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ptmccain
08-10-13, 19:42
After Action Report

OK, OK…

After Training Report

A summary of my “close quarter battle” class at Asymmetric Solutions USA in Farmington, Missouri. Here's the web site for the civilian classes and more info:

http://www.asymmetricsolutionsusa.com/civilian

Asymmetric Solutions USA is truly the Midwest’s premier training facility, featuring a simply enormous shoot house, the fourth largest in the nation. Asymmetric is a USA Defense Department approved contractor and has been offering a location for training of a wide range of military units, including: Tier 1 units (Navy Seals, AF special forces, US Army SF, etc. etc. Their facility offers literally thousands of acres of various geography, including rolling grassland, rather steep rocky terrain, etc. They have constructed a facility that closely resembles the typical forward operating base that many of our troops experience overseas. Units come and stay for one to two weeks of intensive training.

They are located in the stunningly beautiful rolling hills of South/Central Missouri about a 1.5 hour drive southwest of the St. Louis metro area. Their property allows for a wide range of training opportunities for special forces, SWAT teams and LEO units.

They recently began offering training for civilians and today was my fifth training experience out at Asymmetric and I could not be more pleased.

The instructor staff consists of highly trained, deeply experienced former military, and various former federal agency operators.

Today’s class, “Close Quarter Battle” was based on, and built from, the skills taught in their combat pistol and combat carbine classes.

Six of us met up around 8:30 in the morning and from there it was intense training, with dry weapons until around 1:00 or so. We reviewed basic room and house clearing skills taught in previous classes, but kicked it WAY up. We practiced one man clearing, two man, three man, then five man training.

The shoothouse offers a bewildering variety of rooms, tight corners, small rooms, long hallways, basically your nightmare scenario for clearing a house.

We ran drills all morning and took a break for lunch.

The afternoon was devoted to live fire excercises, running all the scenarios we had intensively trained on in the morning.

I particulary appreciated the fact that the instructors are not simply trying to make us feel like some kind of fake commandos, but explain carefully how we, as civilians, need to put the skills to use. We are NOT simply storming into a room or house shooting anything that moves. We are mindful of our situation and made VERY mindful of the legal, ethical, religious implications of what we may have to do and over and over they emphasize that IF we ever doubt if we can actually execute what is being taught, to simply barricade in a secure area and wait for police to arrive.

This is NOT a training facility for dumb-ass militia/commando/special forces wanna bes. This is the real deal. Very, very serious stuff.

The stress level was HIGH, trust me and when stress levels are high basic skills tend to go to crap. This is why it is so important that this class is taken ONLY after instructors have approved students who have made it through the prerequisite combat carbine/pistol classes.

We ran a wide variety of drills and scenarios. The instructor mixed it up by presenting a variety of targests, marking them as friend/foe. We went over and over our techniques, and the live fire portion was, well, let us say, exciting. Nothing quite like clearing rooms and houses with live fire from 5.56 Carbines blasting away.

SAFETY CONCERNS

This, to me, is really the “genius” of Asymmetric training. They work very hard to build you up in your basic firearm handling skills, in a combat scenario and SAFETY is absolutely number one. In our prerequisite classes we run many, many and … many … safety drills learning how to hold our firearms at low ready, avoiding muzzle flagging anyone, how to switch our safeties on/off in a “muzzle flag” drill that will truly drive you crazy, but it is a GREAT way to learn how to get that muzzle DOWN the moment a teammate crosses in front of you. Yes, of course, cleared and safed weapons.

I’m impressed how the instructors very carefully check every single student’s firearm to make sure it is EMPTY clear and SAFE when we drill, drill , drill.

The live fire exercise are, um, energizing and I’ve truly ever felt so much stress and adrenalin in my life and we are not even being shot back at!

All the skills we have been taught through repeated exercises in our prerequisite classes culminate in CQB training.

I was absolutely wiped out by around 4 / 5 when we finally broke for the day.

