View Full Version : New To Family Marlin 45-70
So my father picked up a 45-70 with a Leopold 2-7 mounted on it. I haven't shot it yet but he loves it.
I think it was purchased more as a defensive rifle (he lives in CT so no more evil black rifles), and I have no issue with using a lever in a defensive roll, they may not be an automatic, but a competent shooter can do a lot with a pistol and a lever gun. I think many of us are in agreement on this subject.
Anyway I am trying to convince him to consider replacing the Leopold with an Aimpoint if he intends to use it defensively and at close range.
What are your thoughts? Are there other reflex optics that may be better for this caliber? Is the caliber to punishing for an electronic optic?
I know very little about this cartridge other then the "holy sh@t I don't want to be on the receiving end" moment I had when I saw both the gun and the cartridges.
Anyway what are your thoughts?
Army Chief
07-27-13, 22:57
I'd ask Mr. Smith, as he not only builds these beasts, but I've seen him with an RMR on one of his own. I just stayed with a Leupold Scout scope, because it offers somewhat greater flexibility, and I honestly can't see myself firing the thing enough to warrant a more optimized approach. If I ever had to take a true defensive shot with the .45-70, I think I'd have to start the engagement with the old parental spanking adage that we all remember so well: "this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you." ;)
AC
I'd ask Mr. Smith, as he not only builds these beasts, but I've seen him with an RMR on one of his own. I just stayed with a Leupold Scout scope, because it offers somewhat greater flexibility, and I honestly can't see myself firing the thing enough to warrant a more optimized approach. If I ever had to take a true defensive shot with the .45-70, I think I'd have to start the engagement with the old parental spanking adage that we all remember so well: "this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you." ;)
AC
Well said AC, well said... I always knew the 45-70 was big but I didn't realize how big until I actually held it in my hand.
This rifle is a beauty, my dad's getting 2 MOA out of it on a bench, which I am reluctant to mess with I just personally shoot so well with a reflex optic and I personally don't have any magnified optics on any of my defensive firearms.
Maybe Mr. Smith will roll in here with his thoughts.
Glad to hear your feeling a tad better AC, I think of you often!
It is the ability to run a light and an optic at night that makes me use an Aimpoint H1.
Plus, the overall size is great with the H1. if you use it with an offset mount, you can run a light without a lot of trouble.
It's not about how far you can shoot the 45/70 -- it's about how far you can shoot to protect you & yours.
I have guns set up for both long and short range, but the 45/70 lever gun shines at short range with heavy bullets 325 to 405. That is a lot of love to put in one place on a target.
I hope I helped you.
Army Chief
07-28-13, 09:13
Something of an aside here, but I've got two grown sons, and between the three of us, we have two .45-70s and a .30-30 -- all built by Joe/Mr. Smith. I had never seen a serious "prepped" lever gun in my life until I first visited his shop facility in Louisville, and the rest is pretty much history. Great guns.
I am still on the hunt for the right offset light mount, however. The one limiting factor when you rail these guns is that you need to give some thought to what you mount, and how it is mounted. Many conventional light mounts will block the sight line to the irons, and if you do go with a Scout scope, you need to find a light fixture with a very low profile to get everything to play well together. I'm guessing a GearSector mount or something along those lines would be ideal, but I just haven't walked that particular dog all of the way home yet. Will sort it all out soon.
Interestingly, I keep the .45-70 in my line of sight (usually in the family room) more than any other gun I own, just because it is such an interesting and well-sorted-out piece. Joe did a great job building this particular rifle for me from a 70s-vintage base gun (pre-crossbolt safety). I told him that I wanted a big bore lever gun, but in a near-SBR package, and he delivered one of those rare rifles that makes you just sit and giggle to yourself like an idiot whenever you look at it.
Then again, my EDC is a 5" custom 1911 that he also built for me (from an STI, no less), so I admit to an inherent bias. He also keeps some pretty good bourbon in the office, but I digress ...
