View Full Version : Did / Does Zues Exist...?
I of course used to scoff at such notions as fanciful tales like people who dismissed Troy and all it's associated mythology for centuries...and then they found it.
So what else did Homer write about that was factual? What about the Gods? What of Zues?
Not sure what to believe, but these stories will make ya think.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/31/did-zeus-exist/?_r=0
The standard line of thought seems to be that we have no evidence at all for his existence and so have every right to deny it. Perhaps there is no current evidence of his existence — certainly no reports of avenging thunderbolts or of attempted seductions, no sightings around Mount Olympus. But back in the day (say, 500-400 B.C.), there would seem to have been considerable evidence, enough in any case to make his reality unquestioned among most members of a rapidly advancing Greek civilization.
Further, as this civilization developed the critical tools of historiography and philosophy, Zeus’s reality remained widely unquestioned. Socrates and Plato criticized certain poetic treatments, which showed Zeus and the gods in an unworthy light. But they never questioned the very existence of the gods, and Socrates regularly followed the dictates of his daimon, a personal divine guide. There were many questions about the true nature of the divine, but few about its existence.
http://timcooley.net/2010/03/30/does-zeus-exist-a-scientific-inquiry/
Moose-Knuckle
08-13-13, 03:19
Ancient man described things they saw. We interpret that as myths, legends, fairytales, et al. If you went back in time and took modern implements, such as a Tasor the primitive people would think you were a God arching bolts of lighting.
There have been thousands of glacier maximums through out the Earth's history, there is the possibility that there were advanced civilizations that have been lost to history; Plato's Atlantis and Lemuria for example. Every now and again we "discover" something that throws out what we learned in history books. The discovery of Göbekli Tepe in 1994 comes to mind.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-13-13, 03:20
Holy Juses, it's Zeus not Zues.
;)
Lots of research in this area.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
If magic dogs which help you in your car repair struggles exist, then Zeus must exist as well.
MountainRaven
08-13-13, 08:51
Of note is that the word 'daimon' is also the word 'daemon'. As in 'demon'. Yes, that demon.
But that sort of demon was considered in the same way as we would today consider a guardian angel. And the idea of an angel was not unknown... they were just considered too hoighty-toighty for mere humans.
Also of note, is that virtually all of modern Christianity was suborned from pagan religions, Greek and Roman especially.
Somethings were simply stolen/borrowed... like egg-laying rabbits and colorfully decorated pine trees.
Others were twisted to serve a new purpose... benign nature spirits became demons of lust and sex - the satyr became the incubus, the nymph became the succubus, &c. (Notice how the Christian demons vary so completely from the ancient Greek daimon.)
Ancient man described things they saw. We interpret that as myths, legends, fairytales, et al. If you went back in time and took modern implements, such as a Tasor the primitive people would think you were a God arching bolts of lighting.
There have been thousands of glacier maximums through out the Earth's history, there is the possibility that there were advanced civilizations that have been lost to history; Plato's Atlanits and Lemuria for example. Every now and again we "discover" something that throws out what we learned in history books. The discovery of Göbekli Tepe in 1994 comes to mind.
I got to thinking... if the dinosaurs had a space program, how would we know?
In the last 65 million years, there haven't just been a succession of ice ages. Continents have shifted thousands of miles. Vast swaths of land have been submerged, risen from the waters, and been submerged again. Parts of the crust have been entirely subsumed beneath other plates and into the mantle.
The most enduring signs of humanity's existence are the Great Pyramids. And they're only a few thousand years old. They are built the best possible way to endure in the best possible place, currently, to endure. What will they look like in a couple million years, assuming no one is around to take care of them?
How long until our roads (which have yet to prove to be any more durable than those of the Romans or the Inca) are barely remembered game trails? Would our cities simply become massive subterranean iron and oil (dead people) deposits? How much of our orbital detritus would remain and for how long?
How long would it be until the only sign that we ever existed are our footprints on the moon? And how long until they, too, fade away?
Civilizations may not have arisen and fallen, to be completely forgotten, for thousands of years or even tens of thousands of years. It may have been doing so for tens of millions of years.*
*Note: There is no evidence for this ever happening. It is just supposition.
