Geissele Developing Trigger for TAVOR [Archive]

MountainRaven

07-31-13, 21:11

Awesome. Can we get a SD3G or SDC for the AK?

Which AK?

:sarcastic:

But seriously, there's the RSA. :p

Geissele makes triggers for the SCAR and (that horrid abomination) the ACR. Which makes this the first Geissele trigger for a non-AR they have introduced for a rifle that's MSRP is under $2000 (MSRP on the ACR is now below that mark, but it wasn't when they introduced the gun or the trigger).

I would guess that they don't see very many people dropping $300-500 on a trigger for a $700 gun. Most people putting $2000 into an AK are going to be getting a hand-worked trigger from somebody like Krebs or Rifle Dynamics, anyway, so no market there. Particularly given the competent and serviceable, if not fantastic, options in the form of the Tapco G2 and the Red State Arms trigger groups. Even the factory Arsenal triggers aren't bad.

Hell, the Tavor is probably the first trigger they have made for a platform that genuinely needs a nicer trigger. (And anything less than Geissele blasphemes against the rifle's IDF roots and its M16 and Kalashnikov progenitors.)

Cylinder Head

07-31-13, 21:11

Great news that is the one thing stopping me from picking one up.

bm176

07-31-13, 22:11

Great news that is the one thing stopping me from picking one up.

the trigger?

decodeddiesel

08-01-13, 20:40

I am really interested in this platform, Geissele support is a big selling point as far as I am concerned.

I'm thinking about moving some of my collection to fund a Tavor purchase.

Caeser25

08-03-13, 12:04

Which AK?

:sarcastic:

But seriously, there's the RSA. :p

Geissele makes triggers for the SCAR and (that horrid abomination) the ACR. Which makes this the first Geissele trigger for a non-AR they have introduced for a rifle that's MSRP is under $2000 (MSRP on the ACR is now below that mark, but it wasn't when they introduced the gun or the trigger).

I would guess that they don't see very many people dropping $300-500 on a trigger for a $700 gun. Most people putting $2000 into an AK are going to be getting a hand-worked trigger from somebody like Krebs or Rifle Dynamics, anyway, so no market there. Particularly given the competent and serviceable, if not fantastic, options in the form of the Tapco G2 and the Red State Arms trigger groups. Even the factory Arsenal triggers aren't bad.

Hell, the Tavor is probably the first trigger they have made for a platform that genuinely needs a nicer trigger. (And anything less than Geissele blasphemes against the rifle's IDF roots and its M16 and Kalashnikov progenitors.)

I have a G2, not bad any means. I just want a flat trigger for the AK.

decodeddiesel

08-03-13, 12:20

I have a G2, not bad any means. I just want a flat trigger for the AK.

I too have a G2 in all of my AKs. In my Saiga AK-101 (my go-to) the trigger was worked over by Bill Springfield and it is outstanding. I wouldn't mind having such a trigger in any of my rifles, but Geissele is a little better from the ones I have tried.

Once I pick up a Tavor I was going to remove the extra reset spring and have Mr. Springfield work his magic on the trigger. If there's a drop-in Geissele available I will just go with that instead.

No Bananas

10-16-13, 21:08

Any further word on the Giessele or Timney triggers?

firerocketjump

10-20-13, 20:44

PatrioticDisorder

10-20-13, 22:07

That sounds awesome, its been a while since the Tavor has been out and since the trigger was announced.
Can;t wait to see some reviews and prices for each.
Maybe they will show them at shot show next year which I am sure many places are holding out their good items for.

For it to be worth making, expect the prices to be north of $300, probably closer to $400, at least that's my best guesss.

Rickenbacker53

10-21-13, 14:02

Haven't heard an update from Geissele, but a Smaller Guy Shootingsight.com should have a trigger pack design done and for sale in a month: I'll be the first Consumer to get one : He designed a Trigger for the SIG556 that has really recieved high praise: I will keep everyone posted when Shooting Sights Trigger is out.

There is a thread on the Bullpup IWI sight with updated INFO

http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=3194.280

pictures at bottom of page 15

Mall_Ninja

11-21-13, 23:10

Jer

11-21-13, 23:33

I stumbled on this thread and am surprised they are willing to tackle this. The first time I handled the Tavor I was absolutely ASTONISHED how crappy the trigger was! The BUIS looked very flimsy too but thats not nearly as much an issue as the horrendous trigger. What were they thinking? I hope the real deal select fire version is much better and that the "FAIL" came when they changed to the required semi-auto. Anyone handled the select fire version?

