View Full Version : Getting back into reloading (Questions)
About 7-10 years ago I put up my reloader, Lee 3 hole turret (also have a lee "C" single stage). Ammo prices on surplus rifle was the factor, and WWB from wally world for pistol.
Step forward to April 2008 I am going to start reloading again mostly .45acp and 9x19. Buttttt...
I want to start reloading .223 and never loaded rifle cartridges, only pistol/shotgun/37mm
I have to pull out the old manuals and read, but would like some input/help with rifle loading. My lee beam scale probably needs to be retired and buy an electronic one to replace it. Money is a concern so what else will I need to purchase to reload?
I currently have a tumbler/media seperator, beam scale, turret and single stage press, pocket primer pocket cleaner large & small, chamfer tool,Lee .45acp/9x19/.223 die sets (3 die)
Should I upgrade to a 4 hole turret for a factory crimp die?
Is a crimp die necessary? Both for rifle and pistol?
Will my auto disc powder measure work with rifle .223?
If not, recomendations???
My first load out will be for 55gr fmj punching paper rounds, what powder and bullet will be a good starting point? I will eventually work up to some sort of TAP personal defense/v-max (Hornady loading)
I have a STAG 11 1/2 inch .556chambered 1/7 twist I would also like to load for but have no Idea where to start.
Enough for now sorry so long winded , many questions and very excited to get started again. Any help is appriciated.
Robert
i've used the lee factory crimp die for awhile.
it seems to do a nice job, but i tried a bunch of uncrimped rounds yesterday, and i found them to be just as accurate.
setback is apparently not a concern in an AR15 assuming you won't be treating your ammo too harshly.
for SHTF/personal defense/long term storage ammo, i'd probably crimp. if you're gonna just burn it up at the range the day after you load it, no sense.
About 7-10 years ago I put up my reloader, Lee 3 hole turret (also have a lee "C" single stage). Ammo prices on surplus rifle was the factor, and WWB from wally world for pistol.
Step forward to April 2008 I am going to start reloading again mostly .45acp and 9x19. Buttttt...
I want to start reloading .223 and never loaded rifle cartridges, only pistol/shotgun/37mm
I have to pull out the old manuals and read, but would like some input/help with rifle loading. My lee beam scale probably needs to be retired and buy an electronic one to replace it. Money is a concern so what else will I need to purchase to reload?
Not necessarily. An electronic scale is a convenience, but my Lee balance checks perfectly with my PACT. If money is a concern, hold off.
I currently have a tumbler/media separator, beam scale, turret and single stage press, pocket primer pocket cleaner large & small, chamfer tool, Lee .45acp/9x19/.223 die sets (3 die)
Get a trimmer for the .223 (mandatory). Trim after resizing and then tumble the lube off the cases.
IMHO, trimmers are optional for pistol. I bought them but I find my cases never grow enough to warrant trimming.
Should I upgrade to a 4 hole turret for a factory crimp die?
It depends if you want to use batch processing for your resizing operation (not a bad idea for the .223 since you'll need to trim after resizing), but not necessary for pistol. If you decide to use batch processing, set your C-Press up for resizing, and set the three-holer up for charging, seating and crimping. Or remove the auto-index and set up one turret head with all three resizers and use it as a single stage for resizing, and then have your other three turrets set up for each caliber, and advance the turret by hand. Add a little grease/CLP to the turret to allow smooth operation.
If you elect to use your C-Frame for resizing and you keep your auto-advance set up on the TP, tnd adjust your auto-advance with the dies mounted (if you get it dialed in with an empty turret, and then you add the weight of the dies and measure, you'll throw the timing off.
I would recommend getting dedicated turrets for each set of dies. Makes life much easier.
Is a crimp die necessary? Both for rifle and pistol?
I think they're worth it. You can adjust crimp and see what your gun likes, but I think they improve feeding and give you a safety margin against setback.
Will my auto disc powder measure work with rifle .223?