Five_Point_Five_Six
08-13-13, 10:06
Please use the search feature before posting new threads. There is literally multiple threads per day on Zeus if you do a search.
I of course used to scoff at such notions as fanciful tales like people who dismissed Troy and all it's associated mythology for centuries...and then they found it.
So what else did Homer write about that was factual? What about the Gods? What of Zues?
Not sure what to believe, but these stories will make ya think.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/31/did-zeus-exist/?_r=0
The standard line of thought seems to be that we have no evidence at all for his existence and so have every right to deny it. Perhaps there is no current evidence of his existence — certainly no reports of avenging thunderbolts or of attempted seductions, no sightings around Mount Olympus. But back in the day (say, 500-400 B.C.), there would seem to have been considerable evidence, enough in any case to make his reality unquestioned among most members of a rapidly advancing Greek civilization.
Further, as this civilization developed the critical tools of historiography and philosophy, Zeus’s reality remained widely unquestioned. Socrates and Plato criticized certain poetic treatments, which showed Zeus and the gods in an unworthy light. But they never questioned the very existence of the gods, and Socrates regularly followed the dictates of his daimon, a personal divine guide. There were many questions about the true nature of the divine, but few about its existence.
http://timcooley.net/2010/03/30/does-zeus-exist-a-scientific-inquiry/
Doc Safari
08-13-13, 10:29
The Bible talks about their being "giants" in the earth in ancient times. I have heard some commentators speculate that the gods of Olympus were actually giants that were worshipped as gods. L.A. Marzulli has a wealth of material that seems to prove giant humans existed in ancient times: it's not something I'm making up out of whole cloth. I believe that before the Biblical flood there was a civilization nearly advanced as ours and that scant traces of it still exist.
For example, the stone structures at Machu Pichu suggest a stone-fitting technology that we have not even begun to duplicate to this day.
Food for thought. Or tinfoil to wrap fish in. You decide.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-13-13, 11:29
For example, the stone structures at Machu Pichu suggest a stone-fitting technology that we have not even begun to duplicate to this day.
The people who couldn't master the wheel, gunpowder or boats over 10 feet long had some beyond our comprehension ability to fit stones... or they couldn't invent cement like the Romans did and where forced to fit the stones like that otherwise their buildings would fall over....
Giants were probably just hunter-gatherers that hadn't been nearly dwarfed by fixed agriculture and the starts of urbanization.
These discussions are fun, but they are the equivalent of cotton candy for the brain.
Doc Safari
08-13-13, 11:49
These discussions are fun, but they are the equivalent of cotton candy for the brain.
The entire title of this thread invited that kind of discussion.
But is there anything wrong with that?
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-13-13, 12:03
Cotton candy is goooood... ;)
Didn't Start Trek explore this idea with Apollo once?
The entire title of this thread invited that kind of discussion.
But is there anything wrong with that?
So this is just cotton candy but an "angel priest" could be real but you just needed more evidence? Certainly there is more evidence in the above links for the existence of Zeus than there was in the original "angel priest" story.
:sarcastic:
Moose-Knuckle
08-13-13, 15:16
I got to thinking... if the dinosaurs had a space program, how would we know?
In the last 65 million years, there haven't just been a succession of ice ages. Continents have shifted thousands of miles. Vast swaths of land have been submerged, risen from the waters, and been submerged again. Parts of the crust have been entirely subsumed beneath other plates and into the mantle.
The most enduring signs of humanity's existence are the Great Pyramids. And they're only a few thousand years old. They are built the best possible way to endure in the best possible place, currently, to endure. What will they look like in a couple million years, assuming no one is around to take care of them?
How long until our roads (which have yet to prove to be any more durable than those of the Romans or the Inca) are barely remembered game trails? Would our cities simply become massive subterranean iron and oil (dead people) deposits? How much of our orbital detritus would remain and for how long?
How long would it be until the only sign that we ever existed are our footprints on the moon? And how long until they, too, fade away?
Civilizations may not have arisen and fallen, to be completely forgotten, for thousands of years or even tens of thousands of years. It may have been doing so for tens of millions of years.*
*Note: There is no evidence for this ever happening. It is just supposition.
