View Full Version : PPQ M2 or Glock 19?
jameseguerin@hotmail.com
07-27-13, 17:07
I've finally saved enough cash to get a new handgun. Retiring my Browning Hi power for the newer technology and narrowed my choice to the polymer striker based Walter PPQ M2 or a Glock 19. It is just going to be a range gun. I've rented both and am leaning towards the PPQ.
What say you? Walter quality and ergonomics or Glock reliability and availability?
Given the availability of mags as well as the endless variety & availability of sights, holsters, & spare parts, I would without thought or hesitation, go with the G19 in Gen 4 flavor. You'll get a reliable, well made, accurate, easy to maintain gun that will serve you well for tens of thousands of rounds.
With the Walther, mags are more or less unavailable, very few sight options, very few holster options, hard to get spare parts, harder to maintain & who knows how long walther is going to support that model. The PPQ is a great gun, no doubt. But the logistics behind it just don't make sense to me.
Army Chief
07-27-13, 19:23
The Walther is still quite new, and their US distribution presence is still quite recent; that said, for your purposes, I wouldn't hesitate to go with the PPQ. I actually prefer the M1, but the point is valid either way.
Yes, aftermarket support for the Glock is considerably more prevalent, but you can readily get what you need to put -- and keep -- a PPQ in front line service. Raven Concealment supports it with good carry gear, we're working with Dick Heinie to get some better sights in the works and the factory parts train (i.e. mags) is rapidly catching up with demand.
If you like the Glock better, buy it; however, if you prefer the PPQ, then don't worry about the fact that you can buy 10,000 more pieces of useless crap for the G-guns. Essentials are still essentials, and both guns are fully supportable.
AC
Walther PPQ every time IMHO. Makes my Glock 19 feel like a very ordinary pistol with a kind of a clunky trigger. I think the PPQ is superior in every way. Granted, magazines are a challenge (but I have 14 of them), sights are an issue if you have some specialized tastes (I have DP's with fiberoptic as well as tritium front) and I haven't had trouble getting backup parts. Holsters...I have a Raven Concealment, a Blade Tech, and a nice leather DeSantis. What else would I need? And, I'm pretty confident that availability of all of those things will get better.
Larry Vickers is a fairly well-known guy with a reputed penchant for Glocks over the years. Review these threads here where he posted his opinions on the PPQ and his opinion of the PPQ vs the Glock.
https://www.m4carbine.net/search.php?searchid=6191733
Urban_Redneck
07-27-13, 19:32
PPQ
Walther now has US offices (Fort Smith, AR) and is now importing their own products. I can't imagine made this commitment to not support their products and ignore their customers.
The 1911 and Glock will likely remain King and Queen of the aftermarket for years to come. IMHO, you could miss out on some fine pistols if you cling too tightly to that "aftermarket support" buoy.
YMMV
Snake Plissken
07-27-13, 21:35
Only thing a Glock does better is have slightly cheaper mags and a bunch of mostly useless accessories. Only thing you're going to change on any pistol is the sights. If you get a piece of shit gen 4 Glock 9mm, you have to buy:
1. new ejector
2. new extractor
3. sights that are not soft plastic
4. trigger connector
Whereas the PPQ has a perfect trigger for a striker gun, completely ambi controls, ejection/extraction works out of the box without buying shit from Apex, and rather good sights for non-illuminated.
I cannot fathom the reasoning that Glock 19s are better just because the magazines are cheaper.
If you can't afford the $40/mag for a few extra mags, you're probably too damn cheap to shoot enough for having extra mags to be worthwhile. Also, the PPQ is every bit as reliable as a Glock and are plenty easy to find.
Yes, aftermarket support for the Glock is considerably more prevalent, but .....
We shouldn't downplay the utility of the Glock aftermarket....
http://www.elementarms.com/images/D/P1014106.JPG
The Dumb Gun Collector
07-27-13, 22:20
Walther. Good Lord Walther.
Army Chief
07-27-13, 22:24
Walther. Good Lord Walther.
I thought this one was an easy call, too, but did you see the über-swoopy "Glocked and Locked" end plate thingy? Now I'm starting to have a few second-thoughts.
Or not.
AC
The Dumb Gun Collector
07-27-13, 22:32
They are all pretty silly but the one that says "Widow Maker" is incredibly stupid. Anybody who cares about gun rights ought to stink palm the maker of that plate.
Only thing a Glock does better is have slightly cheaper mags and a bunch of mostly useless accessories. Only thing you're going to change on any pistol is the sights. If you get a piece of shit gen 4 Glock 9mm, you have to buy:
1. new ejector
2. new extractor
3. sights that are not soft plastic
4. trigger connector
...no, you don't.
