View Full Version : Trigger fails to reset then rifle doubles/triples (burst)?
LoneStarM1A
07-21-13, 19:15
Question, I have an AR-15 (not M16) with a Noveske 14.5" upper.
The Lower is an LRB Arms receiver with a Geissele super 3 gun trigger. I assembled the lower.
Today I shot 400 rounds. The rifle was clean at the beginning of the day. I was shooting prone from a bipod. At about shot number 350, the trigger failed to reset (i.e. a round was chambered but the trigger wouldn't move so I had to use the charging handle to eject the live round, cock the hammer, and chamber another round).
The next shot was an inadvertent two round burst. The next shot after that was a triple burst. Then I shot another 45 rounds or so without incident.
I have verified that the springs in my fire control group are correctly installed and are in good shape. Should I replace the FCG and/or send the Super 3 Gun trigger back to Geissele and let them know what's happening? Should I just take the gun to a good gunsmith?
To be honest it has done this a few times before as well - also when the gun was fairly dirty.
Thoughts?
Cincinnatus
07-21-13, 19:18
Question, I have an AR-15 (not M16) with a Noveske 14.5" upper.
The Lower is an LRB Arms receiver with a Geissele super 3 gun trigger. I assembled the lower.
Today I shot 400 rounds. The rifle was clean at the beginning of the day. I was shooting prone from a bipod. At about shot number 350, the trigger failed to reset (i.e. a round was chambered but the trigger wouldn't move so I had to use the charging handle to eject the live round, cock the hammer, and chamber another round).
The next shot was an inadvertent two round burst. The next shot after that was a triple burst. Then I shot another 45 rounds or so without incident.
I have verified that the springs in my fire control group are correctly installed and are in good shape. Should I replace the FCG and/or send the Super 3 Gun trigger back to Geissele and let them know what's happening? Should I just take the gun to a good gunsmith?
To be honest it has done this a few times before as well - also when the gun was fairly dirty.
Thoughts?
Did this happen with any other FCG other than the Geissele? I would call Geissele first thing Monday morning and send them the lower and the FCG to inspect.
LoneStarM1A
07-21-13, 19:29
Thanks for the response.
This Geissele is the only FCG the lower has ever had in it, so no, I haven't experienced the issue otherwise.
Rattlehead
07-21-13, 19:36
Question, I have an AR-15 (not M16) with a Noveske 14.5" upper.
The Lower is an LRB Arms receiver with a Geissele super 3 gun trigger. I assembled the lower.
Today I shot 400 rounds. The rifle was clean at the beginning of the day. I was shooting prone from a bipod. At about shot number 350, the trigger failed to reset (i.e. a round was chambered but the trigger wouldn't move so I had to use the charging handle to eject the live round, cock the hammer, and chamber another round).
The next shot was an inadvertent two round burst. The next shot after that was a triple burst. Then I shot another 45 rounds or so without incident.
I have verified that the springs in my fire control group are correctly installed and are in good shape. Should I replace the FCG and/or send the Super 3 Gun trigger back to Geissele and let them know what's happening? Should I just take the gun to a good gunsmith?
To be honest it has done this a few times before as well - also when the gun was fairly dirty.
Thoughts?
You need to contact Geissele, it's a tolerance stack up issue that I've had with two other S3G triggers. Geissele was extremely helpful and got the problem fixed literally within a week. They're great people to deal with.
It's worth noting that the S3G was in a LT lower when it doubled.
You need to contact Geissele, it's a tolerance stack up issue that I've had with two other S3G triggers. Geissele was extremely helpful and got the problem fixed literally within a week. They're great people to deal with.
It's worth noting that the S3G was in a LT lower when it doubled.
If it were a tolerance tacking issue, I have to believe it would have shown up immediately. I just find it hard to wrap my arms around the possibility that the trigger so close to being out of spec that it only took 350 rounds for it to fail.
Rattlehead
07-21-13, 20:32
If it were a tolerance tacking issue, I have to believe it would have shown up immediately. I just find it hard to wrap my arms around the possibility that the trigger so close to being out of spec that it only took 350 rounds for it to fail.
That's straight from Geissele.
That's straight from Geissele.
I don't doubt that is what Geissele said. They are in a tough position though because the quality of the receiver is beyond their control and is a more likely cause of trigger/disco/hammer timing issues.
You might push the pins out and check them. I was having a similar issue that was caused by the trigger pin shearing at the spring groove.
glockshooter
07-21-13, 21:45
It is the trigger being inadvertently bump fired. It happens with the S3G probably more than any other Geissele trigger it happens because the extremely short reset. This is a not a new thing with that trigger. I have had the exact same problems with mine when I first got it. Once I figured out what was happening and what caused it I was able to keep it from happening. The problem occurs mostly when the shooter doesn't have the rifle firmly in their shoulder. Usually happens in the prone or in an usual position where I could not shoulder the rifle as firmly as normal. Geissele will offer to send you a heavier trigger spring.
Matt
Get off the bipod and on your hind legs and see if the problem goes away. I think inadvertent bump-fire is the most likely cause.
It is the trigger being inadvertently bump fired. It happens with the S3G probably more than any other Geissele trigger it happens because the extremely short reset. This is a not a new thing with that trigger. I have had the exact same problems with mine when I first got it. Once I figured out what was happening and what caused it I was able to keep it from happening. The problem occurs mostly when the shooter doesn't have the rifle firmly in their shoulder. Usually happens in the prone or in an usual position where I could not shoulder the rifle as firmly as normal. Geissele will offer to send you a heavier trigger spring.