AC
montanadave
07-28-13, 10:03
AC, you wouldn't have a pic of that lever gun handy, would ya?
Army Chief
07-28-13, 11:05
AC, you wouldn't have a pic of that lever gun handy, would ya?
Not at the moment, but I'll try to capture something if the skies ever break over here today.
It looks very much like the other levers Joe has showcased on www.superiorfirearmsllc.com, but with about two inches removed from each end. Think "youth-sized shoulder howitzer," and you're in the ball park.
AC
I think that the recoil is stout, but the 45-70 would not be a bad round for self defense if you were attacked by a bear, elephant or rhino. We were testing duty ammunition one day and had a few gelatin blocks left over after we finished. We had been setting the gelatin blocks on top of a sturdy table for testing. I had a Remington Rolling Block 45-70 rifle with me and we shot some Remington 300g factory hunting loads into gelatin.
The gelatin blocks jumped 4 feet into the air and landed 6 feet to the right of the table when shot with the 300g soft point. The projectiles penetrated all of the way through 3 feet of gelatin and left a huge cavity inside. The shock wave broke wood off the bottom of the table, which was constructed out of 2"x6" treated lumber. There was a lot of laughing after we saw the damage done to the table.
45-70 might be expensive, but I don't think follow up shots would be necessary.
Yea I spent some time on YouTube last night watching ballistic gel shots with this round and my jaw dropped.
This is a pic from some time back.
.http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Lever%20Love/100_3560.jpg (http://s807.photobucket.com/user/SuperiorFirearms/media/Lever%20Love/100_3560.jpg.html)
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Lever%20Love/100_3571.jpg (http://s807.photobucket.com/user/SuperiorFirearms/media/Lever%20Love/100_3571.jpg.html)
Army Chief
07-30-13, 17:32
Joe's photos are infinitely better than this quick and crappy blanket iPhone capture, but I thought it useful to post this anyway to offer a better estimation of scale on the little boomer.
http://www.sabre-design.com/images/levers.png
This particular brace includes my younger son's .30-30, which is a 336 Guide Gun -- already a pretty compact rifle in its own right. (Yes, we know that the hammer was left cocked after clearing.)
The one with the wrong-handed, nothing-special butt-cuff is obviously mine. I probably should have flipped it over to showcase the lipstick-sized rounds, but I think you get the general idea. It is a wonderful, if not-always-the-most-practical gun. ;)
AC
montanadave
07-30-13, 17:36
Very nice. Thanks for posting these pics.
I can see why you'd get a little smile on your face, AC, when you spot that sitting across the room. :)
Very nice. Thanks for posting these pics.
I can see why you'd get a little smile on your face, AC, when you spot that sitting across the room. :)
I agree completely Montana! That would make me smile for sure.
So I get to shoot my father's 45-70 tomorrow and I can't wait. After the week I had it is much needed.
Ridgerunner665
08-23-13, 21:35
The good old 45-70...a fine round...one of my all time favorites for bear.
Some things I think about it...loaded to the gills (405 grain slug at over 1,900 fps) it will jar your fillings loose...hits about as hard on one end as it does the other...but I like it!
Hot loaded 405 grain bullets kick the worst...stiff loads with 500+ grain bullets are a bit easier on the shoulder, but not by much.
I prefer 405's for bear hunting...and 350's for reduced loads...and I recommend the reduced loads for HD use....soft recoil, low noise, deadly accurate...and a 350 grain slug at 1,200 fps will cause any bad guy to have a real bad day.
I think these guns are at their best with big chunks of solid lead...and have proven it in the field...big bullets with wide flat noses...you should hear the sound they make when they hit a deer at 200 yards...its kinda like throwing a wet rug over a clothes line and taking a home run swing at it with a boat paddle...this is best experienced when you're not the shooter but are closer to the deer (or bear, or whatever) than the shooter.
