View Full Version : Consensus on nickel boron BCG's?
So now that these BCG's have been out for a while, whats everyones consensus on these? I had a failzero back in 2010 that i ran in an upper for 1500 rounds lubed with no problems. I sold the upper and BCG together and I never purchased another NIB BCG because it didn't seem worth the price. i was also worried of possible issues that could arise at higher round counts and decided it was better to go with a proven BCM on my next build. I'm currently about to finish my latest build and I was wondering how these BCG's are doing now? More reliable, less reliable, same?
The only "issue" I had with my failzero was the gun would almost lock up if I put it away without adding lube after a heavy firing schedule. I would literally have to mortar it to cycle the action. I never tried to keep a round it it and shoot it when it was "locked up" but I'm not sure if the gun cycle in that condition. Has anyone else had this problem? I have a BCM bcg ready to go, but this new rifle will be used strictly for home defense, shtf, etc. Not training or general practice, I already have a separate training gun for that. Would a NIB bcg be desirable for a strictly defensive weapon? I'm sure theres a lot more data/experience on these out there now than there was 3 years ago, I'm looking to tap into that.
It seems to me that if a standard BCG is working for Colt, Daniel, BCM, et al., then that is all that is needed. I went with the BCM.
eternal24k
08-06-13, 20:37
I have one that came in a Sionics upper.
Bottom line: They work, but the most important thing is the quality of goods that the finish/coating/treatment (whatever you want to call it) is applied to.
I personally have not had any problems, it cleans up nicely, but I would never sacrifice or risk quality components if it meant getting a fancy coating.
If you have the money and are getting from a reputable source, try it out, the worth of something varies from person to person, I do not think they are worth much of a premium as I would rather have high quality lube.
Just remember, it's no miracle, it does NOT self clean or fix problems, it just HELPS with lubricity and makes it a little easier to clean (if you do that kind of thing).
my humble opinion
I purchased one from AIM in 6/2011. It cleans easy but not worth the extra cost.
I am still using it and had one problem. After shooting around 200 rounds one hot afternoon and putting the gun away for a week the BCG was stuck tight. I had to force it open and did not find a reason for the problem.
johnnychimpo
08-06-13, 21:12
The only "issue" I had with my failzero was the gun would almost lock up if I put it away without adding lube after a heavy firing schedule. I would literally have to mortar it to cycle the action.
I have a Spikes 5.45 upper that does this after sitting for a while. I fired a couple of mags through it once with no lube and noticed this when I went to clean it. Now it only does it when it's sat with the
bolt closed for a day or so. There's no galling to the BCG or inside the upper so I'm not sure what causes this.
Boba Fett v2
08-06-13, 21:26
I've used 2 NiB BCGs by WMD and 1 from Joe Bob Outfitters. All worked fine. No issues. The one that came in my AAC .300 upper has a NiB carrier, but a standard finish on the bolt itself. Worth the added cost? Maybe to some, but I'm happy with a quality bolt regardless of coating.
Heavy Metal
08-06-13, 21:43
I have a Spikes 5.45 upper that does this after sitting for a while. I fired a couple of mags through it once with no lube and noticed this when I went to clean it. Now it only does it when it's sat with the
bolt closed for a day or so. There's no galling to the BCG or inside the upper so I'm not sure what causes this.
Supposedly, Spikes has some Boron-Carbon(Diamond Like Carbon or DLC) coated gas rings that fix this. I have a set but have not tried it yet.
BufordTJustice
08-07-13, 07:21
I used to use a Spikes NiB. I found that dumping some lube on it before putting it away meant it always cycled nice and smooth.
I have since transitioned to LMT Enhanced carriers and will not be returning to NiB unless LMT creates an NiB version of their carrier (and then, the cost difference must be minimal).
