View Full Version : Agree or Disagree?
America is not the greatest country in the world anymore...
A clip from HBO's Newsroom (http://youtu.be/VMqcLUqYqrs)
High Tower
07-22-13, 19:07
Disagree!!! It is not as great as it used to be, but we are still head and shoulders above all the other shitholes out there.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-22-13, 19:24
That show is a progressive fantasy supposedly cloaked in a evenhanded nonpartisan wrapper. The first season ended with it supposedly middle of the road anchor saying that the tea party was the American Taliban. I wonder how they are going to spin all of the IRS and other attacks on conservatives since then.
I think I'm going to switch it so that I can get Cinemax and watch strike back instead of this HBO crap. The problem is I think both channels are owned by HBO anyway.
I think I might cancel HBO and get Cinemax until game of thrones comes back on.
Oh yeah they're trying to close up the dead occupy Wall Street bullshit too.
You want progressive shows on TV, that's fine, I don't care. Just don't try to say that they're evenhanded the ultimate in newsworthy coverage that should be what real news should be. The show is basically MSNBC's newsroom with Fox management guess who gets portrayed better.
His entire diatribe is a bunch of leftwing nutjobery.
Still the greatest country. But our leadership is not representative of our greatness, and is pulling us downward.
Still the Greatest Nation on Earth. However.... on our current vector, America will begin to look increasingly like a third world country with a big governmental apparatus - think some sad combination of Russia, Mexico, and Somalia.
Detroit is the just the tip of this impending iceberg. I have seen this in other countries. Anyone with any sort of wealth will live in a walled compound with broken glass embedded in the concrete of the outer wall. There will be huge sections of slums and ghettos. And don't think you will be safe by just living in the suburbs, exburbs, or country. When Rhodesia, South Africa and Argentina collapsed farms were raided as a matter of course. Inhabitants were raped, robbed and sometimes killed as a matter of course.
Sadly, the Dems nor the Gops have any interest in preventing this pending disaster. They are too busy looting the treasury for their own purposes.
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Still the greatest but headed down a path that will be very rough.
We've taken a sharp left turn from the "basics" we were founded up on.
Unless we turn back to those "basics"....I think...
...we ain't seen nothin' yet...
:cray:
Oh well, maybe it's just me...
.
Strongly disagree. Still the greatest. Still the gold standard but not nearly what we could be.
A lot of people that live here don't have the general respect for America that everyone should have and we most certainly have government problems, but overall there is nothing like America.
militarymoron
07-22-13, 21:48
Disagree. but for the sake of argument, if it wasn't, then which country would it be?
MountainRaven
07-22-13, 22:04
Disagree, as well.
Because the good old days weren't really all the good. Nor are they that old.
It's been a while since I've watched the clip, but as I recall almost all of his points can be summarily rebutted up by saying, "What, you think this country was better when women couldn't vote? When people could arbitrarily be forced to pay poll taxes and take a test before they could vote, all on account of their skin color? When we were involved in a war that cost us hundreds of thousands of lives? When we could suffer 50,000 casualties in one day, in one battle? When unarmed protesters (and innocent bystanders) were shot and killed by National Guardsmen? When the President had to deploy the 101st Airborne within the United States? When we herded hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians into concentration camps while their sons fought and died for our freedoms thousands of miles from home? When getting an abortion meant going to a back alley "doctor" and contracting HIV was a death sentence? When contracting TB was a death sentence? When polio ran rampant? Because that's what you make it sound like."
Disagree.
I saw a few fouled up shit holes outside of CONUS when I was much younger, so I have something to compare to the U.S. I believe the U.S. is the best place to live in the world.
Undecided.
I don't have enough current information about every other country to make the call.
I always imagined it would probably be nice to live in Switzerland if I ever became fabulously wealthy. I know it's socialism but their educated socialism seems to work better than our improvised socialism.
I can think of dozens and dozens of places I could never live.
Disagree, as well.
Because the good old days weren't really all the good. Nor are they that old.