You sure it wasn't an airsoft knock-off or something? My BUIS are more sturdy than any of the MBUS on any of my rifles and those have served their purpose just fine for years. If you're saying the BUIS on these is flimsy you're nit picking and I personally disagree with the nit you've picked in this case. I can't argue with the trigger other than to ask if you've ever felt a standard GI trigger in an AR15 because it's not that much better than this one. Especially if you pull the one spring it's pretty damn close to the same with a slightly different feel to the travel. I've been competing in long-range precision competitions for years so I'm well aware of what a good trigger feels like and I don't put as much value in an amazingly light & crisp/clean trigger on a battle rifle. It's kind of like putting super high-performance tires on a Geo Metro IMO. Sure, it can help a little bit but to get the true performance you need another platform.

Mall_Ninja

11-22-13, 04:33

You sure it wasn't an airsoft knock-off or something? My BUIS are more sturdy than any of the MBUS on any of my rifles and those have served their purpose just fine for years. If you're saying the BUIS on these is flimsy you're nit picking and I personally disagree with the nit you've picked in this case.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5044/5269558397_64406aeb94_z.jpg

How exactly would a real rifle, have a knock off airsoft set of integral BUIS? If you really think I'm nit picking about sights that tall and skinny being flimsy I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Well, until someone has the balls to drop test their Tavor...

I can't argue with the trigger other than to ask if you've ever felt a standard GI trigger in an AR15 because it's not that much better than this one.

Again, not sure if serious! I have plenty of standard GI triggered AR's, I also have high end triggers and a bull pup rifle. Plus I have handled many bull pups like the FS2000 and Aug. The Tavor trigger was by far last place and I would call a standard AR-15 GI trigger a huge upgrade!

I've been competing in long-range precision competitions for years so I'm well aware of what a good trigger feels like and I don't put as much value in an amazingly light & crisp/clean trigger on a battle rifle. It's kind of like putting super high-performance tires on a Geo Metro IMO. Sure, it can help a little bit but to get the true performance you need another platform.

Im not saying a battle rifle or CQB carbine needs a 3.5# two stage Geissele to be effective, but a 10# PLUS with spongy, gritty feel and lots of travel and huge reset is a distinct disadvantage. If I'm so off base, why does Googling "Tavor trigger" return so many people saying the same thing? Seems like the only guys not hating the triggers are the die hard "fan boys" who won't admit it? I was reading about it to see if I (and my buddies who have been handling a bunch of these lately) were the only ones who werent appalled! lol I have one class 3 buddy who bought a case full of them. Everyone we opened was the same way. I honestly thought the first one was damaged, 8 or 10 later we realized it was actually the status quo…

We were all bummed to say the least! Luckily, I'm not the one who has a case full to sell...

Jer

11-22-13, 10:19

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5044/5269558397_64406aeb94_z.jpg

How exactly would a real rifle, have a knock off airsoft set of integral BUIS? If you really think I'm nit picking about sights that tall and skinny being flimsy I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Well, until someone has the balls to drop test their Tavor...

Again, not sure if serious! I have plenty of standard GI triggered AR's, I also have high end triggers and a bull pup rifle. Plus I have handled many bull pups like the FS2000 and Aug. The Tavor trigger was by far last place and I would call a standard AR-15 GI trigger a huge upgrade!

Im not saying a battle rifle or CQB carbine needs a 3.5# two stage Geissele to be effective, but a 10# PLUS with spongy, gritty feel and lots of travel and huge reset is a distinct disadvantage. If I'm so off base, why does Googling "Tavor trigger" return so many people saying the same thing? Seems like the only guys not hating the triggers are the die hard "fan boys" who won't admit it? I was reading about it to see if I (and my buddies who have been handling a bunch of these lately) were the only ones who werent appalled! lol I have one class 3 buddy who bought a case full of them. Everyone we opened was the same way. I honestly thought the first one was damaged, 8 or 10 later we realized it was actually the status quo…

We were all bummed to say the least! Luckily, I'm not the one who has a case full to sell...

Maybe read what I said before coming into this Tavor thread to troll. I said that once the return spring was removed it is on par with a standard GI AR15 trigger. There are also a lot of people hating on piston driven AR's but that doesn't make them the garbage they wish they were. Tons of negativity and stories of Glock blowing up but that doesn't make them the least reliable handgun that some would have you think. In short, you sure are basing a LOT of your review on what anonymous people say on the internet. I've owned several and once the return spring is removed (takes about 2min total) the trigger is on par with a GI AR15 trigger. That's about where the cons end and the pros outweigh that IMO. If that's not your opinion then move along. Nothing to see here.

