View Full Version : Criterion 223 Wylde barrels
I'm in the market for a .223wylde barrel and the only place I have been able to find them in stock is Brownell's. I'd prefer WOA or Rainier, but those are out and who knows when they'll be back.
I did some research and learned that Criterion is/was Kreiger. So my question/s is/are: are they still Kreiger? If not, is the quality still there? In closing, is this worth the purchase?
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/ar15-m16-criterion-barrels-prod54733.aspx?avs|Make_3=AR-15zz1zzM4&avs|Cartridge_1=AJO_223 Wylde
Criterion barrels are very good. Not as accurate as a Kreiger but not as expensive. Criterion was started by Kreiger
http://criterionbarrels.com/about.html
http://criterionbarrels.com/ProductPages/AR15.html
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/
Criterion are buttoned barrels made by Krieger.
Roger that.
ordering.
thanks.
polymorpheous
07-19-13, 01:11
Nevermind.
Different barrel.
I believe the 5,56 NATO Match/SAM-R is different from the Wylde. From what I understand, the 5,56 is better for NATO, but still not as good as the Wylde for .223rem.
narcedglocker
07-19-13, 08:07
thanks for starting this thread, its a huge help for my SPR inspired build.
The_Hammer_Man
07-19-13, 08:20
I use Criterion barrels in both 5.56 and .223 Wylde chambering exclusively for my customers that require chrome lined barrels and match grade accuracy. I use Krieger for those customers that require stainless.
It's not unusual to see an upper equipped with one of these barrels to shoot 1/2" groups with boring regularity.
And yes, the ONLY difference between Krieger and Criterion is that Criterion does button rifling and Krieger uses cut rifling.
BTW.. I am a stocking dealer for Criterion and Krieger. Contact me via PM if you have questions.
DreadPirateMoyer
11-30-13, 20:41
Figured I'd bump this thread instead of starting a new one. Does anyone have any further experience with these? In particular, does anyone have experience with the chrome-lined Criterion barrels from Brownells?
I find them really tempting and am about to pull the trigger to take advantage of the 10% off deal this weekend, but I don't know if Criterion barrels are HPT/MPI, how accurate their chrome-lined barrels are, if they're gassed properly, etc. I absolutely love the idea of a 1/8 twist, 20" chrome-lined precision barrel, but want to know more.
Anyone have any of the more technical details on these guys? Barrels in question: http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/ar15-m16-criterion-barrels-prod54733.aspx
Had two barrels from these gents - both of mine were spectacular barrels...
http://www.superiorbarrels.com/Our%20Barrels.htm
http://www.shop.superiorbarrels.com/main.sc
Have you had any reliability issues with them, as they state they use 223 Wylde chambers that are on the TIGHT side. I would like to try this one. http://www.shop.superiorbarrels.com/product.sc?productId=128&categoryId=11
guitarist1993
11-30-13, 23:19
Have you had any reliability issues with them, as they state they use 223 Wylde chambers that are on the TIGHT side. I would like to try this one. http://www.shop.superiorbarrels.com/product.sc?productId=128&categoryId=11
Based on what I can see from their website, I have the same barrel in a stainless finish, although I bought mine direct from CLE. It's been a little picky about ammo, namely, reloads that cycle fine in my PSA 5.56 chamber failing to go all the way into battery and sticking. But some other reloads, and factory new ammo, work great, and it shoots much better than I can. I did some accuracy testing with it the other day and I'm sure if I was better at shooting groups, it could have put all 10 rounds of MK262 in a .5" hole
The_Hammer_Man
11-30-13, 23:30
To answer any questions about Criterion's reliability issues... there aren't any. I've been using their barrels for my builds for over 2 yrs and have never had a single issue that wasn't ammo related.
In fact I liked their barrels so much I became a stocking dealer for them. The ONLY problem I've had with Criterion barrels is that I run out of them so fast :)
Criterion button rifled barrels have basically replaced every stainless barrel I've ever mounted. This includes my customers.
