View Full Version : Concealed Carry - After the shot?
What is your plan for after the shot? Do you have a lawyer already?
Did you join of of these groups?
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/membership/
Network, + Some insurance?
http://armedcitizensnetwork.org/
Network, + assistance?
If so:
Which one?
Why?
Others?
Anyone had to actually use one of these services?
Thanks!
Mr. Rapp,
Perfect timing for this. A local law firm here in AZ has just put together just such a plan. It is currently available for residents of AZ and Oregon with a few other states to follow (I believe California and Texas).
I am signed up for it already and in my opinion you would be stupid not to do it. In light of some of the recent shootings and associated baggage it's almost a no brainer. Here's what they are offering;
24/7 emergency hotline answered by an attorney
Attorney comes to your side at the scene
No additional legal fees beyond the annual Gunn Shield fee for criminal and civil representation – Your entire legal defense is covered!
Bail bond premiums paid for bonds up to a $50,000 face value
Immediate referral to trauma counselors
Temporary lodging arranged and paid during law enforcement processing evidence at your home
Monthly legal advice and legal updates
Annual, documented Home Protection/Prevention course provided by active law enforcement officers
Periodic, free law seminars
Prepared statements to provide to first responders
Coverage offered to residents of Arizona and Oregon ONLY – Want Gunn Shield in your state? CONTACT US
I even got NRA Shooters legal insurance promotion in Email. This topic is hot and on everybody's mind.
Mr. Rapp,
Perfect timing for this. A local law firm here in AZ has just put together just such a plan. It is currently available for residents of AZ and Oregon with a few other states to follow (I believe California and Texas).
I am signed up for it already and in my opinion you would be stupid not to do it. In light of some of the recent shootings and associated baggage it's almost a no brainer. Here's what they are offering;
24/7 emergency hotline answered by an attorney
Attorney comes to your side at the scene
No additional legal fees beyond the annual Gunn Shield fee for criminal and civil representation – Your entire legal defense is covered!
Bail bond premiums paid for bonds up to a $50,000 face value
Immediate referral to trauma counselors
Temporary lodging arranged and paid during law enforcement processing evidence at your home
Monthly legal advice and legal updates
Annual, documented Home Protection/Prevention course provided by active law enforcement officers
Periodic, free law seminars
Prepared statements to provide to first responders
Coverage offered to residents of Arizona and Oregon ONLY – Want Gunn Shield in your state? CONTACT US
What if you are an AZ resident, but in another state (Not OR) and have an incident? How would that work?
As a non resident of those states which of the two I linked is a better option, in your opinion?
I even got NRA Shooters legal insurance promotion in Email. This topic is hot and on everybody's mind.
I just "Googled" this.. Not real sold on it.
Must Purchase this First:
http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/Excess.htm
This is the Self Defense add on:
http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/defense.htm
Is that what you were referring to?
Here's what my guy said.
In response to your question, our lawyers would simply get admitted “pro hac vice” (Latin: “for this occasion) in the court where the client is charged and work with local counsel to provide the same quality defense we provide in the states where we are presently licensed. Our clients are covered no matter where they are. Fortunately, we have relationships with attorneys nationwide and we maintain a contact list for each state.
As far as I can determine, the insurance policies being offered by the various companies are all a version of Lawton Risk Management’s policy originally developed for the NRA, and there are some limitations on that policy. Most importantly, the LRM policy DOES NOT pay for criminal defense up front. It only reimburses the policyholder if the policyholder is acquitted. So the policyholder still has to find the money to pay a defense attorney.
I also know a bit more about the insurance world than the typical man on the street, so I’m not “wowed” by policies that are being offered by different companies. I know I can find identical, or better, coverage through a surplus lines carrier or specialty underwriter.
Take my comments with a grain of salt, though, since I’m obviously biased toward my firm’s defense system. My problem with other offerings is that none of the companies are law firms and can’t provide the full protection that a gun owner truly needs.
If I did not have a horse in the race, so to speak, I would recommend that a person layer the Armed Citizen’s plan with the Lockton/NRA/USCCA policy to cover as many gaps as possible. The protection would still be lacking, in my opinion, but there’s really nothing that can be done about the gaps.
Thanks good info. Why the Armed Citizen's Defense vs. the Concealed Carry group? I have trained with FAS so have been leaning toward Marty's group as it is NW based....