It's been a while since I've watched the clip, but as I recall almost all of his points can be summarily rebutted up by saying, "What, you think this country was better when women couldn't vote? When people could arbitrarily be forced to pay poll taxes and take a test before they could vote, all on account of their skin color? When we were involved in a war that cost us hundreds of thousands of lives? When we could suffer 50,000 casualties in one day, in one battle? When unarmed protesters (and innocent bystanders) were shot and killed by National Guardsmen? When the President had to deploy the 101st Airborne within the United States? When we herded hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians into concentration camps while their sons fought and died for our freedoms thousands of miles from home? When getting an abortion meant going to a back alley "doctor" and contracting HIV was a death sentence? When contracting TB was a death sentence? When polio ran rampant? Because that's what you make it sound like."
Not to dismiss your points, but if you go back to those times, most other places were much, much worse.
Yes it was wrong to intern Japanese Americans who were innocent. We should remember not all of them were innocent and that the Japanese in Japan were doing much, much worse to the countries they visited.
Yes there were many injustices done to black in this country in the past. But there were plenty of places where it was worse to be black, and that includes many places in Africa. In fact if I had to choose between being black in the south in 1952 and being black in Africa right now in either a hutu or tutsi village I'd have to say "Yesum" a whole lot.
Yes Kent State was terrible and the fact that innocent bystanders were shot is appalling. What is even more appalling is that institutions of higher education were hijacked by political radicals who burned down buildings, rioted and put the entire student body at risk and seem to have gotten away with it and aren't even held accountable for creating the situation in the first place.
And if you think HIV, TB and polio was bad in this country, where was it better during the same time period? In fact it was this country that came up with the polio vaccine and we've probably done the lions share of the work with regard to TB and HIV. In fact were it not for rampant illegal immigration we'd have probably managed to eliminate TB by now.
Now I don't want to idealize the past, especially one that never existed. We remember nickel Cokes but forget our experiments with Eugenics and a socialist program in the US that could require the forcible sterilization of those deemed "indigent" (undesirable). And certainly there was something simple about the 50s and 60s but at the same time they lived in fear of a nuclear war that could happen at any moment.
But with all of the problems and things we'd like to forget, nobody ever got 2.86 million dollars because they were careless enough to spill hot coffee on themselves.
Disagree. but for the sake of argument, if it wasn't, then which country would it be?
New Zealand, Australia, and Singapore are attractive options, but it depends on your profession and economic status. The US is a great country for the top 5% and bottom 40% of income earners as well as certain professions such as entertainers, athletes, etc. It is not such a great place for those of us who make up the working 41-95% of income earners. If it were not for my family ties, I'd rather live in NZ or AUS over the US. Singapore has a lot going for it, but I still perfer the US. I'm fully aware of their restrictive gun laws, but the perks outweigh this drawback for my profession.
NZ and Oz have shitty gun laws.
curious why NZ or OZ ?
I know my ozzy friends are glad to be out of OZ ?
some love it there of course I like there off road rigs :) and camping stuff and think it might be nice but crime is quite high for violent personal crime and when you live there they say its pretty bad really but kinda kept quiet ? things are very expensive there import fees etc.
even those that love it there come here a lot to make more money doing seminars etc..
NZ is so easy again on criminals and has a lot of crime again violent personal problems etc.. lots of restrictions and very expensive
both as said bad gun laws and even knife laws !
singapore if you have money is very nice sounding of course have to be careful about certain things so have to be willing to live within some confines of the countries laws
my wife is from Canada and her parents came to Canada to get out of there country problems (England)
a few rellies in OZ and she can get her common british passport but not sure we could ever move there ? getting in is pretty tough
not disagreeing I just hear another view so would love to hear more from another view
wife and I always joke about Canada being a better deal these days for business and what we pay out except of course for housing which is brutal expensive in Vancouver area
New Zealand, Australia, and Singapore are attractive options, but it depends on your profession and economic status. The US is a great country for the top 5% and bottom 40% of income earners as well as certain professions such as entertainers, athletes, etc. It is not such a great place for those of us who make up the working 41-95% of income earners. If it were not for my family ties, I'd rather live in NZ or AUS over the US. Singapore has a lot going for it, but I still perfer the US. I'm fully aware of their restrictive gun laws, but the perks outweigh this drawback for my profession.
