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moonshot
08-11-13, 15:42
I am seeking an opinion. There is no "right" answer, and while my searches have provided some guidance, they have not really addressed my specific question.

I currently carry a 642-1 as a sometimes second gun in an ankle rig (preferred) or pocket hoslter (if wearing shorts). If I cannot wear a covering top garment I will carry the 642-1 as an only gun (again ankle carry if in long pants and pocket if necessary).

I am looking to buy another snubby to be used as a training gun (with annual use of about 3,000 + rounds per year spread over 4 people. Mostly standard pressure rounds, with an occasional cylinder or two of my carry round: GD 135gr +p).

Could also be a carry gun if necessary (primary 642-1 takes a dump) or I replace my G26 IWB. Snubby's seem to carry and hide better, and there is something about a revolver that I really like, especially a 3", and I have been giving this option some consideration.

Buying another airweight is the least costly option. I could actually buy two for the cost of one of my other options. Handling would be identical to the snubby's that each of us currently have.

Buying an all steel snubby (640-1, 640 Pro, SP101 DAO) would give us an easier gun to train with and a more durable gun to shoot hard. The option to shoot magnums is not a significant plus as I do not envision ever using magnums in them. If I select the SP101, I can also get a 3" barrel (although I would need to send it out to be converted to DAO).

The biggest advanntage of another airweight is in ease of carry and options for location of carry. The disadvantage would be less useful for extended training sessions (say a 500 round snubby class) and less durable overall.

The biggest advantage of the all steel snubby is it's a better choice when taking classes, or even on extended range sessions, and it's a more durable platform, offering extended service life. The disadvantage is it's heavier and bigger, making ankle carry less comfortable and pocket carry impractical (not impossible, but impractical).

The all steel snubby would seem to be most at home with IWB. Ankle carry is do-able with a better holster, but I envision not as comfortable for all day carry. Pocket carry might be an option if absolutely necessary, but not something to be preferred. If pocket carry is a real need, an airweight would seem to be the better choice.

My question - is what you gain in going to an all steel snubby (shootability and durability) worth what you give up (ease of carry and carry options), or is one better off with multiple airweights for training and carry? After all, a GD 135gr +p out of a 1 7/8" 642-1 should be just as effective as the same round fired from a 2/1/8" 640 or even a 3" SP101.

SPDGG
08-11-13, 15:57
If you are looking for a snub-in for the 642 you currently carry for training, I'd get another 642/442. Match up the weight, recoil, etc. to your carry.

All steel might technically get you more mileage, but seeing " Greg Bell's " thread Im not sure if its worth folking over more for the unknown.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=113852

Not to be all keyboard-fu, but as they say: train like you fight ;)

SPDGG
08-11-13, 16:00
fwiw, to add:

My G26 could never replace my J Frame . . . . My J frame could never replace my G26 :)

gtmtnbiker98
08-11-13, 18:27
Get a 640.

SeriousStudent
08-11-13, 18:54
I was trying to make the same decision a few years ago that you face now. Okay, it was a lot more than a few years ago. ;)

I picked up a used stainless Model 60 2-inch in .357, and I got it as a heavy duty training gun to backup my 642. It's very durable, has much better sights than the 642, and is more accurate as well. I'll probably never wear it out, shooting the same .38 Gold Dots you use in it.

And after 10 years of owning it, I feel that I made the wrong choice.

If I had it to do over again, I'd get a second 642 without the lock, put a Apex Tactical action kit in both, and put a pair of Crimson Trace 405 laser grips on both. I am told there's a front sight somewhere on the front barrel, and I put some orange paint on the teeny little stub that resembles one.

It just boils down to weight, as you have mentioned. I never carry the Model 60. It just does not work at all as a pocket gun. If it has to go on the belt, I'd rather have a G19 or G17. So the 642 is always a pocket gun. It's in my left front pocket right now, as a matter of fact.

I have a G26 as well, but honestly, it only gets carried to church. It's a spare gun carried in my blazer to arm a good guy.

If you ever do decide to get rid of a 642 with no lock, you will likely not have an issue doing so. I bet you can get the spare 642 and one, possibly both sets of CT grips for the price of a 640 Pro.