Plus it's kinda odd that you say the only thing you're going to change on 'any pistol' is the sights, and then pretend like putting new sights on a Glock is this terribly bad thing.
We shouldn't downplay the utility of the Glock aftermarket....
http://www.elementarms.com/images/D/P1014106.JPG
Cool stuff but not appropriate for a defensive weapon.
;)
theblackknight
07-27-13, 23:08
. If you get a piece of shit gen 4 Glock 9mm
Not counting fairy tail land(internet), all my contacts (who are shooters) with Gen4's don't have the gen4 problems, nor do any of the 6 rental Gen4's at a shop I work weekends at. These gun's easily get 850-1000 rounds thru them each weekend. These Glocks run like Glocks.
I have a GEN 3 G19 that has been flawless. I like it so much that I want another one just to have as a spare.
Pfft. Get an XDm
Sorry couldn't resist. PPQ M2 all the way.
davebee456
07-28-13, 00:34
a used glock 19 from 2003 to 2009 is always a good bet
I have a GEN 3 G19 that has been flawless. I like it so much that I want another one just to have as a spare.
Here's a video of my Gen3 Glock 19 in action:
http://SSEquine.net/glockbtf.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzmop7PlUxQ)
decodeddiesel
07-28-13, 02:44
On topic: Walther all the way. The trigger is nothing sort of amazing.
We shouldn't downplay the utility of the Glock aftermarket....
Reminds me of the beenie baby/elk jerky/nazi shit tables around the perimeter of the local ND/AD show. Or a tacky leather shop in your average tourist trap town.
Sorry, went to a NASCAR event earlier tonight and am feeling rather cynical.
Although a Gen 2 G23 with my recently bestowed moniker of "covert elite operator" is tempting.
I've finally saved enough cash to get a new handgun. Retiring my Browning Hi power for the newer technology and narrowed my choice to the polymer striker based Walter PPQ M2 or a Glock 19. It is just going to be a range gun. I've rented both and am leaning towards the PPQ.
What say you? Walter quality and ergonomics or Glock reliability and availability?
If it's "just going to be a range gun" it really doesn't matter what you buy. Even so, either pistol will serve you well. I bought a PPQ because I liked it best and as it turns out, it's a naturally accurate in my hands. I am frustrated that it's difficult for me to obtain extra mags but I prefer that to having a pistol with a pile of mags that I don't like shooting. I'm not worried that there is little aftermarket support because there is nothing I want to change except to get sturdier sights and maybe a shorter slide release lever. Holsters are available one can be special ordered affordably.
Here's a little Walther propaganda to help you make up your mind
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sJaJmNPJpf8
AC, what kind of sights are you working on getting made for the PPQ? Myself, I'd like a set of metallic sights cut to the same size, height and shape as those supplied by the factory and black with no dots or tritium
Get a Real gun. Beretta px4
go away
Having shot the PPQ more than once, i prefer the G19.
Army Chief
07-28-13, 08:55
Get a Real gun. Beretta px4
Against my better judgment, I am going to actually ask: are you intending this be interpreted as a serious comment, or is this intended to be silly?
I've got to admit, I struggle mightily to find the underwriting logic in many of your recent posts. Just want to make sure I understand what you are communicating here.
AC
Army Chief
07-28-13, 08:58
AC, what kind of sights are you working on getting made for the PPQ?
We're just a bit stalled-out at the moment, but I'm working with Dick Heinie to see about getting his Straight-8s introduced for the gun.
AC
Against my better judgment, I am going to actually ask: are you intending this be interpreted as a serious comment, or is this intended to be silly?
I've got to admit, I struggle mightily to find the underwriting logic in many of your recent posts. Just want to make sure I understand what you are communicating here.
AC
In one of his recently deleted threads he claimed 1/4" groups at ten yards with a PX4. I find that interesting because that grouping is actually smaller than a single 9mm bullet in diameter.
Snake Plissken
07-28-13, 09:13
...no, you don't.
Plus it's kinda odd that you say the only thing you're going to change on 'any pistol' is the sights, and then pretend like putting new sights on a Glock is this terribly bad thing.
Because the stock sights on Glocks are useless and you're likely to rip them off the first time you rack the slide on your belt. Whereas the PPQs are plenty good stock.
I had a G4 G19. Sent it back to Glock and they still couldn't keep it from throwing brass at my eyes. Bought a PPQ and it ejects like it should, has a far better trigger, ambi controls including superior paddle mag release (moot on m2), great stock sights, better ergonomics, doesn't look like a brick painted black.
PatrioticDisorder
07-28-13, 09:16
We shouldn't downplay the utility of the Glock aftermarket....
http://www.elementarms.com/images/D/P1014106.JPG
Anybody stupid enough to put the widowmaker plate on their carry Glock is asking for trouble. The rest of them I can't see being make or brea in the eyes of a juror, but I could be wrong (some may even help).