For my particular profession, I can make a very good living in a city such a Melbourne, Cains, Perth, Auckland, or Adelaide and enjoy a similar (if not better) standard of living. Again, this is my personal experience having spent a fair amount of time in NZ and AUS. I always look forward to going there each time I go down under, and I never want to leave when it's time to go home. Someday, I hope to stay for good.
I think the best option is to find the parts of this country where "they" can't find you. Places where the FSA doesn't flock to congregate because of the massive social programs and environments particularly suited to their desires.
The FSA for example doesn't enjoy remote places with no exciting night life. My dream is to one day sell my house for a fair price and cash out to something with slightly more square footage for all my stuff in a quiet (almost boring) town that has the basic amenities for most of my wants and needs and perhaps just have something rare (like being able to watch TV without having to get up to find out what all that ****ing noise is outside and get a full nights sleep knowing there is nothing out there that requires me to check on it regularly) become "normal" for me.
Some decent local eateries with good food rather then the McCrap Bell you often have to settle for where you can get "the special" on a chilly afternoon and walk to most places. Yeah...I'd take that.
going by history nobody stays on top and lots of countries who have been failed eventually
but political climates were not the same so hard to say what would happen but cant see to much good out of the countries in line behind us taking over as super power !
I am more a we should be protecting ourselves big time rather than being so spread out !
GeorgiaBoy
07-23-13, 02:07
You know whats unfortunate? That we can't even place above 10th place in economic freedom.
http://www.heritage.org/index/
Registering a loss of economic freedom for the fifth consecutive year, the U.S. has recorded its lowest Index score since 2000. Dynamic entrepreneurial growth is stifled by ever-more-bloated government and a trend toward cronyism that erodes the rule of law. More than three years after the end of recession in June 2009, the U.S. continues to suffer from policy choices that have led to the slowest recovery in 70 years.
You know whats unfortunate? That we can't even place above 10th place in economic freedom.
http://www.heritage.org/index/
Notice that Singapore, AUS, and NZ occupy positions 2-4 on that list.
RogerinTPA
07-23-13, 08:45
I disagree, but we are losing our traditional culture (religion, patriotism, service to country, morality, hard work, gun culture, rugged individualist, can do spirit, etc...). Most of us have noticed this transition within our lifetimes. We aren't doing a good job passing those traditional values to the next generation, especially when many kids have been raised by single parents (women in most cases) in major cities, and basic survival is the name of the game. Half the country doesn't work and are wards of the state, which promotes collectivism. It is and has been slowly whittled away over several generations, as our traditional values are all looked down upon, un american, and literally considered a threat by the liberal progressives and this administration.
I disagree, but we are losing our traditional culture (religion, patriotism, service to country, morality, hard work, gun culture, rugged individualist, can do spirit, etc...). Most of us have noticed this transition within our lifetimes. We aren't doing a good job passing those traditional values to the next generation, especially when many kids have been raised by single parents (women in most cases) in major cities, and basic survival is the name of the game. Half the country doesn't work and are wards of the state, which promotes collectivism. It is and has been slowly whittled away over several generations, as our traditional values are all looked down upon, un american, and literally considered a threat by the liberal progressives and this administration.
I disagree also but, we are on the downhill slide for the reasons Roger has stated.
Well said.
brickboy240
07-23-13, 10:33
I have seen that clip before and disagree with it.
The countries he mentions...Canada, UK, Belgium and Japan...they do NOT have freedoms that America has. Not even close.
I have met several people from those countries...and others...that now live here and they all do NOT want to go back. I have yet to meet one Texan that says, "man....I cannot wait to move to Japan or Australia."
My mechanic is a Swede national and he too says he has no wishes to move back to Sweden. Isn't Sweden often held up by leftists as some sort of Utopia? My mechanic friend tells a VERY different story of living in Sweden.