BTL BRN

11-22-13, 11:17

While I would be the last one to suggest that the Tavor has anything even remotely similiar to a Geissele/etc; the fact is that the trigger mechanism actually works most similarly to a standard AR rifle and the pull is very close to a new GI trigger (as opposed to the linkage on a FS or AUG). They do in fact smooth out some, after a couple thousand rounds I would submit that the pull weight is probably around 8 lbs.

On topic however, I would certainly be apt to purchase whatever Geissele is putting forth; ALL of my AR's have their wonderful triggers in them, and I sure that this will be no exception.

SamM

11-22-13, 11:40

My experience with the Tavor trigger is about the same. Once you remove the reset spring, it's not that bad. Well, it's better anyway but far from great. I can use it just fine and print decent groups from my rifle. I look forward to whatever Geissele produces for the Tavor. If Geissele never produced a trigger, I would still use my rifle and just make due with it, as is!

My Tavor got a front rail section and a Magpul RVG today. I plan to shoot a whitetail next week with it.

Mall_Ninja

11-22-13, 14:00

Maybe read what I said before coming into this Tavor thread to troll.

I always read the entire thread before posting and I even quoted your own words for you. Troll? You serious? I gave personal opinions based on first hand experience. If that is "your definition" of a troll then I guess all the SME's, Mods, etc. here are all trolls too? Just because the information given doesn't help you feel a warm fuzzy about your rifle doesn't make it inaccurate. I think you are a bit too emotionally attached to your rig...

I said that once the return spring was removed it is on par with a standard GI AR15 trigger.

Thats nice and all, but I'm not recommending to anyone to just plain remove part of their fire controls. And I WOULD recommend if you ever shoot anyone with that rifle you put all the OEM parts back in before the authorities seize it for evidence...

In short, you sure are basing a LOT of your review on what anonymous people say on the internet.

Really?…..really? lol

I've owned several and once the return spring is removed (takes about 2min total) the trigger is on par with a GI AR15 trigger. That's about where the cons end and the pros outweigh that IMO. If that's not your opinion then move along. Nothing to see here.

So anyone who doesn't share your opinion need not share theirs? Seems legit…

Hopefully Geissele is able to work their magic. I think there are a ton of guys like you who had much higher expectations and would be willing to pay Geissele to fix a major FUBAR so they can enjoy their rig. Thats certainly a much better solution, from a safety and liability standpoint than removing FCG parts...

milosz

11-24-13, 01:27

Thats nice and all, but I'm not recommending to anyone to just plain remove part of their fire controls. And I WOULD recommend if you ever shoot anyone with that rifle you put all the OEM parts back in before the authorities seize it for evidence...
This is one that gets tossed out a lot - how many cases can be cited where the removal of a spring (or similar level of alteration) played a role in prosecution?
How often does the state completely strip a weapon involved in a case to the point where anyone involved might have a clue that a spring is missing?
How would the prosecution prove that the spring was removed rather than simply missing? (Unless you tell them, but everyone should know that Rule 1 is "don't tell the cops anything.")
How does this alteration differ from the addition of non-OEM parts in general, or in trigger jobs? Does everyone with Apex parts in their pistol need to completely change them if they "shoot someone"?

Mall_Ninja

11-25-13, 15:10

I lack the motivation to do the research you ask. But I can say, that I watch enough news and have enough first hand inside info to warn against such practices. That being said, I also lack the motivation to research how many times a seat belt saves a life, but none the less, I still wear mine 24-7...

Jer

11-25-13, 15:22

I lack the motivation to do the research you ask. But I can say, that I watch enough news and have enough first hand inside info to warm against such practices. That being said, I also lack the motivation to research how many times a seat belt saves a life, but none the less, I still wear mine 24-7...

Yet another helpful and well thought out post based on fact.

Mall_Ninja

11-25-13, 15:36

Yet another helpful and well thought out post based on fact.

You should repeat those words while standing in the mirror…

The "Troll" post as well...

Jer

11-25-13, 15:39

You should repeat those words while standing in the mirror…

The "Troll" post as well...

Just keep posting on things you know nothing about as if you are an expert. Makes you look super talented.

Mall_Ninja

11-25-13, 16:23

Just keep posting on things you know nothing about as if you are an expert. Makes you look super talented.

Well I'm guessing your experience is actually LESS than my own since I have handle near a dozen. You own what, one? You have an obvious and severe emotional attachment. I feel sorry for you, I really do...

ptmccain

11-25-13, 16:30

Lock time!!

