View Full Version : Question for LEOs who are issued M&P45
I own the FS M&P45 and love it. In 4 years of owneship I have never had any kind of problem, but Im only a sample of one. On another forum Im on there's a guy who is a LEO and every chance he gets to bash the M&P45 he does. It seems that his agency has had the M&P45 for many years and that they ALL keep failing. Some guys are on their 4th M&P others on their second or 3rd but everyone has problems with breakage of just about every part. I can see maybe getting a bad batch but to have so many problems and for so long as he claims it sounds like they are no better then the avg Keltec.
Now Im confident in my but I dont have a huge sample size. Are they really hit or mis or is this guy smoking something? His agency allows the carry of the older S&W 4506 and thats what he does.
Seems to me that he either got a bad one once and is now embellishing the story or he works for one of the most unluckiest agencies in the US
Though our agency is issued Glocks, the conscensus I've seen on agencies and individuals who carry M&P's is overall positive. The rumor mill is always rampant at my agency regarding new polymer pistol platform acquisitions to include the M&P which I would be my next choice after glock. Every so often there is a dud in the mix, but your buddies stories sound embellished. I would buy with confidence.
GUNSLINGER733
08-09-13, 15:16
Never had a M&P fail, awesome weapon
Tango Charlie145
08-09-13, 15:57
Our agency is on its second batch and we are still having "dead triggers" where there is NO CLICK NO BANG. We are looking at going to Glock.
Failure2Stop
08-09-13, 16:38
Our agency is on its second batch and we are still having "dead triggers" where there is NO CLICK NO BANG. We are looking at going to Glock.
Any idea what the cause is? As in, where the part failure is?
Any aftermarket triggers used?
Pure curiosity on my part, not doubting your experience.
I own the FS M&P45 and love it. In 4 years of owneship I have never had any kind of problem, but Im only a sample of one. On another forum Im on there's a guy who is a LEO and every chance he gets to bash the M&P45 he does. It seems that his agency has had the M&P45 for many years and that they ALL keep failing. Some guys are on their 4th M&P others on their second or 3rd but everyone has problems with breakage of just about every part. I can see maybe getting a bad batch but to have so many problems and for so long as he claims it sounds like they are no better then the avg Keltec.
Now Im confident in my but I dont have a huge sample size. Are they really hit or mis or is this guy smoking something? His agency allows the carry of the older S&W 4506 and thats what he does.
Seems to me that he either got a bad one once and is now embellishing the story or he works for one of the most unluckiest agencies in the US
If you can ask on the other board, get the LEO to tell you
A) How long the pistols have been in service
B) How many rounds are fired annually
C) What kind of ammunition is being used for duty, training and qualifications
D) What is their scheduled preventive maintenance plan
E) What failure occurs with the greatest frequency
Our agency has had 2000+ Glocks in service since 1999 and even they require some kind of maintenance. I am happy to report we haven't seen any "dead triggers" with our Glocks. Every time the pistols were needed, they fired.
I'll ask. He doesnt sound like the type who does a lot of training though.
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Our agency is on its second batch and we are still having "dead triggers" where there is NO CLICK NO BANG. We are looking at going to Glock.
Could this be from years of over oiling that effects the firing pin. I've been told to avoid oil on the upper half all together.
When I entered the academy 5 years ago we were forced to buy the M&P .40. At the time, after seeing 80 of these guns go through 8 months of training I was not a big fan. Mine had random malfunctions. I sold mine and tried Sigs and Glocks after I got out on the street. I still believe its hard to beat the Glock 17/19 combo. 19 for off duty and backup.
2 years ago my department mandated all Officers(approx 1700) move to an issued .40. These newer guns have been much more reliable though the triggers suck. My first was 7+ until it went to the armorer. It is now in the high 5s and has 2000-3000 rounds with zero malfunctions other than annoying auto forward upon mag insertion.
Around the time the department went to the M&P .40 I moved to a specialized unit which is issued Springfield Operators. Mine was a PITA from day 1. Since our team buys .45 bulk for training I bought an M&P .45 w thumb safety to have something I trusted but close to the manual of operations of the team gun. Over the last 1 1/2 I have kicked the shit out of that gun and have zero issues. It always goes bang and is very accurate. The gun gets soggy wet from operations and locked in a truck and beaten by my breaching shotgun that rides behind it and is good to go.
Just my 2 cents.
