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The Dumb Gun Collector
08-04-13, 16:49
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Hello gentleman,

I finally broke down and bought another gun. I sold off 90% of my collection at the begining of the year during the insanity. Since then I have pretty much been down to my J-frame and HK45C. Really, the only pistol I regreted selling was my M&P40, which I thought was the best all-around home defense gun I had. I also noticed that .40 was the most availible of the three common handgun calibers.

So I picked up a M&P VTAC .40 yesterday. I really don't care about the color either way but I liked the VTAC sights. I got a "decent" price on it but nothing special.

So, I slapped a pair of laser grips on them (I basically won't buy a pistol if I can't run a CT laser on it). I also put my X300 on it.


Today I shot 100 rounds of WWB and 100 rounds of PPB 180 grain HP. I ran 1,2,3 drills at 21 feet and 30 feet. Bunches of box drills and walking forward, backward and sided to side drills. Basically my normal practice routine.


1. The gun functioned 100 percent. Not really a surprise since M&Ps are generally regarded as reliable. The closest thing to a "problem" was that during the first 30 shots ejection was erratic. After that it settled down. Certainly less consistent and forceful than my Hk.

2. Accuracy was excellent. Not quite up to my HK45c, but not much is. Basically as accurate as any .40 cal handgun I have ever shot. I shot groups at 21 and 30 feet. And took shots at 50 and 75 yrd gongs with excellent results.

3. The VTAC sights appear to be overly busy, but they aren't. If you standing under cover firing out into a lighted area the sights are black. If you are out in the sun the fiber-optic sights are the only thing you can see. If you are indoors only the tritium capsules are visible. At least at this point, the sights seem to be pretty useful. The POI was perfectly regulated to the tip of the sight.

4. The laser grips were easy to zero. Really a no-brainer on the M&P since they add no real weight or bulk, and provide you excellent means of shooting in mixed lighting, smoke or at moving targets. They also make dry fire a little more productive.

5. I am not a big fan of the button mag release. Obviously I am in the minority on this. I prefer the mag lever on the HK. I have medium small hands and can drop the mag with my trigger finger on the HK, and reload without shifting my strong hand grip. Reloads are just plain faster with me with the HK system. On the other hand, the M&P's button is easier to operate quickly than the standard Glock button.

6. I still believe the M&P is the softest recoiling polymer .40. The design does a great job of muting the .40 cal "snap" that a lot of folks dislike.

7. I need a "devgru" switch for the gun. I really don't like having to shift my grip to operate the X300. I always despised this on my old Glocks, and always considered it a pain in the ass during low light classes. My opinion hasn't changed.

8. General ergonomics are excellent. I am a big HK fan but I don't think the P30's grip is any better. I much prefer the M&P's short slide release buttons. I occasionally ride the oversized HK levers, I can't see how that could happen with the M&P. On the other hand, the M&P buttons are a little stiff and can slow a reload if you don't slingshot (which I don't).



9. The tan finish does not look to be all that durable. On the other hand, I don't give a crap about finish wear.

10. The M&P is not famous for having a great trigger. I don't see what the big deal is. It is a little more heavy than a Glock (which is arguably too light) but lighter than a LEM. Spend a three thousand rounds with a J-frame and the M&P trigger will feel like a custom 1911. The take up is a bit gritty, but I never notice it while actually shooting the gun. It has a very nice break, with none of the cap-pisol mushyness of the Glock. The reset is nice and short, but again, I am not trigger snob. I can shoot pretty much anything and be happy.


Anyway, I think this gun is going to be an excellent home-defense piece. 16 rounds of 180 grain Gold Dots in the gun, and a spare 15 with versatile sights, a laser and a light are a great all-around system for dealing with burglars and crazies.

gsxr-fan
08-04-13, 18:54
GB,
Congrats on your new VTAC M&P purchase! Love my plain jane model without the magazine disconnect. Yeah, the trigger could be improved but it's reliable and for now it will do.
As for a rounds fired, I've got some 2000 factory rounds of various loads down the tube and not a single hiccup! Can't say that about the owner!:D
The only modifications I've done is stipple the the back strap, mag release button and I've painted the front sight with an orange Sharpie paint pen. The orange front sight is much easier to pickup than the factory sight and works well for outdoor IDPA matches; yeah, night sights, a light and APEX trigger kit is on the Christmas wish list!
As for HD loads, mine is loaded with 15 rounds of Hornady's excellent 155gr JHP TAP rounds which will be more than good enough!
Gsxr-fan

The Dumb Gun Collector
08-24-13, 19:06
Past the 500 round mark. Some further notes....

1. The trigger is absolutely fine. If you can't shoot this it is on you.
2. The gun is reliable. I have about 200 rounds of 180 grain PPU HP through it (thank you Wal-mart) along with White Box, S&B, etc. Doesn't seem to care.
3. I picked up a Dev-gru switch. Definitely worth while but it is fun trying not to grip either the front switch or the the laser switch on the back.
4.The VTAC sights really work. I originally considered getting the 10-8 solid rear but I don't think so. The only unusual thing about them is they are a bit tall. You will not notice this after a little while.
5. M&P 40 mags are extremely hard to find around here. It looks like S&W is spending all their time making Shield mags.
6. Accuracy is excellent. Now that I am comfortable with it I can't tell the difference between it and my HK45c, which was as accurate a gun as I have.
6. I have trouble telling the difference between shooting my M&P 40 and my G19 9mm. The M&P, somehow, seems to have some sort of recoil absorbing voodoo.