My two not very shiny cents. You asked a very good question, I hope this was helpful.

moonshot
08-11-13, 21:33
I agree that if pocket carry is what is wanted, an air weight is the way to go. However, the second snubby I buy will be a training gun (whether all steel or air weight) leaving my carry 642 free from the heavy range use.

At first I planned on another 642 - one for carry and one for training. As we moved into summer and I had to wear tucked in shirts and no covering garment to work, I found I could not carry my primary G26 and was relying on my 642 on my ankle as an only gun. I did not like this. I have not yet found a way to carry my G26 without a covering garment, but I have played around a bit and believe I can carry a small revolver in a tuckable holster or Smart Carry holster with ease, comfort, and concealment.

The Smart Carry actually lets me carry my G26 totally concealed, but it's not the most comfortable for long periods, particularly seated, and I wouldn't want to get into a hands-on situation while wearing one.

I thought a snubby, with its thinner tapered grip and tapered barrel, would conceal far better in a tuckable kydex holster than even a small PM9-sized auto. This is when I started to ask myself that if I was going to carry one 642 on my ankle and a 2nd snubby IWB / AIWB, maybe it should be an all steel snubby for better shoot-ability and durability, perhaps going to a 3" barrel for range and accuracy.

The air weight makes more sense from the standpoint of cost, weight, and performance (ammo count, caliber, and barrel length is essentially identical to the heavier all-steel alternatives). It's just the ease of training that the all steel guns offer (I am taking a snubby class this fall and it will entail a lot of rounds in one day), plus the reported durability limitations of the aluminum air weights has me concerned. Greg Bell's excellent thread not withstanding, I can see putting several thousand rounds down range each year, and I would prefer a gun that could handle this load for several years of use.

The 640 Pro is quite expensive, but a 640-1 is reasonably priced, and the SP101 (especially 2" DAO) is not much more than a 642-1. It comes down to how I plan on carrying it. If I want to keep the option open to ankle and pocket carry, I need another air weight. If it's only for IWB and range/training use, the all steel may make more sense.

I actually may end up with both - one 642 to carry on my ankle, one to carry IWB (when necessary), and an all steel snubby for training. I was just hoping to avoid having to buy two right now.

SeriousStudent
08-11-13, 21:59
It's like you are reading my mind. :D

And I'm not saying that as a smartasstic remark. It's almost eerie for me to read your thought process.

I do think just about any decision you make will be a good one. How many folks will (A) get training on a snubbie and (B) shoot that much? You are already way ahead of the curve in both of those respects.

There are a ton of people that pocket carry a small revolver in the summer. I'm one of those people.

I'd be very interested to read what lessons you pick up from the class this fall. Even if you don't want to do an AAR, I'd be very eager to pick your brain about the class when you are done with it.

Please let us know what you eventually end up with.

Pi3
08-11-13, 22:33
Exactly duplicate the Smith that you have. You'll spend so much on the ammo required to wear the Gun out that the cost of a third Gun will be insignificant.

moonshot
08-11-13, 23:33
The class is scheduled for Oct 19th. Will need approx 600 rounds of ammo (I expect a little less, as these classes almost never end up using all the rounds listed). I am hoping my daughters will join me, as they are both proficient with a snubby, but that remains to be seen. I'll be happy to share what ever I can when I have completed the class.

walkin' trails
08-12-13, 06:45
See if you can find an original 640 - no dash in .38 special. They're virtually identical to the 642, but with steel frames. They don't make them anymore and may be priced more expensively than they used to be, but you still should be able to find one priced lower than the options you mentioned.

glocktogo
08-12-13, 08:58
If you're looking for a straight up training gun that can be pressed into service for CCW, get a steel frame that as closely duplicates your alloy carry gun as possible. Shooting a snubby well is all about presentation and trigger control. Punishing your hand and arm with repeated firing of standard and +P loads in a short time frame out of a lightweight gun doesn't do anything to reinforce shooting fundamentals and for most people, is detrimental.