Yup, I'm tracking the same . . . the more we advance as a species the more learn how little we really know.
When Pangaea was around we are told there were no humans, how do we know that for sure? We don't.
I would just like to know one day who built Pumapunku and for what purpose. LOL, we cannot even date the site.
When Pangaea was around we are told there were no humans, how do we know that for sure? We don't.
How do we know for sure that the world is more than 150 years old?
How do we know Humans are from Earth?
How do I know that you all actually exist? Maybe you're all just AI responding to me.
How do you know anything for sure? What if the Earth was created 5 minutes ago and all the memories you have were implanted?
For example, the stone structures at Machu Pichu suggest a stone-fitting technology that we have not even begun to duplicate to this day.
This is factually incorrect. Just because we aren't sure how ancient people did it doesn't mean we don't know how to do it better.
A classic example is Greek Fire. No idea what the Greeks specifically used to make it. There are quite a few candidates, but no evidence to show which method was actually used. Regardless of what the actual unknown Greek recipe was, napalm is superior.
Doc Safari
08-13-13, 15:21
So this is just cotton candy but an "angel priest" could be real but you just needed more evidence? Certainly there is more evidence in the above links for the existence of Zeus than there was in the original "angel priest" story.
:sarcastic:
Anything that can't be proven and ends up being a vehicle for stimulating speculation is cotton candy.
I was hoping that the angel priest story was a genuine example of paranormal phenomena. I have read plenty of other instances where the interloper was never found, or was somehow "different" than a mere human interloper could be. The angel priest story just didn't pan out as far as a paranormal phenomenon.
For comparison, Google a subject like "black eyed children" for evidence of what appears to be a widespread phenomenon.
For a really intellectually baffling experience, read David Paulides' three books titled "Missing: 411". He refuses to come to conclusions, but SOMETHING is causing mysterious disappearances of people in our national parks. Some of the disappearances have common elements (like the people were often picking berries) that defy rational explanations.
As to Zeus, I am convinced that the Olympus myth is either the ancient Greek equivalent of our TV culture (i.e. the ancients sort of 'Nod nod wink wink' knew their religion was not true), or Zeus and his fellow Olympians actually existed and were either giants, extraterrestrials, or demonic manifestations, or something.
For example, think how silly it is for people to pray to "gods" carved out of word or stone. Imagine, though, that demonic entities were able to "possess" and speak through those statues to deceive the believers and cause them to think their "gods" were authentic. Now it's not so silly.
So, yes, Zeus could very well exist....but only as a deception put forth by seducing spirits.
Thought you had me, didn't ya, cowboy. :D
Moose-Knuckle
08-13-13, 15:22
The Bible talks about their being "giants" in the earth in ancient times.
Ah yes the Nephilim, it was not just Judeo Christian texts that talk about such beings on Earth. Dotted around the globe there are many oral traditions, myths, et al. about giants.
Moose-Knuckle
08-13-13, 15:27
How do we know for sure that the world is more than 150 years old??
Science.
How do we know Humans are from Earth??
We don't, even the secular crowd speculate that rocks from space had organisms in them crashed to Earth and started the ball rolling on evolution.
How do I know that you all actually exist? Maybe you're all just AI responding to me.?
You don't, and maybe we are.
How do you know anything for sure? What if the Earth was created 5 minutes ago and all the memories you have were implanted?
That would be pretty boring.
Ah yes the Nephilim, it was not just Judeo Christian texts that talk about such beings on Earth. Dotted around the globe there are many oral traditions, myths, et al. about giants.
Ancient aliens.
Doc Safari
08-13-13, 15:30
Ancient aliens.
Ancient aliens...or fallen angels shovelling an agenda that involves deception?
L.A. Marzulli, Tom Porter, and Chris Putnam (all authors), among others, believe that the Great Deception predicted by Jesus in the Bible will be demons posing as extraterrestrials that come to earth to deceive mankind into believing that the Bible is wrong and that we were created by aliens to serve them or something like that.
I'm not sure I believe it, but I listed those authors so you can Google their work and do the research yourself.
How do we know for sure that the world is more than 150 years old?
How do we know Humans are from Earth?