Because the stock sights on Glocks are useless and you're likely to rip them off the first time you rack the slide on your belt. Whereas the PPQs are plenty good stock.
I don't know...although I haven't seen reports of the stock PPQ polymer sights breaking, they are indeed polymer and I'm not convinced that they're any more robust than the stock polymer sights on the Glocks. The DP "Charger" rear sight that I put on my PPQ works well for that, however.
http://www.dawsonprecision.com/images/mediums/018-222.jpg
Army Chief
07-28-13, 09:32
Anybody stupid enough to put the widowmaker plate on their carry Glock is asking for trouble. The rest of them I can't see being make or break in the eyes of a juror, but I could be wrong (some may even help).
I'm admittedly a bit less-inclined to look charitably at this kind of thing. The only one that I would even consider is the US flag, and even that would be preceded by asking myself "what is the point of this again?"
Agree that the "Widow Maker" plate, in particular, just screams "imbecile." The guy programming the laser for that particular masterpiece should have been punched in the throat for even going there. And honestly ... if you're that stupid, why not just save the money and scrawl it on the slide with a paint pen yourself? You could add some cool SS runes and everything.
AC
In one of his recently deleted threads he claimed 1/4" groups at ten yards with a PX4. I find that interesting because that grouping is actually smaller than a single 9mm bullet in diameter.
Yep...
Moral of the story, do not buy a PX4.
Get a Glock.
If it is only a range gun, think full size...Glock 17, 34, Sig P226, etc...
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2
Because the stock sights on Glocks are useless and you're likely to rip them off the first time you rack the slide on your belt. Whereas the PPQs are plenty good stock.
I had a G4 G19. Sent it back to Glock and they still couldn't keep it from throwing brass at my eyes. Bought a PPQ and it ejects like it should, has a far better trigger, ambi controls including superior paddle mag release (moot on m2), great stock sights, better ergonomics, doesn't look like a brick painted black.
Are the stock PPQ sights night sights? Or sights you would otherwise keep installed on a defensive pistol? (obviously the racking on your belt would be irrelevant for a range only pistol)
Some of what you listed above is personal preference, and if it works (and looks) better for you, it works (and looks) better for you.
The erratic ejection and brass to face thing is quite silly in that I can't believe Glock let it happen and didn't wipe it out onc it was known to be a problem. They really dropped the ball on that one.
I just picked up a new Gen4 G26 a couple weeks ago. Only 170 rounds (of Ranger) through it and it's working perfect...if it develops EE/BTF (or shows it with weaker FMJ ammo) I'm gonna be pissed. If not...if it continues to act as it has and should...for me...it is absolutely perfect.
But then Walter doesn't make anything to directly compete with the sub compact Glocks that I know of...
Army Chief
07-28-13, 12:41
But then Walter doesn't make anything to directly compete with the sub compact Glocks that I know of...
Not really. They will point you to the PPS, which is a fine pistol, but not really the same gun. Closest you'll get is a P99c, which is also not quite the same gun.
AC
I want to change except to get sturdier sights and maybe a shorter slide release lever. Holsters are available one can be special ordered affordably.
See and for me I think the slide release lever is perfect. Guess it's a case of YMMV
But then Walter doesn't make anything to directly compete with the sub compact Glocks that I know of...
AC is right. To go along with that, the kool-aid drinkers don't understand why, when they say the PPS is the PPQ SC, guys like me keep telling them that it isn't. There are just too many differences. However I know that Mark Thomas at Walther (marketing) has been listening to the board and our comments. He has dropped hints that new products are in the pipeline. I have no idea what that means. However I have images in my mind that Walther is about to get serious and take notes from Glock and S&W in having one line, multiple calibers, multiple sizes.
See and for me I think the slide release lever is perfect. Guess it's a case of YMMV
At first. I thought "Now this is nice" because it's easy to manipulate. But occasionally, if I get careless, the slide fails to lock back on the last shot because my thumb pushes it down. I haven't made up my mind if I just need to train my thumb better or if cutting the slide release a bit shorter is the better answer
AC is right. To go along with that, the kool-aid drinkers don't understand why, when they say the PPS is the PPQ SC, guys like me keep telling them that it isn't. There are just too many differences. However I know that Mark Thomas at Walther (marketing) has been listening to the board and our comments. He has dropped hints that new products are in the pipeline. I have no idea what that means. However I have images in my mind that Walther is about to get serious and take notes from Glock and S&W in having one line, multiple calibers, multiple sizes.
