View Full Version : Question about prisons and CCW
Crow Hunter
07-20-13, 12:51
I have been asked to drive someone to FCI Seagoville to self surrender.
It will be a 20+ hour drive for me round trip, plus a motel stay.
I would really prefer not to do that unarmed but at the same time I don't want to be arrested when dropping this person off at the prison for having a gun in the car.
Is it legal for me to have the handgun with the ammo separate locked in the truck of the vehicle while I am at the facility?
Does anyone know who I could call to confirm this is legal or if there is any other type of precaution I need to take?
I really don't want to wind up getting in trouble myself for this.
Thanks
Does anyone know who I could call to confirm this is legal or if there is any other type of precaution I need to take?
How about calling the prison? I'd imagine that they have a separate parking lot where one could leave a vehicle that would not be subject to search or the prison's weapon policy. They're really the only ones who would know 100%. Just be sure to get a name and rank of the person you talked to.
and have them email or send you a signed copy stating what they say if they say YES its OK :)
why not have the guy take the bus ? or is this part of your job ? dont have to answer :)
my thought is to separate those two as much as you can ! meaning a gun in vehicle and a guy going to jail not sure so no idea but if you are driving get pulled over and have a gun and this guy has a criminal record ? how will the officer handle it along the way ? so check the laws along the way also ?
best of luck
Could you deliver this guy to the general area of the prison and put him in a taxi for the last few miles? Maybe I don't understand what self surrender means. I can't imagine having a weapon in the car on prison property no matter how it is stored being a smart move. GH
Don Robison
07-20-13, 16:43
I would call and ask. If it were a state prison Texas Penal code allows you to store it unloaded in your trunk prior to entering the property.
http://www.bop.gov/DataSource/execute/dsFacilityAddressLoc?start=y&facilityCode=sea
Crow Hunter
07-20-13, 18:38
It is a white collar crime and going to a minimum security "Club Fed" prison.
Non-flight risk, non-violent offenders are usually allowed to report to their BOP assigned prison without US Marshall escort.
This person is going down with family so they can say goodbye. I volunteered to help out by driving them down and back since they probably won't be in the condition to do so.
The weapon will be on my person and in my control other than when I have to be on prison property so no legal issues with having a felon in the car with me if I were to get stopped for some reason.
I'll definitely try and give a call to the facility and see. Google searches netted me nothing.
Thanks for the help.
ETA: I will definitely err on the side of caution if I can't get a clear response. I have pepper spray, which is better than nothing...
low security but still a federal detention facility ?
low security or white collar stupid crime if he is a convicted criminal on federal level ? again fire arm in presence even on you driving him down I would double check things a quick call a couple questions rather than asking here would be best :)
If you're that uncertain about it just go without the gun. I live every day of my public life without one on my person. If I can survive 44 years this way, you'll almost certainly survive the drive there and back.
Probably about a 1,000x greater chance you'll be killed in a car accident than because you don't have your gun that one drive.
Prettyyyyy sure since it's federal grounds, federal law would supercede any Texas law and not permit a firearm in the parking lot.
Crow Hunter
07-20-13, 20:12
If you're that uncertain about it just go without the gun. I live every day of my public life without one on my person. If I can survive 44 years this way, you'll almost certainly survive the drive there and back.
Probably about a 1,000x greater chance you'll be killed in a car accident than because you don't have your gun that one drive.
I pretty much agree.
I just always like to travel armed. Especially stopping for late night bathroom breaks in areas I am not familiar with.
Got my answer. They have a "Prisoner Handbook" of all things.
No contraband allowed in visitor vehicles on the property, all vehicles subject to random searches.
How about calling the prison? I'd imagine that they have a separate parking lot where one could leave a vehicle that would not be subject to search or the prison's weapon policy. They're really the only ones who would know 100%. Just be sure to get a name and rank of the person you talked to.
I don't know of a single prison with such a thing. OP, either don't bring one or find a secure place to store it while you are there.
Its pretty simple. Don't volunteer the information and it will be a non-issue. The parking lot areas are generally open parking. You won't be going into a secure area unless you get out and enter the reception/admittance area.
And yes I worked for DOC once and have been inside many facilities.
I don't know of a single prison with such a thing. OP, either don't bring one or find a secure place to store it while you are there.
I was thinking more along the lines of an unsecured, across the street, away from pretty much the whole complex, parking lot.
Take a hotel room in the town and leave the gun hidden there.
My experience...
Calling facilities and locations (commercial, gov, otherwise) isn't a productive activity. Staff members are likely to give varied answers. The answer most likely is one to their greatest benefit and your detriment for the sake of simplicity, regardless of applicable law or policy. They are unlikely to have enough authority that would be helpful in the event they were wrong and you sourced your info back to their name. They are unlikely to stand behind you and defend any error on their part. Calling with any indication of ID, date, time, or specifics can also flag you to bored staff.
I understand and respect the desire to be law abiding and avoid issues. I'll never understand why people can't grasp that concealed means concealed.
Prettyyyyy sure since it's federal grounds, federal law would supercede any Texas law and not permit a firearm in the parking lot.
"Federal grounds" is a nebulous term. Not all federal grounds or federal facilities are off-limits. It's all in the language and definitions. BOP is likely well covered, but don't be too impressed with the word "federal" without additional info.
We have some BOP folks here who can offer more. Guys- If you don't want to out yourself in a post, send me a PM and I'll repost your thoughts with ID redacted.
I agree with Skintop. If you telephone the facility more than once, you will probably get different answers. You probably won't get the same answer as you would in person.
In my area if you are on prison property owned by the State or Federal government your vehicle is subject to search. This applies even outside the secured part of the facility, i.e., the visitor parking lot outside the gate.
