View Full Version : Good starting point or dangerous liability?
I have been looking for retro lower marked as an AR-15. I found this correctly/incorrectly demilled AR-15 XM16E1 lower. Is this a good starting point for a retro build or is it a liability and I should leave it alone? Was this a formerly full auto rifle? Can it be made into a legal semi auto rifle in Washington state?
I can't seem to find much information about restoring demilled parts, and most of the people who do are trying to make NFA firearms. I only intend to make a semi auto 20" AR-15. I would appreciate any information that people can give.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=356204855
That lower is not just mostly dead- it's all dead- and not suitable or legal to make a rifle from.
It's not legal to simply buy a demilled full auto lower and make it serviceable again. To do so, you must get the full blessing from the BATF. Some have gone this route to resurrect demilled full auto receivers as semi autos. But some have done so without contacting the BATF to find out if it's ok and have run into serious legal problems. Aside from all that, the AR receiver is made from 7075 aluminum alloy which is not weldable. There are welders who have welded this alloy, but it's difficult to do right.
If not for the fact the seller states this must go to an FFL, this demilled lower would be an excellent aid in replicating a new semi auto lower as the engravings and fences are intact. But the seller is insisting it goes to an FFL so it's useless. What is an FFL going to do? It can't be transferred as a receiver because it's for a machinegun. It can't be transferred as a machinegun because no new machineguns are allowed to be entered into the system. Because of how the seller is handling the sale, it's not worth the hassle unless you can get a letter from the BATF that states this lower is properly demilled and legal to possess. The the trouble is that it's not legally demilled by current standards. Years ago, yes- that's all that was needed. But they've changed the requirement since.
It'd be much cheaper to get a period correct lower from Nodak. Have fun storming the castle!
Looks like a fantastic paperweight.
Thank you Mistwolf. I'm going to stay far away from that thing.
That lower is not just mostly dead- it's all dead-
Have fun storming the castle!
You think it'll work?
Looks like an SP1 lower (large front takedown pin, no mag release button fence) that someone engraved to look like a Gov property M16 lower. Why anyone would demill a semiauto lower is beyond me. I suspect M60 Joe could get this back in working order- if he is still taking M16/AR15 welding work. And then you have to ask if the juice is worth the squeeze...ie how costly will this be?
I'd agree with joshNC it's not a M16a. No auto sear pin hole installed above selector and large screw instead of push pin. Probably a NoDac lower that someone jacked up. If it was the ATF would be making a "house call" for it.
Back before 86 ban you could buy cut up lowers for $20 for rewelds and most of them was GMHydromatics.
HackerF15E
07-31-13, 08:19
the AR receiver is made from 7075 aluminum alloy which is not weldable. There are welders who have welded this alloy, but it's difficult to do right.
So, is it not weldable, or just difficult to do right?
The manual lists 7076 as not weldable. I have run into welders who have told they could weld 7075 or 2024, the two most common non-weldable alloys. What exactly that means, I don't know as I have no experience welding aluminum at all. What it most likely means is they can get the material to fuse but the joint won't be structurally sound. As I don't know if the claim by these welders means they can actually weld this alloy using some kind of vodoo that only a few elite can perform, or if it's some clever "technically, it can be welded, but-" brag, I threw in that disclaimer. I suspect it's the latter. In any case, I see now that what I wrote is confusing. What I do know is that welding 7075 is not acceptable for repair or fabrication in aviation
HackerF15E
07-31-13, 10:30
The manual lists 7076 as not weldable. I have run into welders who have told they could weld 7075 or 2024, the two most common non-weldable alloys. What exactly that means, I don't know as I have no experience welding aluminum at all. What it most likely means is they can get the material to fuse but the joint won't be structurally sound. I do know that welding 7075 is not acceptable for repair or fabrication in aviation
Ahh, okay.
Wasn't trying to nitpick, I just don't have the experience to know which was correct. Thanks for the explanation.
Ok, let me back up a bit. I need to work on my reading comprehension skills. The add states the lower is semi-auto only. My bad. In that case, it can be legally transferred. It would be a good example for duplicating, but unless it's an early receiver made of 6061, it's not a good candidate for re-welding. It also looks like it's distorted just behind the bolt release. I think it was de-milled by being crushed, not bandsawed
Ahh, okay.
Wasn't trying to nitpick, I just don't have the experience to know which was correct. Thanks for the explanation.
It wasn't nitpicking at all, it was a good question- and you're welcome
That seller is a moron. Look at his feedback.
I know basically nothing about the vintage side of ARs, is it actually hard enough to find correct old parts that you would even consider this?
halfmoonclip
10-28-13, 18:45
Well here is a Whiskey Tango Foxtot moment; after being relisted three times, the sumbitch sold for over $500.
It's still not clear to me what it is; why would there be a need to demill a semi-auto lower, why would you want it, especially since welding it is problematic, and why in hell would you pay $500 for it?
I'm simply perplexed.
Moon
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