View Full Version : Interesting Colt QC problems.
We had a customer bring in a Colt 6920 still in the box that he purchased from Walmart earlier today that he wants us to hydro dip and cerakote.
As I was detail stripping everything I happened to notice that the end plate was on backwards, as in the bump was on the outside of the receiver. No big deal as it is an easy fix. So i continue on disassembling the rifle i notice the front take down pin is loose and can rotate side to side. I carefully remove the pin and sure enough there is no detent at all, just the spring. I happen to have a parts bin full of them so no worries.
Now I am by no way a Colt hater, I have 2 6920's at home in my safe that I completely trust. I also understand that the industry has seen an incredible demand and Colt puts out more rifles than most. I am just a little surprised that this rifle slipped past their QC department.
I guess the morale of the story is inspect everything before you buy it, no matter what logo is stamped on the side.
signkutter
08-07-13, 17:54
Sacrilege!!! Heresy!!!... you shall pay for your insolence Sir!!
Shit happens. Even BMW turns out a lemon now and then.
SilverBullet432
08-07-13, 18:12
you going to charge the guy for it? being nothing major, id fix it and let it slide... and charge colt haha :rolleyes:
I have an older 6920 that has the endplate on backwards. No ofher issues however.
A late Friday afternoon build no doubt.
SeriousStudent
08-07-13, 18:26
Good thing you caught that. A lot of gun shops would not have any clue about that, or even know what they were seeing.
Did you take a moment to make note of the serial number and send it to Colt? I bet they would love to start hunting down their QC paperwork for that particular carbine, and see what improvements they can make.
Shit happens. Even BMW turns out a lemon now and then.
Absolutely, everyone misses things from time to time. It's just more surprising to see it happen with Colt vs Brand X. Now if it was a KAC or Noveske then Hell has frozen over and the apocalypse is upon us.
you going to charge the guy for it? being nothing major, id fix it and let it slide... and charge colt haha :rolleyes:
No charge for such a small thing.
Good thing you caught that. A lot of gun shops would not have any clue about that, or even know what they were seeing.
Did you take a moment to make note of the serial number and send it to Colt? I bet they would love to start hunting down their QC paperwork for that particular carbine, and see what improvements they can make.
I did send off an email with the finding to Colt. It will be interesting to see what happens if anything at all.
Did you take a moment to make note of the serial number and send it to Colt? I bet they would love to start hunting down their QC paperwork for that particular carbine, and see what improvements they can make.
This is always a good idea. Most companies genuinely do try to make a good product, but they can be entirely in the dark if their consumers aren't vocal about their products and giving them feedback on what they can change and improve.
SilverBullet432
08-07-13, 18:37
i hope you added pics!! they dont lie!
I have said this time and again and I stress this in the class all the time. No matter who makes your weapon, Colt, Noveske, LMT or even Paul from BCM himself, you should ALWAYS inspect your firearms.
If you can disassemble the weapon into basic groups and look for anything out of the ordinary or anything that is incorrect. If you don't like it then ask for another one and if they don't have another (and unless it is something minor) just walk away.
IG is very right. That's why pilots always do a pre-flight. As good as we technicians want to be, occasionally we miss something. Still, it's embarrassing when a pilot finds it.
Quality control is in the hands of those who make the rifle. Quality cannot be added later. Inspectors can only assure the rifle is made right. I'll bet dollars to donuts that the assembler who missed those will be embarrassed no end when they find out
This is always a good idea. Most companies genuinely do try to make a good product, but they can be entirely in the dark if their consumers aren't vocal about their products and giving them feedback on what they can change and improve.
This is right on the mark. A good company will try to turn these events into learning experiences and opportunities to improve. How did this happen, why did we miss it, what can we do to prevent it from happening in the future? Quality is an ongoing process.
I've had Les Baer Police Special models come in that had castle nuts installed backwards. When I looked at their website, the stock photo shows the exact same thing. I don't think the Baer rifles are of high quality in the first place, but thought this was kinda funny. lol
thopkins22
08-08-13, 03:07
Except Baer does it on purpose and claims it to be an "improvement." Something about catching on gear...IG I think asked them about it years ago.
I've seen a brand new 6920 that had the crush washer (for the flash hider) on backwards. It was about 5 years ago.
Joe Mamma
i hope you added pics!! they dont lie!
You say this in the Age of Photoshop?
Rascal
"You can never be too rich, too good looking, or too well armed"
Probably one of those chinese made Colts Wal-Mart sells....:sarcastic:
I've had Les Baer Police Special models come in that had castle nuts installed backwards. When I looked at their website, the stock photo shows the exact same thing. I don't think the Baer rifles are of high quality in the first place, but thought this was kinda funny. lol
Except Baer does it on purpose and claims it to be an "improvement." Something about catching on gear...IG I think asked them about it years ago.
