Anyone shooting steel-cased ammo thru a S&W M&P or PSA AR?

[Phlipper]

I want (need?) another AR and there are some decent choices in my range, but I shoot a lot and have had to go with steel-cased ammo since the panic buying ensued. Does anyone own an M&P or PSA upper that gets a steady diet of steel-cased 5.56? How's it working for you? Any issues with extraction? Would reaming the chamber help, without raising additional issues?

I've only shot steel from a friend's RRA mid-length, and since the steel cases don't expand the rather dirty ammo (Wolf) was gunking up his chamber pretty badly. We mortored quite a few out in one day. However, I've read on the webz of S&Ws and Colts just burning thru the Russian stuff like butter, with not a single issue. Does anyone have recent experience running steel-cased 5.56 thru either of these two weapons?

[Grand58742]

When I still had my PSA, I ran steel through it with no problems, maybe upwards of six hundred rounds before I sold it. Others I've seen also aren't having trouble.

Just a pain to clean afterwards.

[kaltesherz]

Any decent AR can run steel cased ammo without any reliability issues, but you'll wear out your barrel much faster.

[polymorpheous]

A proper 5.56 chamber will run steel cased.
Your friends Rock River does not have this.

There is STILL a lot of misinfo out there about steel cased.
I suggest you run a search on it.

[polymorpheous]

Any decent AR can run steel cased ammo without any reliability issues, but you'll wear out your barrel much faster.

No he won't.
Heat kills barrels.
In other words, mag dumps and lots of them.
A normal firing schedule won't affect barrel longevity significantly.

[Phlipper]

When I still had my PSA, I ran steel through it with no problems, maybe upwards of six hundred rounds before I sold it. Others I've seen also aren't having trouble.

Just a pain to clean afterwards.

Yes, depending on brand, it can be pretty bad. Thanks much.

[MistWolf]

It's not the steel case that wears out barrels faster, it's the steel jacket of the bullet and I believe it's in part because the steel jacket doesn't seal the bore as well as a copper jacket and the blow by increases wear.

I've shot some steel cased Herter's- I think was around around 500 to 1000 rounds- through my PSA carbine. Every now and then, a case would stick in the chamber and I'd have shorten up the stock and pogo it. That didn't always work so I'd started keeping a steel rod for poking out the stuck case. There's a trick to it though- Don't drop the rod down the bore and go banging away on it with a hammer. That doesn't work very well because the force gets wasted flexing the rod. A better way is to drop the rod and let momentum do the work. The rod will drop down and hit the case with a rap. It may take a few raps but it will eventually drive the case out.

The reason steel cases will stick is because it's loaded to lower pressures so it won't stick in the chamber. Doesn't make sense, does it? I'll explain-

Steel has less elasticity than brass so when it expands when the round is fired, it doesn't spring back as much. To keep it from expanding too much and sticking in the chamber, pressure is reduced. The downside, however, is that it doesn't expand enough to completely seal the chamber. (That's why brass make the ideal case for ammo- it expands to seal and grip the chamber but springs back enough for positive extraction.) Gases leak past the mouth into the chamber to leave carbon deposits. When the deposits build up enough, cases start sticking.

But, you point out, AKs don't have problems with steel cases sticking in their chambers- and rightly so. Russian ammo was designed with a steeper body taper which prevents the cases from sticking even with carbon fouling and steel cases. The trade off is needing highly curved magazines and increased bolt thrust.

It's also been my experience that steel cased ammo feeds better from the polymer Pmags than the aluminum GI mags. Steel cases against the aluminum feed lips results in stiction, requiring more force to strip and feed the round reliably. Since the ammo is loaded to less pressure, you're already behind the power curve. Of course, your experience may be different

[Samson1]

with so many threads on this topic, are we really going to do this again?

[Socom Elite]

My PSA AR runs it fine. It's all I feed it

[RMiller]

with so many threads on this topic, are we really going to do this again?

Agreed. OP us the search button.

A brief summary:

- Properly spec'd chamber has no problem with steel cased ammo.
- Bi-metal jackets will use up a barrel slightly faster
- Shooting steel cased ammo saves you enough money that you could replace that said barrel 3 fold if not more.
- Heat kills barrels.....yea full auto or bubba mag dumps.
- Throwing this steel cased ammo in a plastic grocery sack along with a few squirts of WD-40 and spread it all around goes a long way.
- Be careful when playing with buffers if you plan to shoot alot of steel cased ammo. Most is considered under powered.
- Tula is known to be weakest. Seems to be more functional with a carbine length gas system,but can be ran with a middy with a lighter buffer. The gas port has a lot to do with it too.

Search for steel cased ammo. Search button will give you hours of reading.