In America...many leftists have a distorted view of life and freedom in foreign countries. Even those that are considered modern and civilized like the UK and Europe. Many of those places are outrageously expensive to live in and operate a business. They also have odd restrictions on guns and other "freedoms" and have tons of social problems that are as bad or worse than any you find in America.
Many Americans HAVE traveled to foreign countries, but only stayed in the wealthy tourist areas and have distorted views of regular life in foreign countries. The other leftists only THINK that life is better in foreign countries they have only read about. They have rose colored glasses about real life in places like Europe, Australia and Asia.
So yes...even with all its warts and Obama and the leftists running the show...America is still a better place to live and has more freedom than the rest of the world.
-brickboy240
The facts that he rattles off at about 2:20 - 3:00 are all pretty damn accurate. Our incarceration rate for malum prohibitum crimes is the antithesis of freedom, in it's truest sense, and completely against what our country was founded on.
Besides the gun issue I could live in quite a few different countries and be happy. Argentina, Taz, Australia, NZ, Hong Kong... Been to all of them, and more, and really enjoy their food, culture and the people I've met. Shit, Mexico's great too if you've got money to spend and stay out of the bad areas.
Didn't watch the video - don't need to. We're the #1 world superpower for a reason; we have one of the highest standards of living, per personal average, for a reason; we are still allowed to own guns, for a reason - we ARE the greatest nation on this earth, at this point in time.
Are things headed towards a downhill trend? Yes. Have things ALWAYS been headed towards a downhill trend? Yes. Is the rest of the world in a downhill trend? ABSOLUTELY. The MSM seems to be blind that virtually every other country in the world is undergoing similar financial and socioeconomic problems.
If you have to ask if we're no longer #1, then we're still #1. It's when you DON'T have to ask that there's a problem.
militarymoron
07-23-13, 11:49
hell no on singapore. very restrictive country (not only guns), but it's also tiny and you'd get stir crazy. an extremely dense population jam packed with sweaty people. climate sucks - hot and humid as it's very close to the equator. singapore might have a lot going for it depending on your profession, but it just sucks as a place to live.
NZ is one of those i'd consider taking a closer look at.
New Zealand, Australia, and Singapore are attractive options, but it depends on your profession and economic status. The US is a great country for the top 5% and bottom 40% of income earners as well as certain professions such as entertainers, athletes, etc. It is not such a great place for those of us who make up the working 41-95% of income earners. If it were not for my family ties, I'd rather live in NZ or AUS over the US. Singapore has a lot going for it, but I still perfer the US. I'm fully aware of their restrictive gun laws, but the perks outweigh this drawback for my profession.
brickboy240
07-23-13, 12:46
One way to tell that America is still on top....the lifestyle of the poorer people.
Poor people in America live MUCH better than the poor in every other country. Especially the poor in Africa, the mid east and Asia.
If you have never traveled to many foreign countries...you have no idea how good our poor have it.
-brickboy240
HackerF15E
07-23-13, 13:01
The problem is really being unable to objectively look at the US. When our gut instinct is either "U-S-A! U-S-A!" or "America is not the best country in the world....", both of which are wrong, then we have a problem.
Patting ourselves on the back serves no positive function. Objective analysis and criticism, in the name of improvement, is what breeds and sustains excellence.
Staring at our navel and waving the stars and stripes is anathema to that.
Notice that Singapore, AUS, and NZ occupy positions 2-4 on that list.
I question the validity of Hong Kong in the number one spot.
Moose-Knuckle
07-23-13, 17:53
Tell you what, stop the Earth's rotation . . . I want off.
I think Planet of the Apes was some spot on foreshadowing. :eek:
MountainRaven
07-23-13, 20:24
You know whats unfortunate? That we can't even place above 10th place in economic freedom.
http://www.heritage.org/index/
I'm fine with 10th, considering that the list should be at least 193 entries long. Not quite the top 5% but only just outside of it.