I've pocket and ankle carried a 442 in the past, but I don't like pocket carry to begin with. My backup ankle gun is now a G-26 in a Galco Ankle Glove and it does everything better than my 442 in a Renegade did previously. For pocket carry, I very much prefer my Kel-Tek P-32, due to weight and size. I still occasionally carry my 3" S&W 66-4 with boot grips IWB. It conceals far better than any flat gun I own and I shoot it well.

Only you can decide what will work, but I'll bet your daughters would appreciate some recoil reduction for classes.

moonshot
08-12-13, 10:40
I agree that training with several hundred rounds in one day through an air weight is probably not the smartest way to learn and retain good habits. This is one reason I began considering an all steel snubby as soon as I signed up for the class.

My G26 is carried IWB (C-Tac). Very comfortable, but not very hidden when I try using the holster as a tuckable. It needs a covering garment. Therefore, not a great choice for summertime work (tucked in polo shirt, no jacket). I've tried to carry my G26 in an ankle holster (Alessi and Fobus), but found it printed too much with the pants I was wearing, and the GAP floor plates would occasionally catch on the pant material when I pulled the pant leg up for presentation.

My 642 hides and feels great in my Fobus ankle rig, but I am not comfortable when it's my only gun. I too do not like pocket carry, so I am looking for a gun that hides well in a tuckable IWB or A-IWB, and the small revolver seems to fit this requirement well. Even a 3" should carry and hide well. A 2" 640-1 or SP101, while too heavy for pocket carry, would be a great training gun as well as a great IWB primary (when I can't carry my G26). My 642 would stay on my ankle (long pants) or pocket (shorts).

I like the versatility of the 642 (I can carry it almost anywhere), but as I stated earlier, I worry about it's durability to withstand a lot of shooting and it may not be the smartest choice for training.

I am curious to learn more about your experience with the Keltec P32. I had an early P3AT, but sold it due to peening of the slide and more recoil than I felt the power generated was worth. My air weight with +p's kicked far less. I am also not a fan of the 380.

I see no advantage in a P32 except in one situation - would my daughters carry one as an only gun when they might leave their 642 home? I had planned on buying them each a 642 as an 18th birthday present. They have shot mine and are spooky good with it. It's small and light, but is it small and light enough for a young woman to have pretty much all the time? This assumes they go for their CCW at their earliest opportunity.

I would prefer they carry the J-frame, but then I would prefer they carry a squad of Marines too.

glocktogo
08-12-13, 11:10
I agree that training with several hundred rounds in one day through an air weight is probably not the smartest way to learn and retain good habits. This is one reason I began considering an all steel snubby as soon as I signed up for the class.

My G26 is carried IWB (C-Tac). Very comfortable, but not very hidden when I try using the holster as a tuckable. It needs a covering garment. Therefore, not a great choice for summertime work (tucked in polo shirt, no jacket). I've tried to carry my G26 in an ankle holster (Alessi and Fobus), but found it printed too much with the pants I was wearing, and the GAP floor plates would occasionally catch on the pant material when I pulled the pant leg up for presentation.

My 642 hides and feels great in my Fobus ankle rig, but I am not comfortable when it's my only gun. I too do not like pocket carry, so I am looking for a gun that hides well in a tuckable IWB or A-IWB, and the small revolver seems to fit this requirement well. Even a 3" should carry and hide well. A 2" 640-1 or SP101, while too heavy for pocket carry, would be a great training gun as well as a great IWB primary (when I can't carry my G26). My 642 would stay on my ankle (long pants) or pocket (shorts).

I like the versatility of the 642 (I can carry it almost anywhere), but as I stated earlier, I worry about it's durability to withstand a lot of shooting and it may not be the smartest choice for training.

I am curious to learn more about your experience with the Keltec P32. I had an early P3AT, but sold it due to peening of the slide and more recoil than I felt the power generated was worth. My air weight with +p's kicked far less. I am also not a fan of the 380.

I see no advantage in a P32 except in one situation - would my daughters carry one as an only gun when they might leave their 642 home? I had planned on buying them each a 642 as an 18th birthday present. They have shot mine and are spooky good with it. It's small and light, but is it small and light enough for a young woman to have pretty much all the time? This assumes they go for their CCW at their earliest opportunity.