One of the really fun parts is that you get to shoot any firearm you brought at one of the ranges. I love shooting steel with rifles, so we put a lot of rounds down range and shot anything anyone else brought. I got to shoot my Glock 34 a LOT today and … I’m in love. Wow.

There is an excellent spirit of team work in the classes and I ‘ll say this:

Your respect and appreciation for the professional who do this constantly for a living absolutely goes into orbit. Wow.

So, if you are anywhere near the St. Louis metro area I will tell you this.

YOU WILL LOVE TRAINING AT ASYMMETRIC.


It’s worth a long drive, there are nice, inexpensive motels near the facility. I can easily see a group of buds making a day trip to the area to participate in a weekend long training experience.

Check out Asymmetric’s web site:

http://www.asymmetricsolutionsusa.com/civilian

Check out the classes they offer. Seriously, guys, do yourself a favor and take their fundamental classes, first, you will NOT regret it and you WILL learn a LOT.

If all you have done is punched holes in paper, your mind will be blown, totally, by how much you will learn.

OK, there you go guys.

Norman
08-10-13, 22:31
How many rounds did you shoot in this class?
After looking at their site, all the classes seem to be 1 day. What are your thoughts on one day classes as opposed to the 2-5 day classes most other schools offer?

ptmccain
08-11-13, 07:50
How many rounds did you shoot in this class?
After looking at their site, all the classes seem to be 1 day. What are your thoughts on one day classes as opposed to the 2-5 day classes most other schools offer?

That's a good question, but since I'm not in a position to evaluate what "most other schools offer" since I have not hit the lottery yet to afford the pleasure of taking courses/classes from "most other schools", I can simply say that Asymmetric follows a very well thought through skill development process as you take their various classes, on various platforms, for example, here is the progression that builds skills. I've put an asterisk next to the classes I've taken. Each one builds on the last and I have found this teaching method very helpful.

Basics of Tactical Shooting *

Combat Pistol 1 *

Combat Pistol 2 *

Combat Pistol 3 *

Combat Carbine Level 1 *

Combat Carbine Level 2 *

Close Quarter Combat – Carbine and Pistol *

Two-Man Team Tactics – Pistol and Carbine or Shotgun

Low Light/No Light Combatives – Pistol and Carbine or Shotgun

Structure Defense – Pistol and Carbine or Shotgun

Travel in Hostile Areas/Basic Escape and Evasion (2 Day)

Norman
08-11-13, 08:54
How many rounds did you shoot?

ptmccain
08-11-13, 09:15
How many rounds did you shoot?

It was CQB in a large shoothouse, so not too many, around 200? Pistol? around 100.

Frankly, if you run a CQB live fire exercise blazing away, you are definitely going to cause somebody to have a very bad day.

In my carbine and pistol classes I generally bring around 500 rounds and end up shooting up most of it.

Norman
08-11-13, 17:20
Thanks
I’m seriously considering a class there. In the basic pistol and carbine classes, approximately how many students and what was the instructor to student ratio?

ptmccain
08-11-13, 17:30
Thanks
I’m seriously considering a class there. In the basic pistol and carbine classes, approximately how many students and what was the instructor to student ratio?


Much depends on the class.

The beginner classes can have up to 16 people and they have two instructors.

The more advanced classes are smaller classes. It's kind of luck of the draw.

My Combat Pistol 2 class had four people in it.

I'd advise you to contact them for further questions/info.

You will enjoy the classes.

Be sure to bring:

Plenty of water/hydration.
Camp chair of some kind.
Lunch.
Plenty of water/hydration.
Two firearms, one for back up.
Basic cleaning/lubing kit.
AMMO: you will need 300 rounds or so for carbine and/or pistol.

BUG SPRAY if you go in the summer time. Good old Missouri chigger time.

Oh, plenty of hydration.