Why go to that kind of trouble and expense right? Stainless barrels don't last as long ( round count wise) as a CMCL barrel does. I have a 16" middy upper that I built that has about 11k rounds through it and it's still 1/2MOA. (using quality match ammo)
And yes I still have a few in stock.. pm if you're insterested.
DreadPirateMoyer
11-30-13, 23:31
Had two barrels from these gents - both of mine were spectacular barrels...
http://www.superiorbarrels.com/Our%20Barrels.htm
http://www.shop.superiorbarrels.com/main.sc
Are these made by Criterion? I must be missing the info, if so. If not...what does this have to do with Criterion barrels?
Try it with the same bolt that is in your PSA chambered upper.
Criterion are buttoned barrels made by Krieger.
This is only partially true. Criterion was once a division of, but has been spun off on its own. Different company, different people, good lineage. Criterion also caters to the OEM market.
Are these made by Criterion? I must be missing the info, if so. If not...what does this have to do with Criterion barrels?
Superior uses Compass Lake turned barrels, which for the most part are sourced from Douglas, Kreiger and Bartlien.
DreadPirateMoyer
12-01-13, 00:14
Gotcha. I just didn't understand what it had to do with Criterion. I guess nothing?
And yeah, I thought they were heavy on OEM stuff, including BCM barrels of certain flavors. I just didn't know how the chrome-lined Criterion barrels themselves were made since they may not build their own barrels to the same spec as the ones they build for BCM.
Have you had any reliability issues with them, as they state they use 223 Wylde chambers that are on the TIGHT side. I would like to try this one. http://www.shop.superiorbarrels.com/product.sc?productId=128&categoryId=11
Zero issues, but I only fired factory loads through them up to 75 grain. And I apologize for posting this, I just wanted to throw out another good quality option, with a melonite coating.
Just asking: is the fact Criterion uses 4140 steel a significant factor since mil spec calls for 4150, which is considered a superior carbon steel? I realized most carbon steel barrels made in the US are 4140.
NOT knocking Criterion, as that would have been my purchase had I not found the Ranier Select which had the lighter profile I was after.
Mark
The devil is in the details. I read somewhere that 4150 CMV dissipates heat a little faster than 4140 CM. In real world applications, it will take many rounds fired to wear out a modern barrel, whether it's stainless steel, 4150, 4140 or even 4130 steel. Criterion makes a good barrel with very good consistency for one with a chromed bore
Figured I'd bump this thread instead of starting a new one. Does anyone have any further experience with these? In particular, does anyone have experience with the chrome-lined Criterion barrels from Brownells?
I find them really tempting and am about to pull the trigger to take advantage of the 10% off deal this weekend, but I don't know if Criterion barrels are HPT/MPI, how accurate their chrome-lined barrels are, if they're gassed properly, etc. I absolutely love the idea of a 1/8 twist, 20" chrome-lined precision barrel, but want to know more.
Anyone have any of the more technical details on these guys? Barrels in question: http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/ar15-m16-criterion-barrels-prod54733.aspx
Per Criterion customer service today, their chrome lined barrels are made out of either 4140 or 41450 depending on the material availability. These barrels are not HPT/ MPI tested. These barrels are stamp coded, so one could determine the barrel steel used in their barrel if one desired to call in the code and find out.
Chrome-lined, button rifled barrels feature 223 Wylde chambers and 1-8" twist for enhanced accuracy potential with both .223 and 5.56 NATO ammunition. Unique chrome-lining process maintains uniformity throughout the bore and hand-lapping helps ensure smooth, consistent lands and grooves. Gas ports are optimized for barrel length and chambering to help ensure reliable cycling, and are available for carbine, mid-length, and rifle gas systems. Also features 1/2"-28 tpi muzzle threads for standard comps and flash hiders, plus M4 feed ramps on barrel extension to aid in smooth, reliable feeding, Hybrid contour barrels have a reduced and tapered contour under the handguard to save weight. HBAR contour barrels feature .870" diameter under the handguard for rigidity and extra heat absorption.