I agree with your comments about the PPS. It's completely different from the PPQ, something that was easy to see the first time I held the smaller pistol in my hand and dry fired it. I'd like to see a single stack compact based directly on the PPQ design
Anybody stupid enough to put the widowmaker plate on their carry Glock is asking for trouble. The rest of them I can't see being make or break in the eyes of a juror, but I could be wrong (some may even help).
I can't wait to get a Glock so I can get the elite "Security Guard" plate :jester:
See and for me I think the slide release lever is perfect. Guess it's a case of YMMV
AC is right. To go along with that, the kool-aid drinkers don't understand why, when they say the PPS is the PPQ SC, guys like me keep telling them that it isn't. There are just too many differences. However I know that Mark Thomas at Walther (marketing) has been listening to the board and our comments. He has dropped hints that new products are in the pipeline. I have no idea what that means. However I have images in my mind that Walther is about to get serious and take notes from Glock and S&W in having one line, multiple calibers, multiple sizes.
I think that's really the way to go.
decodeddiesel
07-28-13, 13:24
However I have images in my mind that Walther is about to get serious and take notes from Glock and S&W in having one line, multiple calibers, multiple sizes.
That would be a fantastic move for Walther. It would bring them out of the "niche" market they are kind of in and move them into position to become a real player in the defensive pistol market, as well as police. A G26 sized PPQ or a PPQ in .45ACP would be strong sellers I would bet, especially at the price point of the PPQ (less than HK).
As long as that line is based on the PPQ, retains the trigger guard mag release and does not have a manual safety
Army Chief
07-28-13, 13:31
Good points, because I think we are not so far removed from the mark when we observe that these Walthers are really delivering HK-level quality and innovation at a much more attractive price point. In terms of quality and refinement, I have a hard time comparing them directly to Glocks, notwithstanding the fact that we all recognize and respect what the G-guns bring to the table. You're getting near-parity on pricing, perhaps, but the Walther is really a different class of gun.
AC
As long as that line is based on the PPQ, retains the trigger guard mag release and does not have a manual safety
Good point.
Manual safety = I won't buy it.
I've finally saved enough cash to get a new handgun. Retiring my Browning Hi power for the newer technology and narrowed my choice to the polymer striker based Walter PPQ M2 or a Glock 19. It is just going to be a range gun. I've rented both and am leaning towards the PPQ.
What say you? Walter quality and ergonomics or Glock reliability and availability?
You already answered your own ? :)
* If it fits you then its time to go separate yourself with some $$$ ;)
fwiw, "not much" = my answer: Glock [For me changing platforms is the same as driving backwards on the fwy]
Why???: I'm already married, aka -$$$, to the ergo, bucket of kydex, mags, parts, spare parts . . . . etc. But, I wouldn't want it any other way.
* Now that I think about it, not much remains Glock OE in the end ;) . . . . sad, but true.
For me:
- 9x19; Plastic Double Stack: Glock
- 45ACP; Metal Single Stack: 1911
Realized: I like vanilla ice cream A LOT - If it shoots True, Crisp Sights, Smooth/Clean Trigger = :)
I have both a PPQ and a PPS. They aren't even remotely the same gun. In fact, there is virtually no functional point of commonality except for the mag release and even then only if you have a PPQ.
On the Walther boards, if you mention that Walther should have introduced a sub compact version before the 5 inch long-slide version, the common refrain is that they already do...the P99c. Personally, I don't see it that way. I think that that line of thinking as well as their decision that a range gun makes more marketing sense than a carry gun in the US is just another example of their inability to accurately read the US firearms market. Jeez...the polymer pistol road map is already there, drawn by US firearms marketing experts - Glock and S&W.
Army Chief
07-28-13, 14:12
The 5" version was (and is) silly, and reflective of virtually no understanding of the American market. I'm left to wonder if it simply wasn't an easy rollout for them because of demand in the domestic (German) market, where you tend to see more toward competition-oriented models.
Although I see the M2 getting a positive response, I'm not even sure that it wasn't a premature diversion of resources as well, given the reception the M1 was given here almost as soon as it was announced. If you already have strong-demand for an existing product, why go about trying to introduce New Coke during the second year of importation?
Standard PPQ (4") and a true PPQ compact in 9mm. Then in .40. If demand remains high, perhaps something in .45 (maybe). It's not really that difficult.
AC
I have a P99, and I'm a huge fan of it. Now y'all have got me Jones'n for a PPQ.
FWIW, if you are wise enough to get a first gen PPQ, the P99 magazines work perfectly in it. If you get the goofy M2, you're stuck hunting for M2 mags (or milling a mag catch in P99 mags).
I have a few Glocks, and some proper metal guns, but I really like the Walther. If you're in the mood for something different, give one a spin.
FWIW, if you are wise enough to get a first gen PPQ, the P99 magazines work perfectly in it.
