View Full Version : Sig MK25, Does anyone have proof of QC
warpedcamshaft
08-12-13, 20:08
I have scoured the internet and heard endless speculation regarding the MK25 and the quality control of the series versus the standard p226's.
In the Special Forces Handguns episode of Tac-TV, Ken Hackathorn mentioned that the MK25 received better quality control. This is what inspired me to look at the MK25, as I may like to pick one up someday... but I have been a bit leery of recent Sigs.
Does anyone have any evidence or documentation that the MK25 that is sold to the masses has superior quality control to the standard P226's?
I DO NOT want to hear endless comments about how various Sigs have worked fine... Thanks for the help.
mrosamilia
08-12-13, 20:13
I have no proof. I do however own 2 of them and they have been flawless and seem to resemble the fit and finish of German Sigs.
JMJ's mk25 was the nicer of his 2 p226s.
By a WIDE margin imo.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2
I have a MK25, haven't shot nearly as much ammo through it as I've liked to due to work. But it is my daily carry, I wouldn't trust anything else (at the moment). The firearm is rock solid, I've never had a jam or malfunction when firing an assortment of ammo through it. She get's dirty, and keeps working.
I have a MK25 P226 Sig and its an awesome gun. Make me shot like a pro and I am far from that! In all seriousness I have had some great shooters, competition guys shoot my MK25 and they all were impressed with this stock gun.
I put a little over 2K rounds through one last year.
Ran like a TOP.
Grand58742
08-13-13, 01:05
Not having owned that specific Sig, but...
I'd say you could take Ken Hackathorn's word as gospel on it. He probably has more knowledge of the firearms industry than most and wouldn't be making a statement like that without having the knowledge to back it up. He's not currently affiliated with Sig (that I'm aware of) so he has no reason to say nice things about one brand over the other.
Take it as you will, but I believe you can trust Ken Hackathorn's unverifiable comments over most people's "facts."
warpedcamshaft
08-13-13, 08:08
I don't take anyone's word as gospel. I understand what you are saying, but I am looking for something to verify or substantiate that the MK25 receives higher quality control testing than a run of the mill p226.
This thread has headed in the exact direction I specifically asked to avoid... people droning on about how their Sig is great.
I would make two phone calls right off the bat. 1.Call Sig to ask them to give you any details they might have on the subject. 2.Call Bruce at Gray Guns and ask him what he knows about it. I believe I called him once concerning a Sig, and he was able to give me a very no nonsense answer on what he liked and didn't like concerning that model, as well as what he could do about it. He was also honest enough to consider steering me away from it all.
Fireman1291
08-13-13, 17:04
The fit and finish seemed a tad more...refined I guess you could say. Next to a P226.
Video on it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfBPl41Yags
beschatten
08-14-13, 07:38
Pffft. I doubt a Sig rep would be upfront about anything.
If you call Bruce Gray or get any information on this subject, mind passing it along in this thread/post? I've always wanted to get back into Sigs or a DA/SA platform but it just seems like gambling a grand with the newer NH made models.
My understanding of the current situation is the machining quality has slightly diminished, and the internals have been out-sourced to some booger-eating country. No gripes with MIM, but they're doing it wrong if shit's breaking in a few thousand rounds.
If the MK25 gets different parts or treatment I'll bite the grand.
I have scoured the internet and heard endless speculation regarding the MK25 and the quality control of the series versus the standard p226's.
In the Special Forces Handguns episode of Tac-TV, Ken Hackathorn mentioned that the MK25 received better quality control. This is what inspired me to look at the MK25, as I may like to pick one up someday... but I have been a bit leery of recent Sigs.
Does anyone have any evidence or documentation that the MK25 that is sold to the masses has superior quality control to the standard P226's?
I DO NOT want to hear endless comments about how various Sigs have worked fine... Thanks for the help.
Typically speak, guns that are going to LE or MIL contracts get more QC. This is true for Glock, S&W and SIG.
C4
There is absolutely no extra care provided to MK25 226's.
beschatten
08-14-13, 08:08
Typically speak, guns that are going to LE or MIL contracts get more QC. This is true for Glock, S&W and SIG.
C4
Rumors have it that MIL&LE have the option to use tool steel internals for some extra cash versus booger-eater made MIM parts?