I would prefer they carry the J-frame, but then I would prefer they carry a squad of Marines too.

While I prefer the power of a .38+P, the P-32 is a complete pussycat compared to the P3AT. The recoil isn't even comparable. It's noticeably smaller and lighter than the P3At when comparing them fully loaded. I'm also more accurate with the P-32 than I was with the 442. As a matter of fact, I once shot a full IDPA match with the P-32 and came in 18th overall out of 42 and tied a local PD firearms instructor for lowest points dropped (if you're going to shoot someone with a .32ACP, placement is critical). FWIW, I never carry the P-32 as a primary, just a 2nd gun.

If your daughters are really accurate with a 642, it's a tougher choice. I can carry my G-26 in a Don Hume IWB and it prints long before the 3" 66 does in a Lobo Leather IWB. Body type for your daughters is going to play a significant role in carry options on the body. I never recommend off body carry, but it's the only way some women will carry. I'd rather see them carrying in a holster purse than not at all. In that case, stepping up to at least a compact semi like the G-19 is a better choice.

moonshot
08-28-13, 09:26
A brief update: I have decided to relagate my current 642 to range gun status. It has seen fairly heavy use (although nothing like Greg Bell's 642 in his excellent post), and will be tasked with training for anyone seeking to get time on an airweight. Hopefully, that will include myself, my daughters and my wife. I expect it to be shot a lot, but shot over time (not a lot at any one session).

I plan on replacing it with a 2nd 642-1 for carry only. I'll test it with 50 to 100 rounds for function and that's it. If I shoot it after that it's because I needed it.

I have not settled on a specific model gun for heavy training. It will be an all steel snubby, but whether S&W or Ruger, 2" or 3", I don't know. I do know it will be DAO, as I may carry it IWB / A-IWB when I can't carry my G26. I am open to suggestions.

CAVDOC
09-02-13, 21:24
I shoot and carry an all steel model 36. I don't notice the weight carrying but it makes the gun much more comfortable to shoot. In my local shop I could walk in and they have 20 or so used j frames. 2&3 Inch any time. Get an old beater and have at it

99thin
09-12-13, 00:14
very useful information. thanks a lot for this.

SteveS
09-12-13, 16:42
I shoot and carry an all steel model 36. I don't notice the weight carrying but it makes the gun much more comfortable to shoot. In my local shop I could walk in and they have 20 or so used j frames. 2&3 Inch any time. Get an old beater and have at it
I have a 442 and a mod 60 both snubbies and load that are o.k. with the 60 are @#%#@ that a hot load on the 442.

thopkins22
09-12-13, 17:23
So have you worked the math on how many rounds are considered to be nearing the point of wearing one out and the cost of that ammunition compared to the price of the gun?

I have no idea how many that is...I'm not a revolver guy(yet.) But what I'm saying is that it likely shouldn't factor in to your decision as much as the other factors.

ETA:Just saw that you'd posted an update and this is moot...figure I'll leave it here anyway.

moonshot
09-30-13, 23:08
Update #2...

My Oct snubby class is fast approaching. In preparation I've been hitting the range with my "new" range snubby - my old 642. I've replaced the stock boot grip with Hogue Monogrips, and they make a world of difference. So much so that I am seriously considering using this setup for my upcoming class rather than buying an all steel snubby.

The light weight of the 642 will make shooting the class more of a challange, but it's the same model of gun I would be carrying, so that is a plus, and the monogrips coupled with standard pressure rounds has not yet caused any undue discomfort.

An all steel 640 or SP would be nice, but at $750 for the Smith and $600 for the Ruger, well I am not independantly wealthy.

I've still got about two weeks to change my mind, but I expect I'll have my airweight along for the ride when I leave for the class. I am looking forward to writing a review.

williejc
10-01-13, 01:41
Get another 642, which will last long enough. Anyway, in the long run, we'll all be dead.

youreacrab
10-01-13, 20:00
Get another 642. Better match for training and can use it as a straight swap backup.

moonshot
10-26-13, 20:46
Sorry this update has taken so long to write. I've been very busy with work and family. I completed that snubby class last week, and I would like to offer a brief AAR.