I would error on the side of caution, stop the vehicle somewhere off the property and let your friend walk in. There is no use in joining him for his stay.
Alpha Sierra
07-21-13, 19:13
The more fundamental question is why are you driving him to a prison?
I would not do that under any circumstances. He should turn himself in to the nearest FBI or USMS field office after saying his goodbyes. If he is due to report to prison, I'm sure they'll give him a ride. Just because he doesn't have to be escorted by USMS does not mean he can't.
Or his relatives can muster up the nerve to take him and leave him there.
Once again, I would not involve myself in someone else's legal troubles unless it were my father or mother. And I'm pretty sure that means I never will.
The more fundamental question is why are you driving him to a prison?
That's what was wondering too. Dump him off at the nearest cop shop & let them take care of it.
Sent via Tapatalk
I have been asked to drive someone...
It will be a 20+ hour drive for me
I really don't want to wind up getting in trouble myself for this.
Are you 200% sure you are not being set up / taken advantage of? If not that sure, you might want to take a rain check.
This one just sounds wrong right out of the gate to me.
Alpha Sierra
07-21-13, 19:48
Are you 200% sure you are not being set up / taken advantage of? If not that sure, you might want to take a rain check.
This one just sounds wrong right out of the gate to me.
OP, let's say this dude disappears on you on one of the stops you will have to make during your 20 hr drive.
Even if you report it to the feds, how does that make you look at least initially?
The more I think about it the less I would consider doing something like this for anyone.
Crow Hunter
07-21-13, 20:19
OP, let's say this dude disappears on you on one of the stops you will have to make during your 20 hr drive.
Even if you report it to the feds, how does that make you look at least initially?
The more I think about it the less I would consider doing something like this for anyone.
I am just driving.
His elderly mother and wife will be riding with us and I will be driving them back.
If he doesn't report on time, there will be an arrest warrant issued. Instead of going to a "Club Fed" Low security prison, he will likely have to go to a Medium or higher prison for an even longer time than what he has now.
Keep in mind, we are talking about a first time white collar criminal. Think Bernie Madoff type. Not a hardened criminal/gang member.
He was given a couple of months to tidy up affairs by the court and was released on his own recognizance.
But I am beginning to think this is more trouble that it is worth.
PA PATRIOT
07-21-13, 20:31
Most if not all local, county, state and federal prisons have a big bold sign right were the prison driveway meets with a public street stating no weapons or any other contraband allowed and all cars and persons are subject to search.
Forget the gun or any other type of weapon which includes impact items, knifes, pepper spray/mace if your going any were near these areas as they are all considered "Contraband".
Alpha Sierra
07-21-13, 22:31
His elderly mother and wife will be riding with us and I will be driving them back.
Neither of them has a car?
If he doesn't report on time, there will be an arrest warrant issued.
Surrendering to a federal LE office is not enough? Can they not notify the BoP and be picked up?
This is very weird and it seems not everything is on the table. Not saying you need to lay it out for us, but still, this whole thread is very strange and raised more questions than it answers.
Crow Hunter
07-21-13, 22:47
Neither of them has a car?
Surrendering to a federal LE office is not enough? Can they not notify the BoP and be picked up?
This is very weird and it seems not everything is on the table. Not saying you need to lay it out for us, but still, this whole thread is very strange and raised more questions than it answers.
They have cars, I will actually be driving one of their cars, but I don't know how much of emotional basket cases both of them will be in after he gets dropped off. That is why they have asked if someone could go down with them.
The BoP is requesting that he self surrender at FCI Seagoville. It is common practice for white collar crimes. There really isn't any "picking up" unless he doesn't show up at his appointed time. After he was sentenced, he was sent home and told that he would be notified by the BoP of his self surrender date and where he would need to be.
This is a "Martha Stewart" type prison, not something you see on National Geographic.
You could also place a call to the Texas Rangers. They might actually escort you in the state and take the prisoner the finial leg.. Ron
The instructions given by the sentencing authority and the receiving facility are not random. If they have made a request, follow it. If the good idea fairy shows up, kick her in the junk. Suggesting alternatives and requesting accommodations is not the way to start a sentence.
Actually I think you are making this more complicated than it need be.
I am just driving.
His elderly mother and wife will be riding with us and I will be driving them back.
If he doesn't report on time, there will be an arrest warrant issued. Instead of going to a "Club Fed" Low security prison, he will likely have to go to a Medium or higher prison for an even longer time than what he has now.
Keep in mind, we are talking about a first time white collar criminal. Think Bernie Madoff type. Not a hardened criminal/gang member.
He was given a couple of months to tidy up affairs by the court and was released on his own recognizance.
But I am beginning to think this is more trouble that it is worth.
Alpha Sierra
07-22-13, 14:00
If you're going to be armed, drive to the gate and let them off with a time to pick up the relatives and then drive away. Return at the appointed time, pick up relatives and leave.
Do not enter into the parking lot or past any checkpoint in your car lest you be consenting to a search.
Here's what the place seems to look like from the street:
http://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/sea/graphics/SEA.jpg
low security but still a federal detention facility ?
low security or white collar stupid crime if he is a convicted criminal on federal level ? again fire arm in presence even on you driving him down I would double check things a quick call a couple questions rather than asking here would be best :)
Dad's Cousin was Sheriff and basically took the fall for other people in a drug ring. He just walking and confessed. We think some of the younger family members were about to get popped. Anyways he did Federal time at an Air Force base in Florida I think. Pretty much do whatever you wanted just couldn't come and go as you please.
Kinda like where they would send a rich/connected person if they had to do time.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.