Rumors have it that MIL&LE have the option to use tool steel internals for some extra cash versus booger-eater made MIM parts?
Could be (don't).
C4
There is absolutely no extra care provided to MK25 226's.
This would makes sense (especially if the guns were NOT designated for a LE/MIL contract).
C4
This would makes sense (especially if the guns were NOT designated for a LE/MIL contract).
C4
The ones that go to NSW/SEAL's don't get any extra care either.
There aren't 2 levels of QC at Sig. Every gun gets the same level of poor QC no matter who it is being made for. Not trying to be sarcastic here. Dead serious.
I worked there for 3 years and some of the crap they made me do to a gun to make it pass would make you sick. That is all I will say on the matter publicly. If you want more info, you can PM me.
warpedcamshaft
08-14-13, 10:58
The ones that go to NSW/SEAL's don't get any extra care either.
There aren't 2 levels of QC at Sig. Every gun gets the same level of poor QC no matter who it is being made for. Not trying to be sarcastic here. Dead serious.
Sig slave clarified his statement after I posted, so please disregard this post.
Thank you for weighing in SigSlave.
The ones that go to NSW/SEAL's don't get any extra care either.
There aren't 2 levels of QC at Sig. Every gun gets the same level of poor QC no matter who it is being made for. Not trying to be sarcastic here. Dead serious.
I worked there for 3 years and some of the crap they made me do to a gun to make it pass would make you sick. That is all I will say on the matter publicly. If you want more info, you can PM me.
I do not doubt you. Another SIG employee did tell me that commercially sold guns weren't even test fired, but LE/MIL contracted guns were.
C4
I do not doubt you. Another SIG employee did tell me that commercially sold guns weren't even test fired, but LE/MIL contracted guns were.
C4
That wasn't the case when I was there. All guns were shot and they would batch test for accuracy.
What you heard could have been true at one point, just not when I was there.
I do not doubt you. Another SIG employee did tell me that commercially sold guns weren't even test fired, but LE/MIL contracted guns were.
C4
That's exactly what I was going to post. Sig isn't the only manufacturer to implement this cost cutting policy. That's what happened when the bean counters have more say than the engineers. :confused:
My MK25 has clear signs of test firing and as far as extra attention. I hate to break to everyone but its laughable to think that anyone outside of custom shops is giving anything special attention.
warpedcamshaft
08-14-13, 21:46
My MK25 has clear signs of test firing and as far as extra attention. I hate to break to everyone but its laughable to think that anyone outside of custom shops is giving anything special attention.
Walther PPQ's come with a test target...
I guess I should ask what do you consider as extra attention? To me that is steps along the manufacturing process.
The fit and finish seemed a tad more...refined I guess you could say. Next to a P226.
Video on it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfBPl41Yags
I really hate these fit and finish comments for some reason. My P226 Navy... not the MK25, but the predecessor, fit together and went bang every time I needed it to. The finish was black... like a lot of other Sigs and it wore off.
I got mine through their LE program and the barrel showed signs of being fired. I had read about the quality control issues for a while, but I wanted to get away from the issued DAK system and old German made Sigs didn't come with rails that I could find, so I went with the Navy model. Never had an issue with it. Now it's just a nightstand gun that has a lot of wear from duty use.
Gary1911A1
08-15-13, 09:25
Walther PPQ's come with a test target...
Sigs did too a long time ago.
I really hate these fit and finish comments for some reason. My P226 Navy... not the MK25, but the predecessor, fit together and went bang every time I needed it to. The finish was black... like a lot of other Sigs and it wore off.
I got mine through their LE program and the barrel showed signs of being fired. I had read about the quality control issues for a while, but I wanted to get away from the issued DAK system and old German made Sigs didn't come with rails that I could find, so I went with the Navy model. Never had an issue with it. Now it's just a nightstand gun that has a lot of wear from duty use.
I hate it too. It is such a generic term usually said by folks who don't know much about gun building or what makes a gun good.
No offense meant to anyone here. The members of this forum are a step or two above the average user.
TacMedic556
04-13-14, 11:10
I had a question regarding the frame markings on the MK25s. The pistol has been out since 2011 and the early versions have a "DE" on the right side near the slide release (this I believe is short for Deutsch). These early versions also say, "Frame made in Germany".