I think I remember this. They ran it in a catalog photo and when questioned over it they said it was requested by SWAT teams or some sort of LEO who preferred the set up that way so that they didn't scratch themselves on it or something along those lines.
Anyone here ever been scratched by a castle nut? I know I haven't...
Colt or any manufacturer can and do make mistakes, but just remember that the owner could have been futzing around with it before he brought it to you to be dipped and painted.
ScatmanCrothers
08-08-13, 13:26
Maybe this is a test by your customer to find out just what kind of shop he's dealing with. There could be more...
But seriously, there's going to be a rabid QC employee over at Colt who's day was made by your email. Tracing issues down the line to the source for a supply chain/quality control type manager is an opportunity to give recommendations of improvement to prove their worth. Such an OC field of work.
Colt or any manufacturer can and do make mistakes, but just remember that the owner could have been futzing around with it before he brought it to you to be dipped and painted.
The box was still sealed so I doubt that, but you never know.
The box was still sealed so I doubt that, but you never know.
You really cannot seal a Colt box. It is pretty easy to pull back the tape and then put it back (I do it all the time when I am adding something to a gun for a customer). So the customer might have screwed up the gun and then blamed it on the manufacturer (seen that movie before).
Or Colt's QC's dropped the ball.
C4
You really cannot seal a Colt box. It is pretty easy to pull back the tape and then put it back (I do it all the time when I am adding something to a gun for a customer). So the customer might have screwed up the gun and then blamed it on the manufacturer (seen that movie before).
Or Colt's QC's dropped the ball.
C4
I guess I just like to cut things. :D
The reason i'm assuming it was not the customer is that the rifle was purchased hours before, and the inner box has no crease marks from opening.
SilverBullet432
08-18-13, 19:40
I wanted to add this here. I recently went to academy to score some PMAG's. whilst at the gun counter I noticed they had a DDM4 V2 and a 6920. i have my DDM4 so i asked the guy if he could show me the 6920. well i know these are new (but test-fired) guns, but I noticed brass marks on the deflector and a nice scratch by the selector. my first thought was "wow, they didn't even bother to polish it up" I guess Colt has just been to busy to pay close attention these days? other then that it was a solid piece. Everything felt right except for the scratch but all was good.
I wanted to add this here. I recently went to academy to score some PMAG's. whilst at the gun counter I noticed they had a DDM4 V2 and a 6920. i have my DDM4 so i asked the guy if he could show me the 6920. well i know these are new (but test-fired) guns, but I noticed brass marks on the deflector and a nice scratch by the selector. my first thought was "wow, they didn't even bother to polish it up" I guess Colt has just been to busy to pay close attention these days? other then that it was a solid piece. Everything felt right except for the scratch but all was good.
Colt ONLY knows how to build guns for .mil contracts. The "pretty" commercial market is somewhat foreign to them.
For some consumers, it is a big deal. For others, not so much.
C4
bluejackets92fs
08-18-13, 20:19
I've seen a 6920 that the anodizing on the upper receiver was all cracked and had started peeling. Moral is, shit happens to the best of em' sometimes. Joe DiMaggio had a few bad games from time to time.
SeriousStudent
08-18-13, 20:21
I wanted to add this here. I recently went to academy to score some PMAG's. whilst at the gun counter I noticed they had a DDM4 V2 and a 6920. i have my DDM4 so i asked the guy if he could show me the 6920. well i know these are new (but test-fired) guns, but I noticed brass marks on the deflector and a nice scratch by the selector. my first thought was "wow, they didn't even bother to polish it up" I guess Colt has just been to busy to pay close attention these days? other then that it was a solid piece. Everything felt right except for the scratch but all was good.
Personally, I was happy as a pig in deep doo-doo that Colt and BCM test fired my carbines before sending them out. Both of them came with carbon on the inside from test-firing. Both had some marks on the brass deflector. Shows they put it in the right spot, I guess. ;)
If you went to the Ford or Chevy dealer to buy a pickup, would you want them to drive the vehicle a couple of miles at the factory? Or at least start it a few times? I would, just in case someone had a bad day at the plant.
I think, but am not sure, that S&W test-fires their M&P pistols prior to shipping them out the door. If so, I'm glad they do.
When you think about it, test firing a magazine through a carbine is a pretty good final QC check. Which is why the smart kids all do that at the plant.
Personally, I was happy as a pig in deep doo-doo that Colt and BCM test fired my carbines before sending them out. Both of them came with carbon on the inside from test-firing. Both had some marks on the brass deflector. Shows they put it in the right spot, I guess. ;)
If you went to the Ford or Chevy dealer to buy a pickup, would you want them to drive the vehicle a couple of miles at the factory? Or at least start it a few times? I would, just in case someone had a bad day at the plant.