I'm more concerned with the quality of the bolt. I could not verify ANY of the NiB bolts I saw advertised as meeting mil-spec design requirements (i.e. shot-peening, heat treat, MPI, etc). I now use BCM, Rainier, and LMT bolts with complete confidence. A std LMT bolt rides in my E-carrier. I dig the under-cuts on the lugs.
I have a FailZero, and while it does work great I don't think its a REAL advantage over a quality BCG
AlphaKoncepts
08-08-13, 17:40
For my personal AR's I stick with a good quality chromed BCG for the ease of cleaning and corrosion resistance. I haven't run into a situation where I think the NiB would be a requirement. However if a customer wants them, who am I to say no?
Honorthecall81
08-08-13, 17:58
I have a BCM that I sent to wmd guns and had it nib-x coated.. loooovveeee it.. easy clean up.
FloridaWoodsman
08-09-13, 14:24
I'm not a heavy user, but I've been delighted with the ease of cleaning on my Spikes coated carrier and bolt. I'd never go back to the plain stuff.
I wouldn't run mine dry... BUT I do like that they are super easy to clean.
You're not going to find a consensus on anything, let alone AR-related matters.
I have a FailZero BCG on one of my AR's. Runs fine. I wouldn't run it dry though. Can't go wrong with a "regular" BCG, assuming it's from a reputable manufacturer. My other AR has a BCM BCG. Can't really tell a difference, aside from the blingy appearance of the FZ.
SilverBullet432
08-09-13, 17:16
One man's opinion: shoot your gun, clean your gun, lube your gun. Repeat. Any quality parts should not present any problems, in my honest opinion, the nb bcg is a luxury item, any one who lubes his weapon should not have any issues with a standard carrier group. Agreed with the above, it is hard to get a consensus on anything. Everyone has their own likes.
RogerinTPA
08-09-13, 20:19
Not needed for my needs. As others have stated, if you have a quality BCG, and use lube, most will be well served.
Very well said IMO
One man's opinion: shoot your gun, clean your gun, lube your gun. Repeat. Any quality parts should not present any problems, in my honest opinion, the nb bcg is a luxury item, any one who lubes his weapon should not have any issues with a standard carrier group. Agreed with the above, it is hard to get a consensus on anything. Everyone has their own likes.
I wouldn't want it if its so finicky when dry. I'd rather have something less likely to lock up and harder to clean than vice versa.
I have a Fail Zero BCG in the rifle I shoot most often and it has been great thus far. I half-assed wiped it dry one time before putting 300 rounds downrange just to see how it would run for myself(functioned normally). Besides that one instance I've treated it like any other BCG, well lubed. Like others have said, NiB isn't necessary but it doesn't hurt either. A super-slick wonder-coated turd is still a turd. Will my next BCG purchase be NiB coated? Probably not since high quality BCGs can be had for less money. For now I'll just keep lubricating this Fail Zero as if it were a standard BCG and shoot the shit out of it.
Spikes for maybe 1k rounds over the last couple years. Yeah, I don't get to shoot much and it's in a somewhat precision upper so I'm not mag dumping.
Anyway, I treat it like my other bcgs and it's always worked perfectly. However, I can't say it's really worth the premium since my regular Spikes, DD, LaRue, and BCM work just as well. I have an LMT enhanced bcg as well and I think that has a similar coating on the bolt. I have NOT witnessed any negatives as it functions fine when left unlubed after shooting sessions.
ForTehNguyen
08-19-13, 20:07
I bought one to try out in my DD upper which has a DD BCG currently. Just charging the gun theres a lot less grit, resistance, and you dont get the smell of matches. Havent shot it yet. Only thing I've done to it is froglube it w(my DD was also). Next time I get to the range I will compare the cleaning differences.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XICENiBBCG9310&name=ICE+Arms+EXO+NiB+.223%2f5.56+AR%2fM16+Bolt+Carrier+Group&groupid=723
The only "issue" I had with my failzero was the gun would almost lock up if I put it away without adding lube after a heavy firing schedule. I would literally have to mortar it to cycle the action.
that right there is watcha call a HINT...
i can totally understand the allure and promise of NiB coatings - as a few others have said, if the BCG itself meets all the critical specs a lower-friction coating can only help.
what i can't understand is why anyone would run an un-lubed AR unless air temp is too low for the lube on hand.