How do I know that you all actually exist? Maybe you're all just AI responding to me.
How do you know anything for sure? What if the Earth was created 5 minutes ago and all the memories you have were implanted?
And once again we are back to "theory of big, purple kid."
As every single one of these discussions seems to arrive at Big Purple Kid theory, I'm becoming convinced that this is the actual, correct answer.
Doc Safari
08-13-13, 15:34
And once again we are back to "theory of big, purple kid."
As every single one of these discussions seems to arrive at Big Purple Kid theory, I'm becoming convinced that this is the actual, correct answer.
I am unfamiliar with the "Big Purple Kid" theory; however, I was reading some articles I Googled several weeks ago and some pretty sophisticated science types are coming to believe that the universe has its own "error correction software," as if we really are living in The Matrix and when we die we go to the "real world."
I can't wrap my head around a lot of this stuff, but it's still cool.
Ancient aliens...or fallen angels shovelling an agenda that involves deception?
L.A. Marzulli, Tom Porter, and Chris Putnam (all authors), among others, believe that the Great Deception predicted by Jesus in the Bible will be demons posing as extraterrestrials that come to earth to deceive mankind into believing that the Bible is wrong and that we were created by aliens to serve them or something like that.
I'm not sure I believe it, but I listed those authors so you can Google their work and do the research yourself.
... demons from spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace?
So, yes, Zeus could very well exist....but only as a deception put forth by seducing spirits.
Thought you had me, didn't ya, cowboy. :D
What if all the original Hebrew texts were actually the work of Lucifer, to see if we'd accept a "God" that would destroy almost all life on the planet in an act of displeasure with something he created and actually worship said deity?
What if THAT is the actual test?
What if all the original Hebrew texts were actually the work of Lucifer, to see if we'd accept a "God" that would destroy almost all life on the planet in an act of displeasure with something he created and actually worship said deity?
What if THAT is the actual test?
Sounds legit. I guess I passed.
Doc Safari
08-13-13, 15:38
I predict a future for both of you that involves babbling and drooling on yourselves. :D
I am unfamiliar with the "Big Purple Kid" theory; however, I was reading some articles I Googled several weeks ago and some pretty sophisticated science types are coming to believe that the universe has its own "error correction software," as if we really are living in The Matrix and when we die we go to the "real world."
I can't wrap my head around a lot of this stuff, but it's still cool.
BPK is the idea that NOTHING actually exists, that everything is simply the imagination of Big Purple Kid. You and I don't exist, we aren't even actually having this conversation. It is all simply the musing of BPK and his vivid imagination.
Moose-Knuckle
08-13-13, 15:39
This is factually incorrect. Just because we aren't sure how ancient people did it doesn't mean we don't know how to do it better.
Actually there is some truth to it. Modern sturcture engineers and the like still cannot expalin Coral Castle, much less ruins of the Inca.
Modern stone cutters, (the guys with computer controlled laser, water, and diamond cutters) cannot even touch the work that is found a Pumapunku. The foundation stones at Baalbek weigh 1500 tons each; one left in the quarry weighs 2000 tons. There really is not a way in which to position modern heavy lift cranes so that we could move these stones, much less lay them in perfect position.
A classic example is Greek Fire. No idea what the Greeks specifically used to make it. There are quite a few candidates, but no evidence to show which method as actually used. Regardless of what the actual unknown Greek recipe was, napalm is superior.
How so, this is speculation.
Ancient aliens...or fallen angels shovelling an agenda that involves deception?
L.A. Marzulli, Tom Porter, and Chris Putnam (all authors), among others, believe that the Great Deception predicted by Jesus in the Bible will be demons posing as extraterrestrials that come to earth to deceive mankind into believing that the Bible is wrong and that we were created by aliens to serve them or something like that.
I'm not sure I believe it, but I listed those authors so you can Google their work and do the research yourself.
Man I gotta get my thetans checked.
:D
L.A. Marzulli, Tom Porter, and Chris Putnam (all authors), among others, believe that the Great Deception predicted by Jesus in the Bible will be demons posing as extraterrestrials that come to earth to deceive mankind into believing that the Bible is wrong and that we were created by aliens to serve them or something like that.