Oh...and don't overlook the very simple and very effective peep sights (google Skinner Sights)
Some pics...my bear gun...Marlin 1895 wearing GBL laminated wood.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/45-70pic.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/Ridgerunner665/media/45-70pic.jpg.html)
100 yard accuracy...with Skinner peep sights...I only had 4 rounds loaded, and to be honest...I shoulda stopped at 3....these are 405 grain Beartooth bullets at 1,950 fps....they are ferocious on both ends of the rifle.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/132_3227-1.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/Ridgerunner665/media/132_3227-1.jpg.html)
The ammo used above....405 grain BTB with 50 grains of H322.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/132_3214.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/Ridgerunner665/media/132_3214.jpg.html)
These are reduced loads using bullets I cast myself, Ranch Dog 350's (google Ranch Dog molds.....AWESOME guy)....these have a reduced charge using Unique pistol powder...I forget the exact charge but I can find it on Marlin Owners Forum....I used these for the Postal Match there.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/0521112245a.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/Ridgerunner665/media/0521112245a.jpg.html)
The results...I don't remember now if this was at 50 or 100 yards...either way its a good group...again, using Skinner peep sights...the flier is my fault, and the reason I placed 2nd in the match.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc137/Ridgerunner665/100_0054.jpg (http://s217.photobucket.com/user/Ridgerunner665/media/100_0054.jpg.html)
Nice write up thank you very much.
Desert Dog
08-24-13, 10:22
The 45-70 is such a classic round for a lever gun. I bought a Marlin Guide Gun years back and it has served me well. No doubt, loading to super thumper levels can be an eye opener the first time you touch one off. Still love it, just the same...
For those that don't roll your own, or don't have time for load development, and if you aren't opposed to paying a premium price for a premium product, Garrett loads some really serious rounds for hunting. Need something that can go end-to-end on a Cape Buff (or through a truck block...)? Hammerheads in 420 @1850 and 540 @1550, are super hard cast rounds that penetrate like crazy.
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/4570.html
If looking at sighting options, an innovative lever gun smith who's work is worth checking out, is Lew Bonitz at Grizzly Custom. Some of the nicest lever guns I've seen have come from his shop.
http://www.grizzlycustom.com/
great post with a ton of insight. Been researching lately before I purchase one for deer season. Can't decide between GBL or GG 45-70 but really a versital round. A winner either way I guess. Do like the extra capacity of the GBL though.
great post with a ton of insight. Been researching lately before I purchase one for deer season. Can't decide between GBL or GG 45-70 but really a versital round. A winner either way I guess. Do like the extra capacity of the GBL though.
I don't know if I would shoot a white tale with this round... Or even a mule deer. Especially if you're looking to save as much meat as possible...
So I shot this gun today and I fell in love. Factory rounds 350 and 405grn. The recoil was not bad and I loved the leopold 2x7 optic. The gun grouped more then acceptable on anything living, the action was fast, and I honestly did not feel like the recoil was punishing enough to prevent accurate follow up shots if need be. My only complaint with my father's gun is that that magazine is short and only holds 4 rounds.
Do they make extension magazines? I would love to have this be a 6 plus one gun.
Someone mentioned taking out a truck block with a hot round... I could see that.
Today was a good day.
I don't know if I would shoot a white tale with this round... Or even a mule deer. Especially if you're looking to save as much meat as possible...
So I shot this gun today and I fell in love. Factory rounds 350 and 405grn. The recoil was not bad and I loved the leopold 2x7 optic. The gun grouped more then acceptable on anything living, the action was fast, and I honestly did not feel like the recoil was punishing enough to prevent accurate follow up shots if need be. My only complaint with my father's gun is that that magazine is short and only holds 4 rounds.
Do they make extension magazines? I would love to have this be a 6 plus one gun.
Someone mentioned taking out a truck block with a hot round... I could see that.
Today was a good day.
loaded down it makes a fine rifle for deer. do a google search and youll have some fun interesting reading. they can even be loaded with bird shot from what ive read. good luck
In my Marlin The Beartooth 350gr “Piledriver” with 51.8 of Reloader 7 in WW Brass with Fed 210M primer
Love that bullet for Moose and Bear !
