Wonder when this solution will occur?

[No.6]

With all the NSA tracking and data gathering on US citizens happening, I'm wondering when someone will offer the obvious (to me) solution on keeping complete and total tracking on their targets? The solution? RFID chips implanted into everyone with readers embedded into every portal including your residence. Don't have one, then no admittance. Now they will know when you get on a train, off a bus, into a taxi, go to work, take a smoke break, take a dump, go to sleep, raid the refrigerator in the middle of the night, etc. All in the name of protecting you and your privacy no doubt. And what better way to "clear" yourself of a crime by proving your whereabouts on the night of.... At least until someone manipulates the data to show otherwise. But they'd NEVER do that would they?

[MountainRaven]

Why would they when they can track you using your phone and car through their GPS systems without raising a single suspicion?

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

And facial recognition And license plate readers with all of the security cameras all over the place now.

[Army Chief]

I suspect something like that would be sold and mainstreamed in much the same way as we've seen folks rush to add third-party monitored cameras to their home security systems. We've all seen the commercials. Never mind the fact that you have no idea who might be watching what, or when. The idea is that your security is enhanced. I marvel at the stupidity of these folks. The guys I hang out with tend to put electrical tape over their flipping smart phone cams. lol

In much the same way, an RF tag could be marketed as a convenient replacement for keys, or as a way to control access to your home or office. Once the technology is adopted, it's not a long leap to intrusion and exploitation -- even if the government itself were to steer entirely clear of this, which is of course, a bit too much to expect. Stick around long enough, and I suppose Blade Runner won't seem like such a post-apocalyptic and esoteric film, after all. It will still be pretty blatantly depressing, though.

AC

[No.6]

Why would they when they can track you using your phone and car through their GPS systems without raising a single suspicion?


Because you don't always have your phone with you (at least I don't) and you aren't always in your car. With the RFID, you can be found anywhere at anytime.
What better way to be protected? If your child is kidnapped, unless the kidnapper is on foot the entire time (ie never gets into a car or public transport and never enters a building) then you'd know where they were and who they're with. It's for the children.
It could also stop those pesky meetings between leakers and reporters. Sure could save a lot of embarrassment to an administration. It's for national security.
And think how much it would benefit the health/insurance industry. They could tell that you've been visiting the local McDonalds too many times this week. It's for health benefits.
Why they could even monitor terrorists! They can tell when and how many times you've attended a tea party meeting. It's for your safety.

[MountainRaven]

Because you don't always have your phone with you (at least I don't) and you aren't always in your car.

Most people own cell phones. Almost everybody does, even kids these days. Most people who do have a cell phone have it on or near their person at all times, day and night. Not figuratively, literally. And most of the people who don't will almost invariably have their cell phone on their person at all times when they are not at home.

And anything of substance (to a police state) done at home can be monitored in other ways.


What better way to be protected? If your child is kidnapped, unless the kidnapper is on foot the entire time (ie never gets into a car or public transport and never enters a building) then you'd know where they were and who they're with. It's for the children.

No it isn't.


It could also stop those pesky meetings between leakers and reporters. Sure could save a lot of embarrassment to an administration. It's for national security.

Turn on the reporters' cell phone's microphones and GPSs. Voice recognition software. Turn on the GPSs of everyone suspected of leaking (if they're smart, they won't have their cell phone on them or they will have them turned off, either way, something that none of the other suspected leakers will be doing at that time). Simple. Done.


And think how much it would benefit the health/insurance industry. They could tell that you've been visiting the local McDonalds too many times this week. It's for health benefits.

Phone. Car. Credit cards/checks/electronic checks.


Why they could even monitor terrorists! They can tell when and how many times you've attended a tea party meeting. It's for your safety.

Terrorists coordinate using the internet. Which is monitored.
They communicate using cell phones. Which are monitored.
They travel using cars and airplanes. Which are monitored.
They pay with checks (monitored), cash (monitored), or cards (monitored).

Seriously dude, there is no need for it from their perspective. They already have everything they need to track you, me, and everyone else on this forum, unless you drop off the grid. In which case, they won't care, because you will have effectively neutralized yourself. (And if you are still effective off the grid, they'll use your messengers to find you and kill you and throw you into the ocean. And no one will care except for a handful of 'conspiracy theorists'.)

[No.6]

So I take you'd decline the chip implantation when the government mandates it?