Depends on which powder you use. In some cases you may need to add the Double Disk Kit to get up around 24-25 grains of extruded.
If not, recomendations???
Maybe a Perfect Powder Measure for extruded. Great for extruded, not so great for ball (it leaks). But then you'll have to charge off the press using a loading block (batch). Don't bother weighing every charge, just weigh the first couple to get your measure dialed in. Some say weigh every tenth thereafter, but I've never found it useful. Measures don't get out adjustment.
My first load out will be for 55gr fmj punching paper rounds, what powder and bullet will be a good starting point?
Ramshot TAC, H-335 or AA2230.
I will eventually work up to some sort of TAP personal defense/v-max (Hornady loading)
I have a STAG 11 1/2 inch .556chambered 1/7 twist I would also like to load for but have no Idea where to start.
Enough for now sorry so long winded , many questions and very excited to get started again. Any help is appriciated.
Robert
Have fun and don't be shy about asking questions.
Thanks,
Exactly the info I was looking for. Thanks J-mart and skyugo, this is exactly the reason I love this forum.
I have decided to go with the Ramshot TAC and 55 gr. FMJBT canalured. Had a pleasent suprise when I opened my .223 lee die set I bought last month, it came with the Lee factory crimp die. As soon as all my .223 components get here Im sure I will have a few more questions.
Robert
I've heard some say a crimp is not required.
I crimp to be safe with the AR due to set back. Just be sure it's a light crimp. I found I was putting a deep ring around my bullet. When I backed it off I found my 55 gr FMJ went from about 3.5" at 200 yards to just over 2" in a 5 shot group.
Yeah. I use a light factory crimp on my practice ammo. I think the "No crimp" guys are nuts when it comes to an auto loading rifle. Depending on your expander ball you could really have some loose bullets.
Yeah. I use a light factory crimp on my practice ammo. I think the "No crimp" guys are nuts when it comes to an auto loading rifle. Depending on your expander ball you could really have some loose bullets.
The problem is neck tension changes over the life of the brass as it's reloaded over and over. Unless you anneal (and who the hell bothers with that for .223 cases), then your neck tension won't be the same on the 4th/5th relaod as it is on the 1st reload.
To a certain extent, depending upon powder type and bullet type, crimping may not be absolutely necessary. If you are loading extruded in heavy BTs, then you're going to have enough powder density to preclude any significant setback (if any), but if loading lighter 55 grain pills, setback can occur.
Oh, one more thing. I'm not sure what kind of case lube you plan on using, I use Hornady One Shot.
Don't skimp on the case lube!
It will save you a ton of time NOT having to extract a stuck case from the sizing die.
I put my cases in a 50 piece tray (you can get them anywhere) and spay each side twice. That's 8 turns, but a light coat each time. When I do one 360 I get a stuck case very so often. Since I've done two full rotations I've not had any. It's cheap insurance.
Oh GOD! Don't get me started on ONE SHOT!
I had to suffer through a whole pump bottle of that stuff, and it is the WORST! ONE SHOT sucks in every way possible. I have to use twice as much to get half the lubing that Dillon case lube does. Then... the shit won't come off of your brass in the tumbler. I can tumble off Dillon in 30 minutes in the tumbler. With One Shit, i was having to wipe each and every round with a damp cloth, and then tumble it.
When I finally got a couple of bottles of Dillon case lube again last year, I was in heaven. I can't believe all the suffering I did with that one shit stuff.:mad:
Oh GOD! Don't get me started on ONE SHOT!
I had to suffer through a whole pump bottle of that stuff, and it is the WORST! ONE SHOT sucks in every way possible. I have to use twice as much to get half the lubing that Dillon case lube does. Then... the shit won't come off of your brass in the tumbler. I can tumble off Dillon in 30 minutes in the tumbler. With One Shit, i was having to wipe each and every round with a damp cloth, and then tumble it.
When I finally got a couple of bottles of Dillon case lube again last year, I was in heaven. I can't believe all the suffering I did with that one shit stuff.:mad:
Do you roll it on from a pad or can it be sprayed on?