IMO, the coating is EXTRA lubricity and ease of cleaning, not a lube-free ticket (esp with corrosive 5.45).
for background on the importance of lube (and how relatively unimportant cleaning is), search on pat rogers and bcm filthy 14.
lube early, lube often. now, lube again.
I researched NiB and other BCGs for my S&W MP-15T. I went with a nitrided one from Rubber City Armory. Check it out.
https://www.rubbercityarmory.com/index.php
I haven't compared the RCA to anything but the stock BCG, but it works great. FA. Seems to cycle smoother. Very nice quality. Smooth surfaces. Always found the phosphate BCGs annoying to clean. I use Froglube. The RCA wipes clean pretty easily.
Why not just use oil?
Instead of goofy stuff like Frog Lube and NibX and all other sorts of gimmicks marketed to people who are scared of OIL.
Why not just use oil?
Instead of goofy stuff like Frog Lube and NibX and all other sorts of gimmicks marketed to people who are scared of OIL.
I'm not scared of oil. I use MPro7 on my HKs. When I bought the rifle, the LGS recommended it. Seems to work well. I'm no expert on lubrication or AR-15s, but I like the ease of cleaning and application.
Why not just use oil?
Instead of goofy stuff like Frog Lube and NibX and all other sorts of gimmicks marketed to people who are scared of OIL.
why continue to use toxic oil when non-toxic CLP's are available?
i mean, who's afraid of asbestos - it works great!
Grand58742
08-20-13, 10:15
I researched NiB and other BCGs for my S&W MP-15T. I went with a nitrided one from Rubber City Armory. Check it out.
https://www.rubbercityarmory.com/index.php
I haven't compared the RCA to anything but the stock BCG, but it works great. FA. Seems to cycle smoother. Very nice quality. Smooth surfaces. Always found the phosphate BCGs annoying to clean. I use Froglube. The RCA wipes clean pretty easily.
Check out this thread (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=120946)
Specifically page 13 and WS6's posts. Not very flattering review in the end.
Check out this thread (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=120946)
Specifically page 13 and WS6's posts. Not very flattering review in the end.
I looked at this thread before deciding to get the RCA BCG. There are always some who don't like something a lot of others like. I don't know who WS6 is, and it really doesn't matter. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have not compared it to any other BCG but the stock S&W. I'm no self-appointed "expert", and I'm not saying it's the best, but I happen to like it. Works for me.
Check out this thread (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=120946)
Specifically page 13 and WS6's posts. Not very flattering review in the end.
I love the technology, but dimensional variances drove me to use their customer service. It was 100% honored, but I was asked by Chris Cerino*sp to "just write us off" ---so I did. No use for 'em, and they don't have one for me. That said, the very FIRST bcg groups I got from them were amazing. No sticky firing pin travel, no having to yank hard on the charging handle to unchamber rounds to make clear, etc. That I experienced with their newer offerings.
I bet they correct the problems with variance, but I'm done buying each successive bcg iteration hoping for it.
I love the technology, but dimensional variances drove me to use their customer service. It was 100% honored, but I was asked by Chris Cerino*sp to "just write us off" ---so I did. No use for 'em, and they don't have one for me. That said, the very FIRST bcg groups I got from them were amazing. No sticky firing pin travel, no having to yank hard on the charging handle to unchamber rounds to make clear, etc. That I experienced with their newer offerings.
I bet they correct the problems with variance, but I'm done buying each successive bcg iteration hoping for it.