Matt
This makes sense I think. One of the first things I noticed when browsing the Geissele website, is this statement about the S3G:
Note: The S3G trigger has a very short, light pull and reset. We do not recommend it for duty use, bench rest, accuracy work or shooting small groups. It is designed for close course competition use where rapid target engagement with quick follow up shots are required.
LoneStarM1A
07-21-13, 22:14
I thought it was just bump fire at first too but the fact that the trigger's failure to reset malfunction happens just before it starts shooting bursts makes me think it might be some kind of problem with the disconnector. Of course this is just speculation on my part, I really don't know.
I've putt 1400 rounds through the rifle and it first started doing this at about the 500 round mark. It has gone burst about 3 times, with the failure to reset harbinger occurring each time just before it happens.
This last time it happened I was at a carbine course and part of the course was to shoot prone. 90% of the course was offhand, kneeling, or sitting, and the issue only happened during the final prone portion while I was shooting downward at a 7 degree angle, which was a bit of an awkward position. The other times it has happened it has been from the bench.
Can the trigger failing to reset somehow be a result of inadvertant bump fire as well?
If the solution is a heavier trigger then that might be what I need to do.
glockshooter
07-21-13, 22:59
I thought it was just bump fire at first too but the fact that the trigger's failure to reset malfunction happens just before it starts shooting bursts makes me think it might be some kind of problem with the disconnector. Of course this is just speculation on my part, I really don't know.
I've putt 1400 rounds through the rifle and it first started doing this at about the 500 round mark. It has gone burst about 3 times, with the failure to reset harbinger occurring each time just before it happens.
This last time it happened I was at a carbine course and part of the course was to shoot prone. 90% of the course was offhand, kneeling, or sitting, and the issue only happened during the final prone portion while I was shooting downward at a 7 degree angle, which was a bit of an awkward position. The other times it has happened it has been from the bench.
Can the trigger failing to reset somehow be a result of inadvertant bump fire as well?
If the solution is a heavier trigger then that might be what I need to do.
You just confirmed it for me. When shooting from a bench people normally try to have very little effect on the rifle. When this is done the recoil of the rifle is not controlled and the trigger is bump fired. As to the dead trigger, I believe this is caused by the same thing. Probably the hammer following the bolt forward an not striking the primer.
Matt
Call and send it in. I wouldn't take any advice given here. Not a knock on anyones expierence I just feel leary of anyone who can diagnose and confirm the problem from a post.
The cause of the malfunctions can be any of the three situations offered. Let Geissele take a look at it. If its an out of spec lower they may be able to supply a solution, If its the trigger they can fix or replace it, and if all is good as per them then you can start looking at your trigger finger and bump firing.
Can't hurt to call and see what they say. Most likely they will want to inspect it first hand. A friend of mine experienced a similar malfunction. He described it as feeling like the trigger reset and fire positions were so close to the same pull weight that he would get doubles/triples as well. Especially when prone. Basically a bump fire like others have said.
Geissele will certainly be able to offer options to remedy the issue.
Call and send it in. I wouldn't take any advice given here. Not a knock on anyones expierence I just feel leary of anyone who can diagnose and confirm the problem from a post.
Pretty much this. Get off the internet, and send those parts to the mfg. Trigger group failures and accidental discharges are not a casual problem. Take those parts out of the gun now and box them up for return.
As an aside, this weekend I saw someone using a trigger in a precision rifle class that was WAY too light (adjustable) and she was getting doubles now and then as well as poor accuracy because of it. MORE is not always BETTER.
You have a good brand of trigger, G will take care of you.
Call and send it in. I wouldn't take any advice given here. Not a knock on anyones expierence I just feel leary of anyone who can diagnose and confirm the problem from a post.
The cause of the malfunctions can be any of the three situations offered. Let Geissele take a look at it. If its an out of spec lower they may be able to supply a solution, If its the trigger they can fix or replace it, and if all is good as per them then you can start looking at your trigger finger and bump firing.
So we should ignore your advice, right? :rolleyes:
So we should ignore your advice, right? :rolleyes:
Ah, right, dick. I should have written to not accept any form of troubleshooting from anyone except the mfg. Good thing we have guys like you here to enhance the quality of the information being shared right?
Ah, right, dick. I should have written to not accept any form of troubleshooting from anyone except the mfg. Good thing we have guys like you here to enhance the quality of the information being shared right?
Running interference are you? What are you his big brother? I wasn't even talking to you. Maybe the other guy can refrain from insulting everyone else.
Why is the quality level of posts going down hill here?
Why is the quality level of posts going down hill here?
I used to read a lot, post little here due to the highly technical SME nature of the board....now, more so the opposite.
Back on the topic. I had a ALG trigger recently that would not reset. I contacted ALG, they very quickly sent me a new one, and problem solved. They didn't tell me really what causes that problem, but obviously they are aware of it, and they replace defective parts.
Army Chief
07-22-13, 17:30
Check fire, time now.
AC
...and if all is good as per them then you can start looking at your trigger finger and bump firing.
And what are the odds of this again? Anyway OP send it in for inspection as suggested.
superr.stu
07-22-13, 17:48
Talk to Geissele, it sounds like accidental bump fire but they'll get it sorted out.
Had similar issue with a SSA doubling last year. Had Mr. Smith look at it, and contacted Geissele. They requested I send my safety in with the trigger, checked everything out and the safety ended up being slightly out of spec and caused the issue. They took care of everything and haven't had any issues since.
Voodoochild
07-22-13, 18:14
Shake your dicks gents this pissing contest is over. OP best bet is to contact mfgr and get the scoop straight from the horses mouth.
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