Ive always found it interesting that issues reported about agency various issued pistols tend to be heavily confined to specific departments. You can have 4 major departments in the ssme area and one may be having multiple issues with their sidearms while the others are experiencing few. Has always made me wonder if its a departmental maintenance or training issue rather than equipment issue.
walkin' trails
08-10-13, 10:18
Ive always found it interesting that issues reported about agency various issued pistols tend to be heavily confined to specific departments. You can have 4 major departments in the ssme area and one may be having multiple issues with their sidearms while the others are experiencing few. Has always made me wonder if its a departmental maintenance or training issue rather than equipment issue.
Good point. I read the FBI's evaluation of semi auto pistols from the late 80sz and the G17 did not pass even though it was issued to, or authorized by a number of departments at the time. While I was carrying one as my primary duty weapon, I recall a small department that issued the 17 that constantly had problems. Glock was empathetic, but I suspect the problem was a lack of transition and training.
Regarding the M&P 45, I've had a personally owned duty pistol since 2009, and carried aG21s before that. I've put around 8K rounds thru mine - all factory loads ranging from CCI Lawman 185 FMJ to Federal HST 230 and a lot of stuff in between. That is more rounds thru one pistol than I put thru two G21s combined.I have had a rolled pin work loose at around 800, noted recoil springs becoming tired at just over 6K, and broke the striker at around 7500. Between that, I've had virtually no malfunctions. I like this pistol better than the Glocks, but that is mostly based on ergonomics, and I still have a baby Glock as back-up. I agree that the M&P has it's own share of problems that have surfaced over the years, to include the striker issue. I also know that S&W stands behind their product. Mine will go back to the factory every 5K rounds to be inspected and have all the springs refreshed. Transition and training are important, as well as allowing cops to carry a pistol they feel comfortable with. Then again, there are those who won't take care of what they carry or train regardless.
Lefty Gunner
08-11-13, 14:29
I have had both Failure To Extract and dead trigger issues on my 9L (IDPA gun). An Apex Extractor and "Large Spring" sear housing replacement have seemed to cure both issues.
My research and personal experience indicates the 45 is good to go. I have used the M&P 45 for an entire season (6-8 matches x 60-80 rounds/match with practice) with no malf's on the 45. Probably 1000-1500 rounds. Accuracy is better than the 9mm with recoil that is as managable as the 9mm. Note not the same recoil as the 9, but times seem to be no different with the 45.
I am not a top shooter But finish near the middle on good days.
Not many complaints about the 45 on the mp-pistol board.
He has yet to reply.
My M&P 45 is all APEX so I cant say if it would have failed or not. What I can say is that its an amazing carry/SD gun
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Tennvol12345
08-11-13, 21:06
Could this be from years of over oiling that effects the firing pin. I've been told to avoid oil on the upper half all together.
Dead triggers come from the plunger being too small. The fix was issued over a year ago. Basically the smaller plunger was replaced by a larger one.
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John Hearne
08-11-13, 22:44
I was just in an Armorers class with an employee of a .gov group that has fielded M&P 45's for about five years. The guns see at least 10,000 rounds a year or more. All of the guns he tends now have 50k to 60k rounds through them and are doing great. They've had two squids with the subsequent round firing into a blocked barrel and the guns held up without harming the shooter.
RogerinTPA
08-11-13, 23:04
Ive always found it interesting that issues reported about agency various issued pistols tend to be heavily confined to specific departments. You can have 4 major departments in the ssme area and one may be having multiple issues with their sidearms while the others are experiencing few. Has always made me wonder if its a departmental maintenance or training issue rather than equipment issue.
I strongly suspect that the complaints are purely political, by people who have a bias and or a pet manufacturer. Attempting to move the department in the direction of their pistol based on a very small sample of occurrences of their current issue, magnified to achieve an orchestrated outcome. These type of play favorite/political sabotage/manipulation tactics are evenly distributed throughout the corporate world when it comes to pet projects and personal agendas.
Dead triggers come from the plunger being too small. The fix was issued over a year ago. Basically the smaller plunger was replaced by a larger one.
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This sounds like an issue the department can take up with Smith & Wesson.
I strongly suspect that the complaints are purely political, by people who have a bias and or a pet manufacturer. Attempting to move the department in the direction of their pistol based on a very small sample of occurrences of their current issue, magnified to achieve an orchestrated outcome. These type of play favorite/political sabotage/manipulation tactics are evenly distributed throughout the corporate world when it comes to pet projects and personal agendas.
Exceedingly well said !!