PatrioticDisorder
08-24-13, 22:02
Past the 500 round mark. Some further notes....

1. The trigger is absolutely fine. If you can't shoot this it is on you.
2. The gun is reliable. I have about 200 rounds of 180 grain PPU HP through it (thank you Wal-mart) along with White Box, S&B, etc. Doesn't seem to care.
3. I picked up a Dev-gru switch. Definitely worth while but it is fun trying not to grip either the front switch or the the laser switch on the back.
4.The VTAC sights really work. I originally considered getting the 10-8 solid rear but I don't think so. The only unusual thing about them is they are a bit tall. You will not notice this after a little while.
5. M&P 40 mags are extremely hard to find around here. It looks like S&W is spending all their time making Shield mags.
6. Accuracy is excellent. Now that I am comfortable with it I can't tell the difference between it and my HK45c, which was as accurate a gun as I have.
6. I have trouble telling the difference between shooting my M&P 40 and my G19 9mm. The M&P, somehow, seems to have some sort of recoil absorbing voodoo.

I shot my father's Glock 19 (my old Glock 19, bought shortly before the BTF issues started showing up) side by side with my new M&P CORE .40 and honestly I had a hell of a time feeling a difference in recoil. I did shoot the 19 a little more accurately than my M&P, but I'll chaulk that up to the suppressor sights (I have a 3.25 MOA RMR, but I don't want to put it on the gun, waiting for a deltapoint 7.5 MOA to arrive) being a little tall and shooting low at 15 yards and beyond. Good review, a VTAC .40 is definitely on my short list!

decodeddiesel
08-24-13, 22:06
Damn Greg, I think you and I are the same sheet of music when it comes to pistols. I've been shopping for M&P VTACs for a few days, and I am picking on up soon. I've really been on the fence about 9mm or .40. I am generally not a big fan of .40 S&W, but given the 15 rounds mag limits in Colorado :nono: the 40 S&W has an appeal since I would not be able to buy 17 round mags with the 9mm. Also it is much more plentiful here in CO than .45 or 9.

tom frost
08-25-13, 08:44
Past the 500 round mark. Some further notes....

1. The trigger is absolutely fine. If you can't shoot this it is on you.

This statement is so true, and long overdue in relation to M&Ps.

walkin' trails
08-25-13, 08:50
Really good review. I liked the way you stated your observations about the trigger. I have two M&Ps, and noted the grit when I first pulled them out of the box and dry fired, but never when a round was in the chamber and I was up on target. There may be a shooter once in a while that notices the gritty feeling during live fire, but most are thinking more about the gun going bang. Anyway, most recently with my full sized 9, the grit went away after a couple hundred rounds. Your experience of zero malfunctions was the same as mine. I think some of the initial malfunctions many shooters experience with nee pistols comes down to failing to properly clean and lube the pistol before shooting more often than the factory lets a bad pistol slip out. In terms of accuracy, I have found that despite the M&P 9s being notorious for poor accuracy, most pistols I've shot during my shooting life are more accurate than the shooter.

Dos Cylindros
08-25-13, 16:21
This statement is so true, and long overdue in relation to M&Ps.

I agree 100%. Perhaps I am a very trigger tolerant person, but I have never been bothered by the perceived "bad trigger" on the M&P platform. When I switched to the M&P from the Glock for a duty weapon, I short stroked the trigger twice during my first range qual due to the fact that I had been shooting Glock for so long. That one range session is all it took as after that I never had the issue pop up again. The gritty takeup.....not an issue in real life. Perhaps it is an issue if you are target shooting, but in a combat or service weapon it simply does not come into play. I think people forget that Glocks were considered to have abysmal triggers when they were first introduced, but now we see them as the standard.

The Dumb Gun Collector
08-25-13, 18:10
I have noticed, the older I get, the more I shoot, the less I care.

MegademiC
08-26-13, 12:11
I agree about trigger. I don't understand how people feel reset when making .2 or .25 second splits. Maybe mine is a "good" one but its the older version and I have no plans to change it.

If you shoot duty ammo, post your results please. I'm getting 4" groups @25yds with WWB, but I cant get my Winchester defense ammo under 6". Its the "contract overrun" white box 180gr bonded HP, but I'm starting to think it is being sold due to accuracy issues.

wahoo95
08-26-13, 13:53
Great review.....thanks. How's the finish holding up....keep us posted.

My experience has shown that most of the people who complain about the M&P trigger notice the grittiness of the trigger bar deactivating the FP block because they dont properly use the trigger. They tend to fully release the trigger between shots and slap at it when the pace picks up. They so tend to be the people who don't know how to properly press the trigger with their index finger pad and instead pull on it with the first joint of their index finger.

jmoney
08-27-13, 16:42
mine had the same issue with the ejection for the first 100 rounds or so. Now its sitting at around 3k and I have never had an issue with it since.

only problem is finding m&p magazines...

packinaglock
08-27-13, 17:16
mine had the same issue with the ejection for the first 100 rounds or so. Now its sitting at around 3k and I have never had an issue with it since.

only problem is finding m&p magazines...

Same here, mine would usually go straight back over my head.

TriumphRat675
08-27-13, 17:20
Any holster issues with the VTAC's?

matt7184
08-27-13, 17:50
Yes. VTAC sights can get jammed up with the Safariland ALS holsters.

jmoney
08-27-13, 17:51
Same here, mine would usually go straight back over my head.

I made a thread way back with my initial observations and I showed pictures of my arm. Most of the first hundred cases went straight into my forehead and then down on my arm.