My understanding is that newer P99 mags work and older ones do not (although the older ones can be modified to work). There is also a Magnum Research mag that is PPQ gen 1 compatible (actual the same mag, made in the same factory aside from minor cosmetic differences if I understand correctly).
-john
At first. I thought "Now this is nice" because it's easy to manipulate. But occasionally, if I get careless, the slide fails to lock back on the last shot because my thumb pushes it down. I haven't made up my mind if I just need to train my thumb better or if cutting the slide release a bit shorter is the better answer
Again YMMV, but all I did was train my self to place the top edge of my dominant thumb at the bottom of the peak of the slide release. For me it was an easy transition.
Although I see the M2 getting a positive response, I'm not even sure that it wasn't a premature diversion of resources as well, given the reception the M1 was given here almost as soon as it was announced. If you already have strong-demand for an existing product, why go about trying to introduce New Coke during the second year of importation?
Two words: "Paddle Release". You and I and others know that the paddle release wasn't an impediment. However just about every review out there was effusive in its praise of the M1, however they all ended in a "but" and that "but" was about the release. So Walther responded to the mass market. It wanted a button, they got a button. I think the sales numbers for the M2 are going to show it to be a stronger seller than the M1. Remember, a person is smart, people are stupid.
Again YMMV, but all I did was train my self to place the top edge of my dominant thumb at the bottom of the peak of the slide release. For me it was an easy transition.
I think you're right that it's more about training than gear. The problem rarely happened even when I first started shooting the PPQ and pops up less and less as I shoot.
(Edited the above because sometimes I'm a cross-eyed jackass who needs to comprehend what he read before responding)
I continue to shoot my PPQ as it is and find the experience rather enjoyable- therapeutic even. Really, my point is that I find I have little want or desire for a bunch of aftermarket doodads beyond holsters and sights. I can't think of anything else I'd change. It doesn't need a trigger upgrade, barrel is fine, grip fits my hand, springs are working, mags drop free, I'm not getting clobbered with ejected brass, function is reliable, accuracy is good and I'm satisfied
I don't think everybody needs or wants a shorter slide release on the PPQ,
I certainly don't want a shorter release.
-john
I have 4 PPQs (granted they are all the "M1")...it is my go to platform so much that I have sold every other handgun except my wife's .380, my .22s and my PPS
I actually really like the PPS for pocket carry and think it is a fine gun, but it is nothing like the PPQ
If walther introduced a PPQc with the M1 mag release I would be on it like stink on shit
If walther introduced a PPQc with the M1 mag release I would be on it like stink on shit
+1
If you get desperate, you can always do a grip chop like I did: http://www.flickr.com/photos/78840420@N05/sets/72157629792278600/
-john
Although I see the M2 getting a positive response, I'm not even sure that it wasn't a premature diversion of resources as well, given the reception the M1 was given here almost as soon as it was announced. If you already have strong-demand for an existing product, why go about trying to introduce New Coke during the second year of importation?
Exactly!
I love my custom modified new G23!
I really love my new straight out of the box PPQ!
I think Walther made a good move by re-introducing the PPQ-M1. For those heavily invested in the P99, PPS, PPQ it makes sense. The M2 will appeal to the folks wanting to move to Walther quality without adapting to a new manual of arms. Having owned HK, SIG, and Walther defensive pistols IMHO the Walther quality is on the same level, but at a better price point.
decodeddiesel
07-28-13, 22:03
I am a big HK/Walther paddle release fan. I find activating the magazine release with my trigger finger to be the fastest most comfortable method for my shooting style. I am looking forward to picking up a PPQ M1.
montanadave
07-28-13, 22:31
I am a big HK/Walther paddle release fan. I find activating the magazine release with my trigger finger to be the fastest most comfortable method for my shooting style. I am looking forward to picking up a PPQ M1.
My only concern is the durability of the current Walther paddle release. I'm hoping when the accessory market catches up, someone will introduce a replacement mag release constructed of a more indestructable material like, say, tungsten.
:lol:
.46caliber
07-28-13, 23:39
My only concern is the durability of the current Walther paddle release. I'm hoping when the accessory market catches up, someone will introduce a replacement mag release constructed of a more indestructable material like, say, tungsten.
:lol:
I laughed at the tungsten part.
Any of you PPQ guys have one in 40? I've been considering grabbing one and go back and forth on the caliber.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
decodeddiesel
07-28-13, 23:54
My only concern is the durability of the current Walther paddle release. I'm hoping when the accessory market catches up, someone will introduce a replacement mag release constructed of a more indestructable material like, say, tungsten.
:lol:
Yeah, I heard on TOS all of the covert elite operators love tungsten mag releases.