Our agency is on its second batch and we are still having "dead triggers" where there is NO CLICK NO BANG. We are looking at going to Glock.
Interesting. I shoot a mid-framed 45 (one of the early ones) and have never heard of this issue (nor seen one).
My local SO bought all their M&P 45's from me and never had any issues.
Have you contacted your S&W LE rep so that they can come down and look them over? If not, PM me your contact info and I will make it happen!
C4
I strongly suspect that the complaints are purely political, by people who have a bias and or a pet manufacturer. Attempting to move the department in the direction of their pistol based on a very small sample of occurrences of their current issue, magnified to achieve an orchestrated outcome. These type of play favorite/political sabotage/manipulation tactics are evenly distributed throughout the corporate world when it comes to pet projects and personal agendas.
Yes, this is VERY common. Sad.
C4
Tango Charlie145
08-12-13, 10:23
When it was first happening, our FI's were telling everyone they needed to oil it more. Then when that didn't fix it, it was oil less. They contacted the S&W rep and they replaced all the guns. We have still had a few problems and most recently in re-trainer with an SRO/SWAT deputy and another dead trigger. I am not sure if the FI's have contacted S&W about the latest problems since we are looking at going to Glock. It has definitley caused a lack of confidence in the weapons system. The deputies have been given the opportunity to turn in the M&P and carry personal weapons in the mean time. Most all who have done so are carrying Glocks. Lowest round count for a dead trigger was about 200 rounds with the most recent probably in excess of 1500-2000 rounds. Ammo is Speer 230 gr Gold Dot JHP for duty carry and Speer Lawman 230 gr FMJ practice ammo.
Grant-thanks for the advice. I advised them 4 years ago to contact G&R for an Apex kit but they did not do it.
The only issue that I'm personally aware of is with our immediate neighboring jurisdiction. They issue M&P40c's as their standard sidearm, and have been having problems with the takedown levers on the gun's right side (the one for lefties) breaking off. I heard a few of them griping about it, then personally witnessed it happen to one when we were on the range together earlier this year. The gun kept functioning though.
Our department switched from Glock 23's to the S&W M&P in .45 about 3 years ago. We originally had a fleet of 100 Glocks. Now those Glocks did have minor issues, (spring break here, pin walk there), but they were easily repaired with no down time on the weapons.
Then we got the M&P's. Out of 60 pistols, 11 had the trigger issue where they simply stopped firing. One of our officers discovered his problem on the range, two days after chasing a bank robber..!!
The 11 pistols needed to be sent back to S&W. The whole first batch of magazines had to be replaced also.
Confidence with the M&P plummeted. Fortunately most of the Kool-aid drinkers in our department retired. A new Sheriff was elected. Our new Sheriff has allowed us a choice of three pistols.
We can choose to keep our M&P .45, or go with a Glock 23 or a Glock 30. Our department split 3 ways almost exactly, with 33% going with each weapon choice. The S&W seems to shoot nicer but suffers the aforementioned reliability issue.
Our BUG/Off Duty Policy is still great, as we can carry anything we want as a BUG or off duty as long as it's .38/380 or larger, minus single action revolvers. All ammo is provided for training and duty.
But as for which I chose I went back to the Glock 23, and I haven't looked back.
Regards,
Fogofwar
My agency conducted a test and eval of a large sampling of 45 autos back in 2009. After the extensive T&E session the M&P full size came out on top by a huge margin with the mid-size coming in at second. We decided to adopt and accepted the first delivery in early 2010 and fielded over 500 M&P45's. My agents shoot a lot, averaging 3000 rds per year and I have only heard of three guns failing. I have over 8000 rds through my gun with zero weapon or magazine induced malfunctions. I teach part time at a well known training facility and have never witnessed an M&P go down. I did a fair amount of market research prior to the T&E and could not find any negative info on the M&P45 at that time. Since then I have heard rumors such as this one but have never been able to confirm through an agency to agency official contact. Not saying the claims are false, just that I have never been able to confirm.
Still no reply from that guy.
It seems to be either all or nothing. And hearing some of the responses I'll be looking at the G30 for my next 45. To be fair I have not had any issues with my M&P but ive also been focusing heavily on practicing with my G19.
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andrewcdub
08-15-13, 15:55
I've been following that thread also Arik and he still kinda skirts around the question. After playing around with the glock 36 i think its goin to be my next purchase. I can carry either the 30 or 36 and forget its there. Im leaning more towards the 36 since its a bit smaller.
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