos ensues and everyone is ducking for cover I can chamber one just as easy as I could work a safety. By the time im on target there is one ready to go. it doesn't take any more time. One more round isn't going to matter If you have extra mags anyway. I usually carry 2 extra hi cap mags for the stubborn.
Shot placement is all that matters.
if i had a 1911 or something similar I'd definitely keep one in but with my 40c just doesn't seem smart. All I need is to take out my femoral before the fight starts! Great info and forum!
With respect your in need of training. Chamber empty carry is crazy and will get you killed. You don't need a safety to carry one in the pipe. The time it takes to rack the slide is the time it may take for you to die because you could not react fast enough. In law enforcement we do not carry empty chamber.
Pat
Failure2Stop
07-20-13, 10:55
There are the worst case scenarios also where the wrong person ends up with your weapon whether an attack from behind or whatever. It happens to cops and they have real world experience everyday and tons of training but it can still happen.
Practicing and training and certificates are nice and all but I still wouldn't want a round chambered in that situation. The time it takes them to realize the gun isn't firing may be time I need to fight for my life and possibly my family's lives. There are many situations you can prepare for but that one is what keeps me on point.
Dude, if you don't feel safe carrying with a round in the chamber, don't, but your stated reasons have been proven incorrect for adequately trained and prepared individuals.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Alaskapopo
07-20-13, 11:25
Dude, if you don't feel safe carrying with a round in the chamber, don't, but your stated reasons have been proven incorrect for adequately trained and prepared individuals.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
I feel if you don't feel safe carrying a round in the chamber your not ready to carry a weapon.
Pat
There are the worst case scenarios also where the wrong person ends up with your weapon whether an attack from behind or whatever. It happens to cops and they have real world experience everyday and tons of training but it can still happen.
Practicing and training and certificates are nice and all but I still wouldn't want a round chambered in that situation. The time it takes them to realize the gun isn't firing may be time I need to fight for my life and possibly my family's lives. There are many situations you can prepare for but that one is what keeps me on point.
If you're carrying concealed and someone is able to take your weapon out of your holster before you can react, you are wrong.
ive always topped a mag off, but its more important to me now more than ever since I have "downsized" from a Glock 19 as my primary carry to the PPS and a Nano. (not at the same time of course, I just happen to pick up a Nano dirt cheap a while back and im struggling to decide which one I prefer.)
I feel if you don't feel safe carrying a round in the chamber your not ready to carry a weapon.
Pat
This exactly. It appears you have little ( or no ) training. Things happen extremely fast, and if you think you can react, draw, rack a round and shoot before something happens to you, in most cases you will be sucking pond water. Kind of like having an empty fire extinguisher in your house. Re-think the whole CCW thing if you aren't going to get proper training for you to be confident.
I can't think of any time I've seen or read from anyone credible about loading up a full magazine, chambering a round, and then dropping the mag to replace that freshly chambered round. Is this widely done or just something out of videogames? I guess its kind of along the lines of an admin reload but I've been wondering for a while.
I know this is in the handguns subforum as I am mostly referring to CC, but I'm curious about any platform.
Thats the way I do it. And since my EDC stays loaded at all times it's not something I have to do on a daily basis.
It all depends on how you train with your weapon.
Hopefully you're fully trained up on racking the slide with a single hand...
Strange thing with my new-made-last-year M9,the mags will hold 16 but forget cramming them in the gun you have to chamber the extra to get it in the gun with the slide closed.
I always "top off" and run with a full mag plus one in the pipe.
I've never thought that the one extra round would make or break my chances of surviving a potential gunfight, which of course I always try to avoid. However, all things being equal, why not take every item of advantage one can? Lately I do top off my carry and nightstand guns, but for a long time I didn't and hardly ever thought about it.
Always +1 for my pistols (fully loaded mag in gun, round chambered).
I always +1 the mag in the gun. Depending on the pistol and it's track record for tac-reloading a full mag on a loaded chamber I have ownloaded my spare mag by one in the past, but it's not been an issue on my current carry G26 and G19.
I've owned the fnp series in each caliber and in every case inserting a full mag required extreme effort--especially the .45 version, which required Herculean effort. I think that FN's desire was to have a really high capacity mag to outdo the competition. With such strong upward pressure I see a high probability of retarding rearward slide movement.
My view has been that pocket pistol size autos are finicky to begin with and thus might operate better with a downloaded mag.
Guys working in departments without a good armorer program may experience equipment deterioration. Perhaps these officers may fare better by not topping off their mags.
I will take the extractor/ejector & magazine spring issue into the other thread. But still sticking with yes, everyone should +1. And love this quote Wake -
If you're carrying concealed and someone is able to take your weapon out of your holster before you can react, you are wrong.
I always +1 the mag in the gun. Depending on the pistol and it's track record for tac-reloading a full mag on a loaded chamber I have ownloaded my spare mag by one in the past, but it's not been an issue on my current carry G26 and G19.
I do the same. I edited it out for the sake of brevity.
That also gives you a place to put the chambered round if you have to unload the gun, say for airline travel, or range use where you don't want to fire any of the carry ammo on that particular visit.
I've been breaking in a new Kahr P380. For the first 100 rounds, I only loaded 5 cartridges at a time in the magazine. The pistol seemed to cycle fine as long as I kept my thumb tucked down away from the slide and slide stop. When I started loading 6+1 the slide would prematurely lock back after the first shot about half the time. This continued over the next 200 rounds, when loaded 6+1, until the slide stop was modified.
I think +1 carry in pistols is generally wise. However, in this case, it revealed a serious reliability issue.
I've been breaking in a new Kahr P380. For the first 100 rounds, I only loaded 5 cartridges at a time in the magazine. The pistol seemed to cycle fine as long as I kept my thumb tucked down away from the slide and slide stop. When I started loading 6+1 the slide would prematurely lock back after the first shot about half the time. This continued over the next 200 rounds, when loaded 6+1, until the slide stop was modified.
I think +1 carry in pistols is generally wise. However, in this case, it revealed a serious reliability issue.
Welcome to Kahr Arms.
Yes, I either top off or chamber a round using a extra magazine.
+1. Every day. All the time.
I myself was taught to top off my mag after chambering a round in the Police academy and I've done it ever since. I also do the same with my off duty weapons. Reason being I'm assuming is that the more rounds you have access to if you are required to use your weapon the better. However I can also say that in a few of the handgun classes I've taken since have never mentioned topping off. Maybe its just personal preference?
Same boat..taught that way at the academy...why wouldn't you want an extra round?
All of my Glocks are downloaded by 1-2 rounds prior to loading in the gun; it makes non-slidelock reloads significantly easier/reliable, as there's plenty of room for the top cartridge to be depressed by the slide's feed rail, and for the magazine catch to easily latch.
I've anecdotally that such downloading also increased the magazine tube (due to diminished wear on the magazine catch recess) and magazine catch life, but I download primarily for the reasons discussed above. I always carry at least 1 spare magazine.
Best, Jon
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