Snake Plissken
07-29-13, 10:37
My only concern is the durability of the current Walther paddle release. I'm hoping when the accessory market catches up, someone will introduce a replacement mag release constructed of a more indestructable material like, say, tungsten.
:lol:
:confused:
montanadave
07-29-13, 10:44
:confused:
A weak attempt at humor on my part in referencing a short-lived thread in another sub-forum: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=135547
A weak attempt at humor on my part in referencing a short-lived thread in another sub-forum: http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=135547
I got your joke Dave & found it very amusing. ;)
Sent via Tapatalk
Army Chief
07-29-13, 11:02
The OP in that particular (cited) thread is quite new to the site, full of rather far-reaching questions and has yet to really grasp our site culture, so this is merely one example among many. The old adage about reading more and posting less would be instructive in this case, but in any event, I would prefer that this not branch off into too much ridicule over Tungstengate.
Clever reference. Admittedly humorous. Aptly-timed. Well-played.
Time to move on, bitte.
AC
ScatmanCrothers
07-29-13, 11:47
I think Walther made a good move by re-introducing the PPQ-M1. For those heavily invested in the P99, PPS, PPQ it makes sense. The M2 will appeal to the folks wanting to move to Walther quality without adapting to a new manual of arms. Having owned HK, SIG, and Walther defensive pistols IMHO the Walther quality is on the same level, but at a better price point.
My thoughts exactly. The M1 is always going to be king amongst paddle connoiseurs but for shooters like myself with very little time on an HK/Walther style the M2 was a welcomed edition. Seamless transition after some trigger time. The difference in magazines and inability to use previous and other models blows, there's no denying that. So does their extended efforts in producing two different models and accompanying mags when they could be branching out. They both sell like wildfire though so I can't necessarily say it was a mistake on their part. Like others I'm hoping for different sizes/calibers to come.
M2 mags are here and easy to get your hands on with a little digging, and M1 owners get the inherent advantage of multiple options. The hostility towards the M2 is interesting to say the least. Everyone should be welcoming the new edition in the end because it adds greater need for better sights from more manufacturers with the addition of those that jumped on board strictly because of the button release that otherwise wouldn't have. The same can be said for future accessories as well. Purists gonna pure I guess.
theblackknight
07-29-13, 12:01
I dont trust people who dont use the button. Requires too much grip change during a reload. But I have big hands. Sorry guys.
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/W7Obn3d4SqE/hqdefault.jpg
beschatten
07-29-13, 12:06
I would get the Walther. My Gen4 19 and 17 leaves me wanting more out of a polymer, wonder 9. There's nothing wrong with Glocks, but it doesn't have a 'wow factor' like several other handgun options on the market.The sights and trigger can always be worked on, but money can't buy Walther's ergonomics.
I had initial gripes with the M2 because I am a left-handed shooter, and it really took the versatility out of it. It's nearly impossible to drop the mag button with the trigger finger because of how the Walther molds to your hand, and I refuse to swap to the other side because I am so used to using my trigger finger. With that said, I'll hang on to my panties and wait for the M1 to resurface before purchasing one. If I get a raise, maybe I'll get a P30 and drop $400 for Bruce Grey's reset reduction job.
beschatten
07-29-13, 12:09
I dont trust people who dont use the button. Requires too much grip change during a reload. But I have big hands. Sorry guys.
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/W7Obn3d4SqE/hqdefault.jpg
I feel your pain. I considered my gigantic hands a curse until I held a Walther. I could reach the paddle with ease with my trigger finger. No grip change required. Just a simple side sweep with the trigger finger and it's done. YMMV...
Hmmmm, I've got an M1 and at best average sized hands, no problem at all dropping the mag with my trigger finger. Real excited about the possibility of Heinie's for PPQ! Hope it happens soon!
I use my middle finger for mag release on both PPQ and PPS. Works fine for me.
One of the things I love about my PPQ's paddle release is that I finally don't have to alter my grip to drop the magazine. That's not the case with my M&P's. I guess I'd say I have average sized hands as I'm between a medium and a large in most gloves.
Hmmmm, I've got an M1 and at best average sized hands, no problem at all dropping the mag with my trigger finger.
This on both counts. Normal fingers, trigger finger works for me.
-john
theblackknight
07-29-13, 14:42
I feel your pain. I considered my gigantic hands a curse until I held a Walther. I could reach the paddle with ease with my trigger finger. No grip change required. Just a simple side sweep with the trigger finger and it's done. YMMV...
You got me backwards. On a paddle gun like a p30, My grip seems too high to get to the paddle with ease and my fingers are long, where as a Gen4 is a breeze to hit the button,same with the M2 version.
Edit: I also seem to remember people claiming your trigger finger should really only do one thing. This was in relation to the BAD lever, and would seem to apply here also, but I thought it was bullshit then and still do.