I tried the pad route and had a lot of problems not to mention it took forever.....
I dump my loaded ammo onto a rag and wipe off the one shot/shit....
A 99c spray bottle from Ace.
Lee lube diluted 1:4 w/91% alcohol.
A big Ziploc bag.
Spray and shake.
Spread on cookie sheet.
Let the sun hit them or toss in a warm oven for a couple of minutes.
Size away.
Do you roll it on from a pad or can it be sprayed on?
I tried the pad route and had a lot of problems not to mention it took forever.....
I dump my loaded ammo onto a rag and wipe off the one shot/shit....
Pump spray. I do too much volume to use the pad. My loads are for practice ammo so I need to be able to spray and then tumble off. I won't go back to manually wiping cases off again..... that was just one of the short falls of One Shot.
Pump spray. I do too much volume to use the pad. My loads are for practice ammo so I need to be able to spray and then tumble off. I won't go back to manually wiping cases off again..... that was just one of the short falls of One Shot.
OK, I'm off to Dillon's web page to see what this stuff is like.
EDIT: I was just at Dillon's site. If I understand correctly I only have to lay them out on a hard surface and spray and let it distribute? No need to put in a case holder? If so I'm ordering tonight.....
I have the Lee case lube but will order some of Dillons to try out as well. I hate going there love their stuff but out of my budget right now.:( :(
Robert
If I understand correctly I only have to lay them out on a hard surface and spray and let it distribute? No need to put in a case holder? If so I'm ordering tonight.....
YEAH!
All I do is dump my brass in a tray and give it a few mists of lube. It seeps all over the brass on its own. I have a few dedicated trays for this because the trays get a little sticky.
With Dillon you can actually run and unlubed case thru the die because some of the lube remains in the die from previous cases. It's infinitely more forgiving than one shot.
You're going to love this stuff.
YEAH!
All I do is dump my brass in a tray and give it a few mists of lube. It seeps all over the brass on its own. I have a few dedicated trays for this because the trays get a little sticky.
With Dillon you can actually run and unlubed case thru the die because some of the lube remains in the die from previous cases. It's infinitely more forgiving than one shot.
You're going to love this stuff.
Well that did it..... I've been wanting to get the Dillon tool kit for the 550 that mounts on the press. I'll tag the lube onto the order. (I have this thing about paying shipping for one little item) :(
Thanks for the tip, looks like my wife is going to be short one of her old cookie sheets......
(I have this thing about paying shipping for one little item) :(
That's why I suffered with the One shot for so long. I didn't want to order just the case lube.... I finally drove up to Dillon's showroom and got two bottles.
Thanks for the tip, looks like my wife is going to be short one of her old cookie sheets......
That will work, but I use two stackable 8X10 disposable plastic containers. I found that the cookie tray was a little big, and you don't need a direct hit on every piece of rifle brass for the lube to work. The thing with Dillon case lube is you can spray 5.56 brass an inch thick in the container and it'll trickle on down to all the brass.... Or spray the brass, and then mix it up with your fingers. It's SO user friendly.
I've heard that Dillon lube is essentially Lanolin and alcohol. You could probably make your own for a lot less.
The Lee lube works well when dilluted. If you have a local gun shop that stocks this, try a tube. It's only a couple of bucks for a tube, and when mixed 4:1, you end up with around 10oz of lube. Just 2-3 squirts will do 100 cases easily in a Ziploc bag.
Thanks for all the tips.
Robert, looks like you've got enough info to jump back in with both feet!!!
I've heard that Dillon lube is essentially Lanolin and alcohol. You could probably make your own for a lot less.
You probably could. But it's not that expensive, and I like getting a new pump bottle every time because they get gooped up and wear out.
I just tried Dillon lube for the first time.
It's good stuff, very easy to use. It's a winner and all I'll use from now on unless I've not no other choice.
Anything that makes processing loads of rifle brass easier is nice!
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