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

Jer

11-25-13, 16:30

Well I'm guessing your experience is actually LESS than my own since I have handle near a dozen. You own what, one? You have an obvious and severe emotional attachment. I feel sorry for you, I really do...

Handled? lol

You held a dozen. Unlike you I've owned three now since they came out and have sent thousands of rounds down range on them. I'd say that I have a little bit better idea of what I'm talking about then someone who has held a few. I even posted details on the trigger modification and based on your response you know absolutely nothing about how the fire control group/pack works on this system. In other words, you held a Tavor and came in here spouting your profound wisdom and nobody cares. You also clearly don't plan to own one let alone care about the upgraded trigger pack we're discussing so you don't belong here. Leave.

Mall_Ninja

11-25-13, 17:03

In other words, you held a Tavor and came in here spouting your profound wisdom and nobody cares.

You seem to care quite a lot?

You also clearly don't plan to own one let alone care about the upgraded trigger pack we're discussing so you don't belong here. Leave.

Actually, quite the opposite. I was doing research on trigger options, as I stated already, when I stumbled on this thread. My two main gripes, as I already stated, were the atrocious OEM trigger and flimsy BUIS. Geissele would be my #1 pic to fix the trigger and running quality aftermarket BUIS would fix both of those issues I have. However, until I see what Geissele can do I still am heavily steering towards the FS2000. Time will tell...

Jer

11-25-13, 18:01

You seem to care quite a lot?

Actually, quite the opposite. I was doing research on trigger options, as I stated already, when I stumbled on this thread. My two main gripes, as I already stated, were the atrocious OEM trigger and flimsy BUIS. Geissele would be my #1 pic to fix the trigger and running quality aftermarket BUIS would fix both of those issues I have. However, until I see what Geissele can do I still am heavily steering towards the FS2000. Time will tell...

You think that the FS2000 is a better option than a Tavor? Yeah, we're done here.

Mall_Ninja

11-26-13, 00:35

You think that the FS2000 is a better option than a Tavor? Yeah, we're done here.

Not sure if serious?

http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=2742.0

http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-fs2000/43285-does-fs2000-stack-up-against-tavor.html

Doesn't take much poking around to see that:

TAR-21, not good for suppressed fire (huge bummer for me), accuracy seems to be Minute-O-Man and you eat a lot of the gas even unsupressed.
FS2K, more accurate, no brass or ejection gas in face, but no Bolt Hold open really sucks.
Aug A3 you gain back the BHO but same problem as the TAR-21 if you shoot weak side often especially if suppressed.

I have first hand experience with all of the bullpups and I would still combine many of each's features to arrive at an "ideal" setup, bummer...

But it seems you are the troll now, as we have strayed way off topic due to your attempts to stir a flame war with me. Glad to hear we are "done here"...

BTL BRN

11-26-13, 10:43

I would find it very suprising for anyone to objectively prefer the FS2000's trigger to the Tavor.

As for accuracy, here is a three shot group (I know only three, the other holes are from previous groupings) using the mag as a monopod from 25 yards and 64 grain Gold Dots; I was happy with the results.

http://i41.tinypic.com/n2d1c1.jpg

Jer

11-26-13, 12:10

Not sure if serious?

http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=2742.0

http://fnforum.net/forums/fn-fs2000/43285-does-fs2000-stack-up-against-tavor.html

Doesn't take much poking around to see that:

TAR-21, not good for suppressed fire (huge bummer for me), accuracy seems to be Minute-O-Man and you eat a lot of the gas even unsupressed.
FS2K, more accurate, no brass or ejection gas in face, but no Bolt Hold open really sucks.
Aug A3 you gain back the BHO but same problem as the TAR-21 if you shoot weak side often especially if suppressed.

I have first hand experience with all of the bullpups and I would still combine many of each's features to arrive at an "ideal" setup, bummer...

But it seems you are the troll now, as we have strayed way off topic due to your attempts to stir a flame war with me. Glad to hear we are "done here"...

Only an idiot uses a phrase like: Not sure if serious? and you've done it several times now. Go back to bardcom and take your know-it-all attitude with you.