I think, but am not sure, that S&W test-fires their M&P pistols prior to shipping them out the door. If so, I'm glad they do.
When you think about it, test firing a magazine through a carbine is a pretty good final QC check. Which is why the smart kids all do that at the plant.
I agree. Putting rounds through a new made carbine should be the test that tells the tale. Speaking of cars, I once toured an auto plant. They had drivers that took the finished products throught a 2 or 3mile course. They just didn't drive, but had check lists that each vehicle had to pass to make it to the shipping area. They also had a "lab" where a vehicle at random was taken and them ripped apart piece by piece to check for welds and build quality. They should do the same with carbines.
When I pulled my BCM BCG from the package and saw the brass flecks on the bolt face it gave me a warm fuzzy feeling inside ;)
SilverBullet432
08-18-13, 22:36
Personally, I was happy as a pig in deep doo-doo that Colt and BCM test fired my carbines before sending them out. Both of them came with carbon on the inside from test-firing. Both had some marks on the brass deflector. Shows they put it in the right spot, I guess. ;)
If you went to the Ford or Chevy dealer to buy a pickup, would you want them to drive the vehicle a couple of miles at the factory? Or at least start it a few times? I would, just in case someone had a bad day at the plant.
I think, but am not sure, that S&W test-fires their M&P pistols prior to shipping them out the door. If so, I'm glad they do.
When you think about it, test firing a magazine through a carbine is a pretty good final QC check. Which is why the smart kids all do that at the plant.
Yes i feel you man!! My DD came with a little tag that said who it was assembled by, test fired by, and cleaned by. I know colt builds the war horse, i just thought it seemed a bit odd that they sent it out like that. The real biggie was with the scratch though. Heck i know these tools arent made to be pretty but hey! No one wants to buy a new truck with a scratch on it either!! Haha. Agreed 100% though. At least they ensure the weapon is fully functional!!!
Personally, I was happy as a pig in deep doo-doo that Colt and BCM test fired my carbines before sending them out. Both of them came with carbon on the inside from test-firing. Both had some marks on the brass deflector. Shows they put it in the right spot, I guess. ;)
If you went to the Ford or Chevy dealer to buy a pickup, would you want them to drive the vehicle a couple of miles at the factory? Or at least start it a few times? I would, just in case someone had a bad day at the plant.
I think, but am not sure, that S&W test-fires their M&P pistols prior to shipping them out the door. If so, I'm glad they do.
When you think about it, test firing a magazine through a carbine is a pretty good final QC check. Which is why the smart kids all do that at the plant.
Both my M&P .40 and PPS (imported by S&W) came with the spent shells used from at least one test shot at the factory. My Colt also looked like it had a few rounds put through it before it left the factory. Makes me all warm and fuzzy inside :D
It's impossible to be 100% spot on, 100% of the time. We have made mistakes in the past, we're human and imperfect creatures, the stuff we make isn't going to be flawless all the time.
Having seen things like this happen with well established and respected manufacturers, and done it ourselves, we appreciate an open mind that things like this can and does happen. Selector holes undersized, detent channel drilled at 1 or 2 degree cant (resulting in the selector looking a little crooked when it's on SAFE or FIRE), selector holes not drilled evenly on both sides, etc.
The difference between these big names and lesser known and respected manufactures is the quality and workmanship is much more consistent, so the little defects are few and far between.
The worst experience I've had with receivers isn't with the big names, but they're pretty well known (not always in the good way), 4 out of 5 receivers are out of spec on one way or another.
I have 3 Colts, other than the receiver thickness being slightly different, which isn't a defect, none has ever exhibited problems I had with the 5 receivers mentioned previously.
And this is why I request to field strip and inspect prior to purchasing if at all possible. Stuff happens indeed, but a lot of it can be easily detected. A few months ago I was looking at a new AR and politely requested to field strip and take a look. The guy behind the counter snapped back that I couldn't...store policy. I thought that perhaps he thought I was going to go beyond a simple field strip so I explained what I was talking about, same angry answer. He would not even let me push out the rear pivot pin to shotgun it open. No sale. What a tool.
And this is why I request to field strip and inspect prior to purchasing if at all possible. Stuff happens indeed, but a lot of it can be easily detected. A few months ago I was looking at a new AR and politely requested to field strip and take a look. The guy behind the counter snapped back that I couldn't...store policy. I thought that perhaps he thought I was going to go beyond a simple field strip so I explained what I was talking about, same angry answer. He would not even let me push out the rear pivot pin to shotgun it open. No sale. What a tool.
That is kind of a hard one. While I do not mind field stripping the gun for the customer, I would never let the customer do it.