Marlin 45-70s are awesome.
I have a stainless 1895 guide gun, which is a great package, and a Ruger Number 1 single shot - both in 45-70. The Remchester factory loads are pretty mild and the recoil shows it. You can also shoot loads safely in the Marlin that make my eyes water.
I see the 45-70 as a handloader's cartridge because the ammo is so pricey. On the other hand, between the factory 300/405 gr. jacketed rounds, various lead "cowboy loads, Hornady's leverevolution, and Garrett's +P ammo, you can do it all with factory loaded.
I would be very concerned with penetration in the 45-70 - they won't stop inside a person unless you are using a "collar button" bullet like these http://www.westernbullet.com/ly4gr6.html
In my opinion, the 357 Magnum lever rifles are a far better choice for defensive use. The 357 is right on the heels of a 30-30 when fired from a 16 or 18" barrel, and they have a higher magazine capacity. Recoil is naturally much lighter, of course.
Andy
That Ruger No 1 in 45/70 can be hand loaded to max Vel
The 350gr Speer FN and IMR 4198 are one of favorites.
The Marlin can be loaded to 2000 fps but the Ruger can go 2100 fps with that 350gr seated out a tad and with a slightly heavy charge. Love that 45/70 here in Alaska.
That Ruger No 1 in 45/70 can be hand loaded to max Vel
The 350gr Speer FN and IMR 4198 are one of favorites.
The Marlin can be loaded to 2000 fps but the Ruger can go 2100 fps with that 350gr seated out a tad and with a slightly heavy charge. Love that 45/70 here in Alaska.
Yeah, Marlin-level loads are plenty spicy for me in the Ruger.
Andy
Yeah, Marlin-level loads are plenty spicy for me in the Ruger.
Andy
The 350gr Speer FN is a excellent bullet that acts like a bonded bullet in the 45-70. I used it exclusively in my Marlin and Ruger…….,when loading in Marlin I did have to seat it a tad shorter to work in the Marlin action but crimped with Lee Factory Crimp die ……….accuracy was excellent also.
Love the Marlin 45/70 especially the Guide Gun and Trapper.
I replaced the cross bolt safety first thing with a Beartooth safety delete kit.
I also replaced the trigger with Wild West Happy trigger kit and replaced the front sight with Williams Fiber Fire Sight and Cut out hood.
Here in Alaska the Marlin 45/70 is very popular for moose and bear protection.
I have used Reloader 7 and 350gr for years 51.8 in WW brass and F210m primers.
I reload for my Marlin 45/70
IMR 4198 @ 48.0
350 Speer FN
WW brass and Fed 210M primer
I installed a Happy Trigger in mine and side Safety Delete.
those were the days.I never did blame marlin as it was going to be a matter of time before someone blew up a gun.the data posted by some members for the 45/70 rounds was just crazy.
pete
Fast powder + large case capacity = kaboom. It doesn't help that there isn't a lot of barrel hoop where it screws into the receiver (or a lot of receiver).
I loaded some fairly warm loads in mine, but I find the recoil in my Guide Gun downright painful. I am much happier with 350-400 gr cast bullets at 1400-1600 fps, even in my NO.1.
Andy
Eurodriver
06-28-22, 06:57
Saw Army Chief and was so confused.
Then I realized it was from 2013.
Miss his wit.
That Ruger No 1 in 45/70 can be hand loaded to max Vel The 350gr Speer FN and IMR 4198 are one of favorites. The Marlin can be loaded to 2000 fps but the Ruger can go 2100 fps with that 350gr seated out a tad and with a slightly heavy charge. Love that 45/70 here in Alaska.
You it is serious?
Saw Army Chief and was so confused.
Then I realized it was from 2013.
Miss his wit.
Right there with you! I was just talking about Chuck today with a buddy at church that knew him also.
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