BTW, a lot of my posts are from a sarcasm/satire point. It's just my nature and how I think. I hate where this country has been going for the past 50+ years. Yes, there have been some improvements, but for the most part our forefathers wouldn't recognize it as even being related to what they brought forth. Do I want the NSA reading my emails? No. Listening in on my phone calls? No. Monitoring what I eat, where I sleep, who I associate with? No. None of their business.

[MountainRaven]

So I take you'd decline the chip implantation when the government mandates it?

I thought I just made a pretty solid argument for why the government would never need to and never will.

(Particularly given that the next technological step from the cell phone, tablet computer, and 'Google Glass' will probably be implanted computers and cell phones. Why mandate something hugely expensive that people won't want, when you can package it up in a way that makes it convenient for them to use that also happens to be cool and chiq and everybody will be happy to pay for out of their own pocket?)


BTW, a lot of my posts are from a sarcasm/satire point. It's just my nature and how I think. I hate where this country has been going for the past 50+ years. Yes, there have been some improvements, but for the most part our forefathers wouldn't recognize it as even being related to what they brought forth. Do I want the NSA reading my emails? No. Listening in on my phone calls? No. Monitoring what I eat, where I sleep, who I associate with? No. None of their business.

I don't think anybody is fond of the idea. Except some dickheads in DC.

[No.6]

I thought I just made a pretty solid argument for why the government would never need to and never will.

(Particularly given that the next technological step from the cell phone, tablet computer, and 'Google Glass' will probably be implanted computers and cell phones.)



I don't think anybody is fond of the idea. Except some dickheads in DC.


Just because "would never need to" doesn't mean they wouldn't want to and find some justification in doing so. More data points=better control.

[Alpha Sierra]

Neither of my cars have GPS and our phones are old school dumb phones with an easily removable battery. I don't own a tablet, laptop, iPad, or any other personal electronic device.

I will kill anyone who tries to implant me or anyone in my family with anything remotely resembling a tracking device. There, I said it and I don't GAF. Some lines are not to be crossed.

[No.6]

Neither of my cars have GPS and our phones are old school dumb phones with an easily removable battery. I don't own a tablet, laptop, iPad, or any other personal electronic device.

I will kill anyone who tries to implant me or anyone in my family with anything remotely resembling a tracking device. There, I said it and I don't GAF. Some lines are not to be crossed.

But how can you argue with the logic in your sig line?
If this comes to pass, you know it'll be sold the way AC said. For you own good and the good of society.

[Peshawar]

Just wait for the laws that require you to communicate with a trackable device. :p

Oh and.... (http://crave.cnet.co.uk/software/google-boss-predicts-google-implant-will-put-the-web-in-your-head-by-2020-50001515/)

[jpmuscle]

Give it a few years and Im sure facebook will try and incorporate it in their repertoire as a new feature. It wasn't that long ago that the notion of people putting every aspect of their daily lives online to be consumed and monitored by their peers was a flight of fancy. It makes it hard to fight for privacy protections when the people are all to eager and willing to give it up by their own volition.

[obucina]

I suspect something like that would be sold and mainstreamed in much the same way as we've seen folks rush to add third-party monitored cameras to their home security systems. We've all seen the commercials. Never mind the fact that you have no idea who might be watching what, or when. The idea is that your security is enhanced. I marvel at the stupidity of these folks. The guys I hang out with tend to put electrical tape over their flipping smart phone cams. lol

In much the same way, an RF tag could be marketed as a convenient replacement for keys, or as a way to control access to your home or office. Once the technology is adopted, it's not a long leap to intrusion and exploitation -- even if the government itself were to steer entirely clear of this, which is of course, a bit too much to expect. Stick around long enough, and I suppose Blade Runner won't seem like such a post-apocalyptic and esoteric film, after all. It will still be pretty blatantly depressing, though.

AC

a company in south florida was pushing its implated RFID vile(in more ways than one) implant pretty hard around the time John Roberts was being confirmed. The company, which seemed to be nothing more than 2 dudes, droned on about business security and safety, etc. What concerns me about the acceptance of RFID implants is the safety of ones child. It somewhat dawned on me when I took the furry, four legged family member into the vet last week. While, having an RF chip for the kibble vacuum can help aid in its return. Most yuppie parents are willing to take on whatever new fad is heralded as keeping their kid safe. Hell, just look at the health crap that Playmate of the Year 1994 has stirred up!