What if all the original Hebrew texts were actually the work of Lucifer, to see if we'd accept a "God" that would destroy almost all life on the planet in an act of displeasure with something he created and actually worship said deity?
What if THAT is the actual test?
...
What if
Guys, listen
What if
What if we were the demons and our depiction of God is actually Satan, who is pretending to be God to trick us into corrupting God's actual children, who are an alien race, in the name of our God, which is their God's Satan and the actual Satan?
Moose-Knuckle
08-13-13, 15:41
Ancient aliens.
Well that is one theory.
montanadave
08-13-13, 15:43
So in this pantheon of the gods, what precisely is the relationship between the big purple kid and the flying spaghetti monster?
Doc Safari
08-13-13, 15:44
BPK is the idea that NOTHING actually exists, that everything is simply the imagination of Big Purple Kid. You and I don't exist, we aren't even actually having this conversation. It is all simply the musing of BPK and his vivid imagination.
Oh, well, then yes, I can certainly see that. We are all imagined in the mind of God. The only evidence I have that I actually exist is that I am self-aware. Descartes' quote "I think, therefore I am" convinced me that indeed, I was born, and that I'm not crazy to believe that I actually exist. I do not believe my self-awareness is a simulation otherwise I would be self-aware of others. For example, I do not remember anything prior to 1964 (and in actuality 1966 if you want to get technical about it). I think if I were imagined I would remember things beyond my physical existence.
No, nothing existed prior to 1964 as far as I'm concerned. I could very well be the only person who actually exists and everyting else was created for my education and entertainment.
But then some of you would undoubtedly say that this could be your experience as well.
Moose-Knuckle
08-13-13, 15:44
So in this pantheon of the gods, what precisely is the relationship between the big purple kid and the flying spaghetti monstor?
I would speculate that the BPK is going to eat the FSM. ;)
Doc Safari
08-13-13, 15:46
So in this pantheon of the gods, what precisely is the relationship between the big purple kid and the flying spaghetti monster?
Flying spaghetti monster? Please don't introduce fiction into any of this. Honestly, you're embarassing us.
:D
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-13-13, 15:47
I predict a future for both of you that involves babbling and drooling on yourselves. :D
Better than drooling on each other....
For the MO car wreck, a real angel would have shown up with power tools.... or at least enough anointing oil to grease the girl up and slip her out.... just sayin'.
I'm all for Zeus, as long as he played by Charlton Heston...
Doc Safari
08-13-13, 15:53
I'm all for Zeus, as long as he played by Charlton Heston...
Heston as Zeus? No, no, with the Moses thing that just does all kinds of weird things to me mentally. Besides, Heston is dead so it's a moot point.
No, I'm thinking Brian Blessed (think Hawkman in the Flash Gordon movie if you're too lazy to Google him. Sheesh. Gotta explain everything). :D
Actually there is some truth to it. Modern sturcture engineers and the like still cannot expalin Coral Castle, much less ruins of the Inca.
Again, there is a difference between "knowing how they did it" and "cannot accomplish it in modern times."
Modern stone cutters, (the guys with computer controlled laser, water, and diamond cutters) cannot even touch the work that is found a Pumapunku. The foundation stones at Baalbek weigh 1500 tons each; one left in the quarry weighs 2000 tons. There really is not a way in which to position modern heavy lift cranes so that we could move these stones, much less lay them in perfect position.
You need to do a little more research.
So in this pantheon of the gods, what precisely is the relationship between the big purple kid and the flying spaghetti monster?
FSM is the product of the imaginary people BPK thinks about.
Oh, well, then yes, I can certainly see that. We are all imagined in the mind of God. The only evidence I have that I actually exist is that I am self-aware. Descartes' quote "I think, therefore I am" convinced me that indeed, I was born, and that I'm not crazy to believe that I actually exist. I do not believe my self-awareness is a simulation otherwise I would be self-aware of others. For example, I do not remember anything prior to 1964 (and in actuality 1966 if you want to get technical about it). I think if I were imagined I would remember things beyond my physical existence.
No, nothing existed prior to 1964 as far as I'm concerned. I could very well be the only person who actually exists and everyting else was created for my education and entertainment.