The class was held at Denny Reichard's Sand Burr Gun Ranch in Rochester, IN. Denny is a retired LEO who has forgot more about Smith & Wesson revolvers than most will ever know. I've trained with him in the past, and seen him work a model 29 with full house .44mags. Impressive doesn't cover it.

In this class, he geared it towards beginners. That was fine with me as I had never carried a snubby before, and never owned a J-frame before. I had trained with an SP101 (the original .38 version) many many years ago. I actually shot LFI-1 with that SP101, but all my shooting since then has been with semi-autos, so it had been a long time since I had any formal revolver training. A beginners class was just fine.

As it was, most everyone else in the class seemed to be in my boat - not unfamiliar with handguns, but unfamiliar with snubbys.

Class was restricted to 3" barrels or less. Most had versions of J-frames. I had my 642. There was an old 640 in .38 only, a 3" mod 60, several variations of bodyguard, multiple LCRs and one S&W with an 8-shot cylinder (not sure of the model).

We spent some time going over grip and stance, but not much time. Most already knew how to hold their gun, although I believe there was one female student who was a novice and received special attention.

We shot dominant and non-dominant hand, and two handed from 7 to 15 yards. Multiple reloads with speed loaders were practiced. We shot a modified qualifier of 48 rounds. Possible score of 240, which several students achived. I pulled a few and only shot a 237. I blame it on the wind.

After we all qualified, we shot a scenario where we faced 3 targets at 3 yards. We were to stand at the ready position and at the buzzer we were to engage each target as fast as we could, with one round per target, while getting COM hits. I managed a 0.9 sec time on both of my attemps, with hits in the X-ring of a B29.

We also did some man-on-man competition, with two of us facing 7 peper poppers. Shooter on the left went for the left 3, shooter on the right going for the right 3, and the first to hit all their targerts then going for the center. Shots were from the 10 yard line.

Finally, just to prove to us it could be done, we went to the rifle range and took turns shooting a steel target at 25 yards, then 50 yards, and finally at 100 yards. I didn't hit on every shot, but I did hit. It can be done.

What really impressed me was how versatile the 2" snubby really was. I spent a lot of time prior to the class debating on buying an all steel snubby just for training. Many have said that shooting an airweight in a class environment was brutal and would detract from my ability to learn. We shot about 250 rounds (not a lot), but I had absolutely no trouble with grip, blisters, sore hands, etc.

I used standard loads and I equipped my 642 with Hogue monogrips. It made shooting the 642 a pleasant experience. I may still buy an all steel snubby. I had forgot how much fun shooting a wheel gun could be, but I don't believe it is necessary for training.

It's true that the snubby I shot in the class was not like the snubby I carry (Hogue Grip vs Uncle Mike's Boot Grip), but then again, I don't know anyone who would take a training class and shoot nothing but GD 135gr +p's, so I am OK with what I did.

Denny offers many different training classes, and hosts some top shelf instructors. If you're not too far from north central IN, you should check them out.

SeriousStudent
10-26-13, 21:04
Very interesting, and thanks very much for taking the time to post that.

Can you tell us a little bit about his thoughts regarding reloads? Speedloaders versus speedstrips?

Definitely not asking you to reveal the recipe for anyone's secret sauce, as they need to earn a living. But capacity and reloads are often listed as the greatest negative of a J-frame. So tools to overcome that are always welcome.

This has been a most interesting thread. I always enjoy watching a thought process unfold, it's often helpful to many more folks than just the OP.

moonshot
10-26-13, 22:09
We didn't really discuss the "are 5 rounds enough" topic. It's been said before, and Denny repeated it - when those who carry guns for a living get together, the one gun that is almost always on them is some form of snubby. When Glocks and 1911s and M&Ps are left in the glove compartment, the snubby is on an ankle or in a pocket.

This is why he created this class.