[Moose-Knuckle]

Many cars already have them but starting in 2014 NHTSA/DOT has mandated that all new cars must have a an EDR (Event Data Recorder).

[Mac5.56]

As mentioned cars already have this technology.

EZ Pass is also being used on the East Coast in court cases to track movement.

Cell phones have it.

The chip isn't far off though. They will market it to young parents as the safest way to insure your child never gets kidnapped, it will become a social trend, and only the bad parents wont do it. CPS organizations will mandate it on all children that enter their systems.

All of one's personal information, health information, passport information and banking information will be contained on the chip. Convenience will be the selling point to adults.

I know engineers that actually strive for this as the new next big step.

[Army Chief]

Not to go into Bible-thumper mode, but for those raised with any exposure to prophecy, it is interesting at the very least to see how certain things are possible -- if not effortless -- today that weren't even imaginable to the tent preachers of the last century.

A common currency standard? Ability to communicate to virtually the entire race of man in near-real time? The remotest possibility of a one-world government? Even the cryptic "mark of the Beast" (666) could easily be realized as nothing more than a subcutaneous ID chip that could greatly streamline ID requirements, handle common monetary transactions and provide greater personal security. You could probaby stop carrying a wallet altogether.

Again, don't go reaching for your tin hats or anything, and if you have zero interest in the topic, I respect your stance. I just find it amusing to consider how some old school preacher from 100 years ago might respond to the kinds of tech news that we now brush off as routine. I remember when the very fact that Israel was reestablished as a nation was viewed as a pretty serious prophetic marker, and that was realized well over 60 years ago.

To get back on topic, the core problem here is that our lives are being inexorably intertwined with tech, and in most cases, that does serve to make our lives easier, safer or more efficient in many ways. I suspect it will only continue to do so, and widespread acceptance is a foregone conclusion. The unsettling question at times like these is this: at what point does our rational conformation with progress begin to work toward our detriment? Perhaps, in many ways, we are already there, but I suspect we really "ain't seen nothing yet."

Vigilance.

AC

[Mac5.56]

You could probaby stop carrying a wallet altogether.
AC

Oh that is very much the goal. There are small communities of tech geeks all over the world that have these chips implanted already and they have clubs where they can pay for their drinks by swiping their arms across a computer. I studied up on the tech when I was in my undergraduate degree. Not sure where it is now, but when the technology was new there were movements to link one's bank account to a voluntary RFID chip and people were getting them.

Regarding other technology my wife is a Type 1 diabetic. When she was pregnant she reluctantly abandoned a syringe and shots for the most up to date pump/CGM tech available in the US. She literally is a minor form of cyborg. She has two wireless devices that communicate back and forth with one another, record data, compute data, work together in concert to "attempt" (it's not perfect yet) to regulate her blood sugar.

It's pretty crazy and a bit off putting, but when you are directly linked to modern technology because of a disability you don't just dismiss it if it means you can have a healthy "normal" life.

The thing that's scary though for both of us is that this technology paves the way for acceptance of minor or major cybernetic implants both on a medical and a consumer level.

[jpmuscle]

The thing that's scary though for both of us is that this technology paves the way for acceptance of minor or major cybernetic implants both on a medical and a consumer level.

Case in point,

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2372591/Google-planning-micro-chip-peoples-brains-Engineering-boss-says-sci-fi-style-technology-begin-helping-disabled-people-control-wheelchairs.html

[Vash1023]

The cell phone can already replace your wallet, car keys and house keys.

If rfid chips start. It will be with the criminal population (I. E. Demolition man)

[No.6]

...

If rfid chips start. It will be with the criminal population (I. E. Demolition man)


I think we are all viewed as the "criminal population" by those in power.

[Vash1023]

I think we are all viewed as the "criminal population" by those in power.

i dont disagree, but they will have to justify it and start "small"

so either kids or criminals.

[TAZ]

Something like RFID, GPS...tracking will never be sold as such. RFID is already marketed as safety and convenience. RFID implant can be your wallet so it will be more convenient that credit cards (remember how they came to be so prominent). GPS can keep you safe and let you track your kids. The government tracking will be back door like the NSA stuff you are seeing. Just remember what we see is just the tip of the iceberg.

RFID would also require infrastructure if you want detailed tracking so its not quite as viable as we would like to think.