But then some of you would undoubtedly say that this could be your experience as well.
You are not self aware because you don't actually exist. You only think you do because BPK has a complex vivid imagination. This discussion isn't even actually happening, you only think it's real because of the imagination of BPK.
Moose-Knuckle
08-13-13, 15:57
I'm all for Zeus, as long as he played by Charlton Heston...
Nah, Liam Neeson all the way . . . :D
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/liamneesom_zpsa801166f.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/liamneesom_zpsa801166f.jpg.html)
montanadave
08-13-13, 15:57
FSM is the product of the imaginary people BPK thinks about.
Try tellin' that yarn to the FSM!
Moose-Knuckle
08-13-13, 16:01
Again, there is a difference between "knowing how they did it" and "cannot accomplish it in modern times."
You need to do a little more research.
So how did they do it and for what purpose did they go to such great lengths? I will gladly do the research for myself as it is some what a hobby of mine. Please point me in the direction of your source that explains all of this. As none of my sources have ever had anything conclusive. Put a bunch of subject matter experts in the same room and all you get are different theories and or explanations. Most don't pan out.
Try tellin' that yarn to the FSM!
He thinks he exists too. But he doesn't.
Doc Safari
08-13-13, 16:09
You are not self aware because you don't actually exist.
No, I am pretty sure that I actually exist. I cannot see my face without looking in a reflective surface, meaning that I actually inhabit this body and no one else does. Further, my hands are clearly responding to my thoughts, while the appendages of other beings clearly do not respond to my thoughts. I do not believe that if I did not exist that I could be imagining all of this. Perhaps the rest of "reality" doesn't really exist because I am not looking out from other objects, for example. But since I am actually looking through the eyeballs in this body I appear to inhabit, I am convinced that I actually am. My experience is too unique compared to being able to see everyone else. In a nutshell, my experience is in the first person, but everyone else is in the third person. Yes, that's it. That's how I know I am who I am and that I am definitely not someone else.
Besides, if I weren't me I would definitely prefer to be someone richer, more handsome, and whatnot. In essence, I have to be who I am because I would not have chosen me for my imagined self.
Capiche?
No, I am pretty sure that I actually exist. I cannot see my face without looking in a reflective surface, meaning that I actually inhabit this body and no one else does. Further, my hands are clearly responding to my thoughts, while the appendages of other beings clearly do not respond to my thoughts. I do not believe that if I did not exist that I could be imagining all of this. Perhaps the rest of "reality" doesn't really exist because I am not looking out from other objects, for example. But since I am actually looking through the eyeballs in this body I appear to inhabit, I am convinced that I actually am. My experience is too unique compared to being able to see everyone else. In a nutshell, my experience is in the first person, but everyone else is in the third person. Yes, that's it. That's how I know I am who I am and that I am definitely not someone else.
Besides, if I weren't me I would definitely prefer to be someone richer, more handsome, and whatnot. In essence, I have to be who I am because I would not have chosen me for my imagined self.
Capiche?
That's exactly what someone who didn't exist but who wanted to convince me that he did exist would say.
No, I am pretty sure that I actually exist. I cannot see my face without looking in a reflective surface, meaning that I actually inhabit this body and no one else does. Further, my hands are clearly responding to my thoughts, while the appendages of other beings clearly do not respond to my thoughts. I do not believe that if I did not exist that I could be imagining all of this. Perhaps the rest of "reality" doesn't really exist because I am not looking out from other objects, for example. But since I am actually looking through the eyeballs in this body I appear to inhabit, I am convinced that I actually am. My experience is too unique compared to being able to see everyone else. In a nutshell, my experience is in the first person, but everyone else is in the third person. Yes, that's it. That's how I know I am who I am and that I am definitely not someone else.
Besides, if I weren't me I would definitely prefer to be someone richer, more handsome, and whatnot. In essence, I have to be who I am because I would not have chosen me for my imagined self.
Capiche?
You only "think" you think that because that is what BPK is thinking.
montanadave
08-13-13, 16:25
So is it tougher to prove something does actually exist or to prove something doesn't exist?
The FSM awaits your response.