TAR-21 not good for suppressed fire. Is that so? Because I run suppressed and I prefer it to a suppressed AR15 for numerous reasons and not the least of which is LESS gas to eat and better balance. You don't 'eat' any more gas with a Tavor than an AR15 and in my experience it's even less and that includes suppressed. Again, if you had ANY hands on experience you might have the slightest idea what you're talking about. Instead you come in here acting like you know everything because you read a thread and held one once. The brass does NOT hit you in the face especially if you use the rifle as intended. You want to run left-handed? Then convert it to left handed and run it 100% as intended. If you're switching back and forth and using 5.56mm ammo you will most certainly NOT get hit in the face with cases. I've run both 5.56mm as well as .223 in both positions and have NOT taken a single case to the face, suppressed or unsuppressed. You've read a thread or two online and taken one or two experiences as the rule rather than the exception and I can tell you that with several rifles and thousands of rounds in various conditions suppressed & unsuppressed I haven't experienced ANYTHING that you are trying to say is normal and basing your opinion on. For all the reasons I've mentioned plus 100% AR15 magazine compatibility, last round bolt hold open, better ergonomics, caliber change kits and a whole host of other reasons I don't feel the need to get into the Tavor is a superior weapon.

I'm the troll? You just admitted that you feel that the FS2000 is a better system than a Tavor. ROFL Anyone with first hand experience reading this now knows that your 'opinion' is worthless. Keep typing....

ptmccain

11-26-13, 12:34

For what it is worth, I have good quality trigger time behind both the TAVOR and the FS2000.

I sold the FS2000 to buy a TAVOR.

The FS200 is, in my opinion, a clunky rifle, with an odd manual of arms. It feels like you are holding a plastic suitcase, it's trigger is simply horrible, it is ridiculously awkward to field strip, the bolt does not hold open, the "flip the lid to inspect the chamber" system is a joke. It is cool how the brass dribbles out the front, I'll give it that.

The TAVOR is very noticeably better built, easier to operate, shoulders much better, is more compact feeling, it a breeze to field strip, nearly instantly, and the OEM trigger is just fine.

The TAVOR is, by far, the superior bullpup to the FS2000, and less expensive as well, and far more flexible a platform.

Anyone who say otherwise simply demonstrates they have no idea what they are talking about.

SamM

11-26-13, 12:56

The FS2000 is very odd. I have trigger time on the FN. A friend of a friend has one. The trapdoor is just plain weird. Not sure what they were thinking on that! When it came time for me to purchase, I bought one of the first 1000 Tavor rifles sold by IWI. It's a great rifle. I paid a premium to get it but it was worth every penny. Once the aftermarket gears up more for it, look out. I'm looking forward to the Geissele trigger fix and a nice ambidextrous safety lever. I'd like to see IWI sell extra QD sling cups, so I can make an ambi front sling mount. I'd use a second cup on the right and use a small bolt to attach them together. Should work.

I sold my AUG/A3 to purchase my Tavor. I wouldn't go back.

MountainRaven

11-26-13, 20:20

I've owned one AUG (Steyr A3), one AUG clone (MSAR), one FS2000, and two Tavors. I've also spent more than my fair share of time with PS90s and a pre-89 100% Austrian AUG.

If I were to buy another bull pup, it would be a Tavor, hands down.

Mall_Ninja

11-26-13, 23:42

Only an idiot uses a phrase like: Not sure if serious? and you've done it several times now.

Is that what keeps getting you so fired up? LOL

Go back to bardcom and take your know-it-all attitude with you.

bardcom? WTF is that? LOL

Why do you keep trying to get me in a shouting match with you? Are you mad that I won't stoop to your level and start name calling? Didn't you already state you were "done"? Why do you keep coming "un-done"? :cool:

I'm the troll? You just admitted that you feel that the FS2000 is a better system than a Tavor. ROFL Anyone with first hand experience reading this now knows that your 'opinion' is worthless. Keep typing....

If it so worthless, why spend so much time trying to prove it? Just keep living your life, you can't expect to indoctrinate everyone you meet. Surely you have family to spend valuable time with instead of wasting it trying to convince anyone who thinks differently than you. Or, maybe you don't have anything else worth spending time on, if thats the case, no sarcasm meant, I truly feel sorry for you!

I sold the FS2000 to buy a TAVOR.

The FS200 is, in my opinion, a clunky rifle, with an odd manual of arms. It feels like you are holding a plastic suitcase, it's trigger is simply horrible, it is ridiculously awkward to field strip, the bolt does not hold open, the "flip the lid to inspect the chamber" system is a joke. It is cool how the brass dribbles out the front, I'll give it that.
The TAVOR is, by far, the superior bullpup to the FS2000, and less expensive as well, and far more flexible a platform.

Anyone who say otherwise simply demonstrates they have no idea what they are talking about.

You did buy the FS2000, just saying...