[Mac5.56]

Something like RFID, GPS...tracking will never be sold as such. RFID is already marketed as safety and convenience. RFID implant can be your wallet so it will be more convenient that credit cards (remember how they came to be so prominent). GPS can keep you safe and let you track your kids. The government tracking will be back door like the NSA stuff you are seeing. Just remember what we see is just the tip of the iceberg.

RFID would also require infrastructure if you want detailed tracking so its not quite as viable as we would like to think.

Yea I agree, but when you say backdoor I say the tracking is already 100% viable and taking place.

The backdoor in was the cell phone. While it is possible to turn it off, or leave it behind, society has been convinced (especially the younger generations) that they need their phones all the time. So we willingly carry around our tracking devices on us every day.

If this society can be so easily convinced it needs a mini computer in it's pocket at all time, how far of a stretch is it to convince them to accept mechanical implants into their bodies?

[THCDDM4]

A company by the name of Applied digital (Also known as "Verichip Corp." and "positive Idea Corp." already has/had an FDA approved RFID chip (The Verichip) for chipping infants upon birth or for adults to be chipped with. It received temporary FDA approval in 2002 and has had full approval since 2004 (Although major health concerns can be associated with these chips/implants, such as increased risk of cancer...).

In 2010 the company had a scandal of sorts arising from increased cancers found in lab animals inplanted with the VeriChip and stopped marketing the product around 2009-2010.

January of 2012- the old company was acquired by new players and they are working to market the chip once again under the business name VeriTeQ.

-Link: http://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/news/20050727/chip-implants-better-care-privacy-scare



It is already being/has been marketed to animal owners (Specifically dogs & cats) as a trakcing method in case they run away.

Also being marketed (On and off) for human children in case they are abducted, runaway, etc.

It will come on slowly and gain speed/public backing- it is already coming on slowly.

First for pets (Already a reality), prison inmates (Tracking of sexual predators and other criminals once released into society- that will be the bait, to keep the children safe), tracking of immigrants/refugees within our borders (Think about how this could be marketed after an event like the Boston bombing; if those pesky kids would have been chipped we could have found them and spent less money to do so, less man man power, had fewer doors kicked in and fewer injuries/deaths) then for our children to keep them safe, then for financial transactions, medical records, criminal records, security clearance, access to swecure buildings/computer systems, access to healhcare (Think ACA), access to Governmt assistance, etc.

Just think about the future implications and the level of control they could exert once these are accepted by even a minority of our populace.

RFID chips are already being utilized in passports- if you've updated your passport since August 2007 you probably have an RFID chip in your passport right now (Go take a hammer to it and destroy the ****er! I did! Or buy an electromagnetically shielded envelope) it can be easily identified as there is a symbol of a circle with two lines on the front cover; see here:
http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppt_card/ppt_card_3926.html
-Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport
-And also here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_passport

Not to mention some "Enhanced" drivers licenses have RFID chips in them. Yep see the link below!
http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,4670,7-127-1627_8669_53333-213055--,00.html



I see people casting this aside due to "Cell phones, computers, GPS etc" being able to track you in a similar way; so why go to the trouble right...

What is being missed is the veracity of this type of system and the ever increasing need of our government to track and control ALL the information they possibly can. Information is power. Having all of your records at the tip of an antenna- financial, medical, criminal, DMV, travel history etc.

Think about it for a minute- LEO's and FEDs are already pushing for any method of control/tracking they can get the public to eat up as "Legal/constitutional" for their "safety"; why would they not advocate for this type of "Complete control" system if given the proper opportunity and strategem to get it accepted?

It will not be long/far off that there is an option to chip your infant at birth. Especially when one considers the azimuth of healthcare due to the ACA.

How better to cut healthcare costs- to have real time tracking of how your patient eats, drinks, imbibes alcohol and other substances, there travel history, etc, etc, etc. You can deny health services to a patient who doesn't "Take care" of themselves in the eyes of the Govt/healthcare oversight committee.

Regardless of the "need" of the government for things such as these- they want them, to control, control, control, control. Just look at where we are right now and ask yourslef if you really believe our government won't push this forward at any chance they can get.

Our world is quickly becomming what all of those science fiction novels warned us of- technologically controlled nightmares.


SO M4C is editing out/censoring posts for potty language now? What the ****?

[Peshawar]

The trick is to make the technology appeal to people's narcissism. Once they can add "features" such as the ability to control a person's appetite, or help them look better in some way, then they'll go for it. Until they can crack that nut, folks won't go for it. But once they do...