Length – 16, 18, or 20 inch. Profile – Hybrid or HBAR (18” & 20” only). Gas system – Carbine or Mid-Length (16”). Rifle (18” & 20”). Chamber - 223 Wylde. Finish - Parkerized. Chrome lined. Construction - 4140/50 Chrome Moly Steel. Hand Lapped. Includes barrel extension with M4 feedramps. Dimensions - .750” OD at the gas port. 1.9” length at gas block. Threads – ½-28
Chrome-lining will extend the life of your barrel and make it easier to clean. It is commonly thought that chrome-lining degrades the accuracy of the barrel. This is because during the chrome-lining process, material is chemically removed from the bore and then built back up with chrome, destroying the bore uniformity.
*** At Criterion Barrels, Inc., our unique chrome-lining process maintains bore uniformity, providing you with the advantages of a chrome-lined barrel without sacrificing accuracy. ***
DreadPirateMoyer
12-02-13, 12:20
Dang. Sucks to hear they're not HPT/MPI. I'm also not a fan of a coin's flip deciding what steel my barrel is. Good to know that info, thank you.
And yeah, I saw the rest of that on their website. I guess the last question I have then is port size on the 20".
Mehhh. I was really looking forward to using one of these barrels. Now I'm not. Blegh.
Some notes on HPT/MPI form an old thread. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php%3F50559-Some-notes-on-HPT-MPI&sa=U&ei=AtWcUryzKoHZrgHVxYDgAw&ved=0CAYQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNHMRL-x7RfCZkZlGcy0jPODB9fH7Q
Dang. Sucks to hear they're not HPT/MPI. I'm also not a fan of a coin's flip deciding what steel my barrel is. Good to know that info, thank you.
And yeah, I saw the rest of that on their website. I guess the last question I have then is port size on the 20".
Mehhh. I was really looking forward to using one of these barrels. Now I'm not. Blegh.
You're worried you won't be certain which of two excellent barrel steels it'll be made of?
HPT is not needed in a modern barrel. They've got steel refining & barrel making down to a science
DreadPirateMoyer
12-02-13, 17:45
You're worried you won't be certain which of two excellent barrel steels it'll be made of?
HPT is not needed in a modern barrel. They've got steel refining & barrel making down to a science
HPT may not be, and I actually don't even support the practice anymore, but MPI still is valuable to me regardless of how good the steel is. And yes, I'm worried that I won't know ahead of time which steel I'm getting. I know what I want in my rifle, and it's not a coin flip on 4140 or 4150 regardless of their minor or perceived differences. It's especially disconcerting since not all 4140s are the same, and not all 4150s are the same, and it's not even known which of them they use when they do use one or the other. Too many unknown variables for me here.
All that's left is gas port size, though I'd bet it's 0.093 since their lineage is traced from Krieger and that's what Krieger uses.
DreadPirateMoyer
12-03-13, 22:53
Welp, went with a Criterion 20" HBAR barrel anyway despite my misgivings due to a great deal I got on a new one.
As a base of comparison, do any precision barrel companies HPT/MPI their barrels? Looking around, I don't really see it advertised on anyone's websites, and I feel like that would be a selling point. Maybe Criterion isn't alone in this regard?
Welp, went with a Criterion 20" HBAR barrel anyway despite my misgivings due to a great deal I got on a new one.
As a base of comparison, do any precision barrel companies HPT/MPI their barrels? Looking around, I don't really see it advertised on anyone's websites, and I feel like that would be a selling point. Maybe Criterion isn't alone in this regard?
Now that you mention it, it seems to be a bigger selling point on carbine barrels. Outside of BCM and Noveske (I think), I can't recall anyone else that specs it for precision barrels.
Ranier Select barrel is marked "MPI"
DreadPirateMoyer
12-04-13, 23:29
Ranier Select barrel is marked "MPI"
Interesting and good to know! These are the barrels made by Black Hole, correct?