So is it tougher to prove something does actually exist or to prove something doesn't exist?
The FSM awaits your response.
The burden of proof is always on the person claiming that something exists.
The burden of proof is always on the person claiming that something exists.
Sadly most people don't feel this way. They say it or believe it therefore it must be true. And I am not even talking about religion. Just society in general.
Oh and we all know Zeus was a poser.
ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-13-13, 17:38
No more M4C mushroom tasting parties.....
Doc Safari
08-13-13, 17:38
ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
Could you please not try to type with peanut butter in your mouth.
Thank you.
:D
All I really know with indisputable certainty:
(wait for it)
Chuck Norris can beat Zeus.
ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!
I am unfamiliar with the "Big Purple Kid" theory; however, I was reading some articles I Googled several weeks ago and some pretty sophisticated science types are coming to believe that the universe has its own "error correction software," as if we really are living in The Matrix and when we die we go to the "real world."
I can't wrap my head around a lot of this stuff, but it's still cool.
Read Stephen Wolframs "A New Kind of Science". It is quite the amazing and in depth read.
Dr. gates' work is incredibly interesting. "Doubly-even self-dual binary error correcting block codes" exist in nature- these and other such codes might be the very essence/structure of our reality.
Dr. gates' work into string theory and supersymmetry is quite awesome.
I've had some pretty intense and insane personal experiences and have recalled memories that I never had that were beyond my physical expreiences (That were accurate) that push me towards putting stock into the digital physics/cellular automata machine theories & Bostroms simulation hypothesis.
Anyone who has ever experienced endogenous DMT being randomly released in ones epiphysis cerebri can express a certain understanding and relate to such a universe/experience being not only possible, but probable.
For all intents and purposes, nothing is out of the realm of possibility, everything is relative to the observer- even if the observation and observer turns out to be a simulation- is it any less "real" given the relative perception of what constitutes a "reality"?
What boggles my mind when I think about/discuss these theories is IF we are living in a computer generated universe- are we even the PURPOSE of these simulations/ realities; or are we merely the by-product?
I think about the big bang and wonder if our existence is but a science experiment of some higher being trying to re-create gravity or star birth and we just happened to "pop up" into existence inside the simulation.
Would these higher beings even understand or contemplate our existence as more than what we ourselves would see as avatars/characters of a game we play in a gaming system or automatons/automata in a simulation of our own making?
Is the mind/brain acting as the quantum computer, or is it connected/existing inside of the computer itself? Perhaps both simultaneously?
Is our existence a collection of computers (Our own brains perhaps) that are simulating our own reality within a subtler reality?
Pretty heavy stuff coming from this discussion about Zeus and his possible existence gents- cool stuff...
I really love these types of discussions and being made privy to others thoughts on the subject matter.
Personally- the idea that many civilizations have come before us and evolved to attain high technological knowledge/civilization is quite possible.
The earth has been here billions of years (At least that is what is scientifically accepted right NOW)- plenty of time to erase any evidence of past civilizations and the height of technology/knowledge they may have attained.
Alternatively, those civilizations could have been destroyed by a higher intelligence- maybe the "simulation" had an error and it was scrapped/reconfigured for our "corrected" simulation with remnants leftover?
Zeus may have been a man, an alien, a god, an entirely different species from our own planet we are not aware of (In the scientifically accepted sense- obviously the greeks believed he was real and were aware of him), perhaps a human being from an alternate dimension capable of interdimensional travel, a time traveler from our future world or just a myth....
Fun thread Styer!
montanadave
08-13-13, 18:35
Anyone who has ever experienced endogenous DMT being randomly released in ones epiphysis cerebri can express a certain understanding and relate to such a universe/experience being not only possible, but probable.
Don't know about endogenous DMT, but there was some Windowpane acid kickin' around back in '75 that kicked my "epiphysis cerebri" right in the ass. :D
With all the crap that has happened to me this past couple of years, I'm kicking BPK's ass. This is bs, his a** is grass, let him
Moose-Knuckle
08-13-13, 19:30
Read Stephen Wolframs "A New Kind of Science". It is quite the amazing and in depth read.
Dr. gates' work is incredibly interesting. "Doubly-even self-dual binary error correcting block codes" exist in nature- these and other such codes might be the very essence/structure of our reality.