What is needed is one or two national groups that are aligned. If enough of us good guys band together we can support each other (through membership) so that the end result is in our favor.
Sounds like a smart idea. It's like AAA for those who CCW. :p
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-02-13, 19:44
It seems like it is legal services or an insurance company offering that seem to end up covering the same thing?
My thought is I'm only going to be involved in good/just shoots, so I want a lawyer who will keep it from going to trial. Maybe being unrealistic.
The only thing that worries me about the services is the prosecution bringing it up at trial. "The evil white defendant premeditated shooting the honor roll student, so he paid for his lawyering advance!". Hell, they brought up hollow points, concealment and a lack of a safety at the trial. Why not this to show premeditation. Shoot a black kid, won't cost you nutt'in.
Moose-Knuckle
08-02-13, 20:13
I have a law firm I keep on retainer who specializes in self-defense case law and NFA dealings. For an annaul fee the wife and I can call them 24/7 if the need arises and all legal fees are covered.
Anyone who CCW's should have an attorney on retainer. They are also good to have even if you don't CCW, mine also handles home defense cases.
Moose-Knuckle
08-02-13, 20:17
My thought is I'm only going to be involved in good/just shoots, so I want a lawyer who will keep it from going to trial. Maybe being unrealistic.
I'm in TX so keep that in mind, but the law firm I've hired began doing this in 2009 and has not had a single client get billed by a grand jury to date.
I have liability coverage for any incident at work that FLEOA didn't cover and through FEDS plan that is $44/month and comes right out of my check. Coverage is $2 million in liability for any one event and up to $10 million if there are multiple persons involved in any one incident.
Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association is the primary one though as they provide representation for any on-duty event that might occur and for a little extra they cover off-duty as well.
SeriousStudent
08-02-13, 21:18
.....
The only thing that worries me about the services is the prosecution bringing it up at trial. "The evil white defendant premeditated shooting the honor roll student, so he paid for his lawyering advance!". Hell, they brought up hollow points, concealment and a lack of a safety at the trial. Why not this to show premeditation. Shoot a black kid, won't cost you nutt'in.
Good question, but one with an easy answer. I have insurance on my home, and own a fire extinguisher. It sure doesn't mean I want my house to burn down. It means I understand that bad things happen to good people, and work to mitigate that risk when possible.
Magic_Salad0892
08-02-13, 21:51
Delete.
http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org *plus* the NRA endorsed insurance http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/defense.htm
-john
Here are more thoughts from my guy.
IMO, any of the insurance plans have the same holes in them, so for me it would be a pocketbook decision—which is least expensive for the same coverage. The feature I like about the Armed Citizen Defense plan (and a key reason I’d suggest to join) is that they’ll pay out money immediately. Although it’s not surprising that a lawyer likes to get paid, the immediate funding is important for a couple reasons that are not obvious to a layperson.
First, there are Ethical Rules that govern lawyers. One of those rules forbids attorneys from providing criminal representation for a fee that is based on the outcome of criminal litigation. If a potential client approached me and said “I have this insurance plan that will pay you if I’m acquitted. Will you take the case?”, I would have grave concerns about entering the representation on that basis because that arrangement could be construed as taking a criminal case for a contingent fee. Irrespective of whether I won or lost, there would still be a violation of the Ethical Rules, and that would put my license to practice law at risk. Therefore, a potential client shouldn’t expect that a lawyer will necessarily be amenable to representing him/her with nothing but the insurance policy to pay.
Second, a lawyer is much more likely to take on a client who can pay some part of the retainer up front for economic reasons. I’d be more willing to work out payment arrangements with a client who writes me a $10,000 check when he walks in the door. Self-defense cases are time-consuming. A lawyer still has to pay bills, pay his staff, and pay himself. Taking on a time-consuming case with no money can be an extreme burden in some cases because other work has to be turned away (there’s actually an Ethical Rule dealing with how much work you should take on, believe it or not). So if you have no money up front, you might be declined simply because the lawyer can’t afford to represent you essentially for free while turning away other work that keeps his firm running.
Thanks good info. Why the Armed Citizen's Defense vs. the Concealed Carry group? I have trained with FAS so have been leaning toward Marty's group as it is NW based....
What is needed is one or two national groups that are aligned. If enough of us good guys band together we can support each other (through membership) so that the end result is in our favor.