He did not harp about reloads, but did stress that 5 rounds really wasn't all that much, and a reload was not a bad idea. Two is better. Speed loaders or speed strips - he didn't seem to care, but I suspect he prefers speed loaders. He proceeded to explain the advantags of each and the techniques of using each.

He later related an interesting story (he is gifted story teller). It was not really a practical guide to use of revolvers, just an interesting aside, but still one that does have some merrit.

Denny told us of a test he and another LEO, armed with revolvers, did against two LEOs armed with semi-autos. The objective was to maintain returned fire at the target, reloading as necessary, for as long as they could. The semi-auto officers could stay in the fight longer without reloading, the revolvers guys obviously reloading more often. What was interesting was that the semi-auto officers were soon silent, having exhausted their mags. The revolver guys kept fireing.

He stated that as long as he has rounds in his pockets he can keep fireing. Keep in mind that most are not at his level of training. He is at a level where he could place 6 shots COM, reload, and place another 6 shots COM while the rest of us were still wetting our pants.

We really did not get into revolver advantages, or even J-frame advantages. He is an ardent S&W fan, a huge revolver fan (he sells semi-autos, but he doesn't carry them), and a proponent of J-frames. I suspect a longer class, or some time over dinner and drinks would lead to several interesting stories and tidbits of information well worth the price of admission, but this class was both too short and not at that level.

SeriousStudent
10-26-13, 22:15
Thank you, that is interesting.

I enjoy having a meal with retired cops or military. Almost every funny story has a lesson in it, if you think about what they are saying.

Maybe that's how they got to be retired, eh? ;)

The Dumb Gun Collector
10-26-13, 22:56
When Glocks and 1911s and M&Ps are left in the glove compartment, the snubby is on an ankle or in a pocket.

The truth

moonshot
10-27-13, 00:00
One thing I did notice was that while the snubby is far more versatile than I had thought, it is a lot easier to use with the oversized Hogue grips rather than the smaller boot grips.

I realize this is a "no dah" statement, but what I mean is that the hand filling Hogue makes my hand fit the gun much better. I have to change my grip with the boot grips or my trigger finger will get blocked by my support hand thumb. I ran into this same situation with my Kahr PM9.

It's something I need to get used to.

SeriousStudent
10-27-13, 00:21
A long time ago (more years than I really care to think about) I had a J-frame with a Barami Hip Grip and Tyler T-grip adapter.

It was small, but adequately filled the hand. You could also easily place the pistol into your waistband.

I think a huge part of it boils down to the structure of your hand. I have relatively shorter metacarpals and phalanges. So my hands have a correspondingly narrower palm.

A "no dah" moment for me as well. Boot grips fit me pretty well. But I started out using a larger grip, and switched to the smaller ones with better results.

And now, years later, arthritis and accumulated injuries have me going back to larger grips. So hang onto that stuff. You may want it later.

walkin' trails
10-27-13, 10:37
Very good review and glad to hear your 642 ran all the way for you. Too many folks, kniwlwdgeable or otherwise tend to dismiss the five shot Smith cause of it's capacity and short barrel, but in the hands of an expert (or lucky novice) has proven it's self too many times. From accounts I've read, and people I've talked to, I would suggest that the majority of times when a five shot missed the mark was when it was weilded by someone who "thought" they knew what they were doing rather than someone who trained with the piece at least occasionally. I originally dismissed Hogue Bantam grips until I finally tried them, found they do work pretty well considering how small they are, and now have them on all three of my Js. Good idea to get a steel frame to play with too. You won't wish you hadn't.

ST911
10-27-13, 12:02
We didn't really discuss the "are 5 rounds enough" topic. It's been said before, and Denny repeated it - when those who carry guns for a living get together, the one gun that is almost always on them is some form of snubby. When Glocks and 1911s and M&Ps are left in the glove compartment, the snubby is on an ankle or in a pocket.

True words.


Denny told us of a test he and another LEO, armed with revolvers, did against two LEOs armed with semi-autos. The objective was to maintain returned fire at the target, reloading as necessary, for as long as they could. The semi-auto officers could stay in the fight longer without reloading, the revolvers guys obviously reloading more often. What was interesting was that the semi-auto officers were soon silent, having exhausted their mags. The revolver guys kept fireing.

