View Full Version : Live round IN the charging handle.
Did a quick search to make sure that this malfunction wasn't something common, and that I was missing something. This is the first I have heard of it.
Today while at the range, I changed magazines after the bolt locked back, hit the bolt release, and the bolt went about 50 percent of the way forward. Having prepped for this before it was easy to pull the charging handle to eject the unchambered round, and let it take the bolt home to chamber a fresh round. Bolt moved all of a half inch forward, and I realized that I did not see a round eject.
Dropped the mag, pulled the CH, and locked the bolt back. Rotated the weapon to the side and there is NOTHING in the chamber, but there is a LIVE ROUND sitting inside the charging handle. Just hanging out there stopping the BCG from reaching the gas tube. A hard shake and the round dropped free. Field stripped the weapon and everything appears to be just fine.
I have marked the magazine for malfunction testing only, and won't be trusting it to anything more than drills. Im guessing that the round cleared the feed lips before the release was hit, and the velocity of the BCG coming forward thrust it up into the CH.
Has anyone ever seen or experienced this malfunction before?
vicious_cb
07-28-13, 19:57
Its a charging handle impingement. Not a very common malfunction but one that you should be trained to handle in case murphy decides to piss on your parade. May require finger banging the magwell or palming* the rear of your charging handle to clear.
*palm striking the rear of the charging handle to push it forward as sometimes pulling the charging handle can make the malfunction worse.
I've never heard of that one before.
Cleared fast once the mag had dropped. It was just something that I had not run into up until this day.
I've never heard of that one before.
this :confused:
decodeddiesel
07-28-13, 20:50
I've seen it happen when a borderline magazine is inserted with too much vigor into the magwell and a rounds pops out and into the charging handle area.
Not very common though.
It's also called bolt override. It's pretty uncommon. Drop the mag, pull the charging handle back as far as it will travel (without excess force), press your finger against the bolt face to hold it back, and push the charging handle forward with your other hand. That will usually take pressure off the case and allow it to fall through the magwell.
Instead of pushing on the bolt face, push on the bottom of the bolt release.
Instead of pushing on the bolt face, push on the bottom of the bolt release.
Like I said, locked the bolt back, dropped the mag, cleared the jam. I am really quite pleased to hear that I'm not the first person to run into this one.
It's definitely one of those wtf moments
I guess if it's next to impossible to go wrong... It still will?
Steve in PA
07-29-13, 06:38
I've never heard of that one before.
Kyle Lamb has a You Tube video called "Three Little Kittens" that covers this type of malfunction. http://youtu.be/-TqLnBd1udM
MDTS Training also as a printed article on complex malfunctions
http://www.mdtstraining.com/Carbine%20Malfunctions_MDTS_Part2.pdf
Never even heard of that until today, very interesting. At least I know have an understanding of what to do to clear it alongside of the normal procedures.
Too bad you did not take any pic's before clearing it!
This is a new one on me as well.
Kyle Lamb has a You Tube video called "Three Little Kittens" that covers this type of malfunction. http://youtu.be/-TqLnBd1udM
MDTS Training also as a printed article on complex malfunctions
http://www.mdtstraining.com/Carbine%20Malfunctions_MDTS_Part2.pdf
Thanks for the links.
diving dave
07-29-13, 13:29
If you get a chance take Lamb's carbine class, he will show you some weird ones and how to fix em...
It's also called bolt override. It's pretty uncommon. Drop the mag, pull the charging handle back as far as it will travel (without excess force), press your finger against the bolt face to hold it back, and push the charging handle forward with your other hand. That will usually take pressure off the case and allow it to fall through the magwell.
May be uncommon, but happend TWICE to me in the same week, with a brand new M4 - literally an out of the box weapon. Had to mortar it both times.
Now, Lord knows how old the magazines were ...
Its a charging handle impingement. Not a very common malfunction but one that you should be trained to handle in case murphy decides to piss on your parade. May require finger banging the magwell or palming the rear of your charging handle to clear.
+1
Never actually had it happen to me, but learned to mitigate this in training classes.
Drop the mag, or rip it out if a round has been partially stripped. Lock the bolt to the rear, slam the CH forward, finger bang if needed. Rack the CH several times, reinsert the mag and continue.
Kyle Lamb has a You Tube video called "Three Little Kittens" that covers this type of malfunction. http://youtu.be/-TqLnBd1udM
MDTS Training also as a printed article on complex malfunctions
http://www.mdtstraining.com/Carbine%20Malfunctions_MDTS_Part2.pdf
nice, learn something new every day.
HardToHandle
07-29-13, 21:05
Had a similar incident happen to me while we were doing unknown issue drills in a weekend course. The guy who set me up didn't intend this type of malfunction, but managed to foul it royally.
Solution was mortaring after a few minutes of failed sweating and swearing. Not an easy malfunction to clear nor something SPORTS will immediately clear.
I've had a 9mm AR do something similar. Also not fun.
Heavy Metal
07-29-13, 21:29
May be uncommon, but happend TWICE to me in the same week, with a brand new M4 - literally an out of the box weapon. Had to mortar it both times.
Now, Lord knows how old the magazines were ...
No need to mortar a **** you ovveride malf. Find something to use agains the bolt face like a live round from a magazine and after removing the magazine push forward on the CH while pulling backwards on the bolt face. Hung round should drop thru the mag well.
No need to mortar a **** you ovveride malf. Find something to use agains the bolt face like a live round from a magazine and after removing the magazine push forward on the CH while pulling backwards on the bolt face. Hung round should drop thru the mag well.
Exactly. This is what the hook on the MUT tool is made for.
It was relatively easy to clear by hand. I can imagine that the round could have gotten hung up on the gas tube and made things one hell of a lot more interesting.
Sorry for the lack of pics, but I didn't want to go dig through my pack for my phone. Simply wanted to clear the jam and get back on target.
Mr.Anderson
07-30-13, 03:55
Travis Haley covers this type of jam/clearing in his panteo dvd as well
polymorpheous
07-30-13, 04:06
It's also called bolt override. It's pretty uncommon. Drop the mag, pull the charging handle back as far as it will travel (without excess force), press your finger against the bolt face to hold it back, and push the charging handle forward with your other hand. That will usually take pressure off the case and allow it to fall through the magwell.
This is exactly how Pat McNamara teaches it.
He cleared it so fast, we had him set up the malfunction again.
No need to mortar a **** you ovveride malf. Find something to use agains the bolt face like a live round from a magazine and after removing the magazine push forward on the CH while pulling backwards on the bolt face. Hung round should drop thru the mag well.
Well if I had known this before hand (or our cadre had) I suppose it would have worked. Maybe - that first round was really stuck in there.
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