It appears the newer ones do not have these markings but rather only state "Exeter - NH". Any of you Sig guys have some more informaion on this?
I don't particularly care if it gets any "special" attention or not. I did just order a Sig MK25 in Desert Tuesday from http://www.shootersplus.com just because I like them and wanted one for my collection. Can't wait for it to get here.
I don't particularly care if it gets any "special" attention or not. I did just order a Sig MK25 in Desert Tuesday from http://www.shootersplus.com just because I like them and wanted one for my collection. Can't wait for it to get here.
Like this one?
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s7/v152/p24407119-5.jpg
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s4/v64/p87169482-5.jpg
Alaska3006
04-17-14, 15:16
I have scoured the internet and heard endless speculation regarding the MK25 and the quality control of the series versus the standard p226's.
In the Special Forces Handguns episode of Tac-TV, Ken Hackathorn mentioned that the MK25 received better quality control. This is what inspired me to look at the MK25, as I may like to pick one up someday... but I have been a bit leery of recent Sigs.
Does anyone have any evidence or documentation that the MK25 that is sold to the masses has superior quality control to the standard P226's?
I DO NOT want to hear endless comments about how various Sigs have worked fine... Thanks for the help.
The HK MK 25 is one large and heavy pistol.
Suggest the HK tactical compact or regular.......rides better
Or the Tactical P226
That is sexy. Just sexy. Might be the best looking FDE/tan gun going.
The HK MK 25 is one large and heavy pistol.
Suggest the HK tactical compact or regular.......rides better
Or the Tactical P226
Thats the MK.23, this discussion is about the MK.25 a Sig 226 variant.
As to QC, I started another thread with this a while back. But I saw a MK.25 in my LGS. Was going to buy it, but noticed the recoil guide rod did not come flush with the end of the slide. You could see a couple coils of the recoil spring. I am 99% positive it had a P229 recoil guide rod in it. No 229s in their case had a 1/2" of guide rod sticking out so I'm going to guess the rod was grabbed from the wrong bin during assembly and never caught in Sigs QC, or lack there of.
Edit: this thread https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?145664-Sig-Mk-25-guide-rod-length-more-Sig-QC-issues
The civilian mk25's don't get any more special attention or different parts than any other p226 except obviously the frame is different and internal coatings. The .mil guns ship with Mecgar made mags if I remember correctly instead of the garbage checkmate painted mags.
The mk25's are nothing more than a p226 with chrome lined barrel, phosphated internals, and an Anchor on the slide. They should be the same or close to the price of any base model p226r. The only advantage I see to them is the night sights out of the box and the proven short extractor instead of the new long extractor they are trying to implement.
Oh you just had to tease didn't you! Hopefully mine will be here tomorrow.
Like this one?
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s4/v64/p87169482-5.jpg
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s12/v176/p30237353-5.jpg
The civilian mk25's don't get any more special attention
Neither does NSW's...
Fordtough25
04-18-14, 09:16
I'd like a MK 25 myself, had a P226R a few years and had to sell it. I wasn't sure about the DA/SA when I bought it but after several hundred rounds I found that I shot it very nicely. When I get another it will be the MK25 version, for the chrome lined barrel and night sights if nothing else.
The Dumb Gun Collector
04-18-14, 11:13
It seems hard to believe they can sell any regular guns if they are basically saying we have no idea whether this gun will work or not. At least run a few rounds through it Jeeze
QuickStrike
04-18-14, 12:11
Man that Tan one looks really nice. More so without the dorky barcode sticker.
Will eventually get one to go with my black mk 25.
The double action on my current one is pretty nice imo after regular dry firing. E2 grips + short trigger would make it better for my munchkin hands. Kinda wary of the SRT now that I've heard issues with them.
KiloSierra
04-21-14, 04:49
I do not doubt you. Another SIG employee did tell me that commercially sold guns weren't even test fired, but LE/MIL contracted guns were.
C4
Mine definitely was test fired. Came with the spent case for Maryland and whatever other states, brass marks on feed ramp and breach face and powder fouling in the barrel. Every other Sig I've looked at at my local gun shop came the same way but usually much lighter marks and fouling then mine. I highly suspect that they probably only fire one round to get the spent case on most guns though.
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