Any other big precision-barrel makers that HPT/MPI their barrels? Heck, even within Rainier, it seems only the Select-series barrels are tested in any way, and the others are left alone (Match, Ultramatch).
Just seems like it's more common to not test precision barrels than otherwise. Makes me feel better about the Criterion purchase.
Ranier and BH are not telling, but I suspect they are made by BH.
No doubt the Criterion is a great choice. Lapped bore and chrome lined for long life. What's not to like?
Would have gone with Criterion but Select finally came into stock, and for me, was significantly cheaper than Criterion. Select MedCon was also a little lighter in 16".
Have read nothing but good things on the Net about Criterion, which means its likely very good, as folks tend to really bitch if there are real problems!
DreadPirateMoyer
12-05-13, 22:24
Yeah, I believe so as well. They're both 5-groove polygonal rifling, and I believe BH is the only one to make such a barrel.
And yeah, the Criterion's main selling point for me is its longer life. I understand I sacrifice a bit in accuracy (I don't need 1/2 MOA, just 1 MOA) for this (despite Criterion's claims), but being able to have a good barrel for as long as possible is advantageous to my use.
I too haven't read anything bad about Criterion barrels. I just get scared with some of the niche makers out there since they may have QA/QC problems, but since there aren't many of their products out there, the issues don't appear on the forums. That said, I doubt Criterion is a part of this.
I just wish their material specs were more consistent and they did MPI. :( Doesn't look like they're alone in the latter, though.
DreadPirateMoyer
12-20-13, 14:08
Just heard back from Criterion on a few of the questions I had earlier and thought I'd update the hive:
"1. The steel provided for our barrels comes from two suppliers. One supplies 4142 steel, while the other provides 4150 steel. Both are fine steels for barrel production.
2. Our barrels are either immersion ultrasound inspected or eddy current tested
3. Yes"
(Note: 3 was answering what their gas port size was on a 20" barrel, which is .093 as expected)
Makes me feel a lot better that they're tested in some way. :) Also makes me wonder how they get these barrels at such a good price point compared to the likes of other button-rifled companies. Either way, I'm satisfied.
Planning on ordering a 20" hybrid contour next week to finish off a build. Will report back.
Just put a 16" hybrid CAR gas on a rifle. The machine work looks top notch, finish was uniform. Went on an MI billet upper with no problems. Will post accuracy results in the next couple of weeks. Should have results with 55 Gold dot, 75 BTHP TAP, and 55 Urban TAP.
Obscenejesster
01-01-14, 19:49
Ranier and BH are not telling, but I suspect they are made by BH.
No doubt the Criterion is a great choice. Lapped bore and chrome lined for long life. What's not to like?
Would have gone with Criterion but Select finally came into stock, and for me, was significantly cheaper than Criterion. Select MedCon was also a little lighter in 16".
Have read nothing but good things on the Net about Criterion, which means its likely very good, as folks tend to really bitch if there are real problems!
When did the Select barrels come back in stock? Was it recently? I am really thinking about pulling the trigger on a 16" or 18" when they return. Hopefully it's soon. Does anyone have an idea as to when they will return?
Also, has anyone back ordered one of the Criterion barrels through Brownells? If so, how long did it take to ship?
No way of telling when they are likely to come back in stock; I waited around 6-7 months to be notified it was in stock. Had a chance to buy the 18" much sooner, but wanted the 16". Best to contact Ranier. Suspect the Criterion barrel might not take as long to return to stock.
The_Hammer_Man
01-04-14, 13:38
From personal experience (I'm a Criterion Dealer and order from them regularly) a 50 barrel order (their minimum) takes approximately 3-4 months from start to delivery at my shop door. Brownells will have a similar supply lag.
with that said...
I have , in stock,
16" hybrid .223 wylde chamber mid gas (40)
16" LW profile .223 wylde mid gas (40)
18"hybrid .223 wylde/rifle gas (10)
Hadn't realized there was such a problem with getting these barrels but then, I'm usually busy building and not checking retail availability.
All barrels are rifled 1:8 and are CMCL (chrome moly/chrome lined)
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