How many more George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin senarios will we see in the future? Sorry, but if you are one of the unlucky ones, having insurance that will actually cover you will be the least of your worries. How are you going to get your good name back? Are you still going to have a job at your workplace?? Are you still going to be married? (seriously) I am all for pro action and insurance but you will still be paying for something that might never be needed unless you frequent places that are likely to involve an altercation ending in a SD shooting. Just saying.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-03-13, 10:57
I am all for pro action and insurance but you will still be paying for something that might never be needed unless you frequent places that are likely to involve an altercation ending in a SD shooting. Just saying.
If you never go places where you might need shoot insurance, why carry a gun?
SeriousStudent
08-03-13, 11:26
....... I am all for pro action and insurance but you will still be paying for something that might never be needed unless you frequent places that are likely to involve an altercation ending in a SD shooting. Just saying.
Sometimes the shooting comes to you. If I knew exactly where and when I would need a weapon, I wouldn't be a mod here. I'd be Galactic Overlord of my own clothing-optional tropical resort.
Because I'd be rich as hell, picking stocks with that kind of foresight.
Stuff happens. You can reduce odds, but seriously, sometimes stuff just happens to you. I stay away from bad places with bad people doing bad things. But bad things still happen sometimes.
How many people have been in locations where one wouldn't expect anything to happen only to end up being robbed or worse?
Your statement has me puzzled. Do you live in Nowhere, MT with a population of 23 and everyone knows one another?
I know people who spend more money on crap every month or at the Red Box than what it would cost for some protection insurance.
IMO not doing it is silly.
How many more George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin senarios will we see in the future? Sorry, but if you are one of the unlucky ones, having insurance that will actually cover you will be the least of your worries. How are you going to get your good name back? Are you still going to have a job at your workplace?? Are you still going to be married? (seriously) I am all for pro action and insurance but you will still be paying for something that might never be needed unless you frequent places that are likely to involve an altercation ending in a SD shooting. Just saying.
Voodoo_Man
08-03-13, 12:22
I have liability coverage for any incident at work that FLEOA didn't cover and through FEDS plan that is $44/month and comes right out of my check. Coverage is $2 million in liability for any one event and up to $10 million if there are multiple persons involved in any one incident.
Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association is the primary one though as they provide representation for any on-duty event that might occur and for a little extra they cover off-duty as well.
Got a link for more info?
How many people have been in locations where one wouldn't expect anything to happen only to end up being robbed or worse?
Your statement has me puzzled. Do you live in Nowhere, MT with a population of 23 and everyone knows one another?
I know people who spend more money on crap every month or at the Red Box than what it would cost for some protection insurance.
IMO not doing it is silly.
I suppose you are correct, shit happens. I was speaking in terms of different parts of town, places you hear about in the news etc...
I live in a town of approximately 800,000 and yes, there are places that I would never frequent. In the two neighborhoods that I have lived, worse thing to happen was someone stealing stuff from an open garage. Honestly, a keen awareness, some call it SA, will keep most people from getting into trouble. Walking around a large downtown city, at night, after the bars have closed, is inviting a potential problem to happen. If you want insurance to provide for a good SD shoot, I won't stop you. People are now going to spend money on insurance because of one nationalized, politically motivated, emotionally charged event. Are the odds so great that YOU will be the next George Zimmerman?? If you think so, then the insurance would be a wise investment.
A key question is how much insurance coverage will be enough. If you are indicted by a Grand Jury, then prosecuted, your legal bills will be enormous.
Bad things happen to good guys... Even skookum sneaky super tactical tough guys. The goal of where I am heading is to be part of a network that screens out occurrences and supports the good guy who gets screwed by the system. That is why I am leaning toward the Armed Citizen alliance. Group of good guys working to support fellow good guys who acted justly. Willing to buy in even if I never need it to help the greater good. Plus the training will be useful.. It's not really insurance but its rallies support when you need it.
HackerF15E
08-04-13, 17:53
I am all for pro action and insurance but you will still be paying for something that might never be needed unless you frequent places that are likely to involve an altercation ending in a SD shooting. Just saying.
I never go driving expecting to be in an accident, nor do I leave my house for work in the morning expecting it to burn down or get hit by a tornado.
Some people go their entire lives without ever being in a car accident or having their house broken into or burn down.
Doesn't mean I don't buckle my seatbelt, keep my insurance paid up, lock my doors and set the alarm, etc.
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