Before I bought my PPQ, I was concerned about my trigger finger operating a lever so near the trigger. However, I never had a problem with that same trigger finger operating the mag release of an AR. The motion of the two are very much the same to me
You got me backwards. On a paddle gun like a p30, My grip seems too high to get to the paddle with ease and my fingers are long, where as a Gen4 is a breeze to hit the button,same with the M2 version.
Edit: I also seem to remember people claiming your trigger finger should really only do one thing. This was in relation to the BAD lever, and would seem to apply here also, but I thought it was bullshit then and still do.
Do you use your thumb to activate paddle style release? If yes, then I understand your problems.
I prefer to use middle finger on mag release over using trigger finger. It requires even less grip shift (if any) and makes trigger finger rest happily along the slide, so it is little safer way in my book. I also prefer to use middle finger (or trigger finger if mag catch spring is on heavy side) on button release, but it is just me. I have rather long fingers.
But mostly it is training issue. If someone trained with button release for long time, it is hard to go back to lower level of proficiency and then go trough learning curve for paddle release. Even if, ultimately paddle release can be better thing, most of people do not want to invest time and effort into learning it. My case is that I do not care for learning to use thumb on button release, even if I have pistols that allow me to do so (yes, I'm left handed).
One of the things I love about my PPQ's paddle release is that I finally don't have to alter my grip to drop the magazine. That's not the case with my M&P's. I guess I'd say I have average sized hands as I'm between a medium and a large in most gloves.
I've got smallish hands and let me tell you, the button release on the M2 is another thing I love about it. Walther put it in the exact right place for me.
beschatten
07-30-13, 07:38
You got me backwards. On a paddle gun like a p30, My grip seems too high to get to the paddle with ease and my fingers are long, where as a Gen4 is a breeze to hit the button,same with the M2 version.
Edit: I also seem to remember people claiming your trigger finger should really only do one thing. This was in relation to the BAD lever, and would seem to apply here also, but I thought it was bullshit then and still do.
I don't aim to curl the finger and use the tip to hit the release. Just a simple sweep downwards and the side of my finger hits it. If I try doing the former it makes things a bit awkward.
As a side note: I'm a lefty and am kind of used to using the trigger finger as a magazine release. I am reluctant to switch.
theblackknight
07-30-13, 12:44
I've got smallish hands and let me tell you, the button release on the M2 is another thing I love about it. Walther put it in the exact right place for me.
My thumb extends a good 3/4in past the button, so I knew it would be great for smaller hands and not breaking grip. The bump guard is ingenious and the button spring is a great pressure.
Being an owner of a couple high round M1s and having just sold or still selling them in favor of M2s, I think I can weigh in here.
From my research, highspeed video, stills, examination, shooting time (10k on PPQs combined over the past 1.5 years), and I'm currently working with Walther to write up some in-depth stuff on the PPQ... I've found... And I'll just state this is all TO ME, you are free to disagree...
I can not use my trigger finger to drop the mag
Without fail - using my middle finger to release the mag allowed far too weak of a grip on the gun. I would basically be holding by just between my palm, pinky and ring fingers. I shoot high thumbs so they weren't helping, trigger finger up on the slide, and middle finger depressing the mag release. Compare this to a button where you have a solid first around the gun at all times
IF I attempted to use my trigger finger I found I would not get sufficient depression on the mag release
Using my middle finger almost always required adjusting my grip after the mag was seated. This was not something I could see at home, had to use highspeed on the range.
The M2 button is AWESOME
I've found it's easier for me to index the mag into the gun when I have a fist around the grip vs 2 small finger palm balance grasp move.
My Fire 1-Slide Lock Reload-Fire 1 times dropped by about 30-40% using the M2. I do not consider this an accurate indication of ANYTHING aside from I was not shifting my grip anymore.
Owning M1 and Glock guns, I have in many instances tried to button the PPQ M1 or paddle mag the Glock. I've found that now with the M2 I haven't once tried to paddle the M2, I think for me it's just way more natural going back to a button, and remember I have 10k on paddles (PPQs, P99, P99c, PPS)!
For illustration of what my reload looked like with the M1 when shooting and not just dry firing:
http://s22.postimg.org/kfgx9owk1/Walther.jpg
I don't care which one you use. The above info relates to me and me alone. Loving my new M2s. Now if I could only get a damn 5" in!!!
It is hilarious to me that anyone would be hostile about M1 v M2. It's the same damn gun, that said, I loved the M1 until I used the M2, now I could never go back.
Oh, one other thing about the mag release...
For awhile I thought it was short fingers that would use the paddle release with the trigger finger. Then I saw someone with monster hands using it with trigger.