And if anybody posts that damn lucky gunner test.....:D

[CrazyFingers]

I've run 2500+ rounds of Brown/Silver Bear and WPA through my BCM 16" middy with no issues (now running brass reloads). The only thing it choked on was Tula, which wasn't exactly a surprise.
As long as you get a quality rifle with a proper chamber, you should be fine.

[Devilstang]

I've ran several hundred rounds through my S&W M&P sport and it functions flawlessly. That was before I put my Bravo company stripped upper on.

[Jeffro2912]

I put close to a 1000 steel cased through my 16" Spikes middy without issue.

[kittyhawk]

Before I replaced my barrel on my M&P 15T I had over 10,000 rounds on it. I would say over 75% was wolf. I had a few cases stick in the chamber and had to mortar them out. The worst was Tula I had them stick all the time.
The barrel started off shooting 1.75" groups at 100 and 8 years and over 10,000 rounds later it shot 5" at 100 with a 3/9 scope. So I really thinks its true about the steel jacket wearing on the rifling. I also noticed that the flash finder was all gunked up with carbon.
I replaced the barrel with a Rainer arms select and it now shoots .80" at 100 with black hills 75gr match.

[kaltesherz]

No he won't.
Heat kills barrels.
In other words, mag dumps and lots of them.
A normal firing schedule won't affect barrel longevity significantly.

No, bi-metal steel jackets kill barrels as well. Obviously this test was on Shrubmasters but killing a barrel with bi-metal steel in 6,000 vs copper jacketed still being good after 10,000 is not a slight difference. Surprised me as well, I used to shoot a shitload of Brown Bear...

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

[CrazyFingers]

And there's the Lucky Gunner article, which people use to substantiate their claims that bi-metal projectiles will kill their barrels faster.

Without scrolling to the bottom of the article where the cost/benefit graph clearly shows that you come out way ahead by shooting bi-metal and replacing a barrel vs. paying significantly more by shooting FMJ lead.
Or noting that Lucky Gunner was doing high volume mag dumps and burning their barrels out.
Obviously the graph is based on pre-panic retail pricing for factory rounds, but the point is still valid.

[Phlipper]

Thanks Socom, Devilstang, and Kittyhawk. That's the info I asked about. Appreciate it.

[PA PATRIOT]

The Wifes PSA 16" Middy has seen nothing but steel and has never tasted a single round of brass. Roughly 4000rds fired with 3000 of Wolf and the last 1000rds being Tula.

She runs a Carbine buffer with a Springco White standard power spring and so far with a 500rd cleaning schedule the only problem has been seven FTF (Five Tula and Two Wolf) and one failure to extract with a rim rip (Wolf) and that's not to shabby with 4000rds of steel fired.

[RogerinTPA]

Agreed. OP us the search button.

A brief summary:

- Properly spec'd chamber has no problem with steel cased ammo.
- Bi-metal jackets will use up a barrel slightly faster
- Shooting steel cased ammo saves you enough money that you could replace that said barrel 3 fold if not more.
- Heat kills barrels.....yea full auto or bubba mag dumps.
- Throwing this steel cased ammo in a plastic grocery sack along with a few squirts of WD-40 and spread it all around goes a long way.
- Be careful when playing with buffers if you plan to shoot alot of steel cased ammo. Most is considered under powered.
- Tula is known to be weakest. Seems to be more functional with a carbine length gas system,but can be ran with a middy with a lighter buffer. The gas port has a lot to do with it too.

Search for steel cased ammo. Search button will give you hours of reading.

And if anybody posts that damn lucky gunner test.....:D

Doesn't need to be that complicated, but to each his own. I normally give the chamber a shot of Ballistol or EWL (Any quality lube will do) before a class (one shot per day) or range session (shooting 10 mags) and haven't had a stuck case in 5 years and clean around the 3K rounds fired mark.

As far as buffers & action springs are concerned, I've found that statement to be untrue. These are the combos that I've used and they all worked quite well & very reliably. All have been ran through carbine courses with those buffer and action spring combos, except for the 6920 and 12.5, which are recent upgrades, but have 500+ rounds fired in those configuration.

16" carbine (6920), I use a H buffer & Red Springco enhanced buffer spring , which has 3 additional coils over a standard spring (current configuration). An H or carbine buffer with standard spring will also work.

16"x 2 & 14.5" middies, H buffer & Blue Springco enhance spring, which has 2 additional coils over standard (current config.). A carbine buffer and standard spring will work.

12.5 SBR, H2 & Blue Springco enhanced Spring (Current config). An H and standard spring will work.

10.3 SBR, H2 (or H) with standard carbine spring. You can also use a White Sprinco Spring, which is same length, but more durable.

All shot with various steel cased ammo, primarily Wolf, and the occasional PMC or Prvy 193.

It all boils down to having a quality military grade platform with a 5.56 chamber first. I can't vouch for commercial grade guns (dpms, stag, rra, oly, etc...)