Bring anything you want to shoot when the class is over. The instructors let you shoot to your hearts content on the range, and there is nothing like shooting steel with rifles.

In other words, if you take a pistol class, bring your AR, or if you take the AR class, be sure to bring your handgun.

Good holster, etc. etc.

Hope that helps.

Trajan
08-11-13, 19:24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZftzk9pWeM

Same class?

Norman
08-11-13, 21:42
I'm well aquainted with ticks and chiggers:)
Thanks.

C45P312
08-11-13, 23:17
Ok so this as a 1-day CQB course? You also mentioned that the first thing you did was review the basics of room clearing. Is there another class that you attended there that did room clearing?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZftzk9pWeM

Same class?

I can see why they have the 4th largest shoot house now.

ptmccain
08-12-13, 06:29
Yes, we learned basic principles of room/house clearing in Combat Carbine 2, and Combat Pistol 2.

Prairie Patriot
09-11-13, 19:42
I've been looking at this facility for the past few months now. You've convinced me to go ahead and do it. Although, I'm going to have to wait until the spring.

Thanks for the report!

thompsonkrav
07-21-14, 11:44
I'm organizing a private class and have some questions. Email sent ptmccain.

ptmccain
07-21-14, 15:18
Responded via PM

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Arctic1
07-22-14, 09:59
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZftzk9pWeM

Same class?

Some pretty bad flagging going on there....

ptmccain
07-22-14, 10:03
This has been beaten to death by the Internet Ninjas.

Fisheye lens, distorted views, and people who know jack-schmidt about real world CQB commenting and criticizing trained professionals.

The kind of idiotic comments from couch commandos and Internet ninjas.

In the real world people get flagged , that is why trigger discipline and using the safety properly is number one safety rule.



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Grizzly16
07-22-14, 10:20
This has been beaten to death by the Internet Ninjas.

Fisheye lens, distorted views, and people who know jack-schmidt about real world CQB commenting and criticizing trained professionals.

The kind of idiotic comments from couch commandos and Internet ninjas.

In the real world people get flagged , that is why trigger discipline and using the safety properly is number one safety rule.



Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

Was that video using simuntion or real ammo?

You can call lens distortion or web-ninja all you want. But at the end when the camera man points his head at a the guy with a rifle with nothing but a hat on is stupid if that is live ammo. I've seen and helped with a lot of cqb training. Live ammo + flagging is not something I've ever seen someone go "Oh that happens in real life so its OK" over.

ptmccain
07-22-14, 10:25
Sorry, I am not participating in another derpfest on this.

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Arctic1
07-22-14, 12:01
This has been beaten to death by the Internet Ninjas.

Fisheye lens, distorted views, and people who know jack-schmidt about real world CQB commenting and criticizing trained professionals.

The kind of idiotic comments from couch commandos and Internet ninjas.

In the real world people get flagged , that is why trigger discipline and using the safety properly is number one safety rule.



Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

How much time do you have in a military or LE capacity?
How much time do you have on deployment?
What is your background wrt SUT?
What is your background with regards to MOUT/FIBUA/CQB?

I think you should thread carefully when calling people internet ninjas or couch commandos.

And no, flagging is NOT acceptable. This was not "real world" either, it was a training event.

Honestly, there was quite a bit of fail with that video, both technique-wise and safety wise.

Jim D
07-24-14, 11:35
This has been beaten to death by the Internet Ninjas.

Fisheye lens, distorted views, and people who know jack-schmidt about real world CQB commenting and criticizing trained professionals.

The kind of idiotic comments from couch commandos and Internet ninjas.

In the real world people get flagged , that is why trigger discipline and using the safety properly is number one safety rule.

This from the guy who said in his second post that he's never trained with anyone else... yet did 5-man clears in a 1 day CQB class for civilians.


Sorry, I am not participating in another derpfest on this.

Well it sounds like you participated in one "derpfest" already so I can see why it'd be getting old.