Dr. gates' work into string theory and supersymmetry is quite awesome.
I've had some pretty intense and insane personal experiences and have recalled memories that I never had that were beyond my physical expreiences (That were accurate) that push me towards putting stock into the digital physics/cellular automata machine theories & Bostroms simulation hypothesis.
Anyone who has ever experienced endogenous DMT being randomly released in ones epiphysis cerebri can express a certain understanding and relate to such a universe/experience being not only possible, but probable.
For all intents and purposes, nothing is out of the realm of possibility, everything is relative to the observer- even if the observation and observer turns out to be a simulation- is it any less "real" given the relative perception of what constitutes a "reality"?
What boggles my mind when I think about/discuss these theories is IF we are living in a computer generated universe- are we even the PURPOSE of these simulations/ realities; or are we merely the by-product?
I think about the big bang and wonder if our existence is but a science experiment of some higher being trying to re-create gravity or star birth and we just happened to "pop up" into existence inside the simulation.
Would these higher beings even understand or contemplate our existence as more than what we ourselves would see as avatars/characters of a game we play in a gaming system or automatons/automata in a simulation of our own making?
Is the mind/brain acting as the quantum computer, or is it connected/existing inside of the computer itself? Perhaps both simultaneously?
Is our existence a collection of computers (Our own brains perhaps) that are simulating our own reality within a subtler reality?
Pretty heavy stuff coming from this discussion about Zeus and his possible existence gents- cool stuff...
I really love these types of discussions and being made privy to others thoughts on the subject matter.
Personally- the idea that many civilizations have come before us and evolved to attain high technological knowledge/civilization is quite possible.
The earth has been here billions of years (At least that is what is scientifically accepted right NOW)- plenty of time to erase any evidence of past civilizations and the height of technology/knowledge they may have attained.
Alternatively, those civilizations could have been destroyed by a higher intelligence- maybe the "simulation" had an error and it was scrapped/reconfigured for our "corrected" simulation with remnants leftover?
Zeus may have been a man, an alien, a god, an entirely different species from our own planet we are not aware of (In the scientifically accepted sense- obviously the greeks believed he was real and were aware of him), perhaps a human being from an alternate dimension capable of interdimensional travel, a time traveler from our future world or just a myth....
Fun thread Styer!
Great post, I love this stuff as well. String theory, multiple dimensions, etc. all fascinating to say the least.
MountainRaven
08-13-13, 19:47
Didn't Start Trek explore this idea with Apollo once?
Yes.
And it was the cornerstone of Star Gate and the Marvel Universe movies (Thor, Captain America, and The Avengers, primarily).
How do I know that you all actually exist? Maybe you're all just AI responding to me.
BY YOUR COMMAND.
Better than drooling on each other....
For the MO car wreck, a real angel would have shown up with power tools.... or at least enough anointing oil to grease the girl up and slip her out.... just sayin'.
I'm all for Zeus, as long as he played by Charlton Heston...
I'm not overly fond of Thor, but I kinda liked Anthony Hopkins as Odin.
Descartes' quote "I think, therefore I am" convinced me that indeed, I was born, and that I'm not crazy to believe that I actually exist.
Ambrose Bierce did it better, IMHO: I think that I think, therefore I think that I am.
...I could very well be the only person who actually exists and everything else was created for my education and entertainment...
Then hurry up and imagine Obama out and a large supply of cheap ammo in!
I know I exist as a "fire & forget" entity because there are no other voices like mine. If the BPK were in charge, controlling everything I do think, see and experience, there would be a common voice among my fellow sentient being who are the characters in this story. That voice would be based on the beliefs and philosophies of the BPK because the Big Purple Kid's could not create or control it's creation without them. But there is not. There are too many cultural differences, too many dissenting philosophies, too many different styles of art for there to be one individual person in control of everything. Too many independent thinkers.
If the world, the universe only exists because I think it does, it would make a lot more sense to me. But in case I'm wrong and Doc is right- that he's the only one who exists, then I want him to imagine a world with no Obama and an ammo glut (and a diet & exercise program that works without having to diet or exercise)
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