Sorry about your less than satisfactory experience. FWIW, I got mine a few months ago. Like I said, works fine. I've put around 400 rds through it. None of the issues you describe, but I didn't measure it either.
Sorry about your less than satisfactory experience. FWIW, I got mine a few months ago. Like I said, works fine. I've put around 400 rds through it. None of the issues you describe, but I didn't measure it either.
I didn't measure it until I was asked to because of it's sticking in battery in two different rifles when I tried to clear them.
Yes, I have had BCG's that work well from them in the initial run. They have a lot of variance. I'm glad yours works, but I don't want to have a crap-shoot with another one for a while. I kept it, and might entertain buying another bolt for the carrier at some point in time when solid reports have been rolling in for a while.
Grand58742
08-21-13, 08:30
I love the technology, but dimensional variances drove me to use their customer service. It was 100% honored, but I was asked by Chris Cerino*sp to "just write us off" ---so I did. No use for 'em, and they don't have one for me. That said, the very FIRST bcg groups I got from them were amazing. No sticky firing pin travel, no having to yank hard on the charging handle to unchamber rounds to make clear, etc. That I experienced with their newer offerings.
I bet they correct the problems with variance, but I'm done buying each successive bcg iteration hoping for it.
Stacking tolerances maybe?
Glad the CS worked out for you in the beginning, but that isn't a cool answer to your issues. I've got the NiB coating on a BCG of mine and it works good so I'm not opposed to coatings whether they are NiB or nitrided. But when you see posts with folks start having issues with a particular brand, you suspect them a tad.
I almost pulled the trigger on one myself, but saw your posts and figured I'd wait until they get their product stable.
Stacking tolerances maybe?
Glad the CS worked out for you in the beginning, but that isn't a cool answer to your issues. I've got the NiB coating on a BCG of mine and it works good so I'm not opposed to coatings whether they are NiB or nitrided. But when you see posts with folks start having issues with a particular brand, you suspect them a tad.
I almost pulled the trigger on one myself, but saw your posts and figured I'd wait until they get their product stable.
The firing-pin sticking in the last bit of travel inside the bolt isn't. They make the firing-pin and the bolt, or at least pair them.
The bolt in both of my weapons? Who knows. Swapping BCG's between weapons didn't cause an issue until the RCA BCG was included. Then I had to all but mortar them to administratively clear them from hand-chambering a round using the bolt-release.
I honestly think it's a great product, or will be, once it gets ironed out. I'm just tired of getting product that I don't feel is ready for prime-time. They have had a few humps, and I probably caught them on a bad day, but that doesn't mean I'm cool with it. I've bought well over $1K in BCG's from them, and to be treated that way, I was not impressed. Usually repeat customers that have spread your product to people (I've given 3 to friends, and sold one to M4C's Robb) are not the kind of people you tell "I think you should just write us off".
polydeuces
08-23-13, 08:35
From what I gather the ONLY advantage NiB offers is ease of cleaning - not one iota in the department of added reliability.
What is far more important, better yet - essential - is the origin of the BCG parts- practical example: a while back I put together this BCG:
BCM carrier (keyed and staked) and small parts), FN bolt with no additional "upgrades.
Been running it in a Noveske/VLTOR SBR and Noveske N4.
No hiccups ever. Nothing, Nada.
Idem for two other BGS, all DD straight from the manufacturer.
Over multiple thousands of rounds with some pretty heavy firing schedules shooting cheap steelcase as well as brass there has not been a single malfunction that can be attributed to BCG failure.
I have yet to replace a single part - gas rings included.
As a matter of fact while the FN bolt still has tight gas rings, both DD's are as loose greasy and dirty as a $2 hooker after servicing the 7th fleet, yet still run like the energizer bunny.
Been trying to get them to fail, not having much luck. (Cost of ammo isn't helping either though)
Bottom line - unless one has a BCG of recognizable pedigree one would be pissing away cash.
Better to use that extra $$ for ammo/training IMHO.
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