And I could have seen HK at 1 before it reverted to Chinese control. I don't see it, today.
Tell you what, stop the Earth's rotation . . . I want off.
I think Planet of the Apes was some spot on foreshadowing. :eek:
I don't want to live on this planet any more. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIWHMb3JxmE)
Moose-Knuckle
07-23-13, 21:18
I don't want to live on this planet any more. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIWHMb3JxmE)
If I had the Planet Express Ship I'd be outta here . . . :p
We have the greatest FORM OF GOVERNMENT - a Republic.
The reality is that liberty is being snuffed out by our Globalist leaders and their duped followers.
We are falling - FAST.
It's still home - win, lose or draw.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
The facts that he rattles off at about 2:20 - 3:00 are all pretty damn accurate. Our incarceration rate for malum prohibitum crimes is the antithesis of freedom, in it's truest sense, and completely against what our country was founded on.
Besides the gun issue I could live in quite a few different countries and be happy. Argentina, Taz, Australia, NZ, Hong Kong... Been to all of them, and more, and really enjoy their food, culture and the people I've met. Shit, Mexico's great too if you've got money to spend and stay out of the bad areas.
Well said.
If an American has any empathy and interest in other cultures South America is a gold mine.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
Cagemonkey
07-24-13, 21:07
Something to look at. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-23/how-does-america’s-middle-class-rank-globally-27
RogerinTPA
07-24-13, 22:18
Tell you what, stop the Earth's rotation . . . I want off.
I think Planet of the Apes was some spot on foreshadowing. :eek:
Some are taking active measures and moving to SA, which I've considered myself in the past 5 years. Some (Anarchist) have plans to set up their own areas to live in. As long as you have an internet connection, you're in business.
if you meet expats when you live abroad they will tell you the same things as those who left there own country to come to the US :)
its better there !
why one of my buds spends most his time back and forth taking the best of both worlds Honduras and US
agree gun control is huge problem in other countries and why often rape and other personal crime is much higher in those countries
suicide in Japan is a good example why gun control does not work !
I dont think Canada is better than the US but its not worse its different its a trade off for some things again my wife is Canadian so I have a good grasp of it from being back and forth with her there for 3 years of our relationship
but we are still here cause I like warm weather :)
I do think they are better off middle class in some ways but its so close to US its really hard to compare
when I lived in Honduras for a year I got a very good grasp of what its like to live there did not live in the nice areas ! lived and worked in a regular area with regular folks and hung out with regular folks
and in some ways they have a lot of freedom !
of course these days with the gang problem ! look up Tegucigalpa or San Pedro Sula ! most dangerous cities in the world now !
that is the one thing a country can turn and get even worse very quickly in some of those other places like Central America or South America ! so I think those places you have to be ready to say OK time to bail cause when they go south they go south big time quickly !
Canada or NZ or Australia I don't see it coming apart like some countries very stable and again that balance you give up certain rights ! mostly weapons and a way to protect yourself sadly ? but you gain certain things
not sure about Singapore ? I think for the most part its OK have a bud that lives there but he is wealthy ?
now Hong Kong ? sorry wont think much of being there also same as Chile !
one of my best friends is married to a Chilean girl and he lived there about 6 years he could not stand it the only thing that made it OK was the family there but just so hard to get anything done etc..
we just need to turn this country back around and get back our freedoms we have lost !
we still are the best country IMHO and if the world does get into a WWIII scenario I would rather be here than some other countries !
also know way would I ever choose any country in EU !
We have the greatest FORM OF GOVERNMENT - a Republic.
The reality is that liberty is being snuffed out by our Globalist leaders and their duped followers.
We are falling - FAST.
It's still home - win, lose or draw.
Honestly I don't think we've ever lived fully under the stated intentions of our Constitution and if we removed all the laws and practices the limit the freedoms were are "supposed" to have I think 80% of the country wouldn't be able to handle it.
It would be like people who win the lottery and then completely **** up their lives even worse than before because they can't manage things on their own.
If we had genuine freedom and equality, heads would explode.
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