Just as an FYI, I have TONS of customers that will ONLY BUY guns if no other human has touched them. So a store not letting you field strip a gun isn't that crazy to me.
C4
Grand58742
08-19-13, 10:23
That is kind of a hard one. While I do not mind field stripping the gun for the customer, I would never let the customer do it.
Just as an FYI, I have TONS of customers that will ONLY BUY guns if no other human has touched them. So a store not letting you field strip a gun isn't that crazy to me.
C4
I wouldn't be upset if a store clerk refused to let me break down a weapon. I've seen too many people that had no clue how to take apart a weapon and it becomes a liability quickly if not a broken part or weapon.
I always ask first and if denied, ask the clerk to do it for me unless it isn't easily done like for a 1911. But from a name brand company like Colt, Glock or Sig that has good customer service, I forgo the inspection and rely on the warranty/return for problems.
ETA: Now for a used gun being bought person to person, there is absolutely no way I'm buying it without taking it apart first to look it over.
That is kind of a hard one. While I do not mind field stripping the gun for the customer, I would never let the customer do it.
Just as an FYI, I have TONS of customers that will ONLY BUY guns if no other human has touched them. So a store not letting you field strip a gun isn't that crazy to me.
C4
"Can you get one from the back room?"
I have said this time and again and I stress this in the class all the time. No matter who makes your weapon, Colt, Noveske, LMT or even Paul from BCM himself, you should ALWAYS inspect your firearms.
If you can disassemble the weapon into basic groups and look for anything out of the ordinary or anything that is incorrect. If you don't like it then ask for another one and if they don't have another (and unless it is something minor) just walk away.
This! Carbines are built by humans and they make mistakes.
Just as an FYI, I have TONS of customers that will ONLY BUY guns if no other human has touched them. So a store not letting you field strip a gun isn't that crazy to me.
C4
This has always rubbed me wrong. I have had customers flat out refuse a transfer because we opened the box to confirm the serial number.
This has always rubbed me wrong. I have had customers flat out refuse a transfer because we opened the box to confirm the serial number.
Yep. Back when we first started, I used to open every box and inspect the gun BEFORE we shipped it. Then I started getting "This is a USED gun" comments so I stopped doing it.
C4
It kind of makes you wonder which AR manufactures (and their employees) that would happily go ahead and send an AR OTD anyway with something as simple as an end plate installed on backwards, missing a detent pin or anything else as a matter of fact if they actually noticed or knew about it?... I would hope to think Colt or other top tier AR mfgs wouldn't do this on purpose, just an honest mistake or QC miss.
bluejackets92fs
08-19-13, 19:18
You can't expect a company to have a 1.000 batting average in the QC department. I don't care if it is BCM, Colt or KAC, eventually a mistake will happen and slip past someone.
Just as an FYI, I have TONS of customers that will ONLY BUY guns if no other human has touched them. So a store not letting you field strip a gun isn't that crazy to me.
C4
This has always rubbed me wrong. I have had customers flat out refuse a transfer because we opened the box to confirm the serial number.
That just sounds ridiculous, customers like that you don't need IMO. :(
bluejackets92fs
08-19-13, 19:48
Yeah, I can't see an FFL that wouldn't want to at least confirm SN on a firearm. I almost bought a Glock 26 with 3 serial numbers once and it was new.
I purchased 4 6920's this year. 3 of them were go to go but one was a notably inferior to the others and had several "back to the factory" issues. Colt took care of the worst of the issues, a clearance issue in the upper receiver and left a few other issues "as is" claiming they met spec. As I mentioned the rifle is notably inferior to the other 3 and interestingly the earliest one, which dates "pre Sandy Hook", was notably superior to the other 3.
Don't get me wrong, the 4th gun works just fine, its was just a little disappointing when compared to the others.
FWIW...
Yeah, I can't see an FFL that wouldn't want to at least confirm SN on a firearm. I almost bought a Glock 26 with 3 serial numbers once and it was new.
I think that a FFL would have to open the box to confirm the serial number on the rifle matched the serial number on the box before entering the rifle into the FFL logbook. Humans box them up and they could easily put the wrong label on the box.
As long as the fiream does not look like someone at the gun shop took it apart, I don't have a problem with the FFL opening the box.
bluejackets92fs
08-19-13, 21:32
I think that a FFL would have to open the box to confirm the serial number on the rifle matched the serial number on the box before entering the rifle into the FFL logbook. Humans box them up and they could easily put the wrong label on the box.
As long as the fiream does not look like someone at the gun shop took it apart, I don't have a problem with the FFL opening the box.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Refusing transfer just because the box was opened is a little ridiculous. It's a Colt 6920, not a Kreigoff shotgun.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.