View Full Version : 95 year old WWII vet tazed, shotgunned w/beanbag
The_War_Wagon
08-05-13, 16:03
... in a nursing home. And he needed a walker to get around.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-08-03/news/ct-met-kass-0802-20130803_1_butcher-type-kitchen-knife-park-forest-police-taser
The old man, described by a family member as "wobbly" on his feet, had refused medical attention. The paramedics were called. They brought in the Park Forest police.
First they tased him, but that didn't work. So they fired a shotgun, hitting him in the stomach with a bean-bag round. Wrana was struck with such force that he bled to death internally, according to the Cook County medical examiner.
"The Japanese military couldn't get him at the age he was touchable, in a uniform in the war. It took 70 years later for the Park Forest police to do the job," Wrana's family attorney, Nicholas Grapsas, a former prosecutor, said in an interview with me Thursday.
IL's finest... keeping us safe from rogue WWII vets... :rolleyes:
Rattlehead
08-05-13, 16:16
I don't like this story any more than you do, but there's a little more to it than police showing up and simply killing him:
"Attempts were made verbally to have the resident comply with demands to drop the articles, to no avail," the police statement reads. "The resident then armed himself with a 12-inch butcher type kitchen knife."
Still a crappy situation.
FlyingHunter
08-05-13, 16:18
Good thing he also wasn't trying to nurse an abandoned baby deer back to health, they would have "droned" him.
RearwardAssist
08-05-13, 16:21
I don't like this story any more than you do, but there's a little more to it than police showing up and simply killing him:
Still a crappy situation.
Except if you read further down the story states the staff said he did not have a knife and there was not one found in his room. If the police took it as evidence you would assume that would be stated if the journalist has any integrity.
Edited to correct his lawyer said they found no knife and the staff said he dint have one.
The_War_Wagon
08-05-13, 17:33
Yeah, the competing "he was armed/unarmed" mis-direction by SOMEBODY, isn't helping the credibility of officialdom in this case.
Except if you read further down the story states the staff said he did not have a knife and there was not one found in his room. If the police took it as evidence you would assume that would be stated if the journalist has any integrity.
Edited to correct his lawyer said they found no knife and the staff said he dint have one.
The way the article is written answers that question.
He refused medical attention.
good reason to kill someone !
I don't like this story any more than you do, but there's a little more to it than police showing up and simply killing him:
Still a crappy situation.
This is so sad and unfortunate in so many ways.
And I strongly suspect a better resolution was possible.
Maybe people need to be able to lawfully refuse medical attention. Maybe he was just ready to go, too bad it couldn't have been done more peacefully.
Just sad.
Rattlehead
08-06-13, 00:15
He refused medical attention.
good reason to kill someone !
Is that what I said, at all?
I wasn't defending the actions of those responsible for his death, nor was I defending his.
This is so sad and unfortunate in so many ways.
And I strongly suspect a better resolution was possible.
Maybe people need to be able to lawfully refuse medical attention. Maybe he was just ready to go, too bad it couldn't have been done more peacefully.
Just sad.
People can and do refuse all the time. However, things can get a little complicated when you are 95, ill, and lacking an advanced directive. I imagine this guy had some neurocognitive disorder such as chronic dementia or delirium from dehydration that prevented him from having capacity to make an informed refusal. Thus, I'll bet my bottom dollar that a family member was acting as a medical POA and had at least some knowledge that paramedics were coming to take gramps to the hospital against his will.
This is a great example of why everyone should have a living will that addresses common contingencies such as this. It will keep your kids from putting your ass through the ringer for stupid shit long after your bags are packed.
As for the cops, I bet they are toast. Who in their right mind is going to justify this level of force against an immobile nanogenarian - even if he was wielding a samurai sword in one hand and nunchaku in the other. The only bright side for the police is that they killed a 95-year old, so there is essentially zero lost economic productivity for damages.
People can and do refuse all the time. However, things can get a little complicated when you are 95, ill, and lacking an advanced directive. I imagine this guy had some neurocognitive disorder such as chronic dementia or delirium from dehydration that prevented him from having capacity to make an informed refusal. Thus, I'll bet my bottom dollar that a family member was acting as a medical POA and had at least some knowledge that paramedics were coming to take gramps to the hospital against his will.
This is a great example of why everyone should have a living will that addresses common contingencies such as this. It will keep your kids from putting your ass through the ringer for stupid shit long after your bags are packed.
As for the cops, I bet they are toast. Who in their right mind is going to justify this level of force against an immobile nanogenarian - even if he was wielding a samurai sword in one hand and nunchaku in the other. The only bright side for the police is that they killed a 95-year old, so there is essentially zero lost economic productivity for damages.
Yeah...it's a complicated issue with lots of possible variables. I don't claim to have all the answers, just really sad it went the way it did.
I don't like this story any more than you do, but there's a little more to it than police showing up and simply killing him:
Still a crappy situation.
This article says no knife found.
http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/ww2-hero-refuses-medical-care-so-cops-kill-him-in-his-nursing-home/?fb_comment_id=fbc_149703431894421_153189_149853538546077#f284da71cc
Rattlehead
08-06-13, 02:04
This article says no knife found.
http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/ww2-hero-refuses-medical-care-so-cops-kill-him-in-his-nursing-home/?fb_comment_id=fbc_149703431894421_153189_149853538546077#f284da71cc
I stand corrected, thank you for pointing that out.
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