I get the point of the exercise, I don't think it's a very useful one. Autos will rarely lose an ammo dumping contest, but rate and volume of return fire is dictated by target actions and availability.


We really did not get into revolver advantages, or even J-frame advantages. He is an ardent S&W fan, a huge revolver fan (he sells semi-autos, but he doesn't carry them), and a proponent of J-frames. I suspect a longer class, or some time over dinner and drinks would lead to several interesting stories and tidbits of information well worth the price of admission, but this class was both too short and not at that level.

Masters and veterans of combative revolver usage are dwindling, and with them our knowledge base. We need to make every effort to capture it while it's still there, else we have to relearn it all again the hard way.

Thanks for sharing the info.

CDR_Glock
01-24-14, 21:51
Great thread. Your rationale for snubbies lead me to a similar conclusion. I ended up sticking with my 442 and getting a 640, also. They're more accurate than most people give credit.

Denali
01-27-14, 23:08
My question - is what you gain in going to an all steel snubby (shootability and durability) worth what you give up (ease of carry and carry options), or is one better off with multiple airweights for training and carry? After all, a GD 135gr +p out of a 1 7/8" 642-1 should be just as effective as the same round fired from a 2/1/8" 640 or even a 3" SP101.

The all steel guns will shoot more comfortably, and likely that will translate into superior accuracy coupled with faster follow-up shos, as to durability, so what, all S&W revolvers carry a lifetime warranty.

uffdaphil
01-28-14, 06:47
Great report. I too was surprised how accurate my 642 and 3" 36-1 are. My only carp is with reloading. I'm terrible with speed strips and speedloader won't line up with cylinder. Is there a specific loader for the J-frame? Or certain thin grips that work?

ImBroke
01-28-14, 13:42
Yes, there are specific speedloaders for the J frames but in general the bullets don't go as far into the cylinder on the 5 shot guns as the larger frame guns it seems. The HKS work well but when I carried a J frame I used the Safariland models. The release the rounds when you simply push into the cylinder.

QuietOne
01-28-14, 14:42
Yes, there are specific speedloaders for the J frames but in general the bullets don't go as far into the cylinder on the 5 shot guns as the larger frame guns it seems. The HKS work well but when I carried a J frame I used the Safariland models. The release the rounds when you simply push into the cylinder.

There is a fellow name Michael De Bethencourt that does a lot of work and training with snub nosed revolvers. His blog is www.snubtraing.com There is a ton of information on there. I was researching how best to utilize speedstrips last Friday. I usually carry speedloaders but want to try speedstrips for the flatness in the pocket. I think I went through thirty pages on speedloaders and speedstrips on his blog. I haven't had a chance to train with him yet but know quite a few people who think very highly of him. I have trained with Claude Werner and he has reloading a snubby down to a science.

brushy bill
01-28-14, 18:40
His blog is www.snubtraing.com

Small typo there, should be www.snubtraining.com

ST911
01-28-14, 19:17
There is a fellow name Michael De Bethencourt that does a lot of work and training with snub nosed revolvers. His blog is www.snubtraing.com There is a ton of information on there. I was researching how best to utilize speedstrips last Friday. I usually carry speedloaders but want to try speedstrips for the flatness in the pocket. I think I went through thirty pages on speedloaders and speedstrips on his blog. I haven't had a chance to train with him yet but know quite a few people who think very highly of him. I have trained with Claude Werner and he has reloading a snubby down to a science.

AAR for one of Michael's classes here. Highly recommended.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?140643-AAR-Michael-de-Bethencourt-snubtraining-com-Folding-Knife-Snub-Courses-10-11-13-13

QuietOne
01-29-14, 08:31
Masters and veterans of combative revolver usage are dwindling, and with them our knowledge base. We need to make every effort to capture it while it's still there, else we have to relearn it all again the hard way.


This is very true. Most people I talk to in their 30's don't know how to run a revolver efficiently. I would hate to see that kind of knowledge disappear. That was a great AAR, Skintop. I remember reading it a few months ago. Thanks.