It's not finger length or hand size specifically. It's whether or not your finger is comfortable doing it. This could be joint flexibility, finger join length, etc etc. For me, it just didn't feel good to bend my finger that way, if my fingers were built the same except shorter it would be fine as the angles would change, same for longer, but someone with different joints and my length could get by with no issue.
If you use trigger finger I think it's a great system. If you can't well, do whatever you please, but it wasn't working for me.
Another note: While I have no time on them besides 100 or so rounds at any single time , I think the HK guns have a slightly superior system with the paddles that can be accessed with thumbs. They have the ambi-feature, it's hard to accidentally depress them, and you don't have to sacrifice grip at any point. Same thing applies though, if you use your middle finger to run an HK release, I'd suggest evaluating that carefully. If Walther didn't move to the M2, I'd currently be looking at prototyping a new Walther M1 paddle that stuck out enough to use thumbs on.
...It is hilarious to me that anyone would be hostile about M1 v M2...
It's not that Walther introduced the M2. It's that they stopped delivering the M1.
In my case, after the first time I used the the lever release with the trigger finger, I find I keep trying to do the same with my 1911- and I've been shooting 1911s for most of my life!
..It's whether or not your finger is comfortable doing it...
Yes. My wife finds it hard to use the release lever on her P22 as well
Owning M1 and Glock guns, I have in many instances tried to button the PPQ M1 or paddle mag the Glock. I've found that now with the M2 I haven't once tried to paddle the M2, I think for me it's just way more natural going back to a button, and remember I have 10k on paddles (PPQs, P99, P99c, PPS)!
I also found it a bit disorienting transitioning between paddle and button. Especially when shooting back-to-back. My solution was the same as yours (basically), I sold all my button guns.
It's not that Walther introduced the M2. It's that they stopped delivering the M1.
Yup.
-john
SmokinSigs357
08-01-13, 13:39
Good points, because I think we are not so far removed from the mark when we observe that these Walthers are really delivering HK-level quality and innovation at a much more attractive price point. In terms of quality and refinement, I have a hard time comparing them directly to Glocks, notwithstanding the fact that we all recognize and respect what the G-guns bring to the table. You're getting near-parity on pricing, perhaps, but the Walther is really a different class of gun.
AC
I couldn't agree with you more. I love my PPQ so much, that I just bought a PPS so I have something a little more comfortable to carry in the summer.
With that being said, I have 4 HKs that I love...however, with their new extreme financial woes just being announced (over 160 million dollars in debt!!!) is it no secret that they could have avoided this financial turmoil by coming out with a competitive gun for the American market (i.e. striker fired in the PPQ, Glock, M&P price range)?
But back on topic, as a former Glock guy, I cannot sing the praises loud enough for the PPQ.
I was in your position a while back and end up choosing Glock 19 due to its reliability, easy to upgrade, easy to maintain, tons of aftermarket parts, etc, etc...
I kept my Walther PPK/S though.
Good luck!
decodeddiesel
08-01-13, 18:48
I couldn't agree with you more. I love my PPQ so much, that I just bought a PPS so I have something a little more comfortable to carry in the summer.
With that being said, I have 4 HKs that I love...however, with their new extreme financial woes just being announced (over 160 million dollars in debt!!!) is it no secret that they could have avoided this financial turmoil by coming out with a competitive gun for the American market (i.e. striker fired in the PPQ, Glock, M&P price range)?
But back on topic, as a former Glock guy, I cannot sing the praises loud enough for the PPQ.
Even at the current pricing point, a striker fired P30 would be a good seller I would think.
jameseguerin@hotmail.com
08-04-13, 16:42
Thanks all. Picked up my new Walther PPQ 9mm M2 today.:)
Now I join the hunt for more mags.
Manufacturer spelling corrected..:p
Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated. Welcome to the collective. Welcome to the aneurysm inducing search for magazines. Other than that enjoy and shoot the snot out of it.
Even at the current pricing point, a striker fired P30 would be a good seller I would think.
I would pick up 3 or 4 of them as soon as they came out :)
Thanks all. Picked up my new Walter PPQ 9mm M2 today.:)
Now I join the hunt for more mags.
Congratulations on your new pistol. Now check the box for the proper spelling of the manufacturer. ;)
I was debating whether to get a G19 or PPQ M2 as my "compact" pistol and the PPQ won after dry firing the PPQ's trigger. Along with everyone else that owns a PPQ, I'm now on a quest to hunt down magazines.
Just do what I do, keep hammering them on Twitter ( @waltherfirearms)
PPQ M2 mags are n at Midway right now. Strike while you can
Just saw that but I'm in CA:( waiting for 10 rounders.
jameseguerin@hotmail.com
08-07-13, 11:25
Was able to snag 2 17-rounders for